Do atheists have morals?

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Comments

  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    macgyver06 wrote:
    people say they belive just like people say they are republicans...

    anyone can say anything..
    How does that pertain to ethics?
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    http://philosophy.lander.edu/ethics/types.html

    morals isnt exactly ethics...i think this is the confusion here
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    macgyver06 wrote:
    http://philosophy.lander.edu/ethics/types.html

    morals isnt exactly ethics...i think this is the confusion here

    Do you still say "getting" someone to believe in God is unethical?
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

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  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    macgyver06 wrote:
    http://philosophy.lander.edu/ethics/types.html

    morals isnt exactly ethics...i think this is the confusion here
    Exactly, although one does play a huge role on the basics of the other. Expecially when the argument isn't a moral argument, but rather an argument about the foundation of morals.
  • chopitdown
    chopitdown Posts: 2,222
    sure they hvae morals. They may not exactly mirror other peoples morals but to say that atheists don't have morals would be a reach...they just don't have the same source of morals as other people. It's usually more of a self centered morality rather than an external morality based system.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • yosi1
    yosi1 Posts: 3,272
    PJPOWER wrote:
    Because a person that believes logic can be defied by a higher power has no legitimate reason to try and prove the existance of the higher power using a logical debate. It would end up in a conflict of beliefs. In the Christian religion, it would be blasphemous to even accept the possibility that God does not exist.............and what is the point in debating the existance of god if you are not willing to accept the possibility that God does not exist?
    I'm not talking about Christianity. Just because it may be paradoxical doesn't make it unethical. If I believe in God, I can still debate with someone who doesn't believe in God. How is that unethical? In fact, why could someone not view it as very ethical, that way both sides can present arguments of their own, and choose what makes most sense to them (logic vs. faith). I don't see this as an issue of "ethics". Just contradictory beliefs.
    you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane.
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    chopitdown wrote:
    sure they hvae morals. ... It's usually more of a self centered morality rather than an external morality based system.

    What do you mean by this statement?
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    puremagic wrote:
    chopitdown wrote:
    sure they hvae morals. ... It's usually more of a self centered morality rather than an external morality based system.
    What do you mean by this statement?

    I've been reading, lately about levels of consciousness and most athiests I know, including the ones on this board, fit what chopitdown is saying here. Although I would certainly question his wording, too. The idea is that there are three basic stages of morality: premoral, moral, and post-moral. Premoral is where the individual is egocentered and does not have a defined morality regarding others. In the "moral" stage, the individual is very centered in the morality that is defined for them from around them from culture, religion, society, etc. In the post-moral or amoral stage one has moved beyond the stages of having no morals, and also beyond having morals defined for them, into a phase of integration and being able to decide for themselves what is and is not moral. And according to Maslow's category of self-actualized people, they also define their own morality, rather than follow the morality predefined from around them, so this is considered a sign of advancement, actually.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    I am atheist. I have morals. I don't think they are egocentric.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • macgyver06
    macgyver06 Posts: 2,500
    angelica wrote:
    Do you still say "getting" someone to believe in God is unethical?

    lol.. i never said this..

    i said getting EVERYONE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD.

    EVERYONE

    ...oh...EVERYONE

    is both UNETHICAL...and the motives behind it could very well be NOT MORAL

    i think immoral :) so i just put not moral
  • luxpjamer
    luxpjamer Posts: 837
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    No, atheists don't have any morals. We have no way of telling right from wrong. People must have a book of rules and strange stories telling them what they should and shouldn't do.
    I think we should have to burn. Man, We're really a piece of shit. It's true I really need to read in a book in wich way I have to live my life. But imagine that I worship God and at the final judgement day there's allah who punish me for bigotrie, fuck.... I choose to live my life as I want it. Humanism, tolerance, socialism, LOVE...
    Beavis : Is this Pearl Jam?
    Butt-head: This guy makes faces like Eddie Vedder.
    Beavis: No, Eddie Vedder makes faces like this guy.
    Butt-head: I heard these guys, like, came first and Pearl Jam ripped them off.
    Beavis: No, Pearl Jam came first.
    Butt-head: Well, they both suck.
  • luxpjamer
    luxpjamer Posts: 837
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I am atheist. I have morals. I don't think they are egocentric.
    Yes. I am not against it when someone believes in something. Don't want to tell someone what he as to believe.
    Beavis : Is this Pearl Jam?
    Butt-head: This guy makes faces like Eddie Vedder.
    Beavis: No, Eddie Vedder makes faces like this guy.
    Butt-head: I heard these guys, like, came first and Pearl Jam ripped them off.
    Beavis: No, Pearl Jam came first.
    Butt-head: Well, they both suck.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Restless Soul wrote:
    I just spoke with someone from a scout organisation who told me they don't accept people with no faith as "they don't have morals". Personally I think this is discriminatory and totally bullshit because who are faith-based people to say they are the only ones with morals?

    Personally whenever I see a “religious-ista” coming I run a mile because I don’t trust them, or any possible agenda they might have. Religions might have a moral code to live by but anyone can have that. You don’t have to be religious. Why can’t people see the difference!!

    /rant.

    Sorry, had to vent!

    morals are actually religiously based. an athiest has a sense of right and wrong and also law. law is moral based from religion.
    Jesus personally asked only 3 things from us. the rest is mans' words.
    1) honor my father.
    2) love thy neighbour as you love yourself.
    3) take care of my children.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    morals are actually religiously based. an athiest has a sense of right and wrong and also law. law is moral based from religion.
    Jesus personally asked only 3 things from us. the rest is mans' words.
    1) honor my father.
    2) love thy neighbour as you love yourself.
    3) take care of my children.

    My morals aren't religiously based. One of my morals is regarding religion. I don't tell people "Some day you will realize the truth and will become atheist." However, just about every Christian I know says "Some day you will realize the truth and recognize God as the creator." Which is demeaning and bigoted to say the least.

    People say this crap all the time about how some day everyone else will become as enlightened as they are. I may let a statement like this slip once in a while, but I don't honestly believe that I am anymore enlightened than the next person. We just have different knowledge. While I recognize some of the underlying mechanics of reality, others claim they are more enlightened because they don't think it can be reduced. This is to say that what I know is meaningless.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    My morals aren't religiously based. One of my morals is regarding religion. I don't tell people "Some day you will realize the truth and will become atheist." However, just about every Christian I know says "Some day you will realize the truth and recognize God as the creator." Which is demeaning and bigoted to say the least.

    People say this crap all the time about how some day everyone else will become as enlightened as they are. I may let a statement like this slip once in a while, but I don't honestly believe that I am anymore enlightened than the next person. We just have different knowledge. While I recognize some of the underlying mechanics of reality, others claim they are more enlightened because they don't think it can be reduced. This is to say that what I know is meaningless.

    athiesm is a form of religion. a true athiest is indifferent to God which means God does not enter your thoughts. if so; why are you talking about God? a catholic may not believe in allah. this only means his beliefs are different. satanism is a religion too. if you don't believe in God; that is your belief; which makes it a religion.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Ahnimus wrote:
    My morals aren't religiously based. One of my morals is regarding religion. I don't tell people "Some day you will realize the truth and will become atheist." However, just about every Christian I know says "Some day you will realize the truth and recognize God as the creator." Which is demeaning and bigoted to say the least.

    I don't see it as demeaning and bigoted.

    You see, God is something these people truly believe in. As a result, they believe God to be true and for God to be true it means that all creatures will one day recognize God as such. If they didn't think it were so, they wouldn't believe it.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    athiesm is a form of religion. a true athiest is indifferent to God which means God does not enter your thoughts. if so; why are you talking about God? a catholic may not believe in allah. this only means his beliefs are different. satanism is a religion too. if you don't believe in God; that is your belief; which makes it a religion.

    Umm, Atheism is not a religion.

    Religion requires faith.

    God and Allah are the same.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    know1 wrote:
    I don't see it as demeaning and bigoted.

    You see, God is something these people truly believe in. As a result, they believe God to be true and for God to be true it means that all creatures will one day recognize God as such. If they didn't think it were so, they wouldn't believe it.

    It's ok to believe something. It's something else to project that belief.

    I can think "Gee, atheism is the only answer, everyone else is just being dumb."

    But to actually tell that to a Christian or a Muslim, that's a different story.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Ahnimus wrote:
    It's ok to believe something. It's something else to project that belief.

    I can think "Gee, atheism is the only answer, everyone else is just being dumb."

    But to actually tell that to a Christian or a Muslim, that's a different story.

    This is different than believing something like knitting is a fine hobby and trying to get everyone to take it up.

    The fact is, they BELIEVE that people are going to hell if they don't have a similar belief. So what you take as pushy or annoying or whatever, they see as doing something very good for you.

    You may still find it annoying, but surely it makes a bit of sense when looked at from that angle.

    It would be like you had the cure for cancer and were the only one who knew it. Would you keep it to yourself? Would people be annoyed if you tried to give it to them?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Umm, Atheism is not a religion.

    Religion requires faith.

    God and Allah are the same.

    religion is the contemplation of what happens after death. you have FAITH that you are correct and God doesn't exist. you have FAITH in this theory. your BELIEFS are that when you die; there is nothing.
    sounds like you have a lot of FAITH in your BELIEFS from your posts.

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