You have spent your free time starting, not just contributing to, but starting no less than 18 anti israel threads. you have participated in even more. just search your own name and look at threads started. actions speak louder than words sleeper cell. as for your challenge to meet you in London, what are you proposing? Sounds like a threat. Whats the matter, did i touch a nerve? Im only here to share thoughts and ideas. That's the point of the board. But if you'd like to share a cup of tea, let me know what mosque you belong to and i'd enjoy a chat. By the way, have you actually been to the middle east? if so, where?
wow, putting me with Osama, that's quite the stretch there buddy. I'm nothing like Osama, you deteriorate the meaning of every term you use.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
But honestly how can israel deal with a group of people whose idea of a democracy is to shoot each other?
How can Israel deal with a political party ( hamas) who does not even believe in the right of its existence?
If Israel goes back to its pre-1967 borders will the palestinians stop blowing themselves up on the streets of tel-aviv. When it is pre-conditioned into the palestinians mind to hate israel from such a young age.
Will the palestinians be willing to give up the dome of the rock? Because we all know what was there before it.
But honestly how can israel deal with a group of people whose idea of a democracy is to shoot each other?
How can Israel deal with a political party ( hamas) who does not even believe in the right of its existence?
If Israel goes back to its pre-1967 borders will the palestinians stop blowing themselves up on the streets of tel-aviv. When it is pre-conditioned into the palestinians mind to hate israel from such a young age.
Will the palestinians be willing to give up the dome of the rock? Because we all know what was there before it.
well thats not really just a palestinian issue. thats an issue for the whole arab world. the dome of the rock is in israeli hands and has not been desecrated but given the honor it deserves. one can only imagine the horror if the palestinians got their hands on the wailing wall. if the israelis were the animals youd like the world to think they were, they'd have blown the dome of the rock up years ago and built a new temple on the spot. when jersualem was in jordanian hands every temple in eastern jersualem was destroyed or desecrated. good point miller
But honestly how can israel deal with a group of people whose idea of a democracy is to shoot each other?
How can Israel deal with a political party ( hamas) who does not even believe in the right of its existence?
If Israel goes back to its pre-1967 borders will the palestinians stop blowing themselves up on the streets of tel-aviv. When it is pre-conditioned into the palestinians mind to hate israel from such a young age.
Will the palestinians be willing to give up the dome of the rock? Because we all know what was there before it.
Well first most Palestinians are not shooting themselves in the streets. I'm not an expert on the history of the Palestinians or the politics, but from what I do know they have had pretty ineffective leadership in recent history. Wether it was the leadeships fault or because the Palestinians are made up of small factions, I don't know. I think, again this is solely opinion, what we have seen and are seeing is that the Palestinians where sick and tired of the PLO leadership and it's inability to get anything done. They sought an alternative but unfortunetly that alternative was Hamas. Now, I believe, the people are seeing that the hardline way of Hamas is not the way to go. So what you get is a minority that are diehard loyalist to their party, wether the PLO or Hamas, fighting it out to keep control while the moderate majority which just wants to live their lives in peace getting the shaft as usual.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Well first most Palestinians are not shooting themselves in the streets. I'm not an expert on the history of the Palestinians or the politics, but from what I do know they have had pretty ineffective leadership in recent history. Wether it was the leadeships fault or because the Palestinians are made up of small factions, I don't know. I think, again this is solely opinion, what we have seen and are seeing is that the Palestinians where sick and tired of the PLO leadership and it's inability to get anything done. They sought an alternative but unfortunetly that alternative was Hamas. Now, I believe, the people are seeing that the hardline way of Hamas is not the way to go. So what you get is a minority that are diehard loyalist to their party, wether the PLO or Hamas, fighting it out to keep control while the moderate majority which just wants to live their lives in peace getting the shaft as usual.
I try. The way I see it Hamas only really cares about their agenda which is obviously anti-Israel. The PLO is a bit more concerned with the well being of the majority of Palestinians but lacks the testicular fortitude to reign in the extremist. This makes both parties useless because Hamashas no real desire for peace and the PLO can't control the extremeist long enough to establish peace. Once again in the end it's the average Palestinians who just want to live their life without bloodshed who suffers. Also the Israelis suffer because I'm damn sure no one deserves to be blown to shit while their going about their daily lives.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
well thats not really just a palestinian issue. thats an issue for the whole arab world. the dome of the rock is in israeli hands and has not been desecrated but given the honor it deserves. one can only imagine the horror if the palestinians got their hands on the wailing wall. if the israelis were the animals youd like the world to think they were, they'd have blown the dome of the rock up years ago and built a new temple on the spot. when jersualem was in jordanian hands every temple in eastern jersualem was destroyed or desecrated. good point miller
Is this one of your enlightened answers.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
if the israelis were the animals youd like the world to think they were, they'd have blown the dome of the rock up years ago and built a new temple on the spot.
I can't think of a time when miller ever tried to paint Israelis as being animals.
Maybe I'm wrong though, miller you anti-semite!
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I think a lot of it has to do with both sides. It's not just palestinians and it's not just Israelis.
Remember the 2nd Intifida started when Arial Sharon visited the Al-Askari mosque or whatever. Remember the extremist Israelis planning to blow up a plaestinian school. It's back and forth stuff and both sides need to admit they are wrong, kiss and make-up.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
A step I believe Israel should take is to pay the Palestinians the taxes they are due and restart any aid they where providing prior to Hamas' win. I understand their concern that Hamas is a terrorist organization but by withholding those funds they are not hurting Hamas they are hurting the Palestinian people. They need to fully back the PLO because at this point that is the best party that offers any hope of reaching peace. Finally, and I know I'm going to catch some slack for this, stop with the military incursions. I fully support israel's right to defend itself but they are only hurting themselves in the long run. Everytime the Israelies roll tanks into a town Hamas will use that to their benefit. They have to pull the rug from under Hamas' feet. Weaken Hamas by not giving them any ammunition to fuel their propaganda. This will hopefully strengthen the PLO and show the average Palestinian that Israel is doing everything it can to come to a peacefull resolution.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Do you realise Dayan, that every Palestinian and Every jew who is killed as a result of this ongoing occupation and continuing land grab, is killed as a result of people like you and your bigotry?
My bigotry? what exactly does my bigotry consist of? I've never said I hate arabs. I don't blame this entire conflict on the arabs. So I'm a bigot because I don't agree with you that Israel is the spawn of the devil and the cause of all the world's problems? I mean come on. this is the pot calling the kettle black here.
Hasn't this thread gotten so much more calm and peaceful and rational the last few posts while the "Israel is always wrong" crowd have taken a breather. I just wanted to point that out. I agree with you mammasan. In the long run alot of what Israel is doing now might end up being counterproductive, but you know the saying that all politics are local, and it would be very difficult for an Israeli leader right now to cease all military operations so long as there are still rockets being fired out of gaza and the kidnapped soldier is still in captivity. The Israeli populace will not take kindly to a leader they percieve not to be defending them in the short run.
oh, and in all seriousness, there are those on the train who believe that Israel is religiously motivated to conquer land, and in light of that the point made about Israel's exemplary stewardship of the dome of the rock deserves to be highlighted. Israel has shown tremendous respect to all religious sites under its control, which speaks to the fact that it is not the fanatic religious hate mongering state that some would make it out to be.
oh, and in all seriousness, there are those on the train who believe that Israel is religiously motivated to conquer land, and in light of that the point made about Israel's exemplary stewardship of the dome of the rock deserves to be highlighted. Israel has shown tremendous respect to all religious sites under its control, which speaks to the fact that it is not the fanatic religious hate mongering state that some would make it out to be.
Heh, neither is Iran or any of the other states that are made out that way.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Hasn't this thread gotten so much more calm and peaceful and rational the last few posts while the "Israel is always wrong" crowd have taken a breather. I just wanted to point that out. I agree with you mammasan. In the long run alot of what Israel is doing now might end up being counterproductive, but you know the saying that all politics are local, and it would be very difficult for an Israeli leader right now to cease all military operations so long as there are still rockets being fired out of gaza and the kidnapped soldier is still in captivity. The Israeli populace will not take kindly to a leader they percieve not to be defending them in the short run.
Constant negativity is not productive. I understand that any Israeli leader who departs from military tactics will look weak to the people and in short be committing career suicide, but someone has to step up to the plate. Someone has to but the long term goals of Israel before his/her career. Same goes for the palestinian leadership. The PLO never tried to reign in the fanatics for fear of loosing power. Well guess what they lost it anyway. What is need is two leaders who will put their people befor etheir careers which unfortunetly is hard to find in this day and age.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Hasn't this thread gotten so much more calm and peaceful and rational the last few posts while the "Israel is always wrong" crowd have taken a breather. I just wanted to point that out. I agree with you mammasan. In the long run alot of what Israel is doing now might end up being counterproductive, but you know the saying that all politics are local, and it would be very difficult for an Israeli leader right now to cease all military operations so long as there are still rockets being fired out of gaza and the kidnapped soldier is still in captivity. The Israeli populace will not take kindly to a leader they percieve not to be defending them in the short run.
It's only quiet because the haters on this thread appear to all be in Europe...which means they are sleeping. They'll be back.
I think a lot of it has to do with both sides. It's not just palestinians and it's not just Israelis.
Remember the 2nd Intifida started when Arial Sharon visited the Al-Askari mosque or whatever. Remember the extremist Israelis planning to blow up a plaestinian school. It's back and forth stuff and both sides need to admit they are wrong, kiss and make-up.
You missed your calling. The State Department needs a guy with that kind of insight. Yes. Kiss and make up at the Askari or whatever mosque. You got it!
That was not directed at anyone in particular. I was simply pointing out to the now silent minority that Israel is not all bad. All nations make mistakes. Israel has made plenty. Clearly I was not suggesting blowing up the Dome of the Rock if that was the question. Althought I am not sure that was a question because it did not have one of these ? at the end of it....My point was simply that if the Palestinians ever got full control of Jerusalem under it's current leadership everyone's holy sites would be in jeopardy. Hamas is, after all, a bunch of stooges for Iran who are now paying their bills since Sadaam went bye bye. (remember the good old days when Sadaam would send a check to the family of every suicide bomber).
And I do agree with you Mamasan, the Palestinians do need to get Fatah back in power. But the Israelis are not the only ones who have cut off aid to Gaza. The United States AND the EU are now witholding billions of dollars of aid to Gaza due to Hamas. And you are right, the average Palestinian and the average Israeli do want peace. Will they get it in our lifetimes? Pretty unlikely...
The really sad thing about it is, the Palestinians have really just been used by everyone in that region. The Egyptians occupied their land, the Jordanians did. Sadaam used them for his purposes. The Syrians use them for their purposes. Today it's Iran. The reality is if you ask the average Palestinian if any of their brother muslims have really ever cared about their interests, their answer would be no.
You missed your calling. The State Department needs a guy with that kind of insight. Yes. Kiss and make up at the Askari or whatever mosque. You got it!
Yea, and your due back with Mossad. Give it a break.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Yea, and your due back with Mossad. Give it a break.
I can go back to my office near the Askari or whatever mosque. Hey what time is it in London? The head of your cell should be awake soon to give you back up with the English language and shit...
I can go back to my office near the Askari or whatever mosque. Hey what time is it in London? The head of your cell should be awake soon to give you back up with the English language and shit...
I'm curious. Why would you mention my place of residence? How does that pertain to the topic, how does any of this pertain to the topic?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'm curious. Why would you mention my place of residence? How does that pertain to the topic, how does any of this pertain to the topic?
I wasn't even referring to you. Do you live in London? I was referring to your cell leader with the first initial B who threatened me and asked me to come to London. Not you. Too funny. Ok you get the last word. I have a job.....not with the Mossad. G'night Anusmus
Heh, neither is Iran or any of the other states that are made out that way.
on what basis do you make this statement? are you not aware of the clerical control of Iran and the hatred they routinely spew toward Israel. Or what about Saudi Arabia where a Jew is not even allowed to enter the country, and where you can be executed for converting to another religion from Islam.
That was not directed at anyone in particular. I was simply pointing out to the now silent minority that Israel is not all bad. All nations make mistakes. Israel has made plenty. Clearly I was not suggesting blowing up the Dome of the Rock if that was the question. Althought I am not sure that was a question because it did not have one of these ? at the end of it....My point was simply that if the Palestinians ever got full control of Jerusalem under it's current leadership everyone's holy sites would be in jeopardy. Hamas is, after all, a bunch of stooges for Iran who are now paying their bills since Sadaam went bye bye. (remember the good old days when Sadaam would send a check to the family of every suicide bomber).
And I do agree with you Mamasan, the Palestinians do need to get Fatah back in power. But the Israelis are not the only ones who have cut off aid to Gaza. The United States AND the EU are now witholding billions of dollars of aid to Gaza due to Hamas. And you are right, the average Palestinian and the average Israeli do want peace. Will they get it in our lifetimes? Pretty unlikely...
The really sad thing about it is, the Palestinians have really just been used by everyone in that region. The Egyptians occupied their land, the Jordanians did. Sadaam used them for his purposes. The Syrians use them for their purposes. Today it's Iran. The reality is if you ask the average Palestinian if any of their brother muslims have really ever cared about their interests, their answer would be no.
Finally, a sound and rational comment from you. There is hope afterall.
And just for the record, I've not once said that Israel is all bad. I understand that the average Israeli wants this bloodshed to end and there are movements within Israel struggling to bring this about. However, the leadeship, largely directed by the U.S, is seeking nothing of the sort. And it's the Israeli leadership who I have a problem with, and anti-Arab Zionists, not any average Israeli citizen, just as I have a big problem with the Bush Administration in the U.S, not 'Americans'.
Finally, a sound and rational comment from you. There is hope afterall.
And just for the record, I've not once said that Israel is all bad. I understand that the average Israeli wants this bloodshed to end and there are movements within Israel struggling to bring this about. However, the leadeship, largely directed by the U.S, is seeking nothing of the sort. And it's the Israeli leadership who I have a problem with, and anti-Arab Zionists, not any average Israeli citizen, just as I have a big problem with the Bush Administration in the U.S, not 'Americans'.
does that mean the big fight in London is off? I was so looking forward to some Blood Pudding and Ale
Comments
:eek: risible
wow, putting me with Osama, that's quite the stretch there buddy. I'm nothing like Osama, you deteriorate the meaning of every term you use.
But honestly how can israel deal with a group of people whose idea of a democracy is to shoot each other?
How can Israel deal with a political party ( hamas) who does not even believe in the right of its existence?
If Israel goes back to its pre-1967 borders will the palestinians stop blowing themselves up on the streets of tel-aviv. When it is pre-conditioned into the palestinians mind to hate israel from such a young age.
Will the palestinians be willing to give up the dome of the rock? Because we all know what was there before it.
well thats not really just a palestinian issue. thats an issue for the whole arab world. the dome of the rock is in israeli hands and has not been desecrated but given the honor it deserves. one can only imagine the horror if the palestinians got their hands on the wailing wall. if the israelis were the animals youd like the world to think they were, they'd have blown the dome of the rock up years ago and built a new temple on the spot. when jersualem was in jordanian hands every temple in eastern jersualem was destroyed or desecrated. good point miller
Well first most Palestinians are not shooting themselves in the streets. I'm not an expert on the history of the Palestinians or the politics, but from what I do know they have had pretty ineffective leadership in recent history. Wether it was the leadeships fault or because the Palestinians are made up of small factions, I don't know. I think, again this is solely opinion, what we have seen and are seeing is that the Palestinians where sick and tired of the PLO leadership and it's inability to get anything done. They sought an alternative but unfortunetly that alternative was Hamas. Now, I believe, the people are seeing that the hardline way of Hamas is not the way to go. So what you get is a minority that are diehard loyalist to their party, wether the PLO or Hamas, fighting it out to keep control while the moderate majority which just wants to live their lives in peace getting the shaft as usual.
not a bad perspective right there.
What's in it for you, fella?
I try. The way I see it Hamas only really cares about their agenda which is obviously anti-Israel. The PLO is a bit more concerned with the well being of the majority of Palestinians but lacks the testicular fortitude to reign in the extremist. This makes both parties useless because Hamashas no real desire for peace and the PLO can't control the extremeist long enough to establish peace. Once again in the end it's the average Palestinians who just want to live their life without bloodshed who suffers. Also the Israelis suffer because I'm damn sure no one deserves to be blown to shit while their going about their daily lives.
Is this one of your enlightened answers.
I can't think of a time when miller ever tried to paint Israelis as being animals.
Maybe I'm wrong though, miller you anti-semite!
Remember the 2nd Intifida started when Arial Sharon visited the Al-Askari mosque or whatever. Remember the extremist Israelis planning to blow up a plaestinian school. It's back and forth stuff and both sides need to admit they are wrong, kiss and make-up.
lol yea i dont think ive ever done that.
My bigotry? what exactly does my bigotry consist of? I've never said I hate arabs. I don't blame this entire conflict on the arabs. So I'm a bigot because I don't agree with you that Israel is the spawn of the devil and the cause of all the world's problems? I mean come on. this is the pot calling the kettle black here.
Heh, neither is Iran or any of the other states that are made out that way.
Constant negativity is not productive. I understand that any Israeli leader who departs from military tactics will look weak to the people and in short be committing career suicide, but someone has to step up to the plate. Someone has to but the long term goals of Israel before his/her career. Same goes for the palestinian leadership. The PLO never tried to reign in the fanatics for fear of loosing power. Well guess what they lost it anyway. What is need is two leaders who will put their people befor etheir careers which unfortunetly is hard to find in this day and age.
That was not directed at anyone in particular. I was simply pointing out to the now silent minority that Israel is not all bad. All nations make mistakes. Israel has made plenty. Clearly I was not suggesting blowing up the Dome of the Rock if that was the question. Althought I am not sure that was a question because it did not have one of these ? at the end of it....My point was simply that if the Palestinians ever got full control of Jerusalem under it's current leadership everyone's holy sites would be in jeopardy. Hamas is, after all, a bunch of stooges for Iran who are now paying their bills since Sadaam went bye bye. (remember the good old days when Sadaam would send a check to the family of every suicide bomber).
And I do agree with you Mamasan, the Palestinians do need to get Fatah back in power. But the Israelis are not the only ones who have cut off aid to Gaza. The United States AND the EU are now witholding billions of dollars of aid to Gaza due to Hamas. And you are right, the average Palestinian and the average Israeli do want peace. Will they get it in our lifetimes? Pretty unlikely...
The really sad thing about it is, the Palestinians have really just been used by everyone in that region. The Egyptians occupied their land, the Jordanians did. Sadaam used them for his purposes. The Syrians use them for their purposes. Today it's Iran. The reality is if you ask the average Palestinian if any of their brother muslims have really ever cared about their interests, their answer would be no.
Yea, and your due back with Mossad. Give it a break.
I'm curious. Why would you mention my place of residence? How does that pertain to the topic, how does any of this pertain to the topic?
on what basis do you make this statement? are you not aware of the clerical control of Iran and the hatred they routinely spew toward Israel. Or what about Saudi Arabia where a Jew is not even allowed to enter the country, and where you can be executed for converting to another religion from Islam.
Finally, a sound and rational comment from you. There is hope afterall.
And just for the record, I've not once said that Israel is all bad. I understand that the average Israeli wants this bloodshed to end and there are movements within Israel struggling to bring this about. However, the leadeship, largely directed by the U.S, is seeking nothing of the sort. And it's the Israeli leadership who I have a problem with, and anti-Arab Zionists, not any average Israeli citizen, just as I have a big problem with the Bush Administration in the U.S, not 'Americans'.
I don't drink ale. I'm a Kronenbourg man myself. I had too many of them last night.