How can Israel deal with the palestinians?

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

Prophet Hosea 1:6
But upon the House of Judah I will have mercy and I will save them through Hashem their God; I will not save them with bow, with sword, with warfare, with steeds or with riders.

He spoke up and said to me saying: “This is the word of Hashem to Zerubabel saying. ‘Not through army and through strength, but through My spirit, said Hashem, Master of Legions’” [Zecharia 4:6].

In those times, many will rise up against the king of the South; and sons of the lawless men of your people [Metzudois explain: this means: the wicked among the Jews] will exalt themselves [Metzudois explain: they will rise themselves to establish a vision but they will stumble because they will die and will be lost because of this] to establish a vision, but they will stumble [Daniel 11:14].

Behold, these will come from afar; and behold, these will come from the north and from the west, and these from the land of the Sinites [Yeshaya 49:12].

To grasp the edges of the earth and shake the wicked from it [Iyov 38:13].

Aramaic translation: “To grasp the edges of the Land of Yisroeil and to throw the wicked inhabitants from it” [Targum Iyov 38:13].

The word of G-d came to me saying: “Son of man, your brothers your brothers, your kinsmen and the entire House of Yisroeil, about whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem say, ‘Distance yourselves from G-d; the Land is given to us for a heritage’, therefore, say: Thus said the Lord G-d; Though I removed them far away among the nations, and though I have scattered them among the lands, yet I have been for them a small sanctuary in the lands where they arrived”. Therefore, say: “Thus said the Lord G-d; I will assemble you from the nations and gather you in from the lands where you have been scattered, and give you the Land of Yisroeil. They will come there and remove all its detestations and all its abominations from it. I will give them an undivided heart and I will place a new spirit in them; I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, so that they may walk in My decrees and observe My laws and fulfill them. Then they will be a people unto Me and I will be a G-d for them. But those whose heart follows the heart of their detestations and abominations, I will place their way upon their head, the word of the Lord G-d” [Yechezkel 11:14-21].

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/scriptures/torah/tanach.pdf
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/scriptures/torah/tanach2.pdf
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/scriptures/torah/tanach3.pdf

Byrnzie wrote:

You obviously don't have a sound grasp of English grammar. I'll try to explain it to you. Victimisation suggests an ongoing process of abuse or exploitation. It does not refer to a particular, single act of violence. The Israeli's as a whole, do not wake up every day feeling that they are being victimized.
Certain Israelis have on occasion, however, been subjected to a particular act of violence against them from one or two Palestinian terrorists.
Palestinians, on the other hand are the victims of victimisation. Their everyday existence consists of an ongoing series of humiliations, degradations, and acts of random and often unprovoked violence. They are forced to live in squalor and are restricted in their movements by road blocks, checkpoints and curfews. They have witnessed the steady diminishing of their land by the ever increasing settlements, and they have also had to endure watching their homes bulldozed by Caterpillar bulldozers supplied by American tax-payers.
This is victimisation.

yeah, actually from having lived in Israel i can tell you that you're wrong. i'd say that waking up every day and being afraid to let your kids ride the bus to school cause they might get bombed is victimization. and terror doesn't affect just a few people. Israel is a tiny country and there isn't a person living there who hasn't known someone killed or terribly affected by Palestinian terrorism, so stop trying to paint one side as the victim and the other as the victimizer. the reality, as always, is more complex. both sides are the victims of the other.

Byrnzie wrote:

Maybe you should act on your obvious humanitarian and educational instincts, and offer to spend a year in the occupied territories, where you can teach these ignorant savages the error of their ways?

have you ever been to Israel or to the occupied territories?

Byrnzie wrote:

O.k. I'm not here to simply rip peoples ideas to shreds and to throw abuse around. But come on NCfan, think about what you're saying here! How much do you really know about these people? I'll admit that I know fuck all. But I know better than to paint an entire people with a brush like you've just done. Check this out if you have the time and inclination...
http://www.amazon.com/Orientalism-Edward-W-Said/dp/039474067X/sr=1-1/qid=1166564937/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-8195324-8395353?ie=UTF8&s=books
"The theme is the way in which intellectual traditions are created and trans-mitted... Orientalism is the example Mr. Said uses, and by it he means something precise. The scholar who studies the Orient (and specifically the Muslim Orient), the imaginitive writer who takes it as his subject, and the institutions which have been concerned with teaching it, settling it, ruling it, all have a certain representation or idea of the Orient defined as being other than the Occident, mysterious, unchanging and ultimately inferior." --Albert Hourani, New York Review of Books

that's funny cause you seem to paint all Israelis with one brush, or perhaps you don't think they are people?

Byrnzie wrote:

No. Doesn't mean i'm unqualified to talk about it if that's what you're driving at.

well actually it means that 1) you might want to stop suggesting to other people that they go visit since you haven't been there, and 2) the fact that you suggest a visit shows that you think there is something to be learned from first hand experience, which I have had and you haven't. you can talk about it all you want, but at the end of the day I've seen the reality with my own eyes, while you see only what you choose to see through your choice of news outlet.

miller8966 wrote:

I love Israel, and i love the fact that my tax dollars go to support one of the only democratic regimes in the middle east.

I wouldn't consider Israel to be entirely democratic, it's a theocracy.

dayan wrote:

No it isn't. Israel is a secular country.

How does it differ from say, Iran?

dayan wrote:

in Iran the government is controlled by a clerical body that can veto candidates from being put on ballots. the clerics can veto policies, and impose their own. additionally the clerics control the country's military. In Israel there are perfectly free elections and the government isn't answerable to any clerical body. they answer only to the people that elect it as in any democracy. the fact that you could even ask this question shows how little you know about Israel and Iran, and you might want to think about educating yourself somewhat before you start making claims about the theocratic nature of other people's governments.

Yea, that's probably a good idea.

What about Zionism, is that also not theocratic?

dayan wrote:

zionism is also secular. it is is the Jewish movement for national self-determination. Virtually all of zionism's founding fathers and luminaries were secular through and through. the Zionist connection to Israel is historical and cultural. there is a religious zionism as well, but this is not theocratic. it simply adds a layer of religious meaning on top of what might be called generic zionist ideology.

Sounds like bullshit to me.

Sounds like a bunch of little kids fighting over a swing or something.

"I was on it first!"

"No you weren't! I was!"