Abortion is wrong, yet I am pro choice

angelica · December 2008

scb wrote:

Wait, wait, wait... I've been trying to stay out of this one this time... and I know you're going to try to disagree with me here... but I have to note that your suggestions that "post-abortion sydrome" exists and that abortion causes breast cancer are completely FALSE, as has been proven repeatedly by scientific medical studies, and as I have pointed out on numerous occassions. (I'm aware that you didn't directly make these accusations, but I think they were implied in your post.)

This is why they say a little knowledge is dangerous.

While people are saying there are minimal complications after abortion, there are real websites online that non-judgmentally support women who have had abortions, and who in fact are experiencing these symptoms. Denial of their experiences, their views, and their symptoms, as I implied earlier, further 'victimizes' them due to our current "socially acceptable" views on abortion.

People pick and choose what they believe--scientists, too, who are highly influenced by the politics of who hires, supports and funds them. The consequences after abortion go far beyond breast cancer...they are linked to all kinds of issues...as has been written up in all kinds of medical publications.

When you are open to seek the truth rather than to support your own agenda, you will be open to what these girls who are having abortions are saying about the torment they are experiencing.

"I'm still in agony. Every day is just a struggle. I cried every single day for eight months. I've been crying for the past two hours. I went into an internet sight that shows pictures of aborted fetuses. My baby was 6 weeks old... He had a heart and eyes and a spine. Sometimes I'll be going about my day and I'll have a flashback. I did not go to sleep during the abortion. I remember everything in vivid detail. I have no one to blame but myself. No one understands. I'm told most women go on with their lives. Maybe I'm crazy. I made the biggest mistake in my life and I can't take it back. Everyday I ache to hold my baby. I listened to the baby's father... he said it was a simply procedure... he also said he would be there for me. The counselors at the clinic told me it was just tissue. I am 30 years old. I should have had my baby. I listened to all the reasons why I shouldn't have. And the world looks so different. I walk around in a daze.

"Not a single day goes by that I don't think about my child, that I killed. I am constantly reminded that I should have two children with me, not one. These are things that the pro-abortionist don't tell you. They don't tell you that you will live the rest of your life with extreme guilt, knowing that you aborted your own child. They don't tell you that you will miss this child every day of your life. They want you to believe that it is an easy fix to a very complicated problem."

"After the process I was so depressed and failed every one of my classes and suffered from PASS. ...I still suffer sometimes more than others, I cant shake the guilt and the feeling that I'm a terrible person and that it was all my fault.
"

"...Im so ashamed of what I did. Now all I want to do is get pregnant again, even though I know Im not really ready for a baby. I often feel very scared that Im going to be punished for what I did, everytime my boyfriend is late home, I start freaking out thinking he's been killed in a car crash or something, I feel like a mad woman but I can't help it, I feel like Im just waiting for the day for my punishment to come and it scares me to death. Im so selfish and i hate myself so much.

"i never forgave myself for not giving my child a chance. I know at 14 i wouldn't have made a fit mother, but i could have adopted chosen something that wouldn't leave me with the guilt and shame that i have carried for the last 8 yrs. I miss my child, and i miss the child i was before i had to make such an adult choice.. I love you dream, please forgive that 14yr old girl who decided your fate. she was weak and at your expense. I'm so sorry little girls..

"They don't deserve to die that way. That is just my opinion, I don't judge other women for there views, we're all human anyway. We all make mistakes. This is how I see it from my own experiences. I know God has forgiven me for what I did. I have just begun to forgive myself. I pray every chance I get. I pray that when I die I will see the baby I let go. I want the opportunity to say I sorry to my child. Oneday I will tell my 3 children about the brother or sister they have in heaven. I still wonder what the baby would have looked like. I have made peace with everything. Sometimes I doubt that however. It is all apart of me, apart I don't like but a part none the less.

these are mere excerpts from 3 pages of women's stories, out of 12 pages!!

http://www.afterabortion.com/pmdd.html
http://www.afterabortion.com/faq.html
http://www.afterabortion.com/sharing.html#1

'What we have discovered is that if a woman is having persistent trouble with guilt, or sadness after her abortion, or if she is suffering from PASS, part of the problem may be that she feels as if the pregnancy was a 'potential baby', and now that the pregnancy has ended, she is suffering from pregnancy loss feelings, just as if she had lost a baby through a miscarriage.

She may also be going through guilt, because she feels 'responsible' for ending the pregnancy, and ending what might have become an infant, if she had not interrupted the pregnancy. But because of the social stigma of abortion, she has no way to express these feelings of grief and loss. Plus, if she mentioned to anyone in real life that she'd had an abortion, and now was suffering from guilt and sadness over the loss of the potential baby, she'd most likely be given unhelpful responses such as:
"Well why did you have an abortion, if you wanted it?" '

angelica · December 2008

The truth of the matter is that a large number of women have abortions. And the truth is that many of these women do see the fetus as a child. They see this "procedure" as killing a baby. These women have been conditioned to dream of someday having babies.

To minimize the context of who these women are, and what they go through, for the sake of pushing an agenda here, rather than acknowledging the truth, is the true shame....

angelica · December 2008

-Approximately 14% of women who have an abortion will miscarry a future pregnancy, and that risk increases to 200% with multiple abortions.
.....Journal of the American Medical Association, Vol. 243, (1980) pp 2495-2499.

-A teenage girl is 10 times more likely to attempt suicide if she has had an abortion in the last six months.
.....Garfinkel, et.al., Stress Depression, and Suicide: A Study of Adolescents in Minnesota, Minneapolis University of Minnesota Extension Services 1986.

-A survey of post-abortive women found that:
28% attempted suicide
31% experienced suicidal feelings
60% commented that the decision to abort made their lives worse
94% regretted the decision to abort
....."Survey of Reaction to Abortion," The Post Abortion Review, Fall 1994, pp. 6-8.

-After abortion, 24% of women experience complications with later pregnancies. These include excessive bleeding, premature delivery, cervical incompetence or rupture of the placenta.
.....Acta/Obstetrics and Gynecology Scandinavia, Vol. 58 (1979), pp. 491-494, American Journal of Obs/Gyn Vol. 141 (1981), pp.769-772 and Vol. 146 (1983), pp.136-140.

-Women who abort are nearly four times more likely to start abusing alcohol or drugs.
....."New Study Confirms Link Between Abortion and Substance Abuse," The Post Abortion Review, Vol. 1 No. 3, Fall 1993.

-Tubal (ectopic) pregnancies increase by 30% after one abortion, and by 160% after 2 or more abortions.
.....American Journal of Obs.& Gyn, Vol. 160 (1988), pp. 642-6.

-The risk of placenta previa, which produces extremely severe, life-threatening bleeding during future pregnancies, is increased by 600% after an abortion.
.....American Journal of Obs. & Gyn., Vol. 141 (1981), pp. 769-772.

-Approximately 10% of women undergoing elective abortion will suffer immediate complications. The most common complications that can occur at the time of an abortion are:
perforation of the uterus
excessive bleeding
infection
embolism
retained tissue
hemorrhage
cervical injury
endotoxic shock
"boggy" uterus
failure to recognize an ectopic pregnancy

.....Warren Hern, Abortion Practice (Philadelphia: J.B. Lippincott Company, 1990).

and so on.....

angelica · December 2008

Some sources of studies on the complications of abortion are:

- Thomas Strahan's Major Articles and Books Concerning the Detrimental Effects of Abortion
. Ashton,"They Psychosocial Outcome of Induced Abortion", British Journal of Ob&Gyn.
- "Risk of Admission to Psychiatric Institutions Among Danish Women who Experienced Induced Abortion: An Analysis on National Record Linkage,"
- "Bereavement in Post-Abortive Women: A Clinical Report", World Journal of Psychosynthesis
- The Long-Term Psychological Effects of Abortion, Portsmouth, N.H.:
- Herman, Trauma and Recovery
- Adler, "Sample Attrition in Studies of Psycho-social Sequelae of Abortion: How great a problem."
- Speckhard, "Postabortion Syndrome: An Emerging Public Health Concern," Journal of Social Issues,
- Psycho-social Stress Following Abortion
- "Predictive Factors in Emotional Response to Abortion: King's Termination Study - IV," Soc. Sci. & Med
- Psycho-social Stress Following Abortion
- "Abortion in Adolescence," Adolescence,
- "Characteristics of Pregnant Women Reporting Previous Induced Abortions," Bulletin World Health Organization,
- "Outcome of First Delivery After 2nd Trimester Two Stage Induced Abortion: A Controlled Cohort Study," Acta Obsetricia et Gynecologica
- "Association of Induced Abortion with Subsequent Pregnancy Loss," JAMA, 243:2495-2499, June 27, 1980.
- "Pregnancy Complications Following Legally Induced Abortion: An Analysis of the Population with Special Reference to Prematurity,"
- Speckhard, Psycho-social Stress Following Abortion,
- "Psychoses Following Therapeutic Abortion, Am. J. of Psychiatry
- Ritual Mourning in Anorexia Nervosa,"
- "Maternal Perinatal Risk Factors and Child Abuse,"
- "Relationship between Abortion and Child Abuse," Canadian Journal of Psychiatry,
- Aborted Women - Silent No More (Chicago: Loyola University Press, 1987), 129-30, describes a case of woman who beat her three year old son to death shortly after an abortion which triggered a "psychotic episode" of grief, guilt, and misplaced anger.
- "Contraceptive Practice and Repeat Induced Abortion: An Epidemiological Investigation," J. Biosocial Science,
- "First and Repeated Abortions: A Study of Decision-Making and Delay," J. Biosocial Science,
- "The Characteristics and Prior Contraceptive Use of U.S. Abortion Patients," Family Planning Perspectives,
- "The Abortion Experience in Private Practice," Women and Loss: Psychobiological Perspectives,
- "Predictive Factors in Emotional Response to Abortion: King's Termination Study - IV," Social Science and Medicine,
- "Emotional Distress Patterns Among Women Having First or Repeat Abortions," Obstetrics and Gynecology,

_ · December 2008

angelica wrote:

This is why they say a little knowledge is dangerous.

......
When you are open to seek the truth rather than to support your own agenda, you will be open to what these girls who are having abortions are saying about the torment they are experiencing.

That's exactly my point. Your comments are dangerous.

You are using only sources that are outdated and/or say what your agenda seeks to hear. You are not open to truth or reality.

I'm sure I've provided evidence refuting your erroneous claims in the past, but I don't have time to dig them all up right now.

Here are just a few citations from the American Cancer Society, the National Cancer Institute, and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists - all stating that ABORTION DOES NOT CAUSE BREAST CANCER. Please note that these sources are actually timely.

American Cancer Society wrote:

As of 2008, the scientific evidence does not support the notion that induced abortion raises the risk of breast cancer.

source: http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_6x_Can_Having_an_Abortion_Cause_or_Contribute_to_Breast_Cancer.asp

National Cancer Institute wrote:

Induced abortion is not associated with an increase in breast cancer risk. (Strength of Evidence = Well Established)

source: http://www.cancer.gov/cancerinfo/ere-workshop-report

American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists wrote:

early studies of the relationship between prior induced abortion and breast cancer risk have been inconsistent and are difficult to interpret because of methodologic considerations. More rigorous recent studies argue against a causal relationship between induced abortion and a subsequent increase in breast cancer risk.

source: ACOG Committee on Gynecologic Practice. ACOG Committee Opinion. Number 285, August 2003: Induced abortion and breast cancer risk. Obstet Gynecol. 2003;102:433-435.

angelica · December 2008

scb wrote:

That's exactly my point. Your comments are dangerous.

You are using only sources that are outdated and/or say what your agenda seeks to hear. You are not open to truth or reality.

I'm sure I've provided evidence refuting your erroneous claims in the past, but I don't have time to dig them all up right now.

Here are just a few citations from the American Cancer Society, the National Cancer Institute, and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists - all stating that ABORTION DOES NOT CAUSE BREAST CANCER. Please note that these sources are actually timely.

source: http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_6x_Can_Having_an_Abortion_Cause_or_Contribute_to_Breast_Cancer.asp

source: http://www.cancer.gov/cancerinfo/ere-workshop-report

source: ACOG Committee on Gynecologic Practice. ACOG Committee Opinion. Number 285, August 2003: Induced abortion and breast cancer risk. Obstet Gynecol. 2003;102:433-435.

now there are only about 20 other issues that stand regarding complications of abortion.

And all the negative personal experiences of the women who....have had negative personal experiences, post abortion.

The things is, the personal experience/truth of an individual cannot be effectively minimized.

It sounds like breast cancer is the only issue you are disputing in terms of science...

Anyone who has read the links I shared about the political nature of any post-abortion syndrome pertaining to why the voices of these women are being squelched can understand to why the experiences of these women are being ignored, or why new studies are not being done, that would go against the social accepted view within certain professions in the current socio-polical climate.

angelica · December 2008

scb wrote:

That's exactly my point. Your comments are dangerous.

To me comments that embrace the experiences of all women, as opposed to ones that embrace only those views that support a particular political/power agenda, are much more realistic, and to the benefit of our society.

on the other hand, views that endeavor to minimize the experiences of some, for the gain of others, show they are not realistic appraisals.

Sweet Emotion · December 2008

angelica wrote:

To me comments that embrace the experiences of all women, as opposed to ones that embrace only those views that support a particular political/power agenda, are much more realistic, and to the benefit of our society.

on the other hand, views that endeavor to minimize the experiences of some, for the gain of others, show they are not realistic appraisals.

How is it realistic to embrace the experiences of all women? No 2 women have had the same experiences. That is a really broad canvas and becomes completely unworkable.
A big part of the problem is that there is little to no after care for these women. When as a society we begin to take care of our people, with compassion and caring, rather than ostracize them and push them through as product rather than acknowledge their humanity, might a lot of the negative statistics be changed.

angelica · December 2008

Sweet Emotion wrote:

How is it realistic to embrace the experiences of all women? No 2 women have had the same experiences. That is a really broad canvas and becomes completely unworkable.
A big part of the problem is that there is little to no after care for these women. When as a society we begin to take care of our people, with compassion and caring, rather than ostracize them and push them through as product rather than acknowledge their humanity, might a lot of the negative statistics be changed.

It's only realistic to embrace the experiences of all the women involved. To somehow minimize any is to ignore or deny them and practise ignorance/denial.

To hold theories that make some of these women the problem doesn't work. It's about agenda, rather than about understanding and problem-solving.

I'm all for understanding and caring for people in pain. I think aftercare is a great idea.

What I'm not for is any argument that is put on the table, that in order to stand, must undermine or minimize these women and their experience. Those arguments show that they are built on a faulty foundation of ignorance (ignoring...denial).

angelica · December 2008

Sweet Emotion wrote:

How is it realistic to embrace the experiences of all women? No 2 women have had the same experiences. That is a really broad canvas and becomes completely unworkable.

If you find it unworkable to have acceptance and compassion for the diverse and varying experiences of women who have had abortion, then maybe understanding the diversity of women who have had abortion isn't your cup of tea....

There are many who have a natural aptitude for accepting the diversity of human experience and who have no problem embracing it. And who bring practical help to these issues.

if it's a little challenging to embrace the views of all the women who have been touched, and come up with a black/white catchall theory that allows you to feel like you've got a handle on the issue, well, welcome to reality........and welcome to the world of "we've yet to work this out in any actual problem-solving capacity as of yet"......I'm talking about real solutions, here, not the ease of mind of those who want to "help".

_ · December 2008

angelica wrote:

now there are only about 20 other issues that stand regarding complications of abortion.

And all the negative personal experiences of the women who....have had negative personal experiences, post abortion.

The things is, the personal experience/truth of an individual cannot be effectively minimized.

It sounds like breast cancer is the only issue you are disputing in terms of science...

Anyone who has read the links I shared about the political nature of any post-abortion syndrome pertaining to why the voices of these women are being squelched can understand to why the experiences of these women are being ignored, or why new studies are not being done, that would go against the social accepted view within certain professions in the current socio-polical climate.

angelica wrote:

To me comments that embrace the experiences of all women, as opposed to ones that embrace only those views that support a particular political/power agenda, are much more realistic, and to the benefit of our society.

on the other hand, views that endeavor to minimize the experiences of some, for the gain of others, show they are not realistic appraisals.

Cancer is not the only issue I am disputing in terms of science. As I stated, I'm sure I have refuted your other claims in the past but don't have the time in this moment to dig up my sources except for those few on breast cancer. But we can look at each issue one by one if you want to.

Regarding "post-abortion syndrome," no one is trying to minimize any individual's personal experience/truth or squelch any woman's voice. It is YOUR views that endeavor to minimize the experience of some for the gain of others, that support your particular political/power agenda rather than embracing the experiences of all women.

You do this when you generalize the horrible experiences of the small minority of women who have abortions and try to apply it, with no scientific merit whatsoever, to abortion as a whole.

It's very sad that those women had bad experiences. But that does not make it some kind of "syndrome," nor does it make it likely that other women will feel the same way. People feel varying levels of distress over all kinds of things. But individual experiences do not necessarily translate into real medical "risk" about which women need to be warned. To suggest that they do to scared women trying to make a decision is irresponsible and dangerous.

Now, what other abortion myths can I bust for you?

angelica · December 2008

scb wrote:

Cancer is not the only issue I am disputing in terms of science. As I stated, I'm sure I have refuted your other claims in the past but don't have the time in this moment to dig up my sources except for those few on breast cancer. But we can look at each issue one by one if you want to.

If you are saying you have science backing you, feel free to stand behind that with the evidence. I've presented my back-up. pretending to have proven me wrong in the past isn't back-up. it rather indicates lack of back-up.

It is YOUR views that endeavor to minimize the experience of some for the gain of others, that support your particular political/power agenda rather than embracing the experiences of all women.

Please show me whose views I am minimizing, with my own words. Not what you read in.

Now, what other abortion myths can I bust for you?

Busting myths in your own perceptions is different than proving your perspective to be anything other than just that.

Sweet Emotion · December 2008

angelica wrote:

If you find it unworkable to have acceptance and compassion for the diverse and varying experiences of women who have had abortion, then maybe understanding the diversity of women who have had abortion isn't your cup of tea....

There are many who have a natural aptitude for accepting the diversity of human experience and who have no problem embracing it. And who bring practical help to these issues.

if it's a little challenging to embrace the views of all the women who have been touched, and come up with a black/white catchall theory that allows you to feel like you've got a handle on the issue, well, welcome to reality........and welcome to the world of "we've yet to work this out in any actual problem-solving capacity as of yet"......I'm talking about real solutions, here, not the ease of mind of those who want to "help".

I've got the greatest compassion for all of these women. Abortion is a profoundly difficult decision to make and acceptance of it perhaps more so.
A comprehensive system of aftercare would offer to embrace all of them, with their psychological needs and with their post operative health needs.
It's not a little challenging to embrace the needs of people. And, I am not looking for a catch all theory. If you actually read my post without hostility you'd have noted that I argue for the humanity of the women in defense of that care. The ineptitude is yours in making a point with any sort of clarity. You've offered no solution to anything.
I have a very clear and appreciative handle on this issue.
You do not need to be hostile everywhere you go.

_ · December 2008

angelica wrote:

If you are saying you have science backing you, feel free to stand behind that with the evidence. I've presented my back-up. pretending to have proven me wrong in the past isn't back-up. it rather indicates lack of back-up.

:rolleyes: You're taking adantage of the fact that I said I don't have time for a huge discussion right now to imply that I don't have evidence, while you present biased, outdated sources and individual experience as evidence.

I have so much evidence I don't even know where to start. I'll look it up when I have time. I'll even let you pick the topic.

angelica wrote:

Please show me whose views I am minimizing, with my own words. Not what you read in.

Regarding post-abortion syndrome, you are presenting only one narrow side of a few womens' stories as universal fact to imply that post-abortion syndrome exists. That is minimizing of the experiences of the millions/majority of women who have abortions and don't have this same experience.

If you are trying to suggest that you never said there is such a syndrome, please clear it up for me right now: Are you saying there is such a syndrome or not? Be clear; don't just make implications and then try to weasel out of them.

angelica wrote:

Busting myths in your own perceptions is different than proving your perspective to be anything other than just that.

I am not providing my perspective at all. I am providing medical research and consensus.

angelica · December 2008

Sweet Emotion wrote:

I've got the greatest compassion for all of these women. Abortion is a profoundly difficult decision to make and acceptance of it perhaps more so.
A comprehensive system of aftercare would offer to embrace all of them, with their psychological needs and with their post operative health needs.
It's not a little challenging to embrace the needs of people. And, I am not looking for a catch all theory. If you actually read my post without hostility you'd have noted that I argue for the humanity of the women in defense of that care. The ineptitude is yours in making a point with any sort of clarity. You've offered no solution to anything.
I have a very clear and appreciative handle on this issue.
You do not need to be hostile everywhere you go.

you stated: "How is it realistic to embrace the experiences of all women? No 2 women have had the same experiences. That is a really broad canvas and becomes completely unworkable."

Of course I'm going to dispute that.....

You believe in aftercare.

I also believe in preventing problems and solving the ones that actively exist. As I said earlier, problem solving happens by getting way up in front of the problem and being able to look at it from the big picture, which includes all the variables. When we have these "two sides of the coin" either/or perspectives: pro and against...we have a huge split, again, indicating a lack of problem solving. I'm not interested in perpetuating either/or views.

_ · December 2008

angelica wrote:

I also believe in preventing problems and solving the ones that actively exist. As I said earlier, problem solving happens by getting way up in front of the problem and being able to look at it from the big picture, which includes all the variables. When we have these "two sides of the coin" either/or perspectives: pro and against...we have a huge split, again, indicating a lack of problem solving. I'm not interested in perpetuating either/or views.

So I still haven't figured out what solution you're proposing. Maybe I'm just dense, but could you please explain it more concretly? Thanks.

angelica · December 2008

scb wrote:

:rolleyes: You're taking adantage of the fact that I said I don't have time for a huge discussion right now to imply that I don't have evidence, while you present biased, outdated sources and individual experience as evidence.

it sounds rather that YOU are taking advantage. Put up or dont...I don't care. It's your point you are supposedly backing up........or not..........

Regarding post-abortion syndrome, you are presenting only one narrow side of a few womens' stories as universal fact to imply that post-abortion syndrome exists. That is minimizing of the experiences of the millions/majority of women who have abortions and don't have this same experience.

If you are trying to suggest that you never said there is such a syndrome, please clear it up for me right now: Are you saying there is such a syndrome or not? Be clear; don't just make implications and then try to weasel out of them.

I am not providing my perspective at all. I am providing medical research and consensus.

interesting..please show me where I said the experiences for some women are universal? I'll help you out: you won't be able to. I never said, felt, or implied this. Plus, I don't care if a "syndrome" exists or not. I'm not interested in politics or right-fighting. My concern is with these women who are suffering due to the consequences of abortion that they often did not see coming.

BTW: you have yet to show me whose views I am minimizing...beyond your reading in that I am doing so.

Your "mythbusting" shows your ego, and your perspective....being a "mythbuster" is certainly not a scientific term, from my knowledge.

Dylan Stone · December 2008

angelica wrote:

If you find it unworkable to have acceptance and compassion for the diverse and varying experiences of women who have had abortion, then maybe understanding the diversity of women who have had abortion isn't your cup of tea....

There are many who have a natural aptitude for accepting the diversity of human experience and who have no problem embracing it. And who bring practical help to these issues.

if it's a little challenging to embrace the views of all the women who have been touched, and come up with a black/white catchall theory that allows you to feel like you've got a handle on the issue, well, welcome to reality........and welcome to the world of "we've yet to work this out in any actual problem-solving capacity as of yet"......I'm talking about real solutions, here, not the ease of mind of those who want to "help".

Firstly... Why ARE you so incredibly hostile?

And secondly....

How do you explain this?

know1 wrote:

If I don't get to have the sex, then it's completely NOT up to me to take care of unwanted kids. It is their CHOICE to have the kid and they should deal with it.

GTFLYGIRL wrote:

This is hateful and ignorant...

saveuplife wrote:

Ummmm no, really it's not. It's actually pro-responsibility.

GTFLYGIRL wrote:

So FUCK those kids that were born to irresponsible parents....

Yeah.

Not hateful or ignorant at all.

angelica wrote:

I agree with you, saveuplife.

If society takes away a woman's right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy... and people are forced to have unwanted children...

You think society should have no responsibility in raising them?

My question is who is supposed to take care of these kids... these unwanted, sick, mentally challenged and abused and neglected children?

How do you think the following statement is not ignorant and hateful but is pro-responsibilty??

know1 wrote:

If I don't get to have the sex, then it's completely NOT up to me to take care of unwanted kids. It is their CHOICE to have the kid and they should deal with it.

angelica · December 2008

GTFLYGIRL wrote:

Firstly... Why ARE you so incredibly hostile?

And secondly....

How do you explain this?

If society takes away a woman's right to terminate an unwanted pregnancy... and people are forced to have unwanted children...

You think society should have no responsibility in raising them?

My question is who is supposed to take care of these kids... these unwanted, sick, mentally challenged and abused and neglected children?

How you think the following statement is not ignorant and hateful but is pro-responsibilty??

You are not understanding my perspective in this thread.

angelica · December 2008

scb wrote:

So I still haven't figured out what solution you're proposing. Maybe I'm just dense, but could you please explain it more concretly? Thanks.

that's because I haven't proposed a solution.

Abortion is wrong, yet I am pro choice

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