I'd like to go a step further from my last response. I completely agree that I seek resolution outside of the norm. That's what Ahnimus and I are talking about--going being the social norms. I don't see a frantic need to convince anyone to do so. I know society is fine just the way it is. However, the bottom line here is when someone uses a lack of understanding as justification of unbalanced behaviour or unfair/unacceptable behaviour, there are reasons, and there are ways to progress and resolve the issues. The ways are found beyond the initial behaviours that cause the problem. We are responsible for our lacks, mistakes, and problems. When we act these behaviours out, we get called on them, one way or another.
How do we explain, then, those women that have torn down these barriers to become successful and powerful? Why are there women today that have been unaffected in their careers & life by 'oppressive male' dominance? I think these women are successful because they didn't subscribe to such notions and did not let it define them or their potential. Yes, there is still an imbalance. But, I feel it is dangerous to 'play the victim'. By playing the victim, you (not you personally, in general) remain in your current situation and shift personal responsibility. Saying, 'we don't hold the power and never will' is a grim outlook and I have no doubt that prediction will come to fruition if repeated to yourself over and over.
It is hard not to get frustrated, I know that from experience. But I have found that when I refuse assume the victim role, I feel more in control of my destiny.
I think some of those women had to fight very hard to get where they are.
And I doubt if you asked them that all of them would say that they had been unaffected. But I still believe that there's not enough women in these situations. I don't think it's because they aren't trying.
I'm not saying that some women haven't made some fantastic inroads and certainly things have changed. BUT if you take the whole of the planet.
NOT just western society and if you also look at the poorer educated, lower socio economic areas of the western world, you will find that women are in some very difficult situations, and they don't have power over their world.
This is also the case for men, but you only have to look at the heirachy to know that women come second. I completely agree that refusing to take the "victim" role is very empowering and can motivate you forward. BUT it's easy for us in our cushy lives to have the good fortune to have made that choice. If you are a women, from a poor background, with little education, then all you are thinking about is food on the table and how to get by. You don't have time to see yourself as anything. I know I'm lucky because I get to enjoy the life that I have and I have the freedom to choose how to live my life. But that is because I am educated and I have had opportunity.
The fact remains that women are second class citizens in many, many parts of the world. And that sexism is still alive and well even in my lucky part of it.
And that's not blaming men. I like men.
lol. I'm afraid I'm going to have to pass on that gue.
Oh, man.
See...I think I see what happened here.
I wasn't offering. I was making humor. And, somehow, in the course of the morning, with my posts, I couldn't afford the humor.
I think some of those women had to fight very hard to get where they are.
And I doubt if you asked them that all of them would say that they had been unaffected. But I still believe that there's not enough women in these situations. I don't think it's because they aren't trying.
I'm not saying that some women haven't made some fantastic inroads and certainly things have changed. BUT if you take the whole of the planet.
NOT just western society and if you also look at the poorer educated, lower socio economic areas of the western world, you will find that women are in some very difficult situations, and they don't have power over their world.
This is also the case for men, but you only have to look at the heirachy to know that women come second. I completely agree that refusing to take the "victim" role is very empowering and can motivate you forward. BUT it's easy for us in our cushy lives to have the good fortune to have made that choice. If you are a women, from a poor background, with little education, then all you are thinking about is food on the table and how to get by. You don't have time to see yourself as anything. I know I'm lucky because I get to enjoy the life that I have and I have the freedom to choose how to live my life. But that is because I am educated and I have had opportunity.
The fact remains that women are second class citizens in many, many parts of the world. And that sexism is still alive and well even in my lucky part of it.
And that's not blaming men. I like men.
I don't disagree with anything you've said above. And yes, it is harder for women in other parts of the world that deal with poverty. All I'm saying is we play into this discrimination when we 'play the victim'. I would be careful not to make statements like, 'this is how it is and how it will always be'. If I sit and stew about how men get all the advantages (and I have stewed over this!) then I fall into the 'oppressed' category. I refuse to be a victim and continue the cycle.
Being a victim may is a safe place for many, because it is all they know. They get attention and sympathy. But remaining a victim just drains you of power and self respect and the love and power you seek cannot be obtained by playing the role of victim. Playing the victim is a protective mechanism and it becomes completely ingrained unfortunately. However, this thinking can imprison yourself to the very thing that you think protects you.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
See...I think I see what happened here.
I wasn't offering. I was making humor. And, somehow, in the course of the morning, with my posts, I couldn't afford the humor.
Where's FFG? He knows about this sort of thing.
And I took it as humor and responded in kind. I guess my humor was lost as well.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
And I doubt if you asked them that all of them would say that they had been unaffected. But I still believe that there's not enough women in these situations. I don't think it's because they aren't trying.
Of course all women are affected. I would not suggest women have it easy at all. Life is filled with challenges that we can learn to overcome as we unfold as who we are.
There are not enough women in positions of power. And we're fully capable. I say that women hold themselves back just as much as men hold us back.
I fully, and very much realize that as a strong woman, one faces distinct challenges. First off, there are many guys who want to "put you in your place". I get this all the time. It's a false position, though. It is about the guy and his own issues, and has no actual power over me, unless I accept his efforts. I continue to learn to rise beyond this.
Ultimately, though, male or female, it comes down to the "pecking order" in ways. And men have to face these power struggles, too. They "have to" accept what roles they are able to eke out in the pecking order, just like we do. Yes, it bugs me that in order to get valued and respected on the male terms, that I have had to hone my skills and align with them. Interestingly, though, due to this dynamic both women and minorities are known to develop a stronger sixth sense and creative abiliities, because we really learn to work that system, unlike the stereotypical (lol) white male who the system is designed for. For example, myself and other women on this board have talked privately about how interestingly, we approach these subjects through logic because we would not be taken seriously with emotional or intuitive arguments. We step out of what comes as naturally, in order to do what it takes to be heard. More power to us when we do so, if we can hone more balanced intelligence. The pay off is that we develop ourselves to greater degrees and we get positive feedback which encourages the process. Similarily, I definitely give the men I know positive feedback when they face and deal with emotional issues and similarly become more "balanced".
I certainly don't think women are held back for lack of trying. We're held back because we are evolutionarily where we are. At the same time, when we learn more and more what we are up against, and find more and more of our authentic power, look out!
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Of course all women are affected. I would not suggest women have it easy at all. Life is filled with challenges that we can learn to overcome as we unfold as who we are.
There are not enough women in positions of power. And we're fully capable. I say that women hold themselves back just as much as men hold us back.
I fully, and very much realize that as a strong woman, one faces distinct challenges. First off, there are many guys who want to "put you in your place". I get this all the time. It's a false position, though. It is about the guy and his own issues, and has no actual power over me, unless I accept his efforts. I continue to learn to rise beyond this.
Ultimately, though, male or female, it comes down to the "pecking order" in ways. And men have to face these power struggles, too. They "have to" accept what roles they are able to eke out in the pecking order, just like we do. Yes, it bugs me that in order to get valued and respected on the male terms, that I have had to hone my skills and align with them. Interestingly, though, due to this dynamic both women and minorities are known to develop a stronger sixth sense and creative abiliities, because we really learn to work that system, unlike the stereotypical (lol) white male who the system is designed for. For example, myself and other women on this board have talked privately about how interestingly, we approach these subjects through logic because we would not be taken seriously with emotional or intuitive arguments. We step out of what comes as naturally, in order to do what it takes to be heard. More power to us when we do so, if we can hone more balanced intelligence. The pay off is that we develop ourselves to greater degrees and we get positive feedback which encourages the process. Similarily, I definitely give the men I know positive feedback when they face and deal with emotional issues and similarly become more "balanced".
I certainly don't think women are held back for lack of trying. We're held back because we are evolutionarily where we are. At the same time, when we learn more and more what we are up against, and find more and more of our authentic power, look out!
I always thought you came from a more spiritual-sided perspective than a feminist one.
What? Dominatrix remedies? What is that exactly and how does it apply to angelica's posts?
That doesn't sound much like Daniel Boone to me. You know, he met his wife, Rebecca, while out hunting one night in the woods. He swears, from the light of his lamp, her eyes glowed.... damn near shot her with his musket.
"A Swedish government study finds a "trade-off between gender equality … and public health." The study compared absenteeism, disability, and life expectancy data among nearly 300 municipalities. It checked the data against nine indicators of equality in public and private employment, such as average income and the percentages of men and women in executive jobs. Result: "Gender equality … correlated with poorer health for both men and women." Researchers' theories: 1) Women have taken on more male burdens, but men haven't reciprocated, so women are overburdened. 2) Men suffer from having "lost many of their old privileges." 3) Women have "greater opportunities for risky behavior as a result of increased income." Conservative spin: Told you so. Liberal spin: It's not real equality till men do their part. (Previous update: Housework prevents breast cancer. For Human Nature's takes on male-female differences in violence, child abuse, and vengeance, click here, here, and here.)"
This study totally discounts the economic variables regarding...economics. This isn't a gender issue.
I don't disagree with anything you've said above. And yes, it is harder for women in other parts of the world that deal with poverty. All I'm saying is we play into this discrimination when we 'play the victim'. I would be careful not to make statements like, 'this is how it is and how it will always be'. If I sit and stew about how men get all the advantages (and I have stewed over this!) then I fall into the 'oppressed' category. I refuse to be a victim and continue the cycle.
Being a victim may is a safe place for many, because it is all they know. They get attention and sympathy. But remaining a victim just drains you of power and self respect and the love and power you seek cannot be obtained by playing the role of victim. Playing the victim is a protective mechanism and it becomes completely ingrained unfortunately. However, this thinking can imprison yourself to the very thing that you think protects you.
I missed this before. Again, nice....the part about playing the victim relates to what I was saying, as well. We receive a payoff. We get attention, we feel justified for our position, etc. And ultimately we accept this pay-off above seeking out our dreams.
I just don't buy that it is someone else's fault. We are responsible for our unconscious decisions, and the consequences we accept for ourselves. And we get those consequences at all times. We have no choice but to live with them. Unfortunately, it's not anyone else's fault. Others are, however, responsible for their poor choices and the consequences of those, though. So ultimately we all choose, and we all get the consequences.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Comments
Behaviours aren't the problem.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Ha ha, come on now, gue! :rolleyes:
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Sometimes, I'm God.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
:rolleyes: not impressed, try again.........
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I think some of those women had to fight very hard to get where they are.
And I doubt if you asked them that all of them would say that they had been unaffected. But I still believe that there's not enough women in these situations. I don't think it's because they aren't trying.
I'm not saying that some women haven't made some fantastic inroads and certainly things have changed. BUT if you take the whole of the planet.
NOT just western society and if you also look at the poorer educated, lower socio economic areas of the western world, you will find that women are in some very difficult situations, and they don't have power over their world.
This is also the case for men, but you only have to look at the heirachy to know that women come second. I completely agree that refusing to take the "victim" role is very empowering and can motivate you forward. BUT it's easy for us in our cushy lives to have the good fortune to have made that choice. If you are a women, from a poor background, with little education, then all you are thinking about is food on the table and how to get by. You don't have time to see yourself as anything. I know I'm lucky because I get to enjoy the life that I have and I have the freedom to choose how to live my life. But that is because I am educated and I have had opportunity.
The fact remains that women are second class citizens in many, many parts of the world. And that sexism is still alive and well even in my lucky part of it.
And that's not blaming men. I like men.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I think ahnimus got over it: the hierarchical 'god'. I swear i think i saw him get past that right here on the AMT.
you're smarter than to think that i would try to impress you with god, baraka. if you want a picture of my shlong, well, that's another matter.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
lol. I'm afraid I'm going to have to pass on that gue.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
See...I think I see what happened here.
I wasn't offering. I was making humor. And, somehow, in the course of the morning, with my posts, I couldn't afford the humor.
Where's FFG? He knows about this sort of thing.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I don't disagree with anything you've said above. And yes, it is harder for women in other parts of the world that deal with poverty. All I'm saying is we play into this discrimination when we 'play the victim'. I would be careful not to make statements like, 'this is how it is and how it will always be'. If I sit and stew about how men get all the advantages (and I have stewed over this!) then I fall into the 'oppressed' category. I refuse to be a victim and continue the cycle.
Being a victim may is a safe place for many, because it is all they know. They get attention and sympathy. But remaining a victim just drains you of power and self respect and the love and power you seek cannot be obtained by playing the role of victim. Playing the victim is a protective mechanism and it becomes completely ingrained unfortunately. However, this thinking can imprison yourself to the very thing that you think protects you.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
And I took it as humor and responded in kind. I guess my humor was lost as well.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
There are not enough women in positions of power. And we're fully capable. I say that women hold themselves back just as much as men hold us back.
I fully, and very much realize that as a strong woman, one faces distinct challenges. First off, there are many guys who want to "put you in your place". I get this all the time. It's a false position, though. It is about the guy and his own issues, and has no actual power over me, unless I accept his efforts. I continue to learn to rise beyond this.
Ultimately, though, male or female, it comes down to the "pecking order" in ways. And men have to face these power struggles, too. They "have to" accept what roles they are able to eke out in the pecking order, just like we do. Yes, it bugs me that in order to get valued and respected on the male terms, that I have had to hone my skills and align with them. Interestingly, though, due to this dynamic both women and minorities are known to develop a stronger sixth sense and creative abiliities, because we really learn to work that system, unlike the stereotypical (lol) white male who the system is designed for. For example, myself and other women on this board have talked privately about how interestingly, we approach these subjects through logic because we would not be taken seriously with emotional or intuitive arguments. We step out of what comes as naturally, in order to do what it takes to be heard. More power to us when we do so, if we can hone more balanced intelligence. The pay off is that we develop ourselves to greater degrees and we get positive feedback which encourages the process. Similarily, I definitely give the men I know positive feedback when they face and deal with emotional issues and similarly become more "balanced".
I certainly don't think women are held back for lack of trying. We're held back because we are evolutionarily where we are. At the same time, when we learn more and more what we are up against, and find more and more of our authentic power, look out!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
hey, tell a joke. i could use some daniel boone humor right now.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I always thought you came from a more spiritual-sided perspective than a feminist one.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Every once in awhile, the dominatrix remedies the imbalance. Is it the cure? Nah.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Well, to keep with the spirit of the thread, how about I leave the jokes to Chris Rock.
Last weeks SNL appearance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RlVtsAvKfs
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
What the hell is the argument?
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
What? Dominatrix remedies? What is that exactly and how does it apply to angelica's posts?
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
You know it! Now that you are here, it a party train.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
for your sake, i'll go check the original stupid post.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
This study totally discounts the economic variables regarding...economics. This isn't a gender issue.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I just don't buy that it is someone else's fault. We are responsible for our unconscious decisions, and the consequences we accept for ourselves. And we get those consequences at all times. We have no choice but to live with them. Unfortunately, it's not anyone else's fault. Others are, however, responsible for their poor choices and the consequences of those, though. So ultimately we all choose, and we all get the consequences.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!