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Do atheists have morals?

Restless SoulRestless Soul Posts: 805
edited December 2006 in A Moving Train
I just spoke with someone from a scout organisation who told me they don't accept people with no faith as "they don't have morals". Personally I think this is discriminatory and totally bullshit because who are faith-based people to say they are the only ones with morals?

Personally whenever I see a “religious-ista” coming I run a mile because I don’t trust them, or any possible agenda they might have. Religions might have a moral code to live by but anyone can have that. You don’t have to be religious. Why can’t people see the difference!!

/rant.

Sorry, had to vent!
"We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan
---
London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
London, Wembley, 1996
London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
London, O2, 18 August 2009
London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
London, O2, 18 June 2018
London, O2, 17 July 2018
Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 09 June 2019
Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 10 June 2019



Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Sartre - Existentialism is a humanism

    http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/sartre/works/exist/sartre.htm

    The Basis of Morality:
    Scientific Vs. Religious Explanations

    http://www.theharbinger.org/articles/rel_sci/madigan.html
  • harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    Atheists, who do not believe in God, do not have morals.

    Penguins, who cannot fly, do not have wings; indeed, they are not even birds. :D
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

    - the great Sir Leo Harrison
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Restless Soul wrote:
    I just spoke with someone from a scout organisation who told me they don't accept people with no faith as "they don't have morals". Personally I think this is discriminatory and totally bullshit because who are faith-based people to say they are the only ones with morals?

    Personally whenever I see a “religious-ista” coming I run a mile because I don’t trust them, or any possible agenda they might have. Religions might have a moral code to live by but anyone can have that. You don’t have to be religious. Why can’t people see the difference!!

    /rant.

    Sorry, had to vent!

    you think it's totally bullshit? imagine how i as an atheist think. :)
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    No, atheists don't have any morals. We have no way of telling right from wrong. People must have a book of rules and strange stories telling them what they should and shouldn't do.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Dino283Dino283 Posts: 81
    Restless Soul wrote:
    I just spoke with someone from a scout organisation who told me they don't accept people with no faith as "they don't have morals". Personally I think this is discriminatory and totally bullshit because who are faith-based people to say they are the only ones with morals?

    Personally whenever I see a “religious-ista” coming I run a mile because I don’t trust them, or any possible agenda they might have. Religions might have a moral code to live by but anyone can have that. You don’t have to be religious. Why can’t people see the difference!!

    /rant.

    Sorry, had to vent!
    people who beleive in God have more moeal's then people who dont.not that athist's are souless and shit.but there mainly jus doin it to be considerd "cool".


    i bet that they really beleive in god too.it is just a fashion state ment,no bullshit
    I’d thank my lucky stars,
    to be livin here today.
    ‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
    and they can’t take that away.

    And I’m proud to be an American,
    where at least I know I’m free.
    And I wont forget the men who died,
    who gave that right to me.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Dino283 wrote:
    people who beleive in God have more moeal's then people who dont.not that athist's are souless and shit.but there mainly jus doin it to be considerd "cool".


    i bet that they really beleive in god too.it is just a fashion state ment,no bullshit

    You're a man out of time Dino! You should have been born 100 or 150 years ago. You could then have put Schopenhauer, Nietzsche and Sartre in their places!
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Dino283 wrote:
    people who beleive in God have more moeal's then people who dont.not that athist's are souless and shit.but there mainly jus doin it to be considerd "cool".


    i bet that they really beleive in god too.it is just a fashion state ment,no bullshit


    if they believed in god but denied him to look 'cool' <i can imagine you sounding like that guy in fear & loathing in las vegas>...well, doesn't that seem a bit contradictory? but what am i saying? not like a lot of religious ppl aren't contradictory in how they pick and choose which parts of the bible they believe in <or which parts they are told to believe in> and how they treat others and the planet...
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • Restless SoulRestless Soul Posts: 805
    harmless_little_f*** wrote:
    Atheists, who do not believe in God, do not have morals.

    Penguins, who cannot fly, do not have wings; indeed, they are not even birds. :D

    Your analogy is a bit off I'm afraid! I mean, are you equating “wings” with “god” somehow? What is the connection? Wings are not something a penguin has to believe in, its just there, physically, whether they use it or not. Can’t say the same about God though can you? There is no proof that he/she/it even exists, physically or otherwise!
    "We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan
    ---
    London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
    London, Wembley, 1996
    London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
    London, O2, 18 August 2009
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
    Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
    London, O2, 18 June 2018
    London, O2, 17 July 2018
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 09 June 2019
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 10 June 2019



  • Dino283Dino283 Posts: 81
    El_Kabong wrote:
    if they believed in god but denied him to look 'cool' <i can imagine you sounding like that guy in fear & loathing in las vegas>...well, doesn't that seem a bit contradictory? but what am i saying? not like a lot of religious ppl aren't contradictory in how they pick and choose which parts of the bible they believe in <or which parts they are told to believe in> and how they treat others and the planet...
    what the hell is fear an loathing?is that a movie or a casino??? !!!! sorry i never been to nevada man
    I’d thank my lucky stars,
    to be livin here today.
    ‘Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
    and they can’t take that away.

    And I’m proud to be an American,
    where at least I know I’m free.
    And I wont forget the men who died,
    who gave that right to me.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Dino283 wrote:
    what the hell is fear an loathing?is that a movie or a casino??? !!!! sorry i never been to nevada man


    it was a book that was later turned into a movie directed by terry gilliam
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • Restless SoulRestless Soul Posts: 805
    catefrances wrote:
    you think it's totally bullshit? imagine how i as an atheist think. :)


    I can imagine! And I'm supposed to be a hindu as well! lol
    "We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan
    ---
    London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
    London, Wembley, 1996
    London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
    London, O2, 18 August 2009
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
    Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
    London, O2, 18 June 2018
    London, O2, 17 July 2018
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 09 June 2019
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 10 June 2019



  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Dino283 wrote:
    people who beleive in God have more moeal's then people who dont.not that athist's are souless and shit.but there mainly jus doin it to be considerd "cool".


    i bet that they really beleive in god too.it is just a fashion state ment,no bullshit

    well i never have really been one to follow fashion. not since that whole 80s debacle. and i have been an atheist since i was 11 years old. so trust me when i say I do not believe in God.
    and in all honesty i believe i have more morals than a lot of people who choose to believe in a God. the person i have to answer to lives inside my skin and therefore my code to be able to live with myself is higher than anything on this earth or extra terrestrial.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Everyone has their own set of individual morality. Why is that hard to grasp? It shouldn't even be a discussion.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • benjsbenjs Posts: 9,151
    Morals are distributed by society and reinforced by religion in my opinion. I consider myself an atheist, however, I was raised Jewish, and look to the Torah and I can extract the values out of this religion. A book is a book is a book.... the only difference is that the reinforcement can sometimes be gone. I think it's fair to say perhaps people who do not get exposure to any sort of other culture, anyone but atheists all their lives, could maybe have less of a sense of morals than someone else, however, no one can live their life like this! All in all, I disagree. The only difference is that the morals are harder to find, as society's morals seem to be covered up by society's mistakes. That's just my opinion though, people can disregard it if they want :)
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Restless SoulRestless Soul Posts: 805
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Sartre - Existentialism is a humanism

    http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/sartre/works/exist/sartre.htm

    The Basis of Morality:
    Scientific Vs. Religious Explanations

    http://www.theharbinger.org/articles/rel_sci/madigan.html

    thanks for the links - will peruse them when I get home. Am at work at the moment, procrastinating! (I know, I have no morals!)
    "We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan
    ---
    London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
    London, Wembley, 1996
    London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
    London, O2, 18 August 2009
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
    Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
    London, O2, 18 June 2018
    London, O2, 17 July 2018
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 09 June 2019
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 10 June 2019



  • Restless SoulRestless Soul Posts: 805
    Dino283 wrote:
    people who beleive in God have more moeal's then people who dont.not that athist's are souless and shit.but there mainly jus doin it to be considerd "cool".


    i bet that they really beleive in god too.it is just a fashion state ment,no bullshit


    A fashion statement? I think you are making this up! In this day and age, with all the religious fundamentalism around, it seems to distinctly "uncool" to say you don't believe in God! I think a lot of people are being overly-religious because its "trendy". lol

    (And I know this sounds ridiculous!)
    "We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan
    ---
    London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
    London, Wembley, 1996
    London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
    London, O2, 18 August 2009
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
    Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
    London, O2, 18 June 2018
    London, O2, 17 July 2018
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 09 June 2019
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 10 June 2019



  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    Yes, atheists have morals.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • Restless SoulRestless Soul Posts: 805
    know1 wrote:
    Everyone has their own set of individual morality. Why is that hard to grasp? It shouldn't even be a discussion.


    I agree. But certain organisations are using it as a basis for discrimination.

    To be honest, I'm surprised this is like the third statement I've heard from you Know1 that I've agreed with on this board! I always used to think of you as my polar opposite! :D
    "We have to change the concept of patriotism to one of “matriotism” — love of humanity that transcends war. A matriarch would never send her own children off to wars that kill other people’s children." Cindy Sheehan
    ---
    London, Brixton, 14 July 1993
    London, Wembley, 1996
    London, Wembley, 18 June 2007
    London, O2, 18 August 2009
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 31 July 2012
    Milton Keynes Bowl, 11 July 2014
    London, Hammersmith Apollo (Ed solo), 06 June 2017
    London, O2, 18 June 2018
    London, O2, 17 July 2018
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 09 June 2019
    Amsterdam, Afas Live (Ed solo), 10 June 2019



  • Sonja_SSonja_S Posts: 444
    Just out of interest: why are people who don't belong to any religious group automatically labelled atheists? If I have to fill out 'religion' in a form, I have to write 'oB' (ohne Bekenntnis, meaning no confession), but who says I don't believe in anything just because I'm opposed to organised religion? I may be borderline agnostic, but I am no atheist.

    As for morals: the Catholic church never stopped cashing in the church tax Hitler invented. How moral is that?
    You can tell a man from what he has to say - Neil & Tim Finn
    They love you so badly for sharing their sorrow, so pick up that guitar and go break a heart - Kris Kristofferson
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Restless Soul wrote:
    I agree. But certain organisations are using it as a basis for discrimination.

    To be honest, I'm surprised this is like the third statement I've heard from you Know1 that I've agreed with on this board! I always used to think of you as my polar opposite! :D

    I don't agree with using it as a basis for excluding a group from participation. I believe we should judge everyone individually.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • audiodaveaudiodave Posts: 1,623
    Now I remember why I don't visit this board very often, it makes me angry.

    I don't believe in God, how does that equate to having no morals? I was raised by my parents to have my own sense of what is right and what is wrong, and compared to most people I know, I have just as much, if not more, "morals".

    I believe very strongly about some things being right and some things being wrong. Because I have come to this decision without the help of some sort of religion...I have no morals?
    ~AKA Dave-of-the-dead~

    I don't wanna think, I wanna feel

    Dublin 23/08/06 Lisbon I 04/09/06 Lisbon II 05/09/06 Paris 11/09/06 Verona 16/09/06

    London 18/06/07 Dusseldorf 21/06/07 Copenhagen 26/06/07 Nijmegen 28/06/07
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    audiodave wrote:
    Now I remember why I don't visit this board very often, it makes me angry.

    I don't believe in God, how does that equate to having no morals? I was raised by my parents to have my own sense of what is right and what is wrong, and compared to most people I know, I have just as much, if not more, "morals".

    I believe very strongly about some things being right and some things being wrong. Because I have come to this decision without the help of some sort of religion...I have no morals?

    that's correct dave, people like you and i have no internal barometer for distinguishing between right and wrong. we covet our neighbours' husband or wife or both and by the light of the full moon, sacrifice live chickens to our atheist overlord. :D
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • audiodaveaudiodave Posts: 1,623
    catefrances wrote:
    that's correct dave, people like you and i have no internal barometer for distinguishing between right and wrong. we covet our neighbours' husband or wife or both and by the light of the full moon, sacrifice live chickens to our atheist overlord. :D

    Don't TELL everyone!

    Quick, they're on to us...RUN!
    ~AKA Dave-of-the-dead~

    I don't wanna think, I wanna feel

    Dublin 23/08/06 Lisbon I 04/09/06 Lisbon II 05/09/06 Paris 11/09/06 Verona 16/09/06

    London 18/06/07 Dusseldorf 21/06/07 Copenhagen 26/06/07 Nijmegen 28/06/07
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    know1 wrote:
    Everyone has their own set of individual morality. Why is that hard to grasp? It shouldn't even be a discussion.

    Well said. It is a bit norrow-minded for certain religious individuals to believe that only those that share their beliefs have morals. Look at Congressman Foley and, shit I forgot hisname, the head of that Evangilical group. Both men may have claimed to be of a higher moral standing becauseof their belief in God, but their actions certainly did not reflect their preaching. I don't believe in the Christian interpretation of God, but I don't have to read a book and go to mass every sunday to realize what is right and what is wrong.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • yosi1yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    Now, I happen to agree that this is bullshit, but is it possible that this is just semantical? If someone could answer, what is the difference between ethics and morality? Is it possible that morality only applies to religion, while ethics can apply to religion and not to religion? Again, if that's the case, then its totally semantical. And I don't really understand why someone who didn't believe in God couldn't have morals.

    Edit: I just looked it up in Merriam-Webster, and there seems to be nothing about religion. So, then I really don't why an atheist wouldn't have morals. If they can make moral judgements (deciphering between right and wrong) than how do they have no morals?
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    yosi wrote:
    Now, I happen to agree that this is bullshit, but is it possible that this is just semantical? If someone could answer, what is the difference between ethics and morality? Is it possible that morality only applies to religion, while ethics can apply to religion and not to religion? Again, if that's the case, then its totally semantical. And I don't really understand why someone who didn't believe in God couldn't have morals.

    Ethics is what you call the study of what is morally right and what is morally wrong.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • yosi1yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    Collin wrote:
    Ethics is what you call the study of what is morally right and what is morally wrong.

    Thanks. I saw that on m-w.com. But again thanks. Its a bit confusing because they're so intertwined.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    yosi wrote:
    Thanks. I saw that on m-w.com. But again thanks. Its a bit confusing because they're so intertwined.

    I didn't see that you edited your post. But indeed it is confusing... when my teacher tried to explain it, she got confused as well.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • yosi1yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    Collin wrote:
    I didn't see that you edited your post. But indeed it is confusing... when my teacher tried to explain it, she got confused as well.

    Mine just said look it up. :rolleyes:
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    By studying personality type (Myers Briggs) I was taught that "ethics" is more of an intellectional, rational look at values. For example, what is objectively "fair" and what works, and what is not or does not. Whereas "morals" are more based on one's personal subjective value system, which is more about what feels "right" to the individual.

    Also, personality typing makes it clear that each person has their own moral values system, athiest or not. Even within religion and matters of faith, clearly there are HUGE ranges of just what one's values are. For example, a Christian might hold themselves to the standard of the ten commandments and atone for "wrongdoing", and yet another Christian might flagrantly break the commandments and justify such "wrongs" even resorting to using biblical text.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
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