No? Why not? You can't qualify anything you're saying and yet you sit there attempting to pick holes in what I'm saying and place demands upon me.
Thanks for wasting my time.
That would imply a difficult task. Spotting rampant hypocrisy isn't too tough.
Thank you for one of the most entertaining responses I've ever seen here though.
Why are you trying to be clever? Who are you trying to impress?
If you don't know the difference between the word meaningless and the word ridiculous then I'll do you the favour of providing you a link to an online dictionary.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
If you don't know the difference between the word meaningless and the word ridiculous then I'll do you the favour of providing you a link to an online dictionary.
I find it fascinating that someone who supports Israel can level the word 'hypocrisy' at anyone.
Then why did you admit to focusing on only one sides aggression in an earlier post? If you feel both have blame why cant you acknowledge that both have blame?
I'll spell it out for you and you can then rack your brain and attempt to pick holes in it.
I don't believe that it's right for a Palestinian to blow himself up and murder dozens of Israelis in the process. This is an act of terror and no one in their right mind would support such an act.
However, It is plain to see what drives someone to carry out such an act and what a desperate plight the Palestinians are in so that they feel there is no way out other than by directing their anger and despair in such an extreme way.
On the other hand, Israel pretends a stance of 'victim' whilst they subject the Palestinians to daily acts of humiliation and terror. The number of Palestinians killed by Israelis far outweighs that of Israelis killed by Palestinians. I believe the statistics to be somewhere in the region of 10 -1. Palestinians have been undergoing a brutal and illegal military occupation for 36 years. If you read the page I pasted above detailing the poverty and humiliation that Palestinians are experiencing then this will give you an idea of their situation. Although the article is from 2003. Things are a lot worse for them now.
Hence, there is no level playing field to speak of.
Now go ahead and pick holes in my post....
Why is it that ever defense of the Palestinians on this board goes like this:
1) Isreal sucks and is a terrorist state
2-20) Bunch of diversions
21) Palestinian terrorism is bad
22) BUT...............
23) Return to #1
We could use the torah/talmud. God banished the Jews to live amongst the nations of the world, if they should try to return forcefully, they will fail.
That's Judaism, not my belief.
Zionism is to blame.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
We could use the torah/talmud. God banished the Jews to live amongst the nations of the world, if they should try to return forcefully, they will fail.
That's Judaism, not my belief.
Zionism is to blame.
Um, that is certainly far from Judaism. That's called you being ignorant.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
Please provide an example of what you feel is a 'diversion'.
Here's a diversion. When someone highlights a perceived hypocrisy wherein you decry Israeli "terrorism" but make no mention of Palestinian "terrorism", it always seems to take a minimum of 10 posts to get someone like you to say Palestinian terrorism is bad. The previous nine posts are all composed of one-sided articles or youtube videos that highlight the very real plight of Palestinian people, but make no mention of the victimization of the Israeli people. To top it all off, that tenth post always contains a "BUT", usually amounting to a "who can blame them" argument. That just begs the question:
If you can't blame Palestinian terrorists, how can you blame Israeli terrorists???? Neither side wages war for the fun of it. They wage war for reasons.
Um, that is certainly far from Judaism. That's called you being ignorant.
Forgive my ignorance Rabbi. This is what the Jews against Zionism believe. It's also what's written in the Torah and Talmud.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Forgive my ignorance Rabbi. This is what the Jews against Zionism believe. It's also what's written in the Torah and Talmud.
Oh really, would you like to quote me chapter and verse please?
And while you're at it, why don't you explain to me how halacha works so that you can make sure you put it in the right context and make sure that that's what is being said.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
I'll spell it out for you and you can then rack your brain and attempt to pick holes in it.
I don't believe that it's right for a Palestinian to blow himself up and murder dozens of Israelis in the process. This is an act of terror and no one in their right mind would support such an act.
However, It is plain to see what drives someone to carry out such an act and what a desperate plight the Palestinians are in so that they feel there is no way out other than by directing their anger and despair in such an extreme way.
On the other hand, Israel pretends a stance of 'victim' whilst they subject the Palestinians to daily acts of humiliation and terror. The number of Palestinians killed by Israelis far outweighs that of Israelis killed by Palestinians. I believe the statistics to be somewhere in the region of 10 -1. Palestinians have been undergoing a brutal and illegal military occupation for 36 years. If you read the page I pasted above detailing the poverty and humiliation that Palestinians are experiencing then this will give you an idea of their situation. Although the article is from 2003. Things are a lot worse for them now.
Hence, there is no level playing field to speak of.
Now go ahead and pick holes in my post....
I dont disagree with most of this post, but this isnt what you said before. So dont completely bring this shit out of thin air and then act like I have been ignoring you saying this all along. Much of this, especially about the Palestinians blowing themselves up, you hadnt even mentioned before. Which is why I called you naive in the first place. Your a hypocrite until someone calls you on your blatant hypocrisy and then you try and get all defensive about it and change your argument. If you had argued this from the beginning, we would have mostly agreed, as I have already said that I dont agree in much of what Israel does.
And I already agreed it wasnt a level playing field, but you obviously conveniently ignored that too. But blame can be placed on both sides regardless of the playing field.
Here's a diversion. When someone highlights a perceived hypocrisy wherein you decry Israeli "terrorism" but make no mention of Palestinian "terrorism", it always seems to take a minimum of 10 posts to get someone like you to say Palestinian terrorism is bad. The previous nine posts are all composed of one-sided articles or youtube videos that highlight the very real plight of Palestinian people, but make no mention of the victimization of the Israeli people. To top it all off, that tenth post always contains a "BUT", usually amounting to a "who can blame them" argument. That just begs the question:
If you can't blame Palestinian terrorists, how can you blame Israeli terrorists???? Neither side wages war for the fun of it. They wage war for reasons.
I notice that you find it useful to ignore much of what I've stated in order to support your empty standpoint. You sound like a typical American. When 14 members of a Palestinian family were wiped out by an Israeli missile attack a few weeks ago, and this attack was condemned at the U.N, it was then vetoed by the U.S for a 'lack of balance'. This same scenerio has been repeated aprroximately 80 times at the U.N over the past 36 years. The U.S refuses to condemn or criticise Israel without exception.
I suppose that you call this fair? Israel can massacre civilians at will and you'll call it self defence. But if a Palestinian blows himself up on an Israeli bus then you'll call that an act of unspeakble terror.
It's common for supporters of Israel - of which you are one - on this board to attempt to muddy the water. I suppose you are of the opinion that the peace process (to date a myth as the U.S has singlehandedly vetoed any and every attempt at a two-state solution) can not proceed until the Palestinians renounce violence?
I expect, however, that along with the U.S, you make no such demands upon the Israelis.
And you call me a hypocrite?
I dont disagree with most of this post, but this isnt what you said before. So dont completely bring this shit out of thin air and then act like I have been ignoring you saying this all along. Much of this, especially about the Palestinians blowing themselves up, you hadnt even mentioned before. Which is why I called you naive in the first place. Your a hypocrite until someone calls you on your blatant hypocrisy and then you try and get all defensive about it and change your argument. If you had argued this from the beginning, we would have mostly agreed, as I have already said that I dont agree in much of what Israel does.
And I already agreed it wasnt a level playing field, but you obviously conveniently ignored that too. But blame can be placed on both sides regardless of the playing field.
Again, I'll repeat the first post that i was responding to...
How can Israel deal with the Palestinians? When obviously they cant keep it together.
You're right. There is no level playing field. And again, I'll repeat what I said earlier. That the above is the equivalent of someone asking 'How can the Nazis deal with the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto? When obviously they cant keep it together'.
A bit extreme, you may say. But then It would be interesting to know how you and FarFromGlorified would find a year spent with the Palestinians in the ghettos known as the occupied territories.
Again, I'll repeat the first post that i was responding to...
You're right. There is no level playing field. And again, I'll repeat what I said earlier. That the above is the equivalent of someone asking 'How can the Nazis deal with the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto? When obviously they cant keep it together'.
A bit extreme, you may say. But then It would be interesting to know how you and FarFromGlorified would find a year spent with the Palestinians in the ghettos known as the occupied territories.
What the fuck does your last sentence mean? Are you still missing the part where I place plenty of fault and blame on Israel? I certainly feel for the Palestinian people and would like to see a Palestinian state. So dont start with this bullshit that I am unsympathetic to their cause. I have made it quite clear this entire thread that I dont support much of what Israel does against the palestinians. But being sympathetic to their cause doesnt dismiss everything they do.
but make no mention of the victimization of the Israeli people.
Please provide an example of the victimization of the Israeli people.
Or is this a case of a grammatical error, and are you actually referring to particular, individual acts of terror against Israelis? Because there is no ongoing victimization of Israelis by Palestinians occuring.
What the fuck does your last sentence mean? Are you still missing the part where I place plenty of fault and blame on Israel? I certainly feel for the Palestinian people and would like to see a Palestinian state. So dont start with this bullshit that I am unsympathetic to their cause. I have made it quite clear this entire thread that I dont support much of what Israel does against the palestinians. But being sympathetic to their cause doesnt dismiss everything they do.
I notice that you find it useful to ignore much of what I've stated in order to support your empty standpoint.
What have I ignored?
You sound like a typical American.
Man, this keeps getting better.
When 14 members of a Palestinian family were wiped out by an Israeli missile attack a few weeks ago, and this attack was condemned at the U.N, it was then vetoed by the U.S for a 'lack of balance'. This same scenerio has been repeated aprroximately 80 times at the U.N over the past 36 years. The U.S refuses to condemn or criticise Israel without exception.
I suppose that you call this fair?
Not at all. It's also not fair when the UN refuses to criticize Palestinian militants without exception.
Israel can massacre civilians at will and you'll call it self defence.
No, I'd call it murder. But thanks for putting words in my mouth.
But if a Palestinian blows himself up on an Israeli bus then you'll call that an act of unspeakble terror.
"Unspeakable terror" would be a contradiction in terms. Anyway, I'd call that murder too. Note the consistency.
It's common for supporters of Israel - of which you are one - on this board to attempt to muddy the water.
First, I'm not a supporter of Israel. I said that earlier (perhaps you missed it). Secondly, I'm sorry if looking at things objectively "muddies the water".
I suppose you are of the opinion that the peace process (to date a myth as the U.S has singlehandedly vetoed any and every attempt at a two-state solution) can not proceed until the Palestinians renounce violence?
No peace process can work until both sides honestly renounce violence. That's the definition of peace.
I expect, however, that along with the U.S, you make no such demands upon the Israelis.
I do.
And you call me a hypocrite?
Yes. I also call you presumptuous now because all of your assumptions here about me were wrong.
Please provide an example of the victimization of the Israeli people.
You already did this yourself when you mentioned that a bomber killed 14 Israelis. There are many, many examples of such victimizations. Are you looking for more examples or a specific type of instance?
Or is this a case of a grammatical error, and are you actually referring to particular, individual acts of terror against Israelis? Because there is no ongoing victimization of Israelis by Palestinians occuring.
No ongoing victimization? So what do you call it when a Palestinian bomber kills a 2 year old child? "Collateral damage"?
Oh really, would you like to quote me chapter and verse please?
And while you're at it, why don't you explain to me how halacha works so that you can make sure you put it in the right context and make sure that that's what is being said.
No I wouldn't Rabbi.
It's not my religion, I think it's all a big elaborate hoax, personally.
But Jews against Zionism speak for themselves. And the evidence is, Israel is not living a happy life killing Palestinians.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
No ongoing victimization? So what do you call it when a Palestinian bomber kills a 2 year old child? "Collateral damage"?
You obviously don't have a sound grasp of English grammar. I'll try to explain it to you. Victimisation suggests an ongoing process of abuse or exploitation. It does not refer to a particular, single act of violence. The Israeli's as a whole, do not wake up every day feeling that they are being victimized.
Certain Israelis have on occasion, however, been subjected to a particular act of violence against them from one or two Palestinian terrorists.
Palestinians, on the other hand are the victims of victimisation. Their everyday existence consists of an ongoing series of humiliations, degradations, and acts of random and often unprovoked violence. They are forced to live in squalor and are restricted in their movements by road blocks, checkpoints and curfews. They have witnessed the steady diminishing of their land by the ever increasing settlements, and they have also had to endure watching their homes bulldozed by Caterpillar bulldozers supplied by American tax-payers.
This is victimisation.
You obviously don't have a sound grasp of English grammar.
Hehe...what are you hoping to accomplish with these insults?
I'll try to explain it to you. Victimisation suggests an ongoing process of abuse or exploitation. It does not refer to a particular, single act of violence.
So is it your contention that Palestinians are responsible for only a single act of violence?
The Israeli's as a whole, do not wake up every day feeling that they are being victimized.
Really? That seems odd since you'll find a lot of Israelis here who would tell you otherwise.
Certain Israelis have on occasion, however, been subjected to a particular act of violence against them from one or two Palestinian terrorists.
"One or two"??? Which is it? Above you seem to indicate only one. But here you seem to allow for two.
Palestinians, on the other hand are the victims of victimisation. Their everyday existence consists of an ongoing series of humiliations, degradations, and acts of random and often unprovoked violence. They are forced to live in squalor and are restricted in their movements by road blocks, checkpoints and curfews. They have witnessed the steady diminishing of their land by the ever increasing settlements, and they have also had to endure watching their homes bulldozed by Caterpillar bulldozers supplied by American tax-payers.
This is victimisation.
Hehe...what are you hoping to accomplish with these insults?
So is it your contention that Palestinians are responsible for only a single act of violence?
Really? That seems odd since you'll find a lot of Israelis here who would tell you otherwise.
"One or two"??? Which is it? Above you seem to indicate only one. But here you seem to allow for two.
That is victimization, most definitely.
1. I get a kick out of batting insults back at you.
2. I did not state that Palestinians are responsible for only a single act of violence? But intermittant and infrequent acts of violence do not qualify an entire country regarding itself as being victimised. I doubt very much that anyone, including the Spanish, regards Spain as being victimized by the separatist group Eta. The English certainly didn't feel themselves victimised despite occasional attacks from the I.R.A.
3. I doubt it. Although if they do then they should attempt to convince the Israeli government to pull the military out of the occupied territories and back beyond the 1967 borders.
4. 1,2,3. It depnds on the individual act. It's basically irrelevant. I was simply making the point.
1. I get a kick out of batting insults back at you.
Phew...glad to hear you're getting some benefit out of them.
2. I did not state that Palestinians are responsible for only a single act of violence?
Are you sure? You grouped Palestinian acts into this statement regarding victimization: "It does not refer to a particular, single act of violence."
But intermittant and infrequent acts of violence do not qualify an entire country regarding itself as being victimised.
They do when those "intermittant" and "infrequent" acts happen across an entire country, affecting a large number of people, and carry with them a threat of destruction to all who live within certain borders.
I doubt very much that anyone, including the Spanish, regards Spain as being victimized by the separatist group Eta. The English certainly didn't feel themselves victimised despite occasional attacks from the I.R.A.
I would certainly regard those nations as victims of those groups, and vice versa.
I would certainly regard those nations as victims of those groups, and vice versa.
No. We didn't ever feel victimized. These acts of violence occured on the news and in the newspapers. Sure, there was a certain amount of apprehension following such attacks. Just as after the attacks on the London tube network on 7/7/05 resulted in a great deal of apprehension. I was late for work that day and would have possibly been a victim if I'd been on time. However, people went back to work the next day and we carried on with our priveleged lives.
The Palestinians don't have it so easy. For them everyday is a struggle, a humiliation, and a gamble.
Give me a break... the borders of every single country in the world are a result of conflict and a resolution. There will always be an argument of who came first, but the past 50 years have proven that Isreal is permanent and isn't going anywhere.
The arabs have attempted four wars against them and lost all of them miserably. This is all about lost pride hurt egos. 350 million arabs can't understand why they can't defeat 7 million Jews, and it eats at them and forms the basis of all the hatred going on over there. Whenever they decide to get over it, then we can move forward...
There just needs to be a defintative war to settle all of this. As humans, we're just not capable of letting this shit go wihtout war. Many, MANY Palestinians teach their children to hate the Jews and Israel. Think about all the Palestinian and other Arab parents who were either part of the wars in which their asses were kicked by Isreal, or their parents were involved - or they knew somebody close who was humiliated?
When their children ask about those things, their parents brainwash them. Much the same way that Americans have guilt about alot of our history. The difference here, is that our society is so transparent - it's a lot easier for us to call bullshit on rhetoric. It's alot easier for us to educate ourselves and learn unbiased truths on our own. Over there, it's all about surviving and tribalism. Those don't lend themselves to discovery or understanding - both of which are necessary for reconsillication!
It's alot easier for us to educate ourselves and learn unbiased truths on our own. Over there, it's all about surviving and tribalism. Those don't lend themselves to discovery or understanding - both of which are necessary for reconsillication!
Maybe you should act on your obvious humanitarian and educational instincts, and offer to spend a year in the occupied territories, where you can teach these ignorant savages the error of their ways?
Comments
No? Why not? You can't qualify anything you're saying and yet you sit there attempting to pick holes in what I'm saying and place demands upon me.
Thanks for wasting my time.
Why are you trying to be clever? Who are you trying to impress?
If you don't know the difference between the word meaningless and the word ridiculous then I'll do you the favour of providing you a link to an online dictionary.
http://dictionary.reference.com/
I find it fascinating that someone who supports Israel can level the word 'hypocrisy' at anyone.
Give up Zionism.
I don't have to try. It comes naturally.
You.
I don't support Israel.
I'll spell it out for you and you can then rack your brain and attempt to pick holes in it.
I don't believe that it's right for a Palestinian to blow himself up and murder dozens of Israelis in the process. This is an act of terror and no one in their right mind would support such an act.
However, It is plain to see what drives someone to carry out such an act and what a desperate plight the Palestinians are in so that they feel there is no way out other than by directing their anger and despair in such an extreme way.
On the other hand, Israel pretends a stance of 'victim' whilst they subject the Palestinians to daily acts of humiliation and terror. The number of Palestinians killed by Israelis far outweighs that of Israelis killed by Palestinians. I believe the statistics to be somewhere in the region of 10 -1. Palestinians have been undergoing a brutal and illegal military occupation for 36 years. If you read the page I pasted above detailing the poverty and humiliation that Palestinians are experiencing then this will give you an idea of their situation. Although the article is from 2003. Things are a lot worse for them now.
Hence, there is no level playing field to speak of.
Now go ahead and pick holes in my post....
1) Isreal sucks and is a terrorist state
2-20) Bunch of diversions
21) Palestinian terrorism is bad
22) BUT...............
23) Return to #1
Please provide an example of what you feel is a 'diversion'.
We could use the torah/talmud. God banished the Jews to live amongst the nations of the world, if they should try to return forcefully, they will fail.
That's Judaism, not my belief.
Zionism is to blame.
Um, that is certainly far from Judaism. That's called you being ignorant.
Here's a diversion. When someone highlights a perceived hypocrisy wherein you decry Israeli "terrorism" but make no mention of Palestinian "terrorism", it always seems to take a minimum of 10 posts to get someone like you to say Palestinian terrorism is bad. The previous nine posts are all composed of one-sided articles or youtube videos that highlight the very real plight of Palestinian people, but make no mention of the victimization of the Israeli people. To top it all off, that tenth post always contains a "BUT", usually amounting to a "who can blame them" argument. That just begs the question:
If you can't blame Palestinian terrorists, how can you blame Israeli terrorists???? Neither side wages war for the fun of it. They wage war for reasons.
Forgive my ignorance Rabbi. This is what the Jews against Zionism believe. It's also what's written in the Torah and Talmud.
Oh really, would you like to quote me chapter and verse please?
And while you're at it, why don't you explain to me how halacha works so that you can make sure you put it in the right context and make sure that that's what is being said.
I dont disagree with most of this post, but this isnt what you said before. So dont completely bring this shit out of thin air and then act like I have been ignoring you saying this all along. Much of this, especially about the Palestinians blowing themselves up, you hadnt even mentioned before. Which is why I called you naive in the first place. Your a hypocrite until someone calls you on your blatant hypocrisy and then you try and get all defensive about it and change your argument. If you had argued this from the beginning, we would have mostly agreed, as I have already said that I dont agree in much of what Israel does.
And I already agreed it wasnt a level playing field, but you obviously conveniently ignored that too. But blame can be placed on both sides regardless of the playing field.
I notice that you find it useful to ignore much of what I've stated in order to support your empty standpoint. You sound like a typical American. When 14 members of a Palestinian family were wiped out by an Israeli missile attack a few weeks ago, and this attack was condemned at the U.N, it was then vetoed by the U.S for a 'lack of balance'. This same scenerio has been repeated aprroximately 80 times at the U.N over the past 36 years. The U.S refuses to condemn or criticise Israel without exception.
I suppose that you call this fair? Israel can massacre civilians at will and you'll call it self defence. But if a Palestinian blows himself up on an Israeli bus then you'll call that an act of unspeakble terror.
It's common for supporters of Israel - of which you are one - on this board to attempt to muddy the water. I suppose you are of the opinion that the peace process (to date a myth as the U.S has singlehandedly vetoed any and every attempt at a two-state solution) can not proceed until the Palestinians renounce violence?
I expect, however, that along with the U.S, you make no such demands upon the Israelis.
And you call me a hypocrite?
Again, I'll repeat the first post that i was responding to...
You're right. There is no level playing field. And again, I'll repeat what I said earlier. That the above is the equivalent of someone asking 'How can the Nazis deal with the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto? When obviously they cant keep it together'.
A bit extreme, you may say. But then It would be interesting to know how you and FarFromGlorified would find a year spent with the Palestinians in the ghettos known as the occupied territories.
What the fuck does your last sentence mean? Are you still missing the part where I place plenty of fault and blame on Israel? I certainly feel for the Palestinian people and would like to see a Palestinian state. So dont start with this bullshit that I am unsympathetic to their cause. I have made it quite clear this entire thread that I dont support much of what Israel does against the palestinians. But being sympathetic to their cause doesnt dismiss everything they do.
Please provide an example of the victimization of the Israeli people.
Or is this a case of a grammatical error, and are you actually referring to particular, individual acts of terror against Israelis? Because there is no ongoing victimization of Israelis by Palestinians occuring.
Hence the use of my words "..may say".
I still dont see why that sentence was directed at me what so ever.
What have I ignored?
Man, this keeps getting better.
Not at all. It's also not fair when the UN refuses to criticize Palestinian militants without exception.
No, I'd call it murder. But thanks for putting words in my mouth.
"Unspeakable terror" would be a contradiction in terms. Anyway, I'd call that murder too. Note the consistency.
First, I'm not a supporter of Israel. I said that earlier (perhaps you missed it). Secondly, I'm sorry if looking at things objectively "muddies the water".
No peace process can work until both sides honestly renounce violence. That's the definition of peace.
I do.
Yes. I also call you presumptuous now because all of your assumptions here about me were wrong.
My tail was up. I apologise. Peace!
You already did this yourself when you mentioned that a bomber killed 14 Israelis. There are many, many examples of such victimizations. Are you looking for more examples or a specific type of instance?
No ongoing victimization? So what do you call it when a Palestinian bomber kills a 2 year old child? "Collateral damage"?
No I wouldn't Rabbi.
It's not my religion, I think it's all a big elaborate hoax, personally.
But Jews against Zionism speak for themselves. And the evidence is, Israel is not living a happy life killing Palestinians.
You obviously don't have a sound grasp of English grammar. I'll try to explain it to you. Victimisation suggests an ongoing process of abuse or exploitation. It does not refer to a particular, single act of violence. The Israeli's as a whole, do not wake up every day feeling that they are being victimized.
Certain Israelis have on occasion, however, been subjected to a particular act of violence against them from one or two Palestinian terrorists.
Palestinians, on the other hand are the victims of victimisation. Their everyday existence consists of an ongoing series of humiliations, degradations, and acts of random and often unprovoked violence. They are forced to live in squalor and are restricted in their movements by road blocks, checkpoints and curfews. They have witnessed the steady diminishing of their land by the ever increasing settlements, and they have also had to endure watching their homes bulldozed by Caterpillar bulldozers supplied by American tax-payers.
This is victimisation.
Hehe...what are you hoping to accomplish with these insults?
So is it your contention that Palestinians are responsible for only a single act of violence?
Really? That seems odd since you'll find a lot of Israelis here who would tell you otherwise.
"One or two"??? Which is it? Above you seem to indicate only one. But here you seem to allow for two.
That is victimization, most definitely.
1. I get a kick out of batting insults back at you.
2. I did not state that Palestinians are responsible for only a single act of violence? But intermittant and infrequent acts of violence do not qualify an entire country regarding itself as being victimised. I doubt very much that anyone, including the Spanish, regards Spain as being victimized by the separatist group Eta. The English certainly didn't feel themselves victimised despite occasional attacks from the I.R.A.
3. I doubt it. Although if they do then they should attempt to convince the Israeli government to pull the military out of the occupied territories and back beyond the 1967 borders.
4. 1,2,3. It depnds on the individual act. It's basically irrelevant. I was simply making the point.
5. Yep.
Phew...glad to hear you're getting some benefit out of them.
Are you sure? You grouped Palestinian acts into this statement regarding victimization: "It does not refer to a particular, single act of violence."
They do when those "intermittant" and "infrequent" acts happen across an entire country, affecting a large number of people, and carry with them a threat of destruction to all who live within certain borders.
I would certainly regard those nations as victims of those groups, and vice versa.
No. We didn't ever feel victimized. These acts of violence occured on the news and in the newspapers. Sure, there was a certain amount of apprehension following such attacks. Just as after the attacks on the London tube network on 7/7/05 resulted in a great deal of apprehension. I was late for work that day and would have possibly been a victim if I'd been on time. However, people went back to work the next day and we carried on with our priveleged lives.
The Palestinians don't have it so easy. For them everyday is a struggle, a humiliation, and a gamble.
There just needs to be a defintative war to settle all of this. As humans, we're just not capable of letting this shit go wihtout war. Many, MANY Palestinians teach their children to hate the Jews and Israel. Think about all the Palestinian and other Arab parents who were either part of the wars in which their asses were kicked by Isreal, or their parents were involved - or they knew somebody close who was humiliated?
When their children ask about those things, their parents brainwash them. Much the same way that Americans have guilt about alot of our history. The difference here, is that our society is so transparent - it's a lot easier for us to call bullshit on rhetoric. It's alot easier for us to educate ourselves and learn unbiased truths on our own. Over there, it's all about surviving and tribalism. Those don't lend themselves to discovery or understanding - both of which are necessary for reconsillication!
Maybe you should act on your obvious humanitarian and educational instincts, and offer to spend a year in the occupied territories, where you can teach these ignorant savages the error of their ways?