Prostitution

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  • Posts: 6,038
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    So are you saying that if there is someone on tv or in a movie, it is wrong to think they are hot? Because there is no possible way for me to connect to their thoughts of feelings?
    If you find them to be hot, obviously that's just reality. It depends on what you do with those feelings. Do you objectify them and purely relate to their physical shell? Or do you think about them as a person. You may not know them individually, but most people have a degree of empathy, and can relate to the commonalities between others....We can empathize with how they might feel in different situations. Or, again, we can see them purely as a sexual fantasy which revolves around our sexual desires..ie: in fantasy, where the person is there to do our bidding.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Posts: 1,952
    angelica wrote:
    If you find them to be hot, obviously that's just reality. It depends on what you do with those feelings. Do you objectify them and purely relate to their physical shell? Or do you think about them as a person. You may not know them individually, but most people have a degree of empathy, and can relate to the commonalities between others....We can empathize with how they might feel in different situations. Or, again, we can see them purely as a sexual fantasy which revolves around our sexual desires..ie: in fantasy, where the person is there to do our bidding.


    Question then, is appreciating someone purely for their physical beauty and nothing else, any different from appreciating a singer just for how well they can sing and nothing else, or a sprinter for how fast they can run and nothing else?
  • Posts: 11,175
    angelica wrote:
    It's great to appreciate someone's beauty! I do this all the time, male or female. As long as you see them as human beings with feelings, and attempt to connect with their thoughts, feelings and intuitions as well.

    someone viewing pornography is not doing this, for example. And it's been shown this type of thing increases desensitization to the humanity of women.
    I get what you are saying angelica, but i look at it a little differently. The guys and girls in porn movies are not asking us to connect with their thoughts, feelings and intuitons. They are willingly being paid for a service, and that is to entertain whoever is watching their movie and to appeal to them in a sexual way. That's my belief anyway. One of my best friends gets absolutely savage with her boyfriend over porn and strip clubs. She goes off. I have no issues with it at all, Maybe i look at it differently than some other girls, i dunno, but it's a fact of life that men love looking at sexy girls. They absolutely do. And they like porn and they love looking at naked girls and strippers. It's entertainment, especially hot ones. I don't find that a threat to a relationship at all, because the way i see it is they are not going run off with this person. They look, they like what they see. Eye candy...it's harmless. Obviously i'm talking about if it's undertaken by consenting adults. Not talking about the illegal or underage stuff here obviously because i strongly disagree with that.

    Until i met the person i wanted to spend my life with, I never really used to understand how men could get so turned on by that and not actually 'love' the person, because generally for girls there has to be some sort of connection to the person for them to want to lust after them in that way. I've come to understand that men don't think about or lust about the particular girl after the movie is over. If you have a good trusting relationship with your partner, and feel safe and secure in each others love, then it can actually enhance the relationship. Hot as hell.

    I know everyone doesn't agree and that's totally ok. It's just my opinion.
  • Posts: 19,646
    Pj_Gurl wrote:
    I get what you are saying angelica, but i look at it a little differently. The guys and girls in porn movies are not asking us to connect with their thoughts, feelings and intuitons. They are willingly being paid for a service, and that is to entertain whoever is watching their movie and to appeal to them in a sexual way. That's my belief anyway. One of my best friends gets absolutely savage with her boyfriend over porn and strip clubs. She goes off. I have no issues with it at all, Maybe i look at it differently than some other girls, i dunno, but it's a fact of life that men love looking at sexy girls. They absolutely do. And they like porn and they love looking at naked girls and strippers. It's entertainment, especially hot ones. I don't find that a threat to a relationship at all, because the way i see it is they are not going run off with this person. They look, they like what they see. Eye candy...it's harmless. Obviously i'm talking about if it's undertaken by consenting adults. Not talking about the illegal or underage stuff here obviously because i strongly disagree with that.

    Until i met the person i wanted to spend my life with, I never really used to understand how men could get so turned on by that and not actually 'love' the person, because generally for girls there has to be some sort of connection to the person for them to want to lust after them in that way. I've come to understand that men don't think about or lust about the particular girl after the movie is over. If you have a good trusting relationship with your partner, and feel safe and secure in each others love, then it can actually enhance the relationship. Hot as hell.

    I know everyone doesn't agree and that's totally ok. It's just my opinion.

    this post reminds me of how much i do actually like porn. :)

    so thanks :)
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • Posts: 6,038
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    Question then, is appreciating someone purely for their physical beauty and nothing else, any different from appreciating a singer just for how well they can sing and nothing else, or a sprinter for how fast they can run and nothing else?
    I think appreciating someone for skills, talents or abilities is the opposite of objectification.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Posts: 1,952
    angelica wrote:
    I think appreciating someone for skills, talents or abilities is the opposite of objectification.


    But isn't the ability to look really attractive an ability the same way the ability to run fast is? Both are a combination of something you are born with and something you have to work at.
  • Posts: 6,038
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    But isn't the ability to look really attractive an ability the same way the ability to run fast is? Both are a combination of something you are born with and something you have to work at.
    For me the issue isn't with someone not appreciating my ability to look attractive. I personally love that attention. It goes beyond my skill/ability, or that of other women's, to the intentions of the man (in this case ) in question. Does he appreciate me as a human being, and for my ability to look attractive/hot? Or does he look at me as an image or shell/object, there to do his bidding? Does he then tune out my feedback to the contrary? (this has happened to me a LOT)

    I am grateful there are many amazing men who are looking for depth and integration with their sexuality. A holistic human/sexual experience, which reverberates on all levels.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Posts: 6,038
    Pj_Gurl wrote:
    I get what you are saying angelica, but i look at it a little differently. The guys and girls in porn movies are not asking us to connect with their thoughts, feelings and intuitons. They are willingly being paid for a service, and that is to entertain whoever is watching their movie and to appeal to them in a sexual way. That's my belief anyway. One of my best friends gets absolutely savage with her boyfriend over porn and strip clubs. She goes off. I have no issues with it at all, Maybe i look at it differently than some other girls, i dunno, but it's a fact of life that men love looking at sexy girls. They absolutely do. And they like porn and they love looking at naked girls and strippers. It's entertainment, especially hot ones. I don't find that a threat to a relationship at all, because the way i see it is they are not going run off with this person. They look, they like what they see. Eye candy...it's harmless. Obviously i'm talking about if it's undertaken by consenting adults. Not talking about the illegal or underage stuff here obviously because i strongly disagree with that.

    Until i met the person i wanted to spend my life with, I never really used to understand how men could get so turned on by that and not actually 'love' the person, because generally for girls there has to be some sort of connection to the person for them to want to lust after them in that way. I've come to understand that men don't think about or lust about the particular girl after the movie is over. If you have a good trusting relationship with your partner, and feel safe and secure in each others love, then it can actually enhance the relationship. Hot as hell.

    I know everyone doesn't agree and that's totally ok. It's just my opinion.
    To each their own, of course. I celebrate the wide diversity of humanity.

    I have used pornography in all of my relationships until ten years ago. I also have had many experiences sexually where I was not connected to my partner except sexually, by my own choice.

    I always sought the new experience as they all came up lacking somehow. Once I found whole sexual experiences, where I'm connected with another on all levels, and have found Sacred Sexuality, there has been no turning back for me.

    There is much debate as to whether pornography is harmless. Serial killers like Paul Bernardo (Canada) and Ted Bundy, for example, have sited pornography as contributing to the direction they've headed to.

    People do what they do. My personal concern is on personally living at a high vibration. And with clarifying points, such as with objectification, which is quite different than implying others "should" live any differently than they do.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Posts: 6,038
    angelica wrote:
    For me the issue isn't with someone not appreciating my ability to look attractive. I personally love that attention. It goes beyond my skill/ability, or that of other women's, to the intentions of the man (in this case ) in question. Does he appreciate me as a human being, and for my ability to look attractive/hot? Or does he look at me as an image or shell/object, there to do his bidding? Does he then tune out my feedback to the contrary? (this has happened to me a LOT)

    I am grateful there are many amazing men who are looking for depth and integration with their sexuality. A holistic human/sexual experience, which reverberates on all levels.
    They key, really, is does the man act from 'lower' animal brain functioning? Or does he integrate his sexual desires with all levels of brain functioning. It's about evolutionary stages, ultimately....how close are we to animal, compared to being highly functioning humans?
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Posts: 462
    Collin wrote:
    Do you hang out with girls? Because they indeed don't pay :D

    Anyway, I don't think my location matters, but I live in the Czech Republic now. Sometimes I even have to pay extra because I'm a foreigner too.

    It's the same here. Bars often let women in for no money, but charge a cover for men. In college, some people hosting will ask for $5 to let you in, but girls go free. One girl I dated went to a school dominated by a Greek scene. She could go to any party, anywhere, anytime and drink until she was cross-eyed, all for free. But if I came to visit her, she had to find two girls, because they wouldn't even let us into the place as a couple, there had to be more girls with us.
    she was underwhelmed, if that's a word
  • Posts: 462
    angelica wrote:
    It's great to appreciate someone's beauty! I do this all the time, male or female. As long as you see them as human beings with feelings, and attempt to connect with their thoughts, feelings and intuitions as well.

    Who the hell has time every day to stop and think hard and connect with the thoughts, feelings, and intuitions of every person they lay eyes on? That sounds like something Stuart Smalley would say.
    she was underwhelmed, if that's a word
  • Posts: 462
    angelica wrote:
    If you find them to be hot, obviously that's just reality. It depends on what you do with those feelings. Do you objectify them and purely relate to their physical shell? Or do you think about them as a person. You may not know them individually, but most people have a degree of empathy, and can relate to the commonalities between others....We can empathize with how they might feel in different situations. Or, again, we can see them purely as a sexual fantasy which revolves around our sexual desires..ie: in fantasy, where the person is there to do our bidding.

    This is so absurd. So sexual fantasy is evil now? We can't think someone is attractive and then move on with our day and never give them another thought, except maybe a few minutes of inspiration for a wank session? We have to mentally romance them and love them and dwell deeply on what wonderful little snowflakes they are? You can't be serious.
    she was underwhelmed, if that's a word
  • Posts: 462
    Pj_Gurl wrote:
    Until i met the person i wanted to spend my life with, I never really used to understand how men could get so turned on by that and not actually 'love' the person, because generally for girls there has to be some sort of connection to the person for them to want to lust after them in that way. I've come to understand that men don't think about or lust about the particular girl after the movie is over.

    You're wrong... I am madly in love with Keri Sable!

    :D
    she was underwhelmed, if that's a word
  • Posts: 5,656
    unifiedscene wrote:
    This is so absurd. So sexual fantasy is evil now? We can't think someone is attractive and then move on with our day and never give them another thought, except maybe a few minutes of inspiration for a wank session? We have to mentally romance them and love them and dwell deeply on what wonderful little snowflakes they are? You can't be serious.

    I know when ever I flip through Maxim I always wonder what the women's dreams and aspirations are. I sit and wonder what they where feeling when the posed half dressed for the photo shoot. :)
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Posts: 14,977
    Sweet Emotion wrote:
    Legalize everything that doesn't hurt anyone. The good lawd imbued us all, everyone, with intellect and free will. The freedom to choose for oneself. Be it whim or survival. So be a prostitute or just visit one. We have to begin accepting responsibility for our own actions -including fighting back against the morals police that would bully everyone to impose their own narrow behavioral scope on society "for it's own good". If you want to play the ponies, or 'craps', or blow a joint, or pay to shoot a load into a stranger, go for it, and go for it with gusto. I know prostitutes, strippers & porn actresses in several countries and they're some of the coolest, happiest people around. The party doesn't end. Who the hell is anybody to tell me that their law is more important than my own?




    excellent point.
    one's 'morality' may differ greatly from one person to the next, and as long as your actions are consentual and/or do not do harm to others.....there is no reason someone else's morality should be forced upon you.


    and seriously, women can be just as *base* and emotionally disconnected from sexual experience as men. objectify, have purely sexual/physical intercourse sans emotion, etc. men may more likey typify such behaviors, but it certainly is not theirs alone. and agsin, there is nothing *wrong* with such behaviors if that is wht you desire and is mutually agreed upon. sure, such activities involved with someone you have an emotional attachment is even better.....but a shag with no strings is all cool too. depends what you're looking for.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • Posts: 462
    mammasan wrote:
    I know when ever I flip through Maxim I always wonder what the women's dreams and aspirations are. I sit and wonder what they where feeling when the posed half dressed for the photo shoot. :)

    No kidding. I'm not saying there aren't plenty of guys who treat women like objects or a means to an end. But what she's talking about is human behavior that BOTH genders practice and it's not like it's inherently evil or anything. I don't think that objectification and love and empathy for one's humanity are necessarily mutually exclusive all the time. It's not like it I have a fantasy about a woman I find attractive I'm incapable of also caring about her. Shit, I have a lot of female friends that I would do anything for and that I respect and admire for their ambition... but I've still been known (rather, very carefully not known, hehe) to have the occasional daydream about them. My ex was the most intelligent and ambitious woman I ever knew and I loved that, but that doesn't mean that sometimes I didn't just eye her up and down sometimes and think "I've got to have that now!"
    she was underwhelmed, if that's a word
  • Posts: 462
    decides2dream wrote:
    and seriously, women can be just as *base* and emotionally disconnected from sexual experience as men. objectify, have purely sexual/physical intercourse sans emotion, etc. men may more likey typify such behaviors, but it certainly is not theirs alone. and agsin, there is nothing *wrong* with such behaviors if that is wht you desire and is mutually agreed upon. sure, such activities involved with someone you have an emotional attachment is even better.....but a shag with no strings is all cool too. depends what you're looking for.

    Amen.
    she was underwhelmed, if that's a word
  • Posts: 6,038
    has anyone read Linda Lovelace's book? Where she recounts the control and abuse, inluding threat by weapons she endured during the era she made movies such as "Deep throat"?

    I have.

    Has anyone read Tracy Lord's book, which details the sexual assault she experienced as a child, and the other painful issues that brought her to the porn industry as an underaged girl? Of her then drug abuse as an adult porn star, and relationships with abusive men? All that is a little less "sexy" to acknowledge....
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Posts: 6,038
    unifiedscene wrote:
    No kidding. I'm not saying there aren't plenty of guys who treat women like objects or a means to an end. But what she's talking about is human behavior that BOTH genders practice and it's not like it's inherently evil or anything. I don't think that objectification and love and empathy for one's humanity are necessarily mutually exclusive all the time. It's not like it I have a fantasy about a woman I find attractive I'm incapable of also caring about her. Shit, I have a lot of female friends that I would do anything for and that I respect and admire for their ambition... but I've still been known (rather, very carefully not known, hehe) to have the occasional daydream about them. My ex was the most intelligent and ambitious woman I ever knew and I loved that, but that doesn't mean that sometimes I didn't just eye her up and down sometimes and think "I've got to have that now!"
    No one said objectification is inherently evil. However, objectification remains objectification.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Posts: 5,656
    unifiedscene wrote:
    No kidding. I'm not saying there aren't plenty of guys who treat women like objects or a means to an end. But what she's talking about is human behavior that BOTH genders practice and it's not like it's inherently evil or anything. I don't think that objectification and love and empathy for one's humanity are necessarily mutually exclusive all the time. It's not like it I have a fantasy about a woman I find attractive I'm incapable of also caring about her. Shit, I have a lot of female friends that I would do anything for and that I respect and admire for their ambition... but I've still been known (rather, very carefully not known, hehe) to have the occasional daydream about them. My ex was the most intelligent and ambitious woman I ever knew and I loved that, but that doesn't mean that sometimes I didn't just eye her up and down sometimes and think "I've got to have that now!"

    I completely agree with you. I don't see why admiring someone's beauty and being drawn to them sexually has to be mutual exclusive from respecting them. I can see a beautiful woman walking down the street and momentarily dream about being intimate with her, but that doesn't mean that I don't respect her as a person. As you said, I'm sure there are men and women out there that objectify people of the opposite, and same, sex but that doesn't mean that we all do or that we should be ashamed because we are drawn to someone's beauty in a lustful way.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul

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