What is God?

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Comments

  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I would actually be Buddhist, but I don't believe in structured beliefs.

    I don't want to commit to something I may have to defend. I prefer to have plasticity in my beliefs.
    It's the same for me. (except for the Buddhist part) Not allowing others to define my belief system for me has been a very good thing.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    It's the same for me. (except for the Buddhist part) Not allowing others to define my belief system for me has been a very good thing.

    I don't particularily share the same scientific views as Niels Bohr, but I love this quote.

    "How wonderful that we have met with a paradox. Now we have some hope of making progress."
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • God for me is silence....... you don't hear it but you know it. God is empty space, you don't see it, but for the things that fill it, you know it. God is the nothingness that everything needs to exist within.
  • God is the first mover
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • dkst0426
    dkst0426 Posts: 523
    God is.

    Yeah, it's that simple for those of us who believe.
  • sponger
    sponger Posts: 3,159
    it's dog spelled backwards.
  • dkst0426
    dkst0426 Posts: 523
    sponger wrote:
    it's dog spelled backwards.
    Already used.
  • God is the main character of this science-fiction book called the bible. The book which a lot of people use to give a sense to the things that fears us (like death, life after death ?), and the ideas in this book are often a reason to start or explain a war.
    For me God should be tolerance, humanism, socialism, Love
    Beavis : Is this Pearl Jam?
    Butt-head: This guy makes faces like Eddie Vedder.
    Beavis: No, Eddie Vedder makes faces like this guy.
    Butt-head: I heard these guys, like, came first and Pearl Jam ripped them off.
    Beavis: No, Pearl Jam came first.
    Butt-head: Well, they both suck.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    angelica wrote:
    Byrnzie, I would love to hear how you conceptualize "God". Or do you?

    O.k. Well, you may not be surprised to know that my idea of what 'god' is doesn't resemble the Christian notion. Although this could be debated.
    Simply put, I understand 'God' to be what the celts and Anglo-saxon shamans thought of as the 'web of wyrd'. Wyrd meaning mysterious, and, yes, 'weird'. Like all shamans the world over they understood there to be an underlying oneness which is interconnected by something resembling an energy field containing interlinking fibres.
    This energy informs everything and connects everything, and it is what can also be described as spirit, or 'god'.
    Quantum physicists arrived at the same conclusion when they discovered that beneath (or independent of) human perception of individual particles, these particles behave in a wave pattern. When perceived by us they take the form of particles. So that the world of separateness and individuality which we take for granted is in fact a cognitive construction.
    The philosophers also arrived at the same conclusion. Kant understood that there is an underlying reality which is beyond the reach of our human cognitive make-up. The world that we know is there as a result of a combination of our cognition and the known, or phenomena, and of what he calls the noumena - or the unknown.
    Schopenhauer then took this a step further with his notion of 'the will' which is the driving force of the world. The will he identified as the noumena infusing and directing all life with the desire to live.
    Schopenhauer was one of the first westerners to introduce Eastern philosophy and mysticism to the West and he understood that these writings supported his own philosophical conclusions. His philosophy resembles closely that of Buddhism.
    So that's it. I believe 'God' to be this 'Will', or 'Web of wyrd', or 'spirit', which, contrary to Kant but along with Schopenhauer, I believe can be accessed by mystics, and shamans e.t.c.
    I certainly don't believe that 'God' resembles anything human, or that humans can experience 'God' through the medium of rational thought, or prayer, or through the medium of any church or priest. Someone above mentioned L.S.D. That'll give you a glimpse, but then so will ayahuasca, peyote, mescaline, iboga, trance, and meditation.

    As Daniel Pinchbeck says in the intro to his book 'Breaking open the head':

    Among shamanic tribal cultures, plants that induce visions are the center of spiritual life and tradition. Tribes in Africa, Siberia, South and North America, and elsewhere believe that these plants are sentient beings, supernatural emissaries. They ascribe their music and medicine, their cosmology and extensive botanical knowledge to the visions given to them in psychedelic trance. For tribes in Africa, Siberia, North and South America, and many other regions, rejection of the visionary knowledge offered by the botanical world would be a form of insanity.


    Many psychedelics are closely related to serotonin or other common neurotransmitters. Serotonin is believed to perform many functions. It helps to regulate sensory information - whether sense data trickles, flows, pours, or floods into the brain. Psilocybin, mescaline, and LSD are also alkaloids that resemble serotonin. The superpotent hallucinogen DMT ("NN - dimethyltryptamine") is a very close cousin to serotonin - the same molecular structure with the difference of two atoms. Serotonin Selective Re-uptake Inhibitors (SSRIs), such as the anti-depressants Prozac and Zoloft, limit mood swings by modulating the release of serotonin. Psychedelics bond to many of the same receptor sites as serotonin and similar neurotransmitters. That is the principle cause of their activity.


    Think of the brain (as distinct from the mind) as a kind of radio. With "normative" levels of serotonin, the brain is tuned to "consensual reality" - something like the local Pop or Talk Radio station. By substituting psilocybin, Ibogaine, dimethyltryptamine, or some other psychedelic compound for serotonin and other neurotransmitters, you change the station and suddenly you begin to pick up the sensorial equivalent of avant-garde jazz, Tibetan chants, or another channel resonating with new and astonishing information. Yet your mind, the perceiving core of the self, remains more or less unaffected. In that sense, psychedelics - unlike alcohol or heroin - are not even intoxicating in an ordinary sense of the word.


    Are psychedelics "good" or "evil"? In our culture these chemicals have been demonized, but like all profound and powerful tools, they are ambiguous. A computer can be an awesome educational instrument, or you can use it to play Doom fifteen hours a day. Psychedelics are different from other tools in one crucial respect: Because they work in the subjective domain of the individual's consciousness, the attitude one has before taking them shapes the effect they will have to an extraordinary degree. For this reason, laboratory conditions and the typical quantifying scientific method seem to be unsuitable for studying them.


    Rock on Brothers and sisters! :D
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    So, Byrnzie you don't believe in free-will? But rather the will of the universe?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Ahnimus wrote:
    So, Byrnzie you don't believe in free-will? But rather the will of the universe?

    Jeeez! You and free will! :rolleyes:

    I've not really given the subject too much thought because I don't think it really matters. But seeing as you're asking I'd say that I believe in a combination of the above.
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Byrnzie wrote:
    O.k. Well, you may not be surprised to know that my idea of what 'god' is doesn't resemble the Christian notion. Although this could be debated.
    Simply put, I understand 'God' to be what the celts and Anglo-saxon shamans thought of as the 'web of wyrd'. Wyrd meaning mysterious, and, yes, 'weird'. Like all shamans the world over they understood there to be an underlying oneness which is interconnected by something resembling an energy field containing interlinking fibres.
    This energy informs everything and connects everything, and it is what can also be described as spirit, or 'god'.
    Quantum physicists arrived at the same conclusion when they discovered that beneath (or independent of) human perception of individual particles, these particles behave in a wave pattern. When perceived by us they take the form of particles. So that the world of separateness and individuality which we take for granted is in fact a cognitive construction.
    The philosophers also arrived at the same conclusion. Kant understood that there is an underlying reality which is beyond the reach of our human cognitive make-up. The world that we know is there as a result of a combination of our cognition and the known, or phenomena, and of what he calls the noumena - or the unknown.
    Schopenhauer then took this a step further with his notion of 'the will' which is the driving force of the world. The will he identified as the noumena infusing and directing all life with the desire to live.
    Schopenhauer was one of the first westerners to introduce Eastern philosophy and mysticism to the West and he understood that these writings supported his own philosophical conclusions. His philosophy resembles closely that of Buddhism.
    So that's it. I believe 'God' to be this 'Will', or 'Web of wyrd', or 'spirit', which, contrary to Kant but along with Schopenhauer, I believe can be accessed by mystics, and shamans e.t.c.
    I certainly don't believe that 'God' resembles anything human, or that humans can experience 'God' through the medium of rational thought, or prayer, or through the medium of any church or priest. Someone above mentioned L.S.D. That'll give you a glimpse, but then so will ayahuasca, peyote, mescaline, iboga, trance, and meditation.

    Rock on Brothers and sisters! :D



    oooohhhhh Byrnzie so smart... :)

    p.s. do you dance naked around fires to the strains of Carmina Burana (a.k.a. Old SPice theme tune :D ) :cool:
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Jeeez! You and free will! :rolleyes:

    I've not really given the subject too much thought because I don't think it really matters. But seeing as you're asking I'd say that I believe in a combination of the above.

    Really, so that's different than Schopenhauer and Buddhism.

    I personally don't see how QM implies any kind of uncertainty or will. But it's a fascinating theory. :)
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Really, so that's different than Schopenhauer and Buddhism.

    I personally don't see how QM implies any kind of uncertainty or will. But it's a fascinating theory. :)


    Free Will is even in your signature Ahnimus... I bet your favourite film of all time is "Free Willy" (or known in France as Penis du Gratis) ;)
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    oooohhhhh Byrnzie so smart... :)

    p.s. do you dance naked around fires to the strains of Carmina Burana (a.k.a. Old SPice theme tune :D ) :cool:

    :D

    Nooo! I never likd old spice! Along with my darts throwing athlete doppleganger I prefer to smear lager under my armpits and dance round the handbags of random Essex hussies at the local discotheque. :cool:
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Free Will is even in your signature Ahnimus... I bet your favourite film of all time is "Free Willy" (or known in France as Penis du Gratis) ;)

    :D:D
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Really, so that's different than Schopenhauer and Buddhism.

    I'll come back to you on this point next week. I'll do some brushing up on my Schopenhauer after the x-mas festivities.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Byrnzie wrote:
    I'll come back to you on this point next week. I'll do some brushing up on my Schopenhauer after the x-mas festivities.

    "[A]s little as a ball on a billiard table can move before receiving an impact, so little can a man get up from his chair before being drawn or driven by a motive. But then his getting up is as necessary and inevitable as the rolling of a ball after the impact. And to expect that anyone will do something to which absolutely no interest impels them is the same as to expect that a piece of wood shall move toward me without being pulled by a string."
    - Arthur Schopenhauer
    On the Freedom of the Will (1839)
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    Byrnzie wrote:
    O.k. Well, you may not be surprised to know that my idea of what 'god' is doesn't resemble the Christian notion. Although this could be debated.
    Simply put, I understand 'God' to be what the celts and Anglo-saxon shamans thought of as the 'web of wyrd'. Wyrd meaning mysterious, and, yes, 'weird'. Like all shamans the world over they understood there to be an underlying oneness which is interconnected by something resembling an energy field containing interlinking fibres.
    This energy informs everything and connects everything, and it is what can also be described as spirit, or 'god'.
    Quantum physicists arrived at the same conclusion when they discovered that beneath (or independent of) human perception of individual particles, these particles behave in a wave pattern. When perceived by us they take the form of particles. So that the world of separateness and individuality which we take for granted is in fact a cognitive construction.
    The philosophers also arrived at the same conclusion. Kant understood that there is an underlying reality which is beyond the reach of our human cognitive make-up. The world that we know is there as a result of a combination of our cognition and the known, or phenomena, and of what he calls the noumena - or the unknown.
    Schopenhauer then took this a step further with his notion of 'the will' which is the driving force of the world. The will he identified as the noumena infusing and directing all life with the desire to live.
    Schopenhauer was one of the first westerners to introduce Eastern philosophy and mysticism to the West and he understood that these writings supported his own philosophical conclusions. His philosophy resembles closely that of Buddhism.
    So that's it. I believe 'God' to be this 'Will', or 'Web of wyrd', or 'spirit', which, contrary to Kant but along with Schopenhauer, I believe can be accessed by mystics, and shamans e.t.c.
    I certainly don't believe that 'God' resembles anything human, or that humans can experience 'God' through the medium of rational thought, or prayer, or through the medium of any church or priest.
    Thanks for responding regarding your conception of God.

    I personally agree with much of what you are saying here. I like the way you have woven it all together. I'm wondering, though, about you saying you don't believe humans can experience God through prayer, or through any church or priest. You said: "This energy informs everything and connects everything, and it is what can also be described as spirit, or 'god'." I'm with you 100% on this. What I wonder about is that you understand this energy informs us, and underlies us, but then at the same time, you perceive us as being out of touch with it. Or at least it seems you feel we are not able to connect through prayer or inspiration by others. The way I see it is that we don't connect when we don't think we can connect. Since it informs and underlies us, I see we already are connected and immersed with this energy. I see that we are particularly connected to this Source through emotion and inspiration and therefore prayer or the inspiration of others can awaken channels we are less open to. Do you disagree with this?

    Someone above mentioned L.S.D. That'll give you a glimpse, but then so will ayahuasca, peyote, mescaline, iboga, trance, and meditation.

    As Daniel Pinchbeck says in the intro to his book 'Breaking open the head':

    Among shamanic tribal cultures, plants that induce visions are the center of spiritual life and tradition. Tribes in Africa, Siberia, South and North America, and elsewhere believe that these plants are sentient beings, supernatural emissaries. They ascribe their music and medicine, their cosmology and extensive botanical knowledge to the visions given to them in psychedelic trance. For tribes in Africa, Siberia, North and South America, and many other regions, rejection of the visionary knowledge offered by the botanical world would be a form of insanity.


    Many psychedelics are closely related to serotonin or other common neurotransmitters. Serotonin is believed to perform many functions. It helps to regulate sensory information - whether sense data trickles, flows, pours, or floods into the brain. Psilocybin, mescaline, and LSD are also alkaloids that resemble serotonin. The superpotent hallucinogen DMT ("NN - dimethyltryptamine") is a very close cousin to serotonin - the same molecular structure with the difference of two atoms. Serotonin Selective Re-uptake Inhibitors (SSRIs), such as the anti-depressants Prozac and Zoloft, limit mood swings by modulating the release of serotonin. Psychedelics bond to many of the same receptor sites as serotonin and similar neurotransmitters. That is the principle cause of their activity.


    Think of the brain (as distinct from the mind) as a kind of radio. With "normative" levels of serotonin, the brain is tuned to "consensual reality" - something like the local Pop or Talk Radio station. By substituting psilocybin, Ibogaine, dimethyltryptamine, or some other psychedelic compound for serotonin and other neurotransmitters, you change the station and suddenly you begin to pick up the sensorial equivalent of avant-garde jazz, Tibetan chants, or another channel resonating with new and astonishing information. Yet your mind, the perceiving core of the self, remains more or less unaffected. In that sense, psychedelics - unlike alcohol or heroin - are not even intoxicating in an ordinary sense of the word.


    Are psychedelics "good" or "evil"? In our culture these chemicals have been demonized, but like all profound and powerful tools, they are ambiguous. A computer can be an awesome educational instrument, or you can use it to play Doom fifteen hours a day. Psychedelics are different from other tools in one crucial respect: Because they work in the subjective domain of the individual's consciousness, the attitude one has before taking them shapes the effect they will have to an extraordinary degree. For this reason, laboratory conditions and the typical quantifying scientific method seem to be unsuitable for studying them.


    Rock on Brothers and sisters! :D
    I'm guessing you are familiar with Stanislov Grof and his extensive experiments with LSD. And his mind-boggling understandings of non-ordinary states of consciousness. And how he eventually found non-pharmacological means of accessing the same states?
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    angelica wrote:
    What I wonder about is that you understand this energy informs us, and underlies us, but then at the same time, you perceive us as being out of touch with it. Or at least it seems you feel we are not able to connect through prayer or inspiration by others.

    I think that connecting with this underlying reality requires a profound effort of concentration (or some damn good drugs! DMT for instance! :D ). Although this energy is what infuses us, we're a bit like the man in Plato's cave with his back to the world looking at shadows on the cave wall and believing that what he's seeing is 'reality'. There are different ways of accessing higher states of consciousness and visionary states of mind, although I'm not sure that any modern Christians have any idea about this. Gnostic christians, on the other hand, believed in, and practised ways of experiencing 'God' firsthand through the medium of trance and meditation.