Authority

Pj_Gurl wrote:

It seemed to me like a huge chunk of the rest of the world were rejoycing when Obama won through though. Do you agree with this?

I was talking more about the past, not really this election.

I still think there are a bunch of people worldwide who admire the good things we have done but absolutely hate the bad things. I mean hell, we live in a democracy right? We choose our Government, so we are ultimately responsible for the fucked up decisions our government makes. We can't have it both ways, we can't get on our soapboxes and go on about the virtues of our democracy without accepting responsibility.

Yeah, that's basically what I was trying to imply. We can blame the Bush administration, but at the end of the day, when the leaders end up the same and we don't truly cause any change, then what are people supposed to think of us?

In other words, we try to tell the rest of the world to excuse the last 8 years because Bush was horrible and we all disliked him. but if for the next 4-8 years, not much difference happens, what do we say then? When is it time to finally accept responsibility?

That's why the people who voted for Bush, and are now the ones having so much to say here about Obama, need to have a good look at themselves. They are responsible for the last 8 years. Not me. Them. I voted Obama, and i am (along with anyone else who voted him), responsible for allowing him the power to make any future decisions.

Which is why a representative democracy actually has many flaws.

So yeah Outlaw, that's not why they think we are stupid fucks. They think we are stupid fucks because of our foregin policies. Our foreign policy is based completely on national self-interest, not international cooperation. They can see through our speeches of how we help the world. Sure we do, but we also don't mind helping ourselves to the resources and well being of the world.

That's basically what I was saying. The thing is though: the rest of the world tries not to judge Americans based on Bush's speeches. Bush's speeches actually aren't our speeches. However, if we reach a point where all our leaders are virtually the same (ie. self-serving, etc), then they reach the conclusion that we're either stupid because we are constantly deceived by leaders, or actually inherently evil for voting them in.

They think we are stupid fucks because we're just five percent of the world's population, yet we consume 23% of its energy and in the past we have not seemed to be to bothered by any of these statistics. They think we are stupid fucks because we insist on giving total support for Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. Disgusting. We should be more outraged than we are. I see more anger here for a stupid freaking website like eharmony not having provision for gays to find their partners, or more outrage for fat fucks flying on airplanes, not having to pay for two seats, than i do for what what is happening to the palestinian people.

I am fiercely loyal to my country, but i am not stupid. We've got a long way to go to dig ourselves out of this hole we are in and to regain the respect of the rest of the world again.
Have not posted in a while, excuse the big post. Hard to say what i wanted to in a few words.

You do know that I basically agree with everything you said in this post, right?

Byrnzie wrote:

People pay taxes because they have no choice but to pay taxes. I lived and worked in England and paid taxes, but believe it or not, I was not for the war. I understand that some of the tax money that was deducted from my salary every month went towards paying for bullets and bombs to kill women and children in the Middle East, but I didn't support it.

I've always thought it be a great idea to put the Statue of Liberty on Ebay to help cover the cost of the war. Or to melt it down for armor and ammo.

unifiedscene wrote:

That's all I was getting at. I don't get much government interference in my daily life, and the day-to-day living probably is pretty much the same in either country. But I read the freer lives thing to include things like political expression, access to information, etc. It seems that's not what you meant by it, so let's make peace and hit those brothels!

Maybe you don't get government interference, but I, and several other people I know, do. We don't live free lives here, and we don't have the freedom of things like political expression or access to information.

_outlaw wrote:

Maybe you don't get government interference, but I, and several other people I know, do. We don't live free lives here, and we don't have the freedom of things like political expression or access to information.

Really? How so? What information have you sought and been denied? What expressions have you been prevented from making?

_outlaw wrote:

You can actually be persecuted in the U.S. for accessing certain "websites"... that would be considered "evidence." You can be persecuted for saying things contrary to what the government wants you to say. I've seen it happen before. Just because you haven't doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

No, just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But just because you claim you know a guy who went to a website and was "persecuted" doesn't mean that it does exist. In fact, that sentence doesn't even make sense. Evidence of what? What websites were accessed and what persecution followed? What did you or someone you know say that the government didn't want you to say and what persecution followed?

unifiedscene wrote:

No, just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But just because you claim you know a guy who went to a website and was "persecuted" doesn't mean that it does exist. In fact, that sentence doesn't even make sense. Evidence of what? What websites were accessed and what persecution followed? What did you or someone you know say that the government didn't want you to say and what persecution followed?

I actually don't care enough to convince a random internet poster about this, forget it.

unifiedscene wrote:

No, just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But just because you claim you know a guy who went to a website and was "persecuted" doesn't mean that it does exist. In fact, that sentence doesn't even make sense. Evidence of what? What websites were accessed and what persecution followed? What did you or someone you know say that the government didn't want you to say and what persecution followed?

Are you kidding?? Let's take the example of Ambassador Joe Wilson. He wrote an OP ED piece for the NY Times arguing that the White House was being dishonest with the information it was passing along to the public, that there was a covert distribution system in place for moving Yellow Cake out of Africa
that would be a great threat to the U.S. For his patriotism, Joe Wilson and his wife, Valerie Plame, were hit pretty effin hard by Cheney and Jr.
So there you have it, mass media and persecution, all in tidy little story for you.

Sweet Emotion wrote:

Are you kidding?? Let's take the example of Ambassador Joe Wilson. He wrote an OP ED piece for the NY Times arguing that the White House was being dishonest with the information it was passing along to the public, that there was a covert distribution system in place for moving Yellow Cake out of Africa
that would be a great threat to the U.S. For his patriotism, Joe Wilson and his wife, Valerie Plame, were hit pretty effin hard by Cheney and Jr.
So there you have it, mass media and persecution, all in tidy little story for you.

Hit how? Last I checked, none of them were executed or jailed. In fact, some of the people responsible for leaking Plame's covert status were actually jailed.