stupid americans

Byrnzie · January 2007

fanch75 wrote:

Here is a great example of a stupid american

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCWlZbm2Nuw

That is funny!

decides2dream · January 2007

baraka wrote:

You can be proud of your culture and still respect, appreciate, and enjoy other cultures.

exactly.

as per corporatewhore's comments: besides, for a great # of americans *our people* had nothing to do with the start/founding of this country. i am a born and bred american, however...am only a first generation as my father was born in sicily, and his family came to this country in 1921. my mothers family have been here longer, but still not a far-reaching history in this country but in ireland and italy. so unless you are one of the folks who have direct lineage to early settlers/americans......not much to take *pride* in there, as you and your ancestors had nothing to do with it anyway. i AM happy to have been born here, to live here.....but i am also more than happy to share it with all else who wants to be here too. any *pride* would lie soley in progress, and saldy within the years i've been able to vote.....not too many great things to be *proud* of, but sure...i try.

CorporateWhore · January 2007

decides2dream wrote:

exactly.

as per corporatewhore's comments: besides, for a great # of americans *our people* had nothing to do with the start/founding of this country. i am a born and bred american, however...am only a first generation as my father was born in sicily, and his family came to this country in 1921. my mothers family have been here longer, but still not a far-reaching history in this country but in ireland and italy. so unless you are one of the folks who have direct lineage to early settlers/americans......not much to take *pride* in there, as you and your ancestors had nothing to do with it anyway. i AM happy to have been born here, to live here.....but i am also more than happy to share it with all else who wants to be here too. any *pride* would lie soley in progress, and saldy within the years i've been able to vote.....not too many great things to be *proud* of, but sure...i try.

Clearly you have no identity except that which public school teachers have given you.

I was taught in public schools to think that Americans who weren't direct descendents of the settlers weren't really related to the forefathers of this country at all. We supposedly have no identity because we are an amalgamation of many ethnicities from Europe.

That's bullshit.

It was European ideas that built America and made it what it is. We are a race. People came to America and became a new race. Italians, Britons, Irishmen, Dutch, and everyone who came here was no longer the race that they were. It's the melting pot and it influenced everything about them. A new culture emerged out of America that was different than that of Europe, and it is something to be proud of whether you are a new citizen or your ancestors came here in Jamestown. The simple fact is, no other group from any other continent could have made this country what it is today.

I've grown up in America my entire life and become influenced by it. If I went to Europe, they would notice that I'm different by the way I look, the way I carry myself, what I choose to talk about, how I think, and what beliefs I have. That is what I am proud of: being bred like an American. Obviously you aren't proud of that.

Europeans colonized America and made it was it is. Their actions made this country great. I am of European descent; therefore, I can be proud of what my forefathers did.

decides2dream · January 2007

CorporateWhore wrote:

Clearly you have no identity except that which public school teachers have given you.

I was taught in public schools to think that Americans who weren't direct descendents of the settlers weren't really related to the forefathers of this country at all. We supposedly have no identity because we are an amalgamation of many ethnicities from Europe.

That's bullshit.

It was European ideas that built America and made it what it is. We are a race. People came to America and became a new race. Italians, Britons, Irishmen, Dutch, and everyone who came here was no longer the race that they were. It's the melting pot and it influenced everything about them. A new culture emerged out of America that was different than that of Europe, and it is something to be proud of whether you are a new citizen or your ancestors came here in Jamestown. The simple fact is, no other group from any other continent could have made this country what it is today.

I've grown up in America my entire life and become influenced by it. If I went to Europe, they would notice that I'm different by the way I look, the way I carry myself, what I choose to talk about, how I think, and what beliefs I have. That is what I am proud of: being bred like an American. Obviously you aren't proud of that because.

Europeans colonized America and made it was it is. Their actions made this country great. I am of European descent; therefore, I can be proud of what my forefathers did.

whateva.
and i went to an all girls catholic school.

i also have a great sense of identity....being an american yes...but also italian and irish, and it ALL comes from my family and none of it from school.

i understand what you're saying and i certainly feel american, but i don't consider them *my* forefathers.....that's all.....i feel no real connection/pride for their actions at all, just glad they started the country as they did and wish we did more to encourage and keep intact the personal freedoms and seperation of church and state as was meant to be, but that's another topic. anyway, i just don't see that i have anymore claim to being apart of this country as anyone else who is a citizen, or whould like to become a citizen....that's all. agree, disagree, really doesn't make much difference to me, i personally find it rather amusing when people make the *my people* comments...when for most of us, we have no direct relation to any of em.

and yes, you should go to europe...as many countries as you can, as many times as you can. i love it! i travel as much as i possibly can, studied abroad 2x, it's a great experience! in fact, i think we all should travel and see as much of this planet as we can, as many people and cultures, natural environments, etc....inside and outside our national borders.....it's a great perspective. and i am still not *proud of* being bred as an american....if i am proud of anything, i am proud of my own accomplishments....and of my immigrant father, his participation in WW2, my parents starting out on their own, etc. i don't have a true pride in just *being* a part of america, but yes i am glad to be a part of america. differing perspectives, that's all.

erickvazdel · January 2007

I have been in the United States and I know that not everybody is like this.

But Im sorry, thats the concept that the rest of the world have of america.

Shapur · January 2007

CorporateWhore wrote:

I've grown up in America my entire life and become influenced by it. If I went to Europe, they would notice that I'm different by the way I look, the way I carry myself, what I choose to talk about, how I think, and what beliefs I have. That is what I am proud of: being bred like an American. Obviously you aren't proud of that.

Europeans colonized America and made it was it is. Their actions made this country great. I am of European descent; therefore, I can be proud of what my forefathers did.

Pointless nonsense.

That's like saying I'm proud my ancestors moved out of the great plains of Africa.

Being proud of actions of others hundreds, thousands, or hundreds of thousands of years ago is indicative of your political consciousness as it is at present. Let me guess, you are a "patriot"? You love "your" country? You love "your" president?

That's the crap they fed you in public school.

It's time to move on from that nonsense. You have no immediate connection to the people who built America. Chances are that you would've been hated if you lived in that era due to the views you have today, but most importantly, they wouldn't have cared about you in any way, shape or form.

You know what, I wouldn't have cared if you said you were proud of something good. Like for example your "forefathers" striking, or demonstrating an injustice, or doing other progressive things, but proud of "building America" reeks of reactionary thought.

CorporateWhore · January 2007

Shapur wrote:

You know what, I wouldn't have cared if you said you were proud of something good. Like for example your "forefathers" striking, or demonstrating an injustice, or doing other progressive things, but proud of "building America" reeks of reactionary thought.

"Building America" IS something good. By building America, the colonists demonstrated the injustice of absolute monarchy, Shapur. They started the first constitutional government in the world, which third world countries are just now learning to imitate.

No, I'm absolutely proud of the men and ideas that built this country. If that's reactionary, well...it's not. But, if it were, well...well no, that's retarded.

Shapur · January 2007

CorporateWhore wrote:

"Building America" IS something good. By building America, the colonists demonstrated the injustice of absolute monarchy, Shapur. They started the first constitutional government in the world, which third world countries are just now learning to imitate.

No, I'm absolutely proud of the men and ideas that built this country. If that's reactionary, well...it's not. But, if it were, well...well no, that's retarded.

I see you've been paying attention in high-school, and that's not a compliment.

France was the first bourgeois democratic society in the world, not the US, so get your facts straight. Besides, the US has always been a two-party state, as opposed to western-European parliamentary republics, which are more advanced, so there goes the myth of "the worlds first and best democracy".

As for the comment on third world countries, are you on drugs? They were colonized by that "beacon of democracy" for over a century! No wonder they're "just now beginning to imitate".

Now that's retarded.

Read a book and then discuss politics please. I suggest A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn.

jeffbr · January 2007

Shapur wrote:

You know what, I wouldn't have cared if you said you were proud of something good. Like for example your "forefathers" striking, or demonstrating an injustice, or doing other progressive things, but proud of "building America" reeks of reactionary thought.

It sounds like that's what you want to hear. Our forefathers, who built this country, were absolutely doing something good and noble. They fought for freedom, fought against taxation, fought for individual liberties and rights.

Shapur · January 2007

jeffbr wrote:

It sounds like that's what you want to hear. Our forefathers, who built this country, were absolutely doing something good and noble. They fought for freedom, fought against taxation, fought for individual liberties and rights.

Fighting for what you mentioned above is not "building America", at least, that's not how I define it to be. Building America means building capitalism, means stealing land from native Americans and killing them. It means oppressing and exploiting thousands upon thousands of workers. It means mass transportation of slaves from Africa to the US to work for nothing.

That's what I define as "building America", and yes, that's certainly not noble or good. Although some patriots here might disagree.

jeffbr · January 2007

Shapur wrote:

Fighting for what you mentioned above is not "building America", at least, that's not how I define it to be. Building America means building capitalism, means stealing land from native Americans and killing them. It means oppressing and exploiting thousands upon thousands of workers. It means mass transportation of slaves from Africa to the US to work for nothing.

That's what I define as "building America", and yes, that's certainly not noble or good. Although some patriots here might disagree.

Well, we'll have to disagree. I know fighting for capitalism is probably a dirty thing to collectivists, but that capitalism created a standard of living that I currently enjoy. I am a proud capitalist and am thankful for the work of people before me who created the environment where hard work, smart work, good ideas, efficiency, and risk are rewarded.

Land theft and slavery were not unique to this country by a long shot, so I'm not sure why you're pinning that on the US.

CorporateWhore · January 2007

Shapur wrote:

I see you've been paying attention in high-school, and that's not a compliment.

France was the first bourgeois democratic society in the world, not the US, so get your facts straight. Besides, the US has always been a two-party state, as opposed to western-European parliamentary republics, which are more advanced, so there goes the myth of "the worlds first and best democracy".

Throw in whatever extra wording you want, man. The United States was the first "liberal democracy." A bourgeois democracy is something you communists like to call "socialism." Plus, France's experiment with the Red flag lasted about a week until the army came in and crushed it.

I saw the play Marx in Soho.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#18th_and_19th_centuries

See? U.S. first liberal democracy.

Shapur wrote:

As for the comment on third world countries, are you on drugs? They were colonized by that "beacon of democracy" for over a century! No wonder they're "just now beginning to imitate".

Now that's retarded.

Read a book and then discuss politics please. I suggest A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn.

The third world countries were backward when the Europeans showed up and they're still backward. Nothing has changed. Even now that they've just begun to imitate us, they still can't get it right. They immediately have dictators as soon as they try.

Now that's retarded.

You are clearly a brainwashed Marxist. Have a free thought, chum. I take my public highschool education with a grain of salt since it came from commie douchebags like yourself.

Here's a little critique on "A People's History of the United States" from a leftist:

"But Zinn's big book is quite unworthy of such fame and influence. A People's History is bad history, albeit gilded with virtuous intentions. Zinn reduces the past to a Manichean fable..."

http://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/?article=385

The book is shitty history. It's crap. Zinn's own left-wing comrades say so.

Shapur · January 2007

jeffbr wrote:

Well, we'll have to disagree. I know fighting for capitalism is probably a dirty thing to collectivists, but that capitalism created a standard of living that I currently enjoy. I am a proud capitalist and am thankful for the work of people before me who created the environment where hard work, smart work, good ideas, efficiency, and risk are rewarded.

Land theft and slavery were not unique to this country by a long shot, so I'm not sure why you're pinning that on the US.

I'm not just pinning that on the US, don't get me wrong, I am opposed to every capitalist state, but this thread is about the US, so that's why I'm focusing on that at the moment.

Capitalism created that standard of living, of course, and I agree with you. I'm not saying capitalism shouldn't have happened. It was a necessary stage of human development.

But what about now. Is capitalism still doing that? It seems to me that the opposite is true. Third world nations are not able to develop because the more advanced capitalist nations are preventing them from doing so. Massive monopolies are buying up technologies and preventing their development so that they can get more profits with their current commodities, and by doing so are retarding the progress of technological development.

Capitalism is now obsolete, and it has been for about a century.

I have a question for you. Don't you think it's selfish for you to be thankful for your current living standard and being proud of the "builders" of America for the same reason, while knowing all the bad they did? And believe me, they did a lot of bad things. The genocide of native Americans was the largest in the history of mankind.

jeffbr · January 2007

Shapur wrote:

I have a question for you. Don't you think it's selfish for you to be thankful for your current living standard and being proud of the "builders" of America for the same reason, while knowing all the bad they did?

Yes, it is selfish. Yes, I am selfish. Since I don't believe in anyone is actually altruistic, the only motivation for people is to act in their self-interest. If that self-interest benefits others, that is a bonus. I try to make the best decisions for me and for my family when confronted with choice.

And capitalism has been dead for a century? Wow. I think this past century has been a shining example of collectivist failures and capitalist successes.

miller8966 · January 2007

Shapur wrote:

I'm not just pinning that on the US, don't get me wrong, I am opposed to every capitalist state, but this thread is about the US, so that's why I'm focusing on that at the moment.

Capitalism created that standard of living, of course, and I agree with you. I'm not saying capitalism shouldn't have happened. It was a necessary stage of human development.

But what about now. Is capitalism still doing that? It seems to me that the opposite is true. Third world nations are not able to develop because the more advanced capitalist nations are preventing them from doing so. Massive monopolies are buying up technologies and preventing their development so that they can get more profits with their current commodities, and by doing so are retarding the progress of technological development.

Capitalism is now obsolete, and it has been for about a century.

I have a question for you. Don't you think it's selfish for you to be thankful for your current living standard and being proud of the "builders" of America for the same reason, while knowing all the bad they did? And believe me, they did a lot of bad things. The genocide of native Americans was the largest in the history of mankind.

i love capitalism

CorporateWhore · January 2007

jeffbr wrote:

Yes, it is selfish. Yes, I am selfish. Since I don't believe in anyone is actually altruistic, the only motivation for people is to act in their self-interest. If that self-interest benefits others, that is a bonus. I try to make the best decisions for me and for my family when confronted with choice.

And capitalism has been dead for a century? Wow. I think this past century has been a shining example of collectivist failures and capitalist successes.

Amen. "Wealth of Nations" by Adam Smith articulates this perfectly. Self-interest causes a general increase in wealth in economies. It's as true today as it was back then.

Whereas, command economies cannot but fail. There is no other option for them.

Shapur · January 2007

CorporateWhore wrote:

Throw in whatever extra wording you want, man. The United States was the first "liberal democracy." A bourgeois democracy is something you communists like to call "socialism." Plus, France's experiment with the Red flag lasted about a week until the army came in and crushed it. I saw the play Marx in Soho.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#18th_and_19th_centuries

See? U.S. first liberal democracy.

From that link: "Although not described as a democracy by the founding fathers, the United States can be seen as the first liberal democracy."

Can be seen as is not the same as it being so. I don't see it as that, you may, but historical evidence is on my side. And no, bourgeois democracy is not socialism. Bourgeois democracy is any democratic system in which capitalism reigns. And it's not important how long the French revolution's effects lasted, the point is that it was the first bourgeois democratic society. The US was not.

The third world countries were backward when the Europeans showed up and they're still backward. Nothing has changed. Even now that they've just begun to imitate us, they still can't get it right. They immediately have dictators as soon as they try.

That depends on your definition of backward. But yes, economically and technologically they were less advanced. That's why the Europeans were able to colonize them. But has it always been so? The Persian empire, just a few centuries before, was more powerful and technologically advanced than any European power. Does that give them the right to colonize Europe?

Would you have supported the colonization of Europe by Persia? I really doubt it. Or what about the take-over of Eastern-Europe by the Soviet Union. I'm sure you oppose that, right? But why? By your logic they should've been allowed to colonize Eastern-Europe because they were economically and technologically more advanced....or wait, can it be that you are just biased to the US and western-Europe doing that?

I think you are.

You are clearly a brainwashed Marxist. Have a free thought, chum. I take my public highschool education with a grain of salt since it came from commie douchebags like yourself.

Funny. The US education system is controlled by commies? No wonder there are so many commies in the US today! That totally makes sense.....weirdo.

Here's a little critique on "A People's History of the United States" from a leftist:

"But Zinn's big book is quite unworthy of such fame and influence. A People's History is bad history, albeit gilded with virtuous intentions. Zinn reduces the past to a Manichean fable..."

http://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/?article=385

The book is shitty history. It's crap. Zinn's own left-wing comrades say so.

Unless you've read it yourself and provide reasons for you finding it crap, that means nothing to me.

Also, lay off the insults, how old are you?

Shapur · January 2007

jeffbr wrote:

Yes, it is selfish. Yes, I am selfish. Since I don't believe in anyone is actually altruistic, the only motivation for people is to act in their self-interest. If that self-interest benefits others, that is a bonus. I try to make the best decisions for me and for my family when confronted with choice.

Don't be surprised when others decide to do the same to you in the future.

And capitalism has been dead for a century? Wow. I think this past century has been a shining example of collectivist failures and capitalist successes.

I said obsolete, not dead.

And for your information, the Soviet Union advanced economically more than any capitalist state has in the history of mankind, during the first and second five year plans. And guess what? They didn't need millions of black slaves to do it with.

CorporateWhore · January 2007

Shapur wrote:

Also, lay off the insults, how old are you?

12.

Commies belong in jail.

lalalalaaaaaaaa · January 2007

Where are the admins for god sake? Way too much flaming here.

stupid americans

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