Yikes, the irony of arguing the point from your opinion/preconceptions, independent of the numerous external sources that say otherwise, on the topic of stereotypes.
Whoops! more irony!
And again!
Seriously, you're using this caricature style of argumentation so regularly that it somehow must be working for you. It looks like you are adopting it. I would be careful to not internalize it, if you haven't already.
and way to point out disapproval of my personality rather than confront the truth of my points. i dont even know what your last statement means. but i do know that every definition you have provided has said stereotypes are negative and prejudicial and your statements have been supportive of this view that stereotypes inevitably are demeaning and that the people who hold them are dismissively judgmental. this is simply not true.
and way to point out disapproval of my personality rather than confront the truth of my points.
I'm pointing out the fallacy of your points--you are using stereotypes to prove your point ("pc folks like you", which first of all is inaccurate). That is NOT your personality. Bad habits do not equal a personality. The problem is it's no longer working for me with you, here, because you are disregarding external, objective sources, refusing to provide your own, and expecting your stereotypical and prejudicial opinions to be considered valid. Well, you're entitled to your opinion.
Back to shame: humans have shame for a function that is beyond the shadow aspect where shame goes wrong. Healthy shame indicates to us our human faults so that we recognize our limits, and flaws and adapt and adjust rather than perpetuate errors.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I'm pointing out the fallacy of your points--you are using stereotypes to prove your point ("pc folks like you", which first of all is inaccurate). That is NOT your personality. Bad habits do not equal a personality. The problem is it's no longer working for me with you, here, because you are disregarding external, objective sources, refusing to provide your own, and expecting your stereotypical and prejudicial opinions to be considered valid. Well, you're entitled to your opinion.
Back to shame: humans have shame for a function that is beyond the shadow aspect where shame goes wrong. Healthy shame indicates to us our human faults so that we recognize our limits, and flaws and adapt and adjust rather than perpetuate errors.
and what about unhealthy shame? why is it so awful that a white guy avoid going into south side chicago alone on a weekend night becos he has a stereotype about the south side being very dangerous? yet he is made to feel guilty about that and is portrayed as racist for it. this is bad for everyone. it allows south side chicagoans to deny that there are problems in their neighborhoods and blame it on racism and forces the white kid to bottle his feelings up so that they only come out among people who might share his thoughts, which are more vitriolic for the bottling. then you have a negative cycle... white guy scared of the ghetto, only allowed to speak it to another angry white guy, both fueling each other's anger, inflating the stereotypes, and leading to REAL racism and the appeal of groups like neo-nazis... they are a result of people who have no outlet for their fear and anger except those who will feed those emotions and convince them the stereotypes are actually true. this is distorting an honest perception into a basis for hatred.
im disregarding your dictionary definition from webster becos the core of my argument is saying i think that is a bad way to define it. i dont have my own objective sources becos there are none and i am arguing for a new understanding of stereotyping and prejudice. that does not mean my points are invalid, just that they are not yet accepted. and i believe this is becos everyone is terrified of admitting that stereotypes are normal and inevitable and focus on eradicating ALL stereotypes (impossible and ridiculous) instead of honestly discussing how to live with them and discern harmless stereotypes from dangerous ones.
and what about unhealthy shame? why is it so awful that a white guy avoid going into south side chicago alone on a weekend night becos he has a stereotype about the south side being very dangerous? yet he is made to feel guilty about that...
im disregarding your dictionary definition from webster becos the core of my argument is saying i think that is a bad way to define it. i dont have my own objective sources becos there are none and i am arguing for a new understanding of stereotyping and prejudice. that does not mean my points are invalid, just that they are not yet accepted. and i believe this is becos everyone is terrified of admitting that stereotypes are normal and inevitable and focus on eradicating ALL stereotypes (impossible and ridiculous) instead of honestly discussing how to live with them and discern harmless stereotypes from dangerous ones.
You may have valid points. I have better things to do than weed through the stereotypes to get to them.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Wow...you must listen to alot of Dr. Laura, don't you?!
who is she? i know the name, but what would her take be on my dream wife?
i made a semi-intelligent post outlining my views (which are NOT advocating inequality by the way) earlier, but dont really wanna look for it.
*edit* got it:
"im curious what stance you think i promote here. im not even sure i have one. nor do i see what relevance marriage rates would have on this survery. free love was a failed experiment and the conservatism we both dislike is simply a reaction to the excess of the free love movement. i dont doubt things are more equal now than they have been, nor that they will continue to be equal. but equal does not mean "the same." and all i posted this for was discussion about at what point does the pursuit of being the same hurt our happiness? equal opportunity and access is important to have as an option, but does it mean we should continue to choose options that make us unhappy just becos they are there? im not saying women should stay home and men should go to work, but i am saying women should not feel they have to work a job they dont want to prove they are independent, and men should not be prohibitied from staying home and raising kids becos they feel it is unmasculine. it should be about breaking down barriers to happiness and fulfillment, not replacing one form of expectations with another."
i want sex upon demand and no inane chatter. that's what your girlfriends are for. other than, you can do whatever you damn well please.
Ever live with a woman before?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Which word is "the" oxymoronic to ?? You couldn't possibly be referring to any other conjunction in there.
Hey, girls, did you catch my reference to MOloch the funky computer demon in that other thread. I have nevere seen that episode before. It was pretty funny. I jhave seen him countless times on teh beginning montage, but never knew where he fitted. Bet the costume guys were pisssed he got killed off so quick after they designed such a neat monny.
Saw Darla get dusted last night too. Nasssssssssssty !!
there are smart, witty, and loving males in the world that value you beyond description. and some of us are masculine enough to show it without hiding behind some bullshit "manly" facade that claims to treat you simply as an object for sexual pleasure, or a conquest. some of us value your brain and soul, as well as your beauty.
the smarter and more independant the woman, the sexier she is
Yup. It always frustrates me when I hear about gender equality, but then I have to carry the heavier bags "cause I'm the guy". Or, its not ok to hit girls... Or the guy has to pay for the date (which my girlfriend and I don't do, we split)...
Make up your minds.
i think y'all need to "age" a bit, then you'll see that there ARE in fact differences in the way men & women relate to the world, and in their physical and emotional abilities. women tend to be less physically but more psychologically strong; women are more nurturing, men are more aggressive; women bear more of the childrearing burden because, well, they're better at it... these are generalizations, of course, but generalizations are generally true.
so of course, i want to get paid exactly what a man would get paid for the same exact job, but i don't think it's a crime to enjoy being treated tenderly by a man. it's not a double standard- it's an acceptance of certain realities and a comfort level in the differences between men and women.
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
i think y'all need to "age" a bit, then you'll see that there ARE in fact differences in the way men & women relate to the world, and in their physical and emotional abilities. women tend to be less physically but more psychologically strong; women are more nurturing, men are more aggressive; women bear more of the childrearing burden because, well, they're better at it... these are generalizations, of course, but generalizations are generally true.
so of course, i want to get paid exactly what a man would get paid for the same exact job, but i don't think it's a crime to enjoy being treated tenderly by a man. it's not a double standard- it's an acceptance of certain realities and a comfort level in the differences between men and women.
I generally agree with you.
In my opinion, the negative findings pertaining to equal gender roles in the original article can be attributed to the stress and pressure of people striving to be what they are not. I see women striving to be equal. It's great to ask that the opportunities are out there for us. Meaning that we have fair avenues through which we stretch and develop our potential. I have found much peace and my actual potential by focussing on what is right for me, including my biological and psychological differences. In some categories I can be more effective than a man. And yet that is not at all something on my radar screen. It's not realistic in being the best that I can be that I compare myself to someone elses progress. In the way my boyfriend and I navigate our differences--like where he'll go out of his way to carry the heavier groceries, it works effectively for us, and with the least energy expended, meeting our needs. By minimizing that effort, using gender roles that evolved for reasons, we have more energy freed up to become more and more of who we are, including outletting our dreams.
I agree with what Jeanie said earlier on the subject, it is about agreement and negotiation. And if the situation does not work for one or the other, it's up to them to seek resolution of what is not working, by coming to a new agreement.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
there are smart, witty, and loving males in the world that value you beyond description. and some of us are masculine enough to show it without hiding behind some bullshit "manly" facade that claims to treat you simply as an object for sexual pleasure, or a conquest. some of us value your brain and soul, as well as your beauty.
the smarter and more independant the woman, the sexier she is
ladies, this man is desperate to get laid and will play his "im so different and sensitive" schtick as long as it takes for you to let him sodomize you.
ladies, this man is desperate to get laid and will play his "im so different and sensitive" schtick as long as it takes for you to let him sodomize you.
yeah, but then he'll get very whiny and clingy afterwards and you'll have to give up all your guy friends cos they make him nervous. such guys want the sodomy, but then they worry that if you were willing to do it with them... you're probly super horny and he can't fulfill you.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
there are smart, witty, and loving males in the world that value you beyond description. and some of us are masculine enough to show it without hiding behind some bullshit "manly" facade that claims to treat you simply as an object for sexual pleasure, or a conquest. some of us value your brain and soul, as well as your beauty.
the smarter and more independant the woman, the sexier she is
Sounds good, but you'll still argue with me right?
ladies, this man is desperate to get laid and will play his "im so different and sensitive" schtick as long as it takes for you to let him sodomize you.
why am I getting the impression that you are obsessed with anal sex?
The only reason I don't like it, is the negative connotation, it sounds deragatory. Because it's based on Sodom from the Bible. Anal Sex is much more pleasant to my brain.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
The only reason I don't like it, is the negative connotation, it sounds deragatory. Because it's based on Sodom from the Bible. Anal Sex is much more pleasant to my brain.
then you're doing it wrong ryan.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Comments
and way to point out disapproval of my personality rather than confront the truth of my points. i dont even know what your last statement means. but i do know that every definition you have provided has said stereotypes are negative and prejudicial and your statements have been supportive of this view that stereotypes inevitably are demeaning and that the people who hold them are dismissively judgmental. this is simply not true.
Back to shame: humans have shame for a function that is beyond the shadow aspect where shame goes wrong. Healthy shame indicates to us our human faults so that we recognize our limits, and flaws and adapt and adjust rather than perpetuate errors.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Hehe:D Sorry, I missed the party. I had to take off yesterday after that post and run some errands.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
and what about unhealthy shame? why is it so awful that a white guy avoid going into south side chicago alone on a weekend night becos he has a stereotype about the south side being very dangerous? yet he is made to feel guilty about that and is portrayed as racist for it. this is bad for everyone. it allows south side chicagoans to deny that there are problems in their neighborhoods and blame it on racism and forces the white kid to bottle his feelings up so that they only come out among people who might share his thoughts, which are more vitriolic for the bottling. then you have a negative cycle... white guy scared of the ghetto, only allowed to speak it to another angry white guy, both fueling each other's anger, inflating the stereotypes, and leading to REAL racism and the appeal of groups like neo-nazis... they are a result of people who have no outlet for their fear and anger except those who will feed those emotions and convince them the stereotypes are actually true. this is distorting an honest perception into a basis for hatred.
im disregarding your dictionary definition from webster becos the core of my argument is saying i think that is a bad way to define it. i dont have my own objective sources becos there are none and i am arguing for a new understanding of stereotyping and prejudice. that does not mean my points are invalid, just that they are not yet accepted. and i believe this is becos everyone is terrified of admitting that stereotypes are normal and inevitable and focus on eradicating ALL stereotypes (impossible and ridiculous) instead of honestly discussing how to live with them and discern harmless stereotypes from dangerous ones.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
P.S. And, no I didn't care to read through 35 pages of previous posts for the answer. Sorry...I'm a little busy AT WORK...ruining my health.
i want sex upon demand and no inane chatter. that's what your girlfriends are for. other than, you can do whatever you damn well please.
Wow...you must listen to alot of Dr. Laura, don't you?!
who is she? i know the name, but what would her take be on my dream wife?
i made a semi-intelligent post outlining my views (which are NOT advocating inequality by the way) earlier, but dont really wanna look for it.
*edit* got it:
"im curious what stance you think i promote here. im not even sure i have one. nor do i see what relevance marriage rates would have on this survery. free love was a failed experiment and the conservatism we both dislike is simply a reaction to the excess of the free love movement. i dont doubt things are more equal now than they have been, nor that they will continue to be equal. but equal does not mean "the same." and all i posted this for was discussion about at what point does the pursuit of being the same hurt our happiness? equal opportunity and access is important to have as an option, but does it mean we should continue to choose options that make us unhappy just becos they are there? im not saying women should stay home and men should go to work, but i am saying women should not feel they have to work a job they dont want to prove they are independent, and men should not be prohibitied from staying home and raising kids becos they feel it is unmasculine. it should be about breaking down barriers to happiness and fulfillment, not replacing one form of expectations with another."
Ever live with a woman before?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
interesting conor. i wouldnt mind sex on dmand and the absence of dumbarse conversation either.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
The perfect man!!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
oh jeanie. you know that's an oxymoron.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Which word is "the" oxymoronic to ?? You couldn't possibly be referring to any other conjunction in there.
Hey, girls, did you catch my reference to MOloch the funky computer demon in that other thread. I have nevere seen that episode before. It was pretty funny. I jhave seen him countless times on teh beginning montage, but never knew where he fitted. Bet the costume guys were pisssed he got killed off so quick after they designed such a neat monny.
Saw Darla get dusted last night too. Nasssssssssssty !!
the smarter and more independant the woman, the sexier she is
i think y'all need to "age" a bit, then you'll see that there ARE in fact differences in the way men & women relate to the world, and in their physical and emotional abilities. women tend to be less physically but more psychologically strong; women are more nurturing, men are more aggressive; women bear more of the childrearing burden because, well, they're better at it... these are generalizations, of course, but generalizations are generally true.
so of course, i want to get paid exactly what a man would get paid for the same exact job, but i don't think it's a crime to enjoy being treated tenderly by a man. it's not a double standard- it's an acceptance of certain realities and a comfort level in the differences between men and women.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
In my opinion, the negative findings pertaining to equal gender roles in the original article can be attributed to the stress and pressure of people striving to be what they are not. I see women striving to be equal. It's great to ask that the opportunities are out there for us. Meaning that we have fair avenues through which we stretch and develop our potential. I have found much peace and my actual potential by focussing on what is right for me, including my biological and psychological differences. In some categories I can be more effective than a man. And yet that is not at all something on my radar screen. It's not realistic in being the best that I can be that I compare myself to someone elses progress. In the way my boyfriend and I navigate our differences--like where he'll go out of his way to carry the heavier groceries, it works effectively for us, and with the least energy expended, meeting our needs. By minimizing that effort, using gender roles that evolved for reasons, we have more energy freed up to become more and more of who we are, including outletting our dreams.
I agree with what Jeanie said earlier on the subject, it is about agreement and negotiation. And if the situation does not work for one or the other, it's up to them to seek resolution of what is not working, by coming to a new agreement.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
ladies, this man is desperate to get laid and will play his "im so different and sensitive" schtick as long as it takes for you to let him sodomize you.
You say that like it's a bad thing
yeah, but then he'll get very whiny and clingy afterwards and you'll have to give up all your guy friends cos they make him nervous. such guys want the sodomy, but then they worry that if you were willing to do it with them... you're probly super horny and he can't fulfill you.
*
Aaah, strangely, I feel better now!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Sounds good, but you'll still argue with me right?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
why am I getting the impression that you are obsessed with anal sex?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
you say that like it's a bad thing jeanie.
yeah we know. we've been through this before. fact remains ryan, sodomy is a word. it has a meaning so we're going to use it when appropriate.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
not bad, interesting!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
yes, very interesting i'd say.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
The only reason I don't like it, is the negative connotation, it sounds deragatory. Because it's based on Sodom from the Bible. Anal Sex is much more pleasant to my brain.
then you're doing it wrong ryan.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Unless he's got his head up his ass.