When you give yourself permission to judge me personally, particularly in your preferred covert way, where you leave yourself room to backpedal on, it frustrates and angers me. One, because you are not operating fairly. Two, because no matter how many times I come back, fairly, you continue with your game. Well, this is the result.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I would say unless they are unrealistic. Based on our stereotype, we may respond to our own impression in a way that backfires on us, by being inaccurate as per the situation. Stereotypes can literally be wrong if we are seeking to assess what we see and if we are inaccurate in our snap judgment. Such as with the stuck up sorority girl who may not be so at all.
but if most sorority girls are stuck up, then the stereotype is not invalid. it has been earned. the fact that sorority girl X is not does not mean the stereotype is not true, only that it does not apply to her. if one refuses to accept that she is not that way, it is no longer a stereotype about sorority girls, it is a prejudice against sorority girls. however, if one finds she does not fit the stereotype and accepts that, it means that what they have is a stereotype of sorority girls that is open to being proven wrong.
We use stereotypes to prejudge all the time, before we know the actual variables of a situation. Sometimes this works, other times it doesn't. I do it all the time--it's inevitable. The trick is to acknowledge and realize this so one can make amends and acknowledge, adapt and learn when it's not working. Unfortunately, often people cling to their stereotypes and continually rely on the stereotype without adapting based on input that conflicts. Which is where we get closed minded prejudiced people. I find this to be a common shadow aspect of stereotyping--the dark side.
that's what im saying... if you cling to stereotypes without adapting, it is not really a stereotype. it is a prejudice.
but if most sorority girls are stuck up, then the stereotype is not invalid. it has been earned. the fact that sorority girl X is not does not mean the stereotype is not true, only that it does not apply to her. if one refuses to accept that she is not that way, it is no longer a stereotype about sorority girls, it is a prejudice against sorority girls. however, if one finds she does not fit the stereotype and accepts that, it means that what they have is a stereotype of sorority girls that is open to being proven wrong.
that's what im saying... if you cling to stereotypes without adapting, it is not really a stereotype. it is a prejudice.
"Stereotypes are ideas held about members of particular groups, based solely on membership in that group. They are often considered to be negative or prejudicial and may be used to justify certain discriminatory behaviors. According to Sander Gilman, stereotypes, by definition, are never accurate representations, but a projection of an individual's fears onto others, regardless of the reality of others."
"Stereotype production is based on:
Simplification
Exaggeration
Generalization
Presentation of cultural attributes as being 'natural'
Unshakable belief in stability of stereotype
Racism, sexism, and other forms of discrimination
Historical factors
Guilt by association
can be negative or positive
can be beneficial or harmful (a harmful stereotype can still be positive about a group)"
I don't disagree with anything you've said above. And yes, it is harder for women in other parts of the world that deal with poverty. All I'm saying is we play into this discrimination when we 'play the victim'. I would be careful not to make statements like, 'this is how it is and how it will always be'. If I sit and stew about how men get all the advantages (and I have stewed over this!) then I fall into the 'oppressed' category. I refuse to be a victim and continue the cycle.
Being a victim may is a safe place for many, because it is all they know. They get attention and sympathy. But remaining a victim just drains you of power and self respect and the love and power you seek cannot be obtained by playing the role of victim. Playing the victim is a protective mechanism and it becomes completely ingrained unfortunately. However, this thinking can imprison yourself to the very thing that you think protects you.
Is it as black and white as if I accept "this is how it is and how it always will be" then I am being a victim? I think there are plenty of women out there who get on with their daily lives and strive for greater things for themselves and the world around them but they don't kid themselves that things will ever really change. Looking at thousands of years of human development, yes, in some richer countries, women have it better than they've ever had it, but we still don't have true equality. And I don't think there's been any revolutionary thinking about this inequality in the last hundred years. In the last decade at least, I think we are taking backward steps. A return to the 1940's & 1950's if you will. It's no secret that conservatism and war have taken over the planet. And with those comes the need to control. And how are we controlling women? By keeping them busy with fripperies. And by revisiting and revising the issues that affect them.
Victim mentality is not a good thing to labor under and clearly I would support all people being able to live free of it.
But just because you have a victim mentality doesn't mean you aren't a victim or that you quite justifiably are unable to move forward at this time.
As far as I can see it is the duty of those who are no longer fettered by it to help show the way for those who are. And should some people not be able to move past it then we need to understand and accept that is how they are.
That moving forward may not include them, but that's ok.
At different stages in all our lives we are victims to a greater or lesser degree.
It is part of the human condition. If you can recover and move forward that's fantastic, if you are struggling I will help you, if you can't manage to move past it then I accept that is how you are.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
"Stereotypes are ideas held about members of particular groups, based solely on membership in that group. They are often considered to be negative or prejudicial and may be used to justify certain discriminatory behaviors. According to Sander Gilman, stereotypes, by definition, are never accurate representations, but a projection of an individual's fears onto others, regardless of the reality of others."
"Stereotype production is based on:
Simplification
Exaggeration
Generalization
Presentation of cultural attributes as being 'natural'
Unshakable belief in stability of stereotype
Racism, sexism, and other forms of discrimination
Historical factors
Guilt by association
can be negative or positive
can be beneficial or harmful (a harmful stereotype can still be positive about a group)"
then what is prejudice? i think that's a ridiculous and stupid definition of stereotype that, again, implies they are all evidence of people being bad/racist/sexist/whatever. besides, it's contradictory: often engative and based on fear rather, then later it can be positive or negative, harmful or beneficial. it's framing it... and it's symptomatic of bullshit pc-lovey-dovey 90s nonsense. "let's pretend everyone is a snowflake and unique and we cannot ever make observations about commonalities." NEVER accurate representations? that is a bold statement, and one that is patently false.
Hey, as soon as you are ready to descend on the Steve Pavlina message board as Animus and Anima, I'm there. You can play the role of a "darkworker" and I'll be "lightworker". lol
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
You are right Ahnimus. That is definitely up my alley. I wanted to make one thing clear, from the video. With the law of attraction, one needn't ask "God". It's a neutral, natural law. The law works based on our words and even our thoughts. So, when we declare our intent to get something, we set the law into play. That's why people focus on disciplining their thoughts, because our thoughts are also intentions that direct us unconsciously in certain directions.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
This mindset, though, makes you the victim. Personally, I'm not interested in being a victim. I think this is a bad cycle some tend to get caught up in and, therefor fulfill said stereotypes. For example, the profession I'm in is pretty much male dominated. However, I never focus on this fact and interestingly, I have been paid the same, if not more, than my male co-workers. That's because I did not expect anything less.
This doesn't negate the fact society is still a bit male dominated.
it doesn't make me a victim. and just like you i am not interested in being one. a history of past millenia shows we have been entrenched in a patriarchial society since the beginning. yes we do what we need to do. yes we manoeuvre so we position ourselves to gain full advantage. yes i take responsibilty for my own actions. sometimes to my detriment. i will never relinquish my personal power to a man. and i will never put myself in a position professionally, where it will result in a negative outcome for me.
the way angelica talks you'd think gender plays virtually no part within our society and if only women took responsibility for their actions it'd be all hunky dory. i don't blame men for the current status quo. i am fully aware it's been indoctrinated from the year dot. i know i'm in charge of my life. and so does everyone i come into contact with, or will come in contact with, male or female.
the way angelica talks you'd think gender plays virtually no part within our society and if only women took responsibility for their actions it'd be all hunky dory.
It sounds like you're doing some selective listening.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
then what is prejudice? i think that's a ridiculous and stupid definition of stereotype that, again, implies they are all evidence of people being bad/racist/sexist/whatever. besides, it's contradictory: often engative and based on fear rather, then later it can be positive or negative, harmful or beneficial. it's framing it... and it's symptomatic of bullshit pc-lovey-dovey 90s nonsense. "let's pretend everyone is a snowflake and unique and we cannot ever make observations about commonalities." NEVER accurate representations? that is a bold statement, and one that is patently false.
Both stereotyping and prejudice have the act of prejudging in common. A stereotype is a typing we believe to be true over a long period, being 'fixed'. As you say about the stuck up sorority girl....you give yourself permission to hold that to be true in of itself.
From Merriam-Webster: stereotype: something conforming to a fixed or general pattern; especially : a standardized mental picture that is held in common by members of a group and that represents an oversimplified opinion, prejudiced attitude, or uncritical judgment
A "positive" stereotype can be innacurate, fixed and prejudicial at the same time: "Stereotypes can be either positive ("black men are good at basketball") or negative ("women are bad drivers"). But most stereotypes tend to make us feel superior in some way to the person or group being stereotyped. Stereotypes ignore the uniqueness of individuals by painting all members of a group with the same brush." http://www.media-awareness.ca/english/special_initiatives/toolkit/stereotypes/what_are_stereotypes.cfm
edit: oh, and regarding "never accurate"...that is true if looked at in terms of the group one is typing, for example, all sorority girls are not "stuck-up" across the board. All black men are not good at basketball.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
A "positive" stereotype can be innacurate, fixed and prejudicial at the same time: "Stereotypes can be either positive ("black men are good at basketball") or negative ("women are bad drivers"). But most stereotypes tend to make us feel superior in some way to the person or group being stereotyped. Stereotypes ignore the uniqueness of individuals by painting all members of a group with the same brush." http://www.media-awareness.ca/english/special_initiatives/toolkit/stereotypes/what_are_stereotypes.cfm
edit: oh, and regarding "never accurate"...that is true if looked at in terms of the group one is typing, for example, all sorority girls are not "stuck-up" across the board. All black men are not good at basketball.
by this nonsense, all sociological studies should be discarded and outlawed, becos they are all inherently racist and sexist and prejudicial in daring to discover common trends among and between various ethnic groups and genders. how dare those bastards, right?
no, all black men are not good at basketball. but watch one NBA game and tell me how many black men vs. white men are playing. it IS true... on the whole, black people are better athletes, and this has been biologically supported (something about a particular muscle being much larger and stronger and leading to better jumping and running). nobody claims that this means all black people are great athletes or any white person is an inherently inferior athlete. anyone who does is PREJUDICED, not stereotyping. stereotyping would be expecting to get my ass kicked by a black guy on the court, but still being willing to play or have fun or not really care if that is found to be false.
regarding never accurate... the way that was written was NOT how you described. it read as in NO sorority girls are stuck up or NO black men are good at basketball... which is a far more ridiculous assertion than the stereotype itself. stereotypes do not say "all black men are inevitably better at basketball than any white man." they say "on the whole, black men are better basketball players." there is nothing wrong in that assertion. in fact, it is absolutely true and can easily be supported.
all sociological studies should be discarded and outlawed, becos they are all inherently racist and sexist and prejudicial in daring to discover common trends among and between various ethnic groups and genders. how dare those bastards, right?
Are you in any way saying that you believe critical discernment with an intent to learn is the same as a stereotype?
no, all black men are not good at basketball. but watch one NBA game and tell me how many black men vs. white men are playing. it IS true... on the whole, black people are better athletes, and this has been biologically supported (something about a particular muscle being much larger and stronger and leading to better jumping and running). nobody claims that this means all black people are great athletes or any white person is an inherently inferior athlete. anyone who does is PREJUDICED, not stereotyping. stereotyping would be expecting to get my ass kicked by a black guy on the court, but still being willing to play or have fun or not really care if that is found to be false.
My point that the statement that a stereotype is never true in it's sweeping nature stands. Stereotypes, apparently by definition, are non-critical-thinking shortcuts. In terms of "stuck-up" sorority girls, they are derogatory, judgmental and entitle people to project their own issues onto other and hence have a distinct "social ill" aspect to them. Apparently if you are talking about trends, and critical discernment etc. you are not talking about stereotypes but about realistic assessment.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Are you in any way saying that you believe critical discernment with an intent to learn is the same as a stereotype?
My point that the statement that a stereotype is never true in it's sweeping nature stands. Stereotypes, apparently by definition, are non-critical-thinking shortcuts. In terms of "stuck-up" sorority girls, they are derogatory, judgmental and entitle people to project their own issues onto other and hence have a distinct "social ill" aspect to them. Apparently if you are talking about trends, and critical discernment etc. you are not talking about stereotypes but about realistic assessment.
i believe a stereotype is only a shortcut based on such critical discernment, based on information known by the person holding it. it is non-critical thinking in the moment, but based on assessment or prior knowledge and experience.
you are not talking about stereotypes, you are talking about prejudice... one's desire to use such stereotypes to demean or marginalize someone else.
everyone is stereotypical and i dont care who you say you are. you all hold them. to paint them as something horrible and wrong only shames people into hiding them rather than being open and honest about them, which would facilitate non-defensive discussion about them and make them more flexible. the conflation of stereotyping with prejudice has only made our problems with prejudice and racism and sexism more entrenched, as people who are very good and reasonable are made to feel like bad people for their reasonable beliefs.
i believe a stereotype is only a shortcut based on such critical discernment, based on information known by the person holding it. it is non-critical thinking in the moment, but based on assessment or prior knowledge and experience.
Right...it's about what's in the person's head and their past, and not really about the reality before them. I agree. When one is OPEN to see, process and assess reality as it is before them, then that person is being realistic.
you are not talking about stereotypes, you are talking about prejudice... one's desire to use such stereotypes to demean or marginalize someone else.
Interestingly, I have changed my opinion on stereotypes based on the definitions I have found and posted here. Also interesting is that you are telling me I refer to something not stereotypes, when I am the one using and referring to various definitions. I look forward to seeing the objective sources that back your view re: stereotypes, specifically.
People are accountable for their misuse of stereotypes. If they are held accountable, and feel shamed, that is about shame issues that person holds. I've faced my own shame issues, and they are the root of the human condition and are only connected to an outside source when in fact the outside source is acting shaming. Accountability-holding is not shaming. If you refer to blame, that's another entire issue that, yes, indicates an unresolved personal issue with the person doing the blaming.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Right...it's about what's in the person's head and their past, and not really about the reality before them. I agree. When one is OPEN to see, process and assess reality as it is before them, then that person is being realistic.
Interestingly, I have changed my opinion on stereotypes based on the definitions I have found and posted here. Also interesting is that you are telling me I refer to something not stereotypes, when I am the one using and referring to various definitions. I look forward to seeing the objective sources that back your view re: stereotypes, specifically.
People are accountable for their misuse of stereotypes. If they are held accountable, and feel shamed, that is about shame issues that person holds. I've faced my own shame issues, and they are the root of the human condition and are only connected to an outside source when in fact the outside source is acting shaming. Accountability-holding is not shaming. If you refer to blame, that's another entire issue that, yes, indicates an unresolved personal issue with the person doing the blaming.
i have no desire to waste my time looking for sources. nor do i care if there are none. my point is, the definition is and should be wrong. stereotypes are the integration of sociological perceptions and there is nothing wrong with that. but pc folks like you treat anyone who has stereotypes like they are prejudiced, narrow-minded, and always wrong for it. this social environment of telling people they are bad for holding reasonable views is a bad one and counter-productive.
i have many stereotypes. i dont go to the south side of chicago... cos it's dangerous. if it's 2am and im alone and see a group of young black men approaching me, i get nervous. there's nothing wrong with that. statistically, it's pretty goddamn smart. now, if i meet a black person, do i assume they're a criminal? of course not. i have no expectations of their behavior. but i still hold those stereotypes in mind for appropriate decision-making.
you know how they say the genious borders insanity??? this board seems to prove that theory.. why can't we all just be whom it is we were cultured to be..( by our families friends and those whom share importance with us0, instead of a conceived notion or precipice of what would hope we'd be??? because otherwise we are just what you all claim we are.. stereotypes..
And this place is always crazy like that.. I always read here because there are soo many new and virtually enlightened points of view different from my own; this is interesting to me. But I always fear posting here for the backlash almost each and every post receives.. it's almost like you all are battling for first; when we are all the same, we share one link in common.. we are human beings.. cheer up folks.. you could all be dogs ya know??
( of course maybe if we were all dogs we'd get along better)
i have no desire to waste my time looking for sources. nor do i care if there are none. my point is, the definition is and should be wrong.
Yikes, the irony of arguing the point from your opinion/preconceptions, independent of the numerous external sources that say otherwise, on the topic of stereotypes.
but pc folks like you....
Whoops! more irony!
...but pc folks like you treat anyone who has stereotypes like they are prejudiced, narrow-minded, and always wrong for it.
And again!
Seriously, you're using this caricature style of argumentation so regularly that it somehow must be working for you. It looks like you are adopting it. I would be careful to not internalize it, if you haven't already.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
you know how they say the genious borders insanity??? this board seems to prove that theory.. why can't we all just be whom it is we were cultured to be..( by our families friends and those whom share importance with us0, instead of a conceived notion or precipice of what would hope we'd be??? because otherwise we are just what you all claim we are.. stereotypes..
And this place is always crazy like that.. I always read here because there are soo many new and virtually enlightened points of view different from my own; this is interesting to me. But I always fear posting here for the backlash almost each and every post receives.. it's almost like you all are battling for first; when we are all the same, we share one link in common.. we are human beings.. cheer up folks.. you could all be dogs ya know??
( of course maybe if we were all dogs we'd get along better)
Comments
Who am I? What day is it? :eek:
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
This thread has gone through so many incarnations I no longer know what it is about.
But I'll keep reading.
via Jeanie, such a pretty name.
And i'm sure Catefrancis has something to say about that.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
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I rarely get stirred up by anything replied to me here....
What was it that I said?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
but if most sorority girls are stuck up, then the stereotype is not invalid. it has been earned. the fact that sorority girl X is not does not mean the stereotype is not true, only that it does not apply to her. if one refuses to accept that she is not that way, it is no longer a stereotype about sorority girls, it is a prejudice against sorority girls. however, if one finds she does not fit the stereotype and accepts that, it means that what they have is a stereotype of sorority girls that is open to being proven wrong.
that's what im saying... if you cling to stereotypes without adapting, it is not really a stereotype. it is a prejudice.
"Stereotype production is based on:
Simplification
Exaggeration
Generalization
Presentation of cultural attributes as being 'natural'
Unshakable belief in stability of stereotype
Racism, sexism, and other forms of discrimination
Historical factors
Guilt by association
can be negative or positive
can be beneficial or harmful (a harmful stereotype can still be positive about a group)"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Is it as black and white as if I accept "this is how it is and how it always will be" then I am being a victim? I think there are plenty of women out there who get on with their daily lives and strive for greater things for themselves and the world around them but they don't kid themselves that things will ever really change. Looking at thousands of years of human development, yes, in some richer countries, women have it better than they've ever had it, but we still don't have true equality. And I don't think there's been any revolutionary thinking about this inequality in the last hundred years. In the last decade at least, I think we are taking backward steps. A return to the 1940's & 1950's if you will. It's no secret that conservatism and war have taken over the planet. And with those comes the need to control. And how are we controlling women? By keeping them busy with fripperies. And by revisiting and revising the issues that affect them.
Victim mentality is not a good thing to labor under and clearly I would support all people being able to live free of it.
But just because you have a victim mentality doesn't mean you aren't a victim or that you quite justifiably are unable to move forward at this time.
As far as I can see it is the duty of those who are no longer fettered by it to help show the way for those who are. And should some people not be able to move past it then we need to understand and accept that is how they are.
That moving forward may not include them, but that's ok.
At different stages in all our lives we are victims to a greater or lesser degree.
It is part of the human condition. If you can recover and move forward that's fantastic, if you are struggling I will help you, if you can't manage to move past it then I accept that is how you are.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Well if you work it out can you enlighten me please?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVYNoNR6VUk
Angelica, you will like this
then what is prejudice? i think that's a ridiculous and stupid definition of stereotype that, again, implies they are all evidence of people being bad/racist/sexist/whatever. besides, it's contradictory: often engative and based on fear rather, then later it can be positive or negative, harmful or beneficial. it's framing it... and it's symptomatic of bullshit pc-lovey-dovey 90s nonsense. "let's pretend everyone is a snowflake and unique and we cannot ever make observations about commonalities." NEVER accurate representations? that is a bold statement, and one that is patently false.
Ah! Finally something I understand!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Hey, as soon as you are ready to descend on the Steve Pavlina message board as Animus and Anima, I'm there.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
it doesn't make me a victim. and just like you i am not interested in being one. a history of past millenia shows we have been entrenched in a patriarchial society since the beginning. yes we do what we need to do. yes we manoeuvre so we position ourselves to gain full advantage. yes i take responsibilty for my own actions. sometimes to my detriment. i will never relinquish my personal power to a man. and i will never put myself in a position professionally, where it will result in a negative outcome for me.
the way angelica talks you'd think gender plays virtually no part within our society and if only women took responsibility for their actions it'd be all hunky dory. i don't blame men for the current status quo. i am fully aware it's been indoctrinated from the year dot. i know i'm in charge of my life. and so does everyone i come into contact with, or will come in contact with, male or female.
something to say about what exactly?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
perhaps. and i take responsibility for that .
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
From Merriam-Webster: stereotype: something conforming to a fixed or general pattern; especially : a standardized mental picture that is held in common by members of a group and that represents an oversimplified opinion, prejudiced attitude, or uncritical judgment
A "positive" stereotype can be innacurate, fixed and prejudicial at the same time: "Stereotypes can be either positive ("black men are good at basketball") or negative ("women are bad drivers"). But most stereotypes tend to make us feel superior in some way to the person or group being stereotyped. Stereotypes ignore the uniqueness of individuals by painting all members of a group with the same brush."
http://www.media-awareness.ca/english/special_initiatives/toolkit/stereotypes/what_are_stereotypes.cfm
edit: oh, and regarding "never accurate"...that is true if looked at in terms of the group one is typing, for example, all sorority girls are not "stuck-up" across the board. All black men are not good at basketball.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
and white men can jump.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3TKPDXvHqE
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
by this nonsense, all sociological studies should be discarded and outlawed, becos they are all inherently racist and sexist and prejudicial in daring to discover common trends among and between various ethnic groups and genders. how dare those bastards, right?
no, all black men are not good at basketball. but watch one NBA game and tell me how many black men vs. white men are playing. it IS true... on the whole, black people are better athletes, and this has been biologically supported (something about a particular muscle being much larger and stronger and leading to better jumping and running). nobody claims that this means all black people are great athletes or any white person is an inherently inferior athlete. anyone who does is PREJUDICED, not stereotyping. stereotyping would be expecting to get my ass kicked by a black guy on the court, but still being willing to play or have fun or not really care if that is found to be false.
regarding never accurate... the way that was written was NOT how you described. it read as in NO sorority girls are stuck up or NO black men are good at basketball... which is a far more ridiculous assertion than the stereotype itself. stereotypes do not say "all black men are inevitably better at basketball than any white man." they say "on the whole, black men are better basketball players." there is nothing wrong in that assertion. in fact, it is absolutely true and can easily be supported.
Are you in any way saying that you believe critical discernment with an intent to learn is the same as a stereotype?
My point that the statement that a stereotype is never true in it's sweeping nature stands. Stereotypes, apparently by definition, are non-critical-thinking shortcuts. In terms of "stuck-up" sorority girls, they are derogatory, judgmental and entitle people to project their own issues onto other and hence have a distinct "social ill" aspect to them. Apparently if you are talking about trends, and critical discernment etc. you are not talking about stereotypes but about realistic assessment.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
i believe a stereotype is only a shortcut based on such critical discernment, based on information known by the person holding it. it is non-critical thinking in the moment, but based on assessment or prior knowledge and experience.
you are not talking about stereotypes, you are talking about prejudice... one's desire to use such stereotypes to demean or marginalize someone else.
everyone is stereotypical and i dont care who you say you are. you all hold them. to paint them as something horrible and wrong only shames people into hiding them rather than being open and honest about them, which would facilitate non-defensive discussion about them and make them more flexible. the conflation of stereotyping with prejudice has only made our problems with prejudice and racism and sexism more entrenched, as people who are very good and reasonable are made to feel like bad people for their reasonable beliefs.
Interestingly, I have changed my opinion on stereotypes based on the definitions I have found and posted here. Also interesting is that you are telling me I refer to something not stereotypes, when I am the one using and referring to various definitions. I look forward to seeing the objective sources that back your view re: stereotypes, specifically.
People are accountable for their misuse of stereotypes. If they are held accountable, and feel shamed, that is about shame issues that person holds. I've faced my own shame issues, and they are the root of the human condition and are only connected to an outside source when in fact the outside source is acting shaming. Accountability-holding is not shaming. If you refer to blame, that's another entire issue that, yes, indicates an unresolved personal issue with the person doing the blaming.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
i have no desire to waste my time looking for sources. nor do i care if there are none. my point is, the definition is and should be wrong. stereotypes are the integration of sociological perceptions and there is nothing wrong with that. but pc folks like you treat anyone who has stereotypes like they are prejudiced, narrow-minded, and always wrong for it. this social environment of telling people they are bad for holding reasonable views is a bad one and counter-productive.
i have many stereotypes. i dont go to the south side of chicago... cos it's dangerous. if it's 2am and im alone and see a group of young black men approaching me, i get nervous. there's nothing wrong with that. statistically, it's pretty goddamn smart. now, if i meet a black person, do i assume they're a criminal? of course not. i have no expectations of their behavior. but i still hold those stereotypes in mind for appropriate decision-making.
And this place is always crazy like that.. I always read here because there are soo many new and virtually enlightened points of view different from my own; this is interesting to me. But I always fear posting here for the backlash almost each and every post receives.. it's almost like you all are battling for first; when we are all the same, we share one link in common.. we are human beings.. cheer up folks.. you could all be dogs ya know??
( of course maybe if we were all dogs we'd get along better)
Whoops! more irony!
And again!
Seriously, you're using this caricature style of argumentation so regularly that it somehow must be working for you. It looks like you are adopting it. I would be careful to not internalize it, if you haven't already.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
can i be a squirrel?