Do atheists have morals?

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  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    In my view, all morality comes from God. I don't think an atheist needs to believe this in order to be moral, though. God made the atheist in his image, just as he makes the christian in his image. Plenty of atheists are good people who have strong moral fiber, but this comes from God and not from their own doing.

    Salvation is an entirely different issue.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    know1 wrote:
    This is different than believing something like knitting is a fine hobby and trying to get everyone to take it up.

    The fact is, they BELIEVE that people are going to hell if they don't have a similar belief. So what you take as pushy or annoying or whatever, they see as doing something very good for you.

    You may still find it annoying, but surely it makes a bit of sense when looked at from that angle.

    It would be like you had the cure for cancer and were the only one who knew it. Would you keep it to yourself? Would people be annoyed if you tried to give it to them?

    hmm, I thought it was wrong to push religion according to the religion.

    I'm not going to hell.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    religion is the contemplation of what happens after death. you have FAITH that you are correct and God doesn't exist. you have FAITH in this theory. your BELIEFS are that when you die; there is nothing.
    sounds like you have a lot of FAITH in your BELIEFS from your posts.

    Uh. No.

    See, it's like this, there is no reason for me to believe in God, there is no evidence, so I don't. It's a lack of belief. I believe it's called disbelief.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Ahnimus wrote:
    hmm, I thought it was wrong to push religion according to the religion.

    I'm not going to hell.

    Not that I'm aware of.

    You may not believe you are going to hell, but someone who is religious believes that you are (or whatever iteration that particular denomination, sect or religion believes). Therefore, the point is they are trying to do something good for you even if you see it differently.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    In my view, all morality comes from God. I don't think an atheist needs to believe this in order to be moral, though. God made the atheist in his image, just as he makes the christian in his image. Plenty of atheists are good people who have strong moral fiber, but this comes from God and not from their own doing.

    Salvation is an entirely different issue.

    As a Christian you would believe that. As an atheist, I don't.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    onelongsong wrote:
    religion is the contemplation of what happens after death. you have FAITH that you are correct and God doesn't exist. you have FAITH in this theory. your BELIEFS are that when you die; there is nothing.
    sounds like you have a lot of FAITH in your BELIEFS from your posts.

    I would agree with you. Atheists have faith in reason, but that is all they have faith in. They deny the possibility that what is not reasonable to them could exist.

    The essence of God is beyond the reason of man; therefore, atheists will never know Him because they have faith in nothing but the reason of man.

    This level of pride in man's reason is incredibly interesting to me. How can one be so proud of knowing so little about the universe?
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    know1 wrote:
    Not that I'm aware of.

    You may not believe you are going to hell, but someone who is religious believes that you are (or whatever iteration that particular denomination, sect or religion believes). Therefore, the point is they are trying to do something good for you even if you see it differently.

    That's why they have churches to sell stuff like that.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    I would agree with you. Atheists have faith in reason, but that is all they have faith in. They deny the possibility that what is not reasonable to them could exist.

    The essence of God is beyond the reason of man; therefore, atheists will never know Him because they have faith in nothing but the reason of man.

    This level of pride in man's reason is incredibly interesting to me. How can one be so proud of knowing so little about the universe?

    First Cause is a reason for God. People come to God by their own reason, the same way others come to no God.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    It's ok to believe something. It's something else to project that belief.

    I can think "Gee, atheism is the only answer, everyone else is just being dumb."

    But to actually tell that to a Christian or a Muslim, that's a different story.

    it seems that a lot of people here are PREACHING about athiesm.
    when you state your opinion about athiesm; it is no different than someone stating their opinion about God.
    are you proposing that only athiests are allowed to express their opinion?
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    it seems that a lot of people here are PREACHING about athiesm.
    when you state your opinion about athiesm; it is no different than someone stating their opinion about God.
    are you proposing that only athiests are allowed to express their opinion?

    I'm not preaching Atheism. I'm just defending my right to morals without God.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    I would agree with you. Atheists have faith in reason, but that is all they have faith in. They deny the possibility that what is not reasonable to them could exist.

    The essence of God is beyond the reason of man; therefore, atheists will never know Him because they have faith in nothing but the reason of man.

    This level of pride in man's reason is incredibly interesting to me. How can one be so proud of knowing so little about the universe?

    we agree a little here. i cannot see or hold the wind yet i believe it exists because of the reaction it causes with other forces of nature.
    i can believe God exists even though i cannot see or hold him because of the reaction he/she causes with other forces of nature. that force being the belief 87% of man has and has had on her/his existence for thousands of years.
    did i express that right?
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I'm not preaching Atheism. I'm just defending my right to morals without God.

    as a catholic may defend their right to believe? if you state examples of your morals; i will reference them to their roots in religion.
    do your morals dictate that you should not steal? the root of this morality is religiously based.
    do your morals dictate you should not kill? my answer is the same.

    i believe that if one believes that there is nothingness after death; that's what you will receive upon death. if you believe there is life after death; you will receive life after death.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    we agree a little here. i cannot see or hold the wind yet i believe it exists because of the reaction it causes with other forces of nature.
    i can believe God exists even though i cannot see or hold him because of the reaction he/she causes with other forces of nature. that force being the belief 87% of man has and has had on her/his existence for thousands of years.
    did i express that right?

    What about stuff that people widely believe that isn't true?

    That logic serves to negate Christianity by the existence of Islam. Far more people world-wide are Muslims than Christians.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    as a catholic may defend their right to believe? if you state examples of your morals; i will reference them to their roots in religion.
    do your morals dictate that you should not steal? the root of this morality is religiously based.
    do your morals dictate you should not kill? my answer is the same.

    i believe that if one believes that there is nothingness after death; that's what you will receive upon death. if you believe there is life after death; you will receive life after death.

    If people needed religious morality to not kill. Our species would not have existed long enough for Jesus to be born.

    I do not kill simply because I do not want to be killed. The same reason I don't steal. I recognize all humans as being equal value and therefor my need is no greater than any other's. It's pretty straight forward logic.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    CorporateWhore wrote:
    I would agree with you. Atheists have faith in reason, but that is all they have faith in. They deny the possibility that what is not reasonable to them could exist.

    The essence of God is beyond the reason of man; therefore, atheists will never know Him because they have faith in nothing but the reason of man.

    This level of pride in man's reason is incredibly interesting to me. How can one be so proud of knowing so little about the universe?

    why do you say that 'the essence of God' is beyond the reason of Man? why is that believers say this so often. why do they tell me that i just don't understand or can not comprehend God? that God is beyond comprehension and therefore i must have faith. that all i need to do is give myself over to the possibility and have faith in God. that just sounds an awful like hope.
    but i guess you're correct in a way cause in order to give yourself over to any faith one must be at least willing to abandon all logic and scientific reasoning.
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  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    If people needed religious morality to not kill. Our species would not have existed long enough for Jesus to be born.

    I do not kill simply because I do not want to be killed. The same reason I don't steal. I recognize all humans as being equal value and therefor my need is no greater than any other's. It's pretty straight forward logic.

    but people do kill and we still exist. every lifeform kills and is killed. it is primal instinct. the genes that we share with all other life (which darwin basis his theory) are the three basic necessities of life.
    1) eat
    2) protect itself from preditors
    3) reproduction
    if you do not kill; you are going against primal instincts which goes beyond simple logic.
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    chopitdown wrote:
    It's usually more of a self centered morality rather than an external morality based system.

    I disagree.
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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    but people do kill and we still exist. every lifeform kills and is killed. it is primal instinct. the genes that we share with all other life (which darwin basis his theory) are the three basic necessities of life.
    1) eat
    2) protect itself from preditors
    3) reproduction
    if you do not kill; you are going against primal instincts which goes beyond simple logic.

    Animals kill for very specific reasons. Not just for fun.

    There has been plenty of killing by people that are Christians or follow other religions. Only 1% of the jail population in the USA are Atheists. Only 10% of the USA population are Atheists. The morals of religion don't even work for religious people. People get their morals from experience, not religion.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    onelongsong wrote:
    athiesm is a form of religion. a true athiest is indifferent to God which means God does not enter your thoughts. if so; why are you talking about God? a catholic may not believe in allah. this only means his beliefs are different. satanism is a religion too. if you don't believe in God; that is your belief; which makes it a religion.

    Atheism is not a form of religion.

    I don't belief in god. You see it as this:

    There's a concept 'god' and I choose not to believe in it. (at least that's what I think, correct me if I'm wrong)

    I see it as this:

    There is nothing. So there's nothing to belief in or even to deny.

    However, people believe in god and I think it's very interesting, I'm interested in why they believe, what exactly it is they believe. Some interpretations of god are very beautiful, my teacher was a believer and he told me stories about when he saw god in flowers, children laughing... very beautifully told... But I don't have it ...
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  • Perceptual
    Perceptual Posts: 200
    I have been an Athiest all my life, despite my mother being a devout christian (although she probably wouldn't call it that) and also having to go to church during my pre-teen years. I do not believe in god, never have and never will. Now, becuase I never accepted faith within the lord, I am supposed to be a morality-drained heathen? I think not.
    I would die to save my friends. I would give my life in order to save a complete stranger. I don't lie, I don't cheat on people, I've never stolen anything in my life, I don't drink alcohol and I am not quick to anger in any situation. I have a very moralistic view of relationships, and I am unprejudiced toward any person, regardless of anything. I don't judge people for their actions and I don't talk down to people. I've never met a person in my life with whom I didn't get along.
    The only thing I don't tolerate is religious people trying to push their beliefs on me, and that is exactly what these people are trying to do, push you to accept a doctrine that you don't believe. (Reference to the intial post that started this thread.) People who have their religious beliefs and discuss them with those who are interested are fine by me, as long as they don't feel they have to convert me, or 'save' my soul from eternal damnation. There is no such thing as an afterlife. This one is all we get.
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