How can Israel deal with the palestinians?
Comments
-
Ahnimus wrote:I'm impressed and curious. By what means did you determine that he is who you think he is?
It's him. I can't remember what his name was then. It was some convoluted name which I think began with an R. I can tell by his aggressive tone that it's him. He also mentioned back then he was gonna be joining the army and spending time in the West bank. He also mentions above that he's been on here for years. So why's he only got 15 posts? I wonder if this was the first time he was banned or if there were previous occasions. If Kat has a record of the post which got me banned when I responded to him by telling him to stick it up his arse then she can check his i.p address. I have a good ear for the tone of someone's writing. If you changed your name and came back on here I'd recognise you. It's him. Simple as that.0 -
Found him....
His name was [size=+3]Rue D'Awakening[/size]
It looks like he was banned only recently for creating the thread: 'Why Louise Arbour is a Cunt'0 -
Byrnzie wrote:Found him....
His name was [size=+3]Rue D'Awakening[/size]
It looks like he was banned only recently for creating the thread: 'Why Louise Arbour is a Cunt'
Hey I remember that nameI necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire0 -
miller8966 wrote:how can israel deal with people who's view of democracy is to shoot each other in the streets.
doesn't stop them dealing with the americans now does it?hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say0 -
catefrances wrote:doesn't stop them dealing with the americans now does it?
yes because the republicans were shooting at the dems after they lost the mid term elections.... oh wait No they didnt!America...the greatest Country in the world.0 -
Byrnzie wrote:If Israel is such a terrible and frightening place to live then why are settlements continuing to be built? Why are Jews still emigrating there? And why is Israel being touted across the world as a desirable holiday destination?
So you're a Zionist and you you've read the Talmud? Please explain what this has to do with Israels continuing crimes, includingh the ongoing illegal occupation, and it's despicable treatment of the Palestinians?
I didn't say Israel was a terrible place to live. Because of the security measures it has developed over the years one can now live there with some sense of security. In 2002, however, I can tell you (because I was there) that there was a bombing virtually once a week. Tourism was dead. I never took buses anywhere. I never went downtown to a bar or to go shopping. If I went to a restaurant or a cafe I would only go to one with an armed guard at the door, and when I walked in I would only take a table as far away from the doors and windows as I could get just in case a bomber was stopped at the door and blew himself up there. Jews continue to move to Israel because Israel is our homeland and that is of value to us. When something is of great importance to you, you are willing to take risks for it. As for the Talmud I don't know what you'd like me to explain. None of my comments about the Talmud have so far had anything to do with Israel's actions. And I won't dignify your assertion of Israeli crimes with a response, not because I don't think that Israel hasn't commited any crimes, or that the Occupation is a good thing, or that the Palestinians are not suffering, but because I know that you are unwilling or unable to see the other side of the coin, and I'm tired of give and takes where you only give and never take.0 -
dayan wrote:And I won't dignify your assertion of Israeli crimes with a response, not because I don't think that Israel hasn't commited any crimes, or that the Occupation is a good thing, or that the Palestinians are not suffering, but because I know that you are unwilling or unable to see the other side of the coin, and I'm tired of give and takes where you only give and never take.
That's fine. You obviously have personal interests to protect and a particular axe to grind.
I come from a neutral place and so i tell it like i see it.0 -
Ahnimus wrote:What exactly is a "real book". You can buy a dozen books on one topic and get a dozen different stories. I honestly think that if I read something from a source I can't trust, it might stick in my mind and I won't realize it. So I choose the best sources I can, or read multiple sources. The internet is the best way to achieve the most up-to-date, complete information. Books are mostly a waste of money.
The way the country is structured, it may not be a theocracy in the literal meaning of the term. But it's highly laced with religion. It's based on a religion. I don't have to go there to know this. I only have to stay in Canada to see the effect religion has on the very substrate of culture and politics.
the internet may give you "more up to date" info, but the internet also empowers crazies to say whatever they want. I would trust a real academic a lot more than the most rational sounding guy on the internet any day.0 -
dayan wrote:the internet may give you "more up to date" info, but the internet also empowers crazies to say whatever they want. I would trust a real academic a lot more than the most rational sounding guy on the internet any day.
I don't understand your use of the word 'you' in the above post. My knowledge of the Middle East situation doesn't derive solely from the internet. And I rarely read newspapers.0 -
Byrnzie wrote:That's fine. You obviously have personal interests to protect and a particular axe to grind.
I come from a neutral place and so i tell it like i see it.
You tell it like you choose to see it and refuse to open yourself to the possibility that it could be seen differently. It's a complex situation with a multitude of sides, but you choose to view it from only one perspective, which is laughable. From having lived in Israel I can see the conflict from an Israeli perspective, both the right wing one, and the left wing one, and the centrist one. I've gotten the Israeli Arab perspective from having talked to Israeli Arabs, and Palestinian perspectives from speaking face to face with Palestinians. You seem to have no first hand knowledge of the conflict or of anybody involved in it, and yet you presume to know the absolute and undeniable truth about what is happening because of what you see on television and read on the internet. give me a break.0 -
dayan wrote:Out of curiosity where does your understanding come from?"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!0 -
dayan wrote:And I won't dignify your assertion of Israeli crimes with a response, not because I don't think that Israel hasn't commited any crimes, or that the Occupation is a good thing, or that the Palestinians are not suffering, but because I know that you are unwilling or unable to see the other side of the coin, and I'm tired of give and takes where you only give and never take.
If and when Israel pulls back to the internationally recognised 1967 borders then I'll pay more attention to the other side of the coin if attacks against Israeli's continue. But until then I will continue to sing out the real criminal in this situation.0 -
I have no idea what that means. could you please speak in plain English and not in fortune cookie snippets?0
-
dayan wrote:I have no idea what that means. could you please speak in plain English and not in fortune cookie snippets?"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!0 -
Byrnzie wrote:If and when Israel pulls back to the internationally recognised 1967 borders then I'll pay more attention to the other side of the coin if attacks against Israeli's continue. But until then I will continue to sing out the real criminal in this situation.
The international community has recognized Israel's right to adjust to 67' border so as to make it more secure. They did this in UN resolution 242. They have also expressed that this should be done through negotiation. Israel is in the West Bank in the first place because it conquered it from Jordan in 67' after Jordan attacked Israel. Israel actually told Jordan to stay out of the war and that they would not be attacked by the IDF, but Jordan decided to bomb West Jerusalem instead. As always, the situation is more complicated then you make it out to be. congrats.0 -
angelica wrote:You're not coming across as overly perceptive in your attitude, here. I'm detecting some hostility, which considering I spoke one line seems a little disproportionate to the situation.
I didn't mean to sound hostile. I didn't understand what you wrote (still don't) and I was trying to be witty, but the tone was lost in the writing. sorry.0 -
dayan wrote:The international community has recognized Israel's right to adjust to 67' border so as to make it more secure. They did this in UN resolution 242. They have also expressed that this should be done through negotiation. Israel is in the West Bank in the first place because it conquered it from Jordan in 67' after Jordan attacked Israel. Israel actually told Jordan to stay out of the war and that they would not be attacked by the IDF, but Jordan decided to bomb West Jerusalem instead. As always, the situation is more complicated then you make it out to be. congrats.
The U.N has not placed any conditions on Israel withdrawing to the 1967 borders. Israel has simply been instructed to comply with international law and pull back to the 1967 borders. Stop trying to muddy the water by making excuses for the occupation with talk of Jordan having started it. It's a bit pathetic.
And as far as the answer to your question as to where my understanding comes from, Angelica was right to say that it simply comes down to perception. It is, unconveniently for you i expect, just as simple as that. The situation in the Middle East isn't as complicated and mysterious as people like yourself often attempt to portray it. The truth of the situation is there for all to see.0 -
dayan wrote:I didn't mean to sound hostile. I didn't understand what you wrote (still don't) and I was trying to be witty, but the tone was lost in the writing. sorry.
What I was referring to is that actual understanding goes beyond information and information sources, to being about what ability one has to process and understand that information. Therefore al people will see a similar situation from myriad angles with differing levels of perception. There's your truth, my truth and the truth. So from my perspective, pulling rank on truth seems pointless. At the same time, I don't mean to minimize firsthand experience and understanding; it's something those on the outside lack. I just see that outside views or internet fueled views can be equally valid in different ways."The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!0 -
http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20060815.htm
'And there are solutions to all these problems. They’re pretty straight forward. The solution to the core problem, i.e. Israel-Palestine, the solution’s been known for thirty years. There should be a two-state settlement on roughly the international border, maybe straighten out some lines, ‘minor and mutual adjustments’ it was called in official US terminology back in the 60s. And that’s supported by the whole world practically.
It’s supported by Iran for example. They won’t publish it here. What they like in the West is Ahmadinejad’s ravings. But he has a superior, what they call the Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khamenei. He’s his superior. Probably in a reprimand to Ahmadinejad he stated, declared officially, that Iran accepts the Arab League proposal. The Arab League proposal is for full normalization of relations with Israel when it withdraws to international borders. It goes beyond the two-state settlement, full normalization. That’s Iran. Palestinians accepted it for decades.
It came to the Security Council in January 1976. Brought by the major Arab states, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, so-called confrontation states with the support of the others. The US vetoed it.
And so it continues. The US and Israel have almost unilaterally barred a diplomatic settlement for over thirty years. This current Bush administration happens to be sort of extreme but not that different from others. Take his father, George Bush, who is regarded as anti-Israel, too harsh on Israel. Just take a look at his program, his program was worse than this. In 1988, the Palestinian National Council, governing body for the Palestinians, formally—they had tacitly accepted before—but they formally accepted a two-state settlement, formally, in terms of the international consensus.'
...Go through the rest of them, it’s about the same. In fact, if you look at the whole thirty-year record, there’s literally one month which deviates, January 2001. In 2000, the Camp David negotiations took place. Clinton realized that what the US and Israel were offering Palestinians was totally unacceptable to anybody, including Abbas. So he came out in December with what he called his parameters which were sort of vague but some of them were forthcoming. And then there were negotiations, top level negotiations, Israel, Palestine, in Taba, Egypt, in January for a week. And they were actually making progress. They were moving towards some version of the two-state settlement which more or less conformed to the long-standing consensus. And in their final press conference they said if they had a little more time they thought they could work it out, both sides. But Israel called them off, called off the negotiations…so we don’t know what would’ve happened. Then come Bush and Sharon and of course throw it out the window. But that week in Taba is actually the only break in thirty years. Of course the US propaganda system doesn’t include any of this. Take a poll in the Harvard faculty and almost nobody would’ve even heard of it.'0
Categories
- All Categories
- 148.9K Pearl Jam's Music and Activism
- 110.1K The Porch
- 274 Vitalogy
- 35K Given To Fly (live)
- 3.5K Words and Music...Communication
- 39.2K Flea Market
- 39.2K Lost Dogs
- 58.7K Not Pearl Jam's Music
- 10.6K Musicians and Gearheads
- 29.1K Other Music
- 17.8K Poetry, Prose, Music & Art
- 1.1K The Art Wall
- 56.8K Non-Pearl Jam Discussion
- 22.2K A Moving Train
- 31.7K All Encompassing Trip
- 2.9K Technical Stuff and Help