becos the women around here dont hate me enough already

Jeanie · March 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

Jeanie

I think this was the thread, you said that statistics showed men are the cause of more domestic violence. I didn't have time to respond right away, but here it is, from statistics Canada.

http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/85-224-XIE/0000085-224-XIE.pdf

I'm pretty sure this came up in a thread about domestic violence. Still, people don't believe me.

"I think these scenarios are very sad, and completely unfair. Having said that, the reason that the procedures and laws are in place that are is because of statistics. In order for the statistics to change and then impact on the procedures, means that more men need to come forward. It also means that this scenario is currently happening more to women than men. What should we do about that?"

That's what I said Ryan. Not that men are the cause of more domestic violence. Now give me a minute so I can try to get my brain in order to read and absorb. Just wanted to repeat what I had said, coz it seems a little different to what you are saying, that's all.

Ahnimus · March 2007

Jeanie wrote:

"I think these scenarios are very sad, and completely unfair. Having said that, the reason that the procedures and laws are in place that are is because of statistics. In order for the statistics to change and then impact on the procedures, means that more men need to come forward. It also means that this scenario is currently happening more to women than men. What should we do about that?"

That's what I said Ryan. Not that men are the cause of more domestic violence. Now give me a minute so I can try to get my brain in order to read and absorb. Just wanted to repeat what I had said, coz it seems a little different to what you are saying, that's all.

What should we do about all violence? Not just women. I'm seriously offended by your position on this Jeanie. As I'm sure all these male victims would be as well. It's not just you, but any woman that's ever been the victim of DV takes offense to me saying it's equal between men and women. I'm sick of this fucking bullshit. It's a bad stereotype, it's wrong, you are wrong, I've proven it, wake up, open your eyes, and get off your self-pitying trip. I've been attacked with knives, had a knife around my throat, knives thrown at me, threatened to be killed in my sleep, attacked with a fork, a cast iron frying pan, and a punched and slapped several times. It's fucking pathetic that it's degraded to me being a wuss for not taking a knife to the throat, or for not letting my GF kick me in the balls, or to say that it's not as bad as a man punching a woman in the tits. It's fucking bullshit.

soulsinging · March 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

What should we do about all violence? Not just women. I'm seriously offended by your position on this Jeanie. As I'm sure all these male victims would be as well. It's not just you, but any woman that's ever been the victim of DV takes offense to me saying it's equal between men and women. I'm sick of this fucking bullshit. It's a bad stereotype, it's wrong, you are wrong, I've proven it, wake up, open your eyes, and get off your self-pitying trip. I've been attacked with knives, had a knife around my throat, knives thrown at me, threatened to be killed in my sleep, attacked with a fork, a cast iron frying pan, and a punched and slapped several times. It's fucking pathetic that it's degraded to me being a wuss for not taking a knife to the throat, or for not letting my GF kick me in the balls, or to say that it's not as bad as a man punching a woman in the tits. It's fucking bullshit.

you're not a wuss, but just becos you got caught up with some fucked up women doesn't mean your experience is the norm. how many women are killed or hospitalized by violent male partners each year? and how many men?

Ahnimus · March 2007

soulsinging wrote:

you're not a wuss, but just becos you got caught up with some fucked up women doesn't mean your experience is the norm. how many women are killed or hospitalized by violent male partners each year? and how many men?

How many women's dicks are cut off?

Seriously, now you are saying that severity matters. So if a guy punches a woman in the tit, or a woman kicks a man in the balls, it's not Domestic Violence? Or it doesn't matter because some guy killed his wife some other time?

soulsinging · March 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

How many women's dicks are cut off?

Seriously, now you are saying that severity matters. So if a guy punches a woman in the tit, or a woman kicks a man in the balls, it's not Domestic Violence? Or it doesn't matter because some guy killed his wife some other time?

no, im saying it is domestic violence and should be stopped. how many GUYS' dicks are cut off? it's not exactly common. but severity does matter. when a girl sticks a knife at your throat, you ought to be strong enough to disarm her without hurting her. the fact is a girl can wail on a guy all night and do minimal damage and a guy can kill a girl with one punch in the heat of the moment. and yes, murder is more serious than mere assault. no domestic violence is acceptable. but you cannot blame people for targeting male on female violence more becos that KILLS women easily and often. men dont die from domestic squabbles nearly as often. im sorry you were almost one of them, but your experience isn't exactly typical. it's not fair, but neither is life. you're stronger. if some bitch comes at you... disarm her and leave.

Ahnimus · March 2007

soulsinging wrote:

no, im saying it is domestic violence and should be stopped. how many GUYS' dicks are cut off? it's not exactly common. but severity does matter. when a girl sticks a knife at your throat, you ought to be strong enough to disarm her without hurting her. the fact is a girl can wail on a guy all night and do minimal damage and a guy can kill a girl with one punch in the heat of the moment. and yes, murder is more serious than mere assault. no domestic violence is acceptable. but you cannot blame people for targeting male on female violence more becos that KILLS women easily and often. men dont die from domestic squabbles nearly as often. im sorry you were almost one of them, but your experience isn't exactly typical. it's not fair, but neither is life. you're stronger. if some bitch comes at you... disarm her and leave.

I'm not stronger than most women dude. I'm actually a weakling. I just know how the physics of force work so I can deliver a deadly punch to a fucking body builder. Women can take down men too, it's not about physical mass, it's about velocity, impact radius and pressure points. I can link you a video of a girl knocking a guy out with one punch. They are roughly the same size, except he's a guy and has more muscle mass. That bullshit didn't stop my 200 lbs friend Shandel from jumping on her 80 lbs boyfriend and crushing him while he was sleeping. Those stereotypes you use to justify a stereotype are also bullshit.

Once again, violence in general is bad, we shouldn't focus on one side, it's bullshit, it's sexism, plain and simple. Ignorance alone would ignore it.

Ahnimus · March 2007

Also SS, get a pissed off psycho bitch with a knife to your throat, then tell me you are gonna try to take it away from her.

angelica · March 2007

Any act of violence is unacceptable, whether coming from a female or male. I don't buy into the prioritizing based on size, gender, etc, either, Ahnimus. I pulled a knife on my boyfriend about 17 years ago, when in the midst of post partum depression. It was a traumatic situation for him--he knew he could not trust me, rightfully so. I've heard other strong men talk about how abuse from women half their size affected them--psychologically, it can run deep. And then beyond that, to have society minimize the situation in any way, I would imagine is bothersome or beyond.

soulsinging · March 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

I'm not stronger than most women dude. I'm actually a weakling. I just know how the physics of force work so I can deliver a deadly punch to a fucking body builder. Women can take down men too, it's not about physical mass, it's about velocity, impact radius and pressure points. I can link you a video of a girl knocking a guy out with one punch. They are roughly the same size, except he's a guy and has more muscle mass. That bullshit didn't stop my 200 lbs friend Shandel from jumping on her 80 lbs boyfriend and crushing him while he was sleeping. Those stereotypes you use to justify a stereotype are also bullshit.

Once again, violence in general is bad, we shouldn't focus on one side, it's bullshit, it's sexism, plain and simple. Ignorance alone would ignore it.

it's not sexism, it's realizing the world is imperfect and you cannot stop every bad thing form happening to everyone, so sometimes you have to pick your battles. your friend shandel is, again, atypical. and yeah, you can kill someone easily with one punch, but how many people know how to deliver that kind of punch? very few. a guy with no training can take a swing and a girl dies. a girl with no training is not going to kill a guy with several punches unless she gets incredibly lucky.

soulsinging · March 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

Also SS, get a pissed off psycho bitch with a knife to your throat, then tell me you are gonna try to take it away from her.

i dont date pissed off psycho bitches. i fuck them and throw them out.

Ahnimus · March 2007

soulsinging wrote:

it's not sexism, it's realizing the world is imperfect and you cannot stop every bad thing form happening to everyone, so sometimes you have to pick your battles. your friend shandel is, again, atypical. and yeah, you can kill someone easily with one punch, but how many people know how to deliver that kind of punch? very few. a guy with no training can take a swing and a girl dies. a girl with no training is not going to kill a guy with several punches unless she gets incredibly lucky.

First of all, women are more likely to attack their husbands while they are sleeping. They are also way more likely to use a knife, frying pan or other weapon. You could be seriously pumped, a knife to your chest while your sleeping on your back is gonna do you in.

Shandel is not atypical, that's what the statistics show.

angelica · March 2007

I agree, Ahnimus, it's sexism. The fact is that people truly cannot justify the unjustifiable.

Ahnimus · March 2007

angelica wrote:

Any act of violence is unacceptable, whether coming from a female or male. I don't buy into the prioritizing based on size, gender, etc, either, Ahnimus. I pulled a knife on my boyfriend about 17 years ago, when in the midst of post partum depression. It was a traumatic situation for him--he knew he could not trust me, rightfully so. I've heard other strong men talk about how abuse from women half their size affected them--psychologically, it can run deep. And then beyond that, to have society minimize the situation in any way, I would imagine is bothersome or beyond.

Absolutely. I had difficulty sleeping after being threatened to be murdered. Not to mention that I loved her and she said she loved me. I don't even threaten harm out of jest though. It's no joking matter, look at the guy that hung himself on chat, and other chatters probably said "Haha, do it man, lol"

I don't see why it can't just be an egalitarian system. Here is a solution. When there is a domestic violence report, both people are separated by injunction, children are temporarily removed from both parents, and investigation occurs. Anyone found guilty of assault are sentenced accordingly. When I attended anger management counseling, I was in a room of men and women, we talked about rage together. We all sat in the same shitty chairs. That was in Powell River B.C. though. That's the way it should be.

angelica · March 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

Absolutely. I had difficulty sleeping after being threatened to be murdered. Not to mention that I loved her and she said she loved me. I don't even threaten harm out of jest though. It's no joking matter, look at the guy that hung himself on chat, and other chatters probably said "Haha, do it man, lol"

I don't see why it can't just be an egalitarian system. Here is a solution. When there is a domestic violence report, both people are separated by injunction, children are temporarily removed from both parents, and investigation occurs. Anyone found guilty of assault are sentenced accordingly. When I attended anger management counseling, I was in a room of men and women, we talked about rage together. We all sat in the same shitty chairs. That was in Powell River B.C. though. That's the way it should be.

When I held the knife on my boyfriend, the next day I was mortified with myself. I told my best friend and she blamed him--"he must have done something really bad to make you that upset". When it happened, he was terrified. The next day I was terrified. I read true crime books at the time and I realized people lose their cool and murder in passion all the time. I didn't excuse my behaviour at all because there was no excuse for it. I knew a guy on the CS message board and he was an obnoxious, healthy, strong man, but he was traumatized by his tiny wife's physical abuse towards him especially with the connections it drew with the abuse his dad used to perpetuate with him. Things definitely need to be balanced out in terms of how we perceive these situations. Abuse is unacceptable, period. To minimize abuse towards men is not okay, imo.

Milhouse VanHouten · March 2007

soulsinging wrote:

i dont date pissed off psycho bitches. i fuck them and throw them out.

seriously. are you for real?

Ahnimus · March 2007

angelica wrote:

When I held the knife on my boyfriend, the next day I was mortified with myself. I told my best friend and she blamed him--"he must have done something really bad to make you that upset". When it happened, he was terrified. The next day I was terrified. I read true crime books at the time and I realized people lose their cool and murder in passion all the time. I didn't excuse my behaviour at all because there was no excuse for it. I knew a guy on the CS message board and he was an obnoxious, healthy, strong man, but he was traumatized by his tiny wife's physical abuse towards him especially with the connections it drew with the abuse his dad used to perpetuate with him. Things definitely need to be balanced out in terms of how we perceive these situations. Abuse is unacceptable, period. To minimize abuse towards men is not okay, imo.

Right, and it's covered up by these stereotypes about men and women. I consider a gender role to be a mix of sexist stereotypes. I remember when I was 14 and my mom just divorced my dad, whenever I visited her, she demoralized men, said "all men are assholes" and similar statements. I of course realized that I was going to be a man too. It made me sick. She had a shrink at the time who's husband cheated on her and was saying similar things. My sister has always had a hard time with men. She's been in one abusive relationship after another, attracting drug dealers and criminals. My mother also warned my sister that one of her brothers or father might try to sexually abuse her. My sister had this in her head growing up. She's a really shy, timid girl, she tries to fit in, and she does, but I think she's very afraid. Sick men find some way to use that against her.

Then I wonder. If a young girl is made to be afraid of men, men that make up a large part of the population, all men that is. Then they become quite, shy, afraid, just what a rapist or otherwise sick man wants. Perhaps once a woman is abused, she confronts this fear, becomes strong and defends herself or avoids bad situations. At some point she realizes not everyone is like the stereotypes, in-fact they are a very small fraction of men. Could we not avoid the whole situation by having a realistic perception of reality?

An alternative theory to a "sick man" preying on a shy woman is just a developing control issue. When two people live together, or even start dating, boundaries are set and over time that can evolve into some bad control issues. This is the more likely scenario. People, men and women, need to be in mutual control of boundaries. Again the stereotyping is a bad thing.

I also like to add, people change all the time.

Jeanie · March 2007

catefrances wrote:

i agree jeanie. just like cookies, one night stands are sometimes food.

mmmm.......white chocolate and macadamia cookies!!!

Jeanie · March 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

First of all, women are more likely to attack their husbands while they are sleeping. They are also way more likely to use a knife, frying pan or other weapon. You could be seriously pumped, a knife to your chest while your sleeping on your back is gonna do you in.

Shandel is not atypical, that's what the statistics show.

Ok, well I'll take this one first. Because I can string a coherant thought together on it.

I confess that if my partner was beating the crap out of me on a regular basis, that if I'd had enough of being beaten, and I was in that psychological space, then quite likely if I wanted to retaliate, or I was scared for my life and felt there was no other option, that yes, I would attack while he slept and I would use a weapon.

I did not but I can understand why some women do.

And I'm not saying it's right or wrong just that I understand it.

Jeanie · March 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

What should we do about all violence? Not just women. I'm seriously offended by your position on this Jeanie. As I'm sure all these male victims would be as well. It's not just you, but any woman that's ever been the victim of DV takes offense to me saying it's equal between men and women. I'm sick of this fucking bullshit. It's a bad stereotype, it's wrong, you are wrong, I've proven it, wake up, open your eyes, and get off your self-pitying trip. I've been attacked with knives, had a knife around my throat, knives thrown at me, threatened to be killed in my sleep, attacked with a fork, a cast iron frying pan, and a punched and slapped several times. It's fucking pathetic that it's degraded to me being a wuss for not taking a knife to the throat, or for not letting my GF kick me in the balls, or to say that it's not as bad as a man punching a woman in the tits. It's fucking bullshit.

Well to start with, I'd prefer it if you calmed down. I don't think understanding gender roles or DV statistics will be helped in anyway, by you attacking me in your anger. I understand that you are angry and I can see why you are angry but I am not the person that you should be angry with. And frankly I don't deserve it. I will be much more likely to want to have this discussion with you if I don't feel attacked, threatened or negated. Now I'm going to say to you firstly, I think you have assumed alot about my position on this based on the fact that the subject makes you angry and that you feel that what happened to you is being negated by me. This is not the case. I would no more negate your experience than I would any other victim of domestic violence, male or female. Secondly I'm going to say that if I was to be a less calm person, I might actually take some of what you have said as negating my experience or somehow trying to prove that yours is worse and therefore I have no right to speak or that my experience is not "worthy" enough. I am, for the sake of our friendship, going to assume that this is not the case and that somehow we have managed to get into an argument because we are misunderstanding each other. And I think nothing is served by "my pain is worse than your pain". Pissing contests will get us nowhere.

What I have said is that government funds and legislates based on statistics. And men are under represented in the statistics. Whether that be because of lack of reporting by men, or because studies have not been conducted or because they are not a statistically big enough concern. Either way, government will spend funds and allocate moneys based on what the statistics say. So in order for men to be given more access, better funding and greater services, then statistics would have to be gathered, analysed and reported. That has nothing to do with the laws as they stand or the services as they are currently provided. It is the step before that if you will. If statistically men are shown to require these things then government will provide them.

Now I'm not saying that what has happened to you is not awful, or that it isn't happening to other men. But I do still struggle with the statistics you provided as being the be all and end all on the subject. I realise that there are men going through some horrific situations in their own homes. I'm not saying they are wrong just that I would want more evidence backing them up than one lot of statistics. If this is the case in Canada then I would suggest that lobbying your politicians for equal access is something that you should definitely do.
It's important that men are given the help they need in these circumstances.

I will however also provide these links, which indicate that these statistics are not the case in Australia. I admit it was impossible to get many stats on men as victims of domestic violence but wiki does show a few percentages.

http://www.aph.gov.au/library/intguide/SP/Dom_violence.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence

Anyway, on that note, I'm done with this as an argument.
If you really want to make change then ALL PEOPLE need to discuss these things calmly, as adults in a non threathening manner.

Please don't take any of this as a personal attack on you Ryan. It is not.
As far as I'm concerned you are my friend and we should be able to have this discussion calmly and rationally as adults, regardless of whether we agree or not. At this stage I don't know if we agree or we don't. But I believe that communication is more important that agreement sometimes.

Jeanie · March 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

........I don't see why it can't just be an egalitarian system. Here is a solution. When there is a domestic violence report, both people are separated by injunction, children are temporarily removed from both parents, and investigation occurs. Anyone found guilty of assault are sentenced accordingly. When I attended anger management counseling, I was in a room of men and women, we talked about rage together. We all sat in the same shitty chairs. That was in Powell River B.C. though. That's the way it should be.

I agree with this, although I would not want to be in a room discussing anger management with men, immediately following a domestic violence situation.

I'm not saying that I would never want to hear from men or to have group with them, but I don't think being in a mixed sex environment is a good idea for people in the early stages of group.

becos the women around here dont hate me enough already

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