No Smoking in Bars.....

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jlew24asu
jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
edited May 2007 in A Moving Train
seems that sooner or later this will be a law enacted across the country. how do people feel about his? is it this a freedom issue? health issue?

other boards have long debates about this. I tend to smoke when I drink so its kinda tough to not be able to at a bar. but I very much encourage this law for the simple fact that second hand smoke does kill. but this is also another thing the government is telling us we cant do. and thoughts?
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  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    This is neither a health issue nor a freedom issue. It is a property issue, IMO. Is a bar a public institution, or is it private?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    farfromglorified wrote:
    This is neither a health issue nor a freedom issue. It is a property issue, IMO. Is a bar a public institution, or is it private?

    true. definitely private.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    jlew24asu wrote:
    true. definitely private.

    I would agree.

    Nearly all the bars and restaurants in my town are non-smoking by choice, not by government fiat. When I smoked, this didn't bug me in the least bit. The forced ban, however, does.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    farfromglorified wrote:
    I would agree.

    Nearly all the bars and restaurants in my town are non-smoking by choice, not by government fiat.
    really? I didnt know many would voluntarily do it, especially in your neck of the woods.
    farfromglorified wrote:
    When I smoked, this didn't bug me in the least bit. The forced ban, however, does.
    forced anything does suck, but would this be one of the "greater good" laws?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    jlew24asu wrote:
    seems that sooner or later this will be a law enacted across the country. how do people feel about his? is it this a freedom issue? health issue?

    other boards have long debates about this. I tend to smoke when I drink so its kinda tough to not be able to at a bar. but I very much encourage this law for the simple fact that second hand smoke does kill. but this is also another thing the government is telling us we cant do. and thoughts?

    By the way -- has Chicago done this yet? They were trying to when I moved out and I remember it just barely failed. Have they taken another shot at it yet?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    farfromglorified wrote:
    By the way -- has Chicago done this yet? They were trying to when I moved out and I remember it just barely failed. Have they taken another shot at it yet?

    chicago did pass the law. but it is voluntary until 2008. so as of now, most bars still allow smoking. come 2008 though, none will.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    jlew24asu wrote:
    really? I didnt know many would voluntarily do it, especially in your neck of the woods.

    Yeah, it sounds wierd here in the Tabacco state. They actually just tried a state-wide ban here a month ago and it just barely failed in the state senate.
    forced anything does suck, but would this be one of the "greater good" laws?

    It all depends on what you mean by the relatively meaningless term "greater good". Certainly these laws could have positive effects on health, but they have negative effects on freedoms and property rights. How would you feel about a law that forced people to smoke? Or forced bar owners who didn't like smokers to allow smoking?
  • surfanddestroy
    surfanddestroy Posts: 2,786
    farfromglorified wrote:
    It all depends on what you mean by the relatively meaningless term "greater good". Certainly these laws could have positive effects on health, but they have negative effects on freedoms and property rights. How would you feel about a law that forced people to smoke? Or forced bar owners who didn't like smokers to allow smoking?

    What about people who are forced to inhale other peoples second hand smoke, what about their freedom rights.
    Astoria 20/04/06, Leeds 25/08/06, Prague 22/09/06, Wembley 18/06/07,
    Dusseldorf 21/06/07, Manchester 17/08/09, London 18/08/09, LA 06/10/09, LA 07/10/09.

    Ain't gonna be any middle anymore.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    farfromglorified wrote:

    Certainly these laws could have positive effects on health, but they have negative effects on freedoms and property rights.
    100% true, and the core of the debate. I guess the common ground would be to let the bar decide.

    farfromglorified wrote:
    How would you feel about a law that forced people to smoke?

    key word here is force. but here the law is forcing you to do something harmful, where the other side is forcing you to do something that protects people from very harmful smoke.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    surfanddestroy wrote:
    What about people who are forced to inhale other peoples second hand smoke, what about their freedom rights.

    they are free to leave the bar at any time.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    surfanddestroy wrote:
    What about people who are forced to inhale other peoples second hand smoke, what about their freedom rights.

    That's simple don't work or frequent establishments that allow smoking.

    The proper way to go about this is to offer business owners an insentive to voluntarily prohibit smoking in their establishments.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    we applied it last year

    overwhelming success... even smokers attest to that fact.

    and waking up the next day is much better as i dont feel my eyes hurting, my clothes dont have the stench of death and when i go in the shower i dont have to worry about the smell of smoke coming out of my hair..

    Ireland, Scotland, Wales have all implemented it and all with huge success... England will be next on July 1st and hopefully they will embrace it
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    jlew24asu wrote:
    they are free to leave the bar at any time.

    just as a smoker is free to leave the bar and have a smoke outside
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    dunkman wrote:
    we applied it last year

    overwhelming success... even smokers attest to that fact.

    and waking up the next day is much better as i dont feel my eyes hurting, my clothes dont have the stench of death and when i go in the shower i dont have to worry about the smell of smoke coming out of my hair..

    Ireland, Scotland, Wales have all implemented it and all with huge success... England will be next on July 1st and hopefully they will embrace it

    I'm a smoker and I like being able to go into a bar or resteruant and not having to smell like an ash tray when I leave, but I don't think it is right for government to force this up businesses. It should be up to the business owner to make that decision and if the government wants to reward those that do, some tyoe of tax break, that is even better.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • surfanddestroy
    surfanddestroy Posts: 2,786
    jlew24asu wrote:
    they are free to leave the bar at any time.

    Yeah true, but why should I have to. I have asthma and sometimes in a really smokey room I have difficulty breathing. I understand that smokers have a right to smoke and that is not being taken away from them, is it really that much hard work to step outside for a few mins?
    Astoria 20/04/06, Leeds 25/08/06, Prague 22/09/06, Wembley 18/06/07,
    Dusseldorf 21/06/07, Manchester 17/08/09, London 18/08/09, LA 06/10/09, LA 07/10/09.

    Ain't gonna be any middle anymore.
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    mammasan wrote:
    That's simple don't work or frequent establishments that allow smoking.

    that's discriminatory... it means people who value their health cant work in a bar.

    whats so fucking hard about walking 10 yards to a designated smoking area to have a cig... lazy fuckers!!
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    dunkman wrote:
    just as a smoker is free to leave the bar and have a smoke outside


    yea but a smoker, typically, wouldnt go out of his/her way, to prevent other people from inhaling their smoke unless forced.
  • surfanddestroy
    surfanddestroy Posts: 2,786
    dunkman wrote:
    that's discriminatory... it means people who value their health cant work in a bar.

    whats so fucking hard about walking 10 yards to a designated smoking area to have a cig... lazy fuckers!!

    Well said :D
    Astoria 20/04/06, Leeds 25/08/06, Prague 22/09/06, Wembley 18/06/07,
    Dusseldorf 21/06/07, Manchester 17/08/09, London 18/08/09, LA 06/10/09, LA 07/10/09.

    Ain't gonna be any middle anymore.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    surfanddestroy wrote:
    Yeah true, but why should I have to. I have asthma and sometimes in a really smokey room I have difficulty breathing. I understand that smokers have a right to smoke and that is not being taken away from them, is it really that much hard work to step outside for a few mins?

    It's not about smokers rights it's about business owners rights. The law doesn't prohibit me from smoking but it prohibits the business owner from running his establishment without undue government intervention.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Dustin51
    Dustin51 Posts: 222
    farfromglorified wrote:
    This is neither a health issue nor a freedom issue. It is a property issue, IMO. Is a bar a public institution, or is it private?

    Exactly! I quit smoking a few years ago but if I'm at a bar much like going to a ROCK concert I don't mind if people smoke. You go to a bar to unwind, have fun for a few hours and forget about life for a while.

    In my opinion this issue highlights some major hypocrisy in our society as well. So adults are being told what to do in a bar, yet we force feed our children soda's, chicken nuggets, pizza, candy, and all other kinds of crap that will inevitably alter their eating habits and their health for the rest of their lives in public schools around the country but as long as they don't smoke that’s ok.
    Be excellent to each other

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