some intelligent topic for you

Thecure
Thecure Posts: 814
edited November 2007 in A Moving Train
if the war on iraq leads to great middle east would Bush be seen as a head of the time. no "yes or no" answer please.
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Comments

  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    could have asked this better but what I think you are trying to say is, if Iraq becomes a success will the bush years be looked at as a success?

    sure why wouldnt he?
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    yes

    maybe even it doesn't work out so well
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    for trying to appear intelligent, you should work on your writing skills. your thread title and question need work
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Thecure wrote:
    if the war on iraq leads to great middle east would Bush be seen as a head of the time. no "yes or no" answer please.

    I believe that he would be looked upon more favoribly if our invasion of Iraq does create a better Middle East in the future. There are still other aspects of his presidency that would hold him back from being viewed as a great or good president though.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    :rolleyes:

    NO.

    Katrina
    Torture
    WMD
    Iraq/911 ties
    Harriet Myers
    Scooter Libby pardon or whatever the fuck it was
    Alberto Gonzales (see #2 and the politicization of the Justic Department)
    Good Job Brownie (see # 1)
    Record Deficit
    tax cuts for the weatlhy during a "global war that could last a generation"
    Terry Schiavo
    Stem Cell research (untold damage and loss of advancement)
    Gay rights, lack thereof
    domestic spying
    patriot act
    Gitmo
    destruction of habeous corpus
    cia black prisons
    Mission Accomplished

    etc
    etc
    etc

    the list goes on and on and on and on


    SERIOUSLY, WHAT THE FUCK HAVE SOME OF YOU PEOPLE BEEN DOING AND WATCHING FOR THE LAST 6 YEARS? THIS SHIT HAS BEEN A FUCKING DISASTER.

    ask the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi's what they think... or the approx 20,000 dead and severely wounded US soldiers
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    jlew24asu wrote:
    for trying to appear intelligent, you should work on your writing skills. your thread title and question need work


    not everyone around here has English as their first language... just an guess?
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    i think he will be looked at more like lbj. a fervent idealist who escalated us into a war with no end. the alternative is he'll look like nixon what with the corruption and his staff constantly in court or in jail. only he's not as smart as nixon so i'd give the edge to lbj comparisons... among the worst presidents we've ever had.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    mammasan wrote:
    I believe that he would be looked upon more favoribly if our invasion of Iraq does create a better Middle East in the future. There are still other aspects of his presidency that would hold him back from being viewed as a great or good president though.

    IF Iraq became a success why would bush still be looked at as a failure?

    remember, shortly after 9/11 he had a 85% approval rating.

    failure to capture osama? what else? cant pin him on the economy. (no im not defending bush, just discussing)
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    soulsinging wrote:
    i think he will be looked at more like lbj. a fervent idealist who escalated us into a war with no end. the alternative is he'll look like nixon what with the corruption and his staff constantly in court or in jail. only he's not as smart as nixon so i'd give the edge to lbj comparisons... among the worst presidents we've ever had.

    but he is suggesting that "the war with no end" did end, and ended successfully.

    he would still be one of the worse presidents ever?
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    my2hands wrote:
    Katrina
    Torture
    WMD
    Iraq/911 ties
    Harriet Myers
    Scooter Libby pardon or whatever the fuck it was
    Alberto Gonzales (see #2 and the politicization of the Justic Department)
    Good Job Brownie (see # 1)
    Record Deficit
    tax cuts for the weatlhy during a "global war that could last a generation"
    Terry Schiavo
    Stem Cell research (untold damage and loss of advancement)
    Gay rights, lack thereof
    domestic spying
    patriot act
    Gitmo
    destruction of habeous corpus
    cia black prisons
    Mission Accomplished

    sorry to inform you, but most americans will never hear about any of that stuff. iraq is bush's legacy. period. if it succeeds, he will be remembered as a controversial but successful president. if it fails, he will be remembered as a colossal failure. but history is not going to remember terry schaivo or bush's tax cuts, just as nobody remembers lbj's war on poverty aside from the fact that it happened. katrina will be remembered as a huge disaster and bush's role in it will be forgotten. your personal views ought not blind you to reality and the effect of time on memory and history.

    hell two of our most popular and beloved presidents were jfk and reagan, 2 that i see as horrible in their effects. but becos one was martyred and one "won" the cold war, they are beloved. reagan's presidency was as crooked and reprehensible as bush's, but history has still been kind to him.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    my2hands wrote:
    :rolleyes:

    NO.

    Katrina
    Torture
    WMD
    Iraq/911 ties
    Harriet Myers
    Scooter Libby pardon or whatever the fuck it was
    Alberto Gonzales (see #2 and the politicization of the Justic Department)
    Good Job Brownie (see # 1)
    Record Deficit
    tax cuts for the weatlhy during a "global war that could last a generation"
    Terry Schiavo
    Stem Cell research (untold damage and loss of advancement)
    Gay rights, lack thereof
    domestic spying
    patriot act
    Gitmo
    destruction of habeous corpus
    cia black prisons
    Mission Accomplished

    etc
    etc
    etc

    the list goes on and on and on and on


    SERIOUSLY, WHAT THE FUCK HAVE SOME OF YOU PEOPLE BEEN DOING AND WATCHING FOR THE LAST 6 YEARS? THIS SHIT HAS BEEN A FUCKING DISASTER.

    ask the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi's what they think... or the approx 20,000 dead and severely wounded US soldiers

    ah yes, Katrina. bad bad bad.

    but the others you listed are just disagreements you have because you are a far left liberal. no?
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    jlew24asu wrote:
    but he is suggesting that "the war with no end" did end, and ended successfully.

    he would still be one of the worse presidents ever?

    it's possible, though i admit unlikely. in that case i would see him more like a truman. a guy who was pretty controversial, not very well liked, won by narrow margins, but DID win a war. maybe not the worst, but i still think his legacy will be a questionable one, albeit successful.

    assuming iraq somehow ends successfully. i don't think anyone can describe what that would look like though. i envision another iconic photograph of american choppers desperately abandoning the us embassy in baghdad under gunfire while screaming out the door "hey, we won! seriously guys!"
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    soulsinging wrote:
    it's possible, though i admit unlikely. in that case i would see him more like a truman. a guy who was pretty controversial, not very well liked, won by narrow margins, but DID win a war. maybe not the worst, but i still think his legacy will be a questionable one, albeit successful.

    assuming iraq somehow ends successfully. i don't think anyone can describe what that would look like though. i envision another iconic photograph of american choppers desperately abandoning the us embassy in baghdad under gunfire while screaming out the door "hey, we won! seriously guys!"

    well a successful senario would look like sunni, shittes, and kurds somehow setting aside their differences and uniting as one democratic free country.

    then of course it would take years to rebuild but with US help (money) its certainly possible. maybe the place can resemble something like Dubai. not in terms of the amount of skyscrapers its building, but create a tourism industry in Iraq and maybe a center of business in the middle east.

    I would love to visit Iraq someday. Babylon and the beginning or civilization......that would be cool to see.
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    jlew24asu wrote:
    IF Iraq became a success why would bush still be looked at as a failure?

    remember, shortly after 9/11 he had a 85% approval rating.

    failure to capture osama? what else? cant pin him on the economy. (no im not defending bush, just discussing)

    I'm not saying he would still be viewed as a failure. I said he still wouldn't be viewed as a great president. There are a list of other Bush actions and descisions that would keep him from reaching that title of great president.

    No Child Left Behind
    Ballooning Deficit
    Largest expansion of government in recent times

    Those are just 3 that I thought of off the top of my head.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    uhh ... would the middle east be what it is today without western intervention? ... that's a more suitable topic ...

    the only way bush can be seen more favourably in the future is if we all continue to ignore the travesty that is his administration ... my2hands said it quite well ...
  • Kann
    Kann Posts: 1,146
    Thecure wrote:
    if the war on iraq leads to great middle east would Bush be seen as a head of the time. no "yes or no" answer please.

    There's little chance. Because when the war stops and things settle a little there some shit is bound to surface from Iraq. Truths which are not yet known by the general public, testimonies, a proper death count etc.
    We're not in the 70's anymore and information seems to have a way of coming up. We'll see, but I think that be it a "failure" or a "success" it's too late for him.
    And I'm not even speaking about his domestic successes (or his public appearances).
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    jlew24asu wrote:
    well a successful senario would look like sunni, shittes, and kurds somehow setting aside their differences and uniting as one democratic free country.

    then of course it would take years to rebuild but with US help (money) its certainly possible. maybe the place can resemble something like Dubai. not in terms of the amount of skyscrapers its building, but create a tourism industry in Iraq and maybe a center of business in the middle east.

    I would love to visit Iraq someday. Babylon and the beginning or civilization......that would be cool to see.

    i agree, but i somehow doubt the three sects of islam will set aside their differences becos a bunch of christians with better guns comes in and tells them they damn well better.
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    jlew24asu wrote:
    ah yes, Katrina. bad bad bad.

    but the others you listed are just disagreements you have because you are a far left liberal. no?

    Only far left liberals think these....:

    Torture
    WMD
    Record Deficit
    domestic spying
    patriot act
    Gitmo
    destruction of habeous corpus
    cia black prisons

    ....are unacceptable and damaging to his legacy?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Drowned Out wrote:
    Only far left liberals think these....:

    Torture

    this is debatable. many people agree things like water boarding should be used in cases of getting information for a dirty bomb attack for example.
    Drowned Out wrote:
    WMD
    ok what about them? If the Iraq war turns out successful, this will be forgotten.
    Drowned Out wrote:
    Record Deficit
    sure its not good, but he has a plan to reduce it and time will tell if it works.
    Drowned Out wrote:
    domestic spying
    patriot act
    both are also debatable. some believe they are important to fight possible terror attacks in the US. (like I said, far left liberals disagree)
    Drowned Out wrote:
    Gitmo

    destruction of habeous corpus
    again in a grey area. during this time of war, a unconventional war, terms like enemy combatant appear.
    Drowned Out wrote:
    cia black prisons
    what about them?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    soulsinging wrote:
    i agree, but i somehow doubt the three sects of islam will set aside their differences becos a bunch of christians with better guns comes in and tells them they damn well better.

    being christian has nothing to do with it. sometimes being "free" is better then living under the lock and key of a Islamic dictator.

    but seems impossible to debate that with you being how you feel "free" is somehow a negative thing.

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