Abortion is wrong, yet I am pro choice

Sweet Emotion

angelica wrote:

you stated: "How is it realistic to embrace the experiences of all women? No 2 women have had the same experiences. That is a really broad canvas and becomes completely unworkable."

Of course I'm going to dispute that.....

You believe in aftercare.

I also believe in preventing problems and solving the ones that actively exist. As I said earlier, problem solving happens by getting way up in front of the problem and being able to look at it from the big picture, which includes all the variables. When we have these "two sides of the coin" either/or perspectives: pro and against...we have a huge split, again, indicating a lack of problem solving. I'm not interested in perpetuating either/or views.

I haven't brought up either / or views. What's the point of that? We have a situation in America that needs to be addressed. A big part of the crisis with unwanted births and teen pregnancy stems from a critical lack of and denial for a curriculum of sex ed so that kids can grow up with real information, without ignorance, with options, knowledge of contraception, and healthy attitudes.
Understanding and compassion on the part of society, in general, that the termination of a pregnancy, can be a traumatic experience, but one that might have any number of reasons for the woman or couple, might with any hope be achieved, one day. That would be beautiful.
Scandalizing the women and doctors and facilities is barbaric. Caring for them, which includes education, is part of the nobility of human intelligence.

Dylan Stone

angelica wrote:

You are not understanding my perspective in this thread.

I just asked for an answer to that exchange...where you indicated (and i followed the whole line) ...where you indicated you agreed with that one particular statement...

angelica

GTFLYGIRL wrote:

I just asked for an answer to that exchange...where you indicated (and i followed the whole line) ...where you indicated you agreed with that one particular statement...

when we have ongoing judgments and miscommunication, there is little point in continuing it for me...

catefrances

saveuplife wrote:

Talk to Cate...

...she said she believes it's human and alive, and she's still OK with termination.

I'm not sure what Abu's take is, but I think he sees it the same way.

how could it be anything but human?

_

angelica wrote:

it sounds rather that YOU are taking advantage. Put up or dont...I don't care. It's your point you are supposedly backing up........or not..........

You don't care because you're not interested in factual information. And it's actually YOUR point that you have yet to back up with real evidence. (Hint: A few individual experiences do not count as evidence for anything except those few individual experiences.)

Although, I'm starting to lose sight of exactly what your point really is. What is it?

angelica wrote:

interesting..please show me where I said the experiences for some women are universal? I'll help you out: you won't be able to. I never said, felt, or implied this. Plus, I don't care if a "syndrome" exists or not. I'm not interested in politics or right-fighting. My concern is with these women who are suffering due to the consequences of abortion that they often did not see coming.

BTW: you have yet to show me whose views I am minimizing...beyond your reading in that I am doing so.

Look, I'm not interested in politics right now either. I'm interested in factual medical information. You said:

angelica wrote:

all the studies on abortion, done before they became political taboo, showed huge negative effects of abortion on the women who had them

I understand that you have worked hard to make this a statement for which you won't have to take any responsibility for putting forth any actual ideas/values.

Regardless, your statement implies that abortion poses a significant risk to the psychological well-being of the women who have them. I am merely stating that research has proven this so-called risk of abortion to be false.

The vast majority of women who have abortions experience relief, not psychological trauma. (I am not going to take the time out of my work day to dig up the myriad studies that prove this just for you. I may look them up later, if you're nice. Although I'm sure you're capable of finding them yourself if you were really interested in the truth.)

To be supportive of the few women who have experienced psychological trauma is great. But to go on a public forum and make statements that are likely to cause someone trying to make this decision fear psychological harm as a likely consequence of the choice to have an abortion does nothing but spread misinformation designed to influence someone else's choice to bend in favor of YOUR agenda. I find that reprehensible. If you want to spout off information, and if you really care about women as you say you do, take care to present accurate, balanced, factual information.

angelica wrote:

Your "mythbusting" shows your ego, and your perspective....being a "mythbuster" is certainly not a scientific term, from my knowledge.

I never said "mythbusting" was a scientific term and you don't know the first thing about me or my ego... although it's quite arrogant of you to presume to know.

catefrances

angelica wrote:

when we have ongoing judgments and miscommunication, there is little point in continuing it for me...

then help us understand your perspective angelica. and please do not say those who undertsand will get what youre saying. cause clearly there are people here who have a problem with the way you articulate your views. we cant discuss with any clarity if your posts are foggy.

angelica

scb wrote:

I understand that you have worked hard to make this a statement for which you won't have to take any responsibility for putting forth any actual ideas/values.

wow...you've proven that you read into what I say and misinterpret me on more than one occasion, and then you come back and try to claim it's because I so carefully craft my responses to avoid responsibility.

When the reality is that I carefully craft my assertions in ways that I can stand behind and be responsible for exactly what I do say.

if others read in illusions as to what I say or my intent, that's not about me.

_

angelica wrote:

wow...you've proven that you read into what I say and misinterpret me on more than one occasion, and then you come back and try to claim it's because I so carefully craft my responses to avoid responsibility.

When the reality is that I carefully craft my assertions in ways that I can stand behind and be responsible for exactly what I do say.

Right. And it's much easier stand behind and be responsible for what you do say when you don't really say anything.

angelica

scb wrote:

Right. And it's much easier stand behind and be responsible for what you do say when you don't really say anything.

If I said "nothing" then I wonder why that line fired you up to go on this message board rampage when you openly admitted you were trying to stay out of this debate!....

maybe you didn't see my words as innocuous at all. Or maybe what you responded to were the illusions of your own mind.

the thing is, the truth often brings out people's inner dissonance. And then when the dust settles, the imagined problem is just what is always was...a misunderstanding of inner dissonance.

Sweet Emotion

angelica wrote:

the thing is, the truth often brings out people's inner dissonance.

So what's the truth, Angelica?

angelica

Sweet Emotion wrote:

So what's the truth, Angelica?

the truth is the truth.

Sweet Emotion

angelica wrote:

the truth is the truth.

Is there any end to your depth?? Maybe it's a case of the bends that prevents you from answering the questions we ask to your convoluted ramblings.

catefrances

angelica wrote:

the truth is the truth.

and everyones truth is different.

angelica

Sweet Emotion wrote:

Is there any end to your depth?? Maybe it's a case of the bends that prevents you from answering the questions we ask to your convoluted ramblings.

Oh...you wanted me to respond in a way that is acceptable to you...or you would attempt to denigrate my view...

thanks for reminding me....black/white, perpetuation of ignorance.

angelica

catefrances wrote:

and everyones truth is different.

in some cases. In other cases, there are universal laws.
like where independant of whether it's my personal truth or not, gravity exists as the truth.

in terms of my having said this: "Plus, all the studies on abortion, done before they became political taboo, showed huge negative effects of abortion on the women who had them." it was literally accurate (truthful or factual) within it's own context. Even though it was also representing my own personal perspective/context/slant.

Sweet Emotion

angelica wrote:

Oh...you wanted me to respond in a way that is acceptable to you...or you would attempt to denigrate my view...

thanks for reminding me....black/white, perpetuation of ignorance.

You're confused. You are entitled to your opinion. I don't care what it is. I don't judge you opinion. I only ask that you articulate something with substance, that is real conversation, not with intentionally arcane, occult, circular nonspeak. You use a lot of words and tend to say very little.

angelica

catefrances wrote:

then help us understand your perspective angelica. and please do not say those who undertsand will get what youre saying. cause clearly there are people here who have a problem with the way you articulate your views. we cant discuss with any clarity if your posts are foggy.

when people are judging me, reading in, blaming their own fallacies on me, etc, actual discussion and understanding is not going to be the outcome.

angelica

Sweet Emotion wrote:

You're confused. You are entitled to your opinion. I don't care what it is. I don't judge you opinion. I only ask that you articulate something with substance, that is real conversation, not with intentionally arcane, occult, circular nonspeak. You use a lot of words and tend to say very little.

right....you want the answer you want. you are not looking for my answer. added with some colourful insults...

catefrances

angelica wrote:

in some cases. In other cases, there are universal laws.
like where independant of whether it's my personal truth or not, gravity exists as the truth.

in ALL cases.

gravity is not a consistent universal law. sure it exists. but it exists differently dependent on where you are in the universe. but of course i understand that when we say universal sometimes we dont actually meanuniversal

angelica wrote:

in terms of my having said this: "Plus, all the studies on abortion, done before they became political taboo, showed huge negative effects of abortion on the women who had them." it was literally accurate (truthful or factual) within it's own context. Even though it was also representing my own personal perspective/context/slant.

and its own context is pertinent only to those women that were surveyed. that is hardly ALL women who have had abortions. but merely those women that were asked about their experience. this does not equate to some universal proof. it is just a sample of a bigger demographic.

Sweet Emotion

angelica wrote:

right....you want the answer you want. you are not looking for my answer. added with some colourful insults...

No insult. You have the floor. I'm not looking for you or anyone else to reaffirm my opinions for me. There seem to be several people asking the same of you.