stupid americans

CorporateWhore

El_Kabong wrote:

no we wouldn't, do you have anything to back this up?

I'm resposting this website because it is so convincing for my argument.

http://www.vdare.com/rubenstein/050524_nd.htm

He outlines that Mexicans who come to our country are far less educated than the immigrants that come to other countries, which are compared with us in test scoring. Therefore, our test scores do not completely reflect the "American" component, seeing as how we have so many idiot immigrants coming in with hardly any education.

It's our fault for letting them enter in the first place.

angelica

CorporateWhore wrote:

The working class is on my side. They hate commie fucks.

Is your goal to have side pitted against side meaning the whole split into opposing factions? Have you considered an actual problem solving stance, rather, and what that might look like? They way such problems are approached give direction to the outcome. Therefore looking to attack your neighbour will bring a different outcome than looking to resolve issues with your neighbour.

CorporateWhore

angelica wrote:

Is your goal to have side pitted against side meaning the whole split into opposing factions? Have you considered an actual problem solving stance, rather, and what that might look like? They way such problems are approached give direction to the outcome. Therefore looking to attack your neighbour will bring a different outcome than looking to resolve issues with your neighbour.

How do you resolve issues with someone who would like to take away your fundamental liberties?

You kill them.

fanch75

CorporateWhore wrote:

How do you resolve issues with someone who would like to take away your fundamental liberties?

You kill them.

Dude, let me say as a conservative, statements like the above do not help conservatism. Statements like this are teh equivalent of the Silent Muslim majority that reportedly abhore the politics of militant Islam.

Byrnzie

CorporateWhore wrote:

The working class is on my side. They hate commie fucks.

So communists aren't, and never were throughout history, made up of the working classes, or proletariat? So who were communists then? The middle and upper classes? If you're talking about the modern day working class then your point is meaningless, because there is no communist party to speak of.

CorporateWhore

fanch75 wrote:

Dude, let me say as a conservative, statements like the above do not help conservatism. Statements like this are teh equivalent of the Silent Muslim majority that reportedly abhore the politics of militant Islam.

Patrick Henry once said, "Give me liberty or give me death." Any leader who would take my fundamental rights of life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness (which is what is entailed in Communism), I'd rather they die.

Isn't that why we've fought wars? So we could keep our freedom? What I said was not extreme at all.

CorporateWhore

Byrnzie wrote:

So communists aren't, and never were throughout history, made up of the working classes, or proletariat? So who were communists then? The middle and upper classes? If you're talking about the modern day working class then your point is meaningless, because there is no communist party to speak of.

Regular working-class Americans do not want Communism or anything remotely like it. They want their jobs to stop being shipped overseas to foreigners for a fraction of the wage that an American would receive. That's a far cry from Communism.

The Working class in America is as patriotic and supportive of this government as anyone.

angelica

CorporateWhore wrote:

How do you resolve issues with someone who would like to take away your fundamental liberties?

You kill them.

Are you saying because someone has a different viewpoint, you automatically go in the direction of killing them? It sounds like you are glossing over numerous interim stages. Do you recognize this is the underlying dynamic of a country at war with itself?

Byrnzie

CorporateWhore wrote:

Regular working-class Americans do not want Communism or anything remotely like it. They want their jobs to stop being shipped overseas to foreigners for a fraction of the wage that an American would receive. That's a far cry from Communism.

The Working class in America is as patriotic and supportive of this government as anyone.

Yo've completely contradicted yourself in this post.
Who is it that's shipping their jobs overseas to foreigners for a fraction of the wage that an American would recieve?
This Government that you presume the working class to be so supportive of is a Government which is encouraging companies to downsize and ship their jobs overseas in order to increase profit.
The enemy of the workers and of the poor isn't other workers and poor, who may just happen to have dark skin and to have hailed from overseas. It's the fat cats that are selling them and their families down the river.

CorporateWhore

angelica wrote:

Are you saying because someone has a different viewpoint, you automatically go in the direction of killing them? It sounds like you are glossing over numerous interim stages. Do you recognize this is the underlying dynamic of a country at war with itself?

No, but if Communists like Shapur tried to enforce their views through the government, I think violent opposition to that would be legal.

trappedinmyradio

CorporateWhore wrote:

No, but if Communists like Shapur tried to enforce their views through the government, I think violent opposition to that would be legal.

then violent opposition of the government's imposition of anything should be considered a valid form of disagreement.

CorporateWhore

Byrnzie wrote:

Yo've completely contradicted yourself in this post.
Who is it that's shipping their jobs overseas to foreigners for a fraction of the wage that an American would recieve?
This Government that you presume the working class to be so supportive of is a Government which is encouraging companies to downsize and ship their jobs overseas in order to increase profit.
The enemy of the workers and of the poor isn't other workers and poor, who may just happen to have dark skin and to have hailed from overseas. It's the fat cats that are selling them and their families down the river.

People who are opposed to shipping jobs overseas must also be necessarily supportive of tarrifs on imported goods. That way, our market can compete because the wages that Americans get are so much higher than foreign wages.

The illegal immigrants that come into our country work for less, necessarily. Therefore, our working class does not want them. Additionally, the working class has values: they believe in God, are opposed to gay-marriage, are patriotic, support individual liberty and gun rights, and like the free market.

Foreigners have a difficult time understanding our working class because in Europe, the lower classes are so leftist. Our working class might vote democratic more frequently, but they could just as easily vote for a Pat Buchanan as a John Kerry.

The fat cats that you refer to are the same people that I disagree with. Bush's free trade policies with Mexico and China are not good for Americans. We need to look out for Americans - not foreigners.

CorporateWhore

trappedinmyradio wrote:

then violent opposition of the government's imposition of anything should be considered a valid form of disagreement.

Only when our essential individual liberties are threatened; namely, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, then and only then should we impose violent opposition to the government.

If the government taxes my income and I disagree, that's not a threat to my life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness. I have opportunities to overturn those laws. But, when the government decides that my income no longer belongs to me, my property no longer belongs to me, or my right to free speech is no longer valid, then I have the right to violent opposition. In a word, if the government became Communist, I would have the right to violent opposition.

The four boxes of freedom are the ballot box, the jury box, the soap box, and finally, the cartridge box.

angelica

CorporateWhore wrote:

No, but if Communists like Shapur tried to enforce their views through the government, I think violent opposition to that would be legal.

Okay, so you realize that "communists like Shapur" trying to enforce their views through the government is a very, very far off type of thing? What I mean is it would take many steps for something like that to happen and it's not even on the radar screen at all now. And should it be on the radar screen sometime, it'll be when many, many people get behind the idea. So therefore what we've got in actuality here is two people--yourself and Shapur--with two different opinions. There is no threat. There is no need to draw lines in the sand or to kill anyone. You can afford to listen to his view, and he can afford to listen to yours. It's for the best interests of your country that those within find ways to stand together, rather than with separation. You spoke earlier of patriotism. Patriotism and love of your country in my mind entails embracing your country and the diversity within it, even when you don't agree with that diversity. Your country is what it is--the good with the bad. I'm all for addressing positive change. However hating and fearing aspects of your own country only contributes to a cancer that eats a way at the country from within, and therefore is the opposite of patriotism in my mind. When a country is being eaten away at from within, it's losing it's own legs--legs it needs to stand on. Real patriotism seems to be to be about truly and actually embracing your country for what it is, and beyond that lies in evolving it, not devolving.

yiorgis

i agree with cutback,i am from Greece and you can find many "stupid" or whatever Greeks here too

Shapur

CorporateWhore wrote:

Regular working-class Americans do not want Communism or anything remotely like it. They want their jobs to stop being shipped overseas to foreigners for a fraction of the wage that an American would receive. That's a far cry from Communism.

The Working class in America is as patriotic and supportive of this government as anyone.

The majority of working-class people in the US don't even vote. Especially not for the Bush regime. So I guess you just make facts as you go along and hope no one notices.

Sorry, you have to do better than that.

Also, of course the US working class isn't class-conscious at the moment, if they were you would probably be in a labor camp. Not because you oppose communism, but because you want to actively fight communism.

The same thing would happen to me if I were to actively fight the current government, so shut up about "taking away fundamental liberties".

If you are so sure of the working class supporting you and your rotten system, a system in which the working class is enslaved through wages by capitalist bosses, why are you so quick to threaten me and other comrades with death?

Maybe because deep down you know that there will come a day when the workers will decide they have enough of this shit, and decide to take over everything themselves, like they have done so many times throughout history.

Did you know it took the bourgeoisie, the current ruling class, several centuries and several attempts to be able to take political power from the feudalist ruling class and establish a bourgeois political system? No, of course you didn't, they don't teach you stuff like that in high-school (even though it is controlled by evil commies).

Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't happen. Actually the proletarian movement has been more successful in a shorter period of time than the early bourgeois movement was.

CorporateWhore

Shapur wrote:

The majority of working-class people in the US don't even vote. Especially not for the Bush regime. So I guess you just make facts as you go along and hope no one notices.

Sorry, you have to do better than that.

Also, of course the US working class isn't class-conscious at the moment, if they were you would probably be in a labor camp. Not because you oppose communism, but because you want to actively fight communism.

The same thing would happen to me if I were to actively fight the current government, so shut up about "taking away fundamental liberties".

If you are so sure of the working class supporting you and your rotten system, a system in which the working class is enslaved through wages by capitalist bosses, why are you so quick to threaten me and other comrades with death?

Maybe because deep down you know that there will come a day when the workers will decide they have enough of this shit, and decide to take over everything themselves, like they have done so many times throughout history.

Did you know it took the bourgeoisie, the current ruling class, several centuries and several attempts to be able to take political power from the feudalist ruling class and establish a bourgeois political system? No, of course you didn't, they don't teach you stuff like that in high-school (even though it is controlled by evil commies).

Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't happen. Actually the proletarian movement has been more successful in a shorter period of time than the early bourgeois movement was.

I look forward to the day that people like you are in jail.

jeffbr

Shapur wrote:

The majority of working-class people in the US don't even vote. Especially not for the Bush regime. So I guess you just make facts as you go along and hope no one notices.

Without that vote you're SOL, too. Unless you think our creeping statism will gradually create a command system you're looking for organically.

Shapur wrote:

Sorry, you have to do better than that.

Also, of course the US working class isn't class-conscious at the moment, if they were you would probably be in a labor camp. Not because you oppose communism, but because you want to actively fight communism.

So you think the working class is just waiting like cattle to be herded into your new system, and if the masses ever got a clue they'd adopt communism?

Shapur wrote:

The same thing would happen to me if I were to actively fight the current government, so shut up about "taking away fundamental liberties".

I guess it depends upon what you mean by "fight". You are currently free to argue your case and explain how we'll be happier, wealthier and more productive under your system, and you'll suffer no repurcussions aside from snide remarks from capitalist pigs like me.

But the system you are evangelising absolutely strips people of their fundamental liberties. It has to. They are no longer free to realize their potential. They are no longer rewarded for hard work, innovation, personal responsibility.

Shapur wrote:

If you are so sure of the working class supporting you and your rotten system, a system in which the working class is enslaved through wages by capitalist bosses, why are you so quick to threaten me and other comrades with death?

I know you weren't directing that at me, since I've never called for your death. I'm humored rather than angered by your pursuit. The working class isn't enslaved at all. The working class is free to trade their labor for a wage with any business that sees value. And the worker is free to increase the value of the work through experience and knowledge and realize a higher wage, or perhaps create a business themselves. It is hardly slavery when two entities enter into a contract of their own volition, free from coersion.

Shapur wrote:

Maybe because deep down you know that there will come a day when the workers will decide they have enough of this shit, and decide to take over everything themselves, like they have done so many times throughout history.

Have done to no avail so many times through history. They trade freedom for real slavery, and in the end stand in bread lines.

Shapur wrote:

Did you know it took the bourgeoisie, the current ruling class, several centuries and several attempts to be able to take political power from the feudalist ruling class and establish a bourgeois political system? No, of course you didn't, they don't teach you stuff like that in high-school (even though it is controlled by evil commies).

You have, on a couple of occasions, talked about the speed with which a command system has done something. So what? To what end? And at what cost? The red Chinese army goose steps better than the American army. Again, so what?

Shapur wrote:

Just because it hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't happen. Actually the proletarian movement has been more successful in a shorter period of time than the early bourgeois movement was.

Again, your focus is speed for some reason. My focus is staying power. (we're still talking about economic and political systems, right?)

I have tried to figure out what attracts one to a communist system. The only thing I can think of is fear. Fear of not being able to be successful as an individual. Fear of being out worked by a neighbor. Fear of being left to one's own devices. Fear of the responsibility freedom demands.

Shapur

jeffbr wrote:

It is hardly slavery when two entities enter into a contract of their own volition, free from coersion.

Free from coercion from the perspective of the capitalist, not the worker. If the worker doesn't work, s/he starves.

Rushlimbo

CorporateWhore wrote:

I look forward to the day that people like you are in jail.

Are you rallying behind capitalism or fascism now?