yup, 50 million fucking idiots voted for this fake cowboy
i asked a friend of mine a few months ago why he voted for bush... he said "so we can fight them there and not here"... i couldnt fuckign believe it. he is 35 years old and sucking up bulshit like lemonade through a straw.
then my roomate the other day says Iraq had was involved in 9/11???? i couldnt fuckign believe it. people still think this shit in 2007?
no wonder my country is losing all of its integrity
well, your country must have thought a little different than you
Katrina
Torture
WMD
Iraq/911 ties
Harriet Myers
Scooter Libby pardon or whatever the fuck it was
Alberto Gonzales (see #2 and the politicization of the Justic Department)
Good Job Brownie (see # 1)
Record Deficit
tax cuts for the weatlhy during a "global war that could last a generation"
Terry Schiavo
Stem Cell research (untold damage and loss of advancement)
Gay rights, lack thereof
domestic spying
patriot act
Gitmo
destruction of habeous corpus
cia black prisons
Mission Accomplished
etc
etc
etc
the list goes on and on and on and on
SERIOUSLY, WHAT THE FUCK HAVE SOME OF YOU PEOPLE BEEN DOING AND WATCHING FOR THE LAST 6 YEARS? THIS SHIT HAS BEEN A FUCKING DISASTER.
ask the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi's what they think... or the approx 20,000 dead and severely wounded US soldiers
amen, brother.
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
like I said before, mature people dont call people they disagree with fucking idiots. and you are tiny. I can see your napoleon complex from here. get over yourself.
after 6 years of this shit, i think i am being nice.
Katrina
Torture
WMD
Iraq/911 ties
Harriet Myers
Scooter Libby pardon or whatever the fuck it was
Alberto Gonzales (see #2 and the politicization of the Justic Department)
Good Job Brownie (see # 1)
Record Deficit
tax cuts for the weatlhy during a "global war that could last a generation"
Terry Schiavo
Stem Cell research (untold damage and loss of advancement)
Gay rights, lack thereof
domestic spying
patriot act
Gitmo
destruction of habeous corpus
cia black prisons
Mission Accomplished
OK JLEW... IF YOU HAVE TIME PLEASE BREAK DOWN EACH ONE OF THESE FOR ME AND YOUR THOUGHTS ON THEM. LETS GET STRAIGHT TO THE FACTS MY FRIEND.
world doesnt revolve around you tiny. hit the gym and come back when you pass puberty and are able to debate like an adult.
work on your humor.
see post above and i will thoroughly run laps around your ass in this debate my friend. pick an issue, any issue listed above. and if you rewally want to get owned please pick torture
see post above and i will thoroughly run laps around your ass in this debate my friend. pick an issue, any issue listed above. and if you rewally want to get owned please pick torture
OK JLEW... IF YOU HAVE TIME PLEASE BREAK DOWN EACH ONE OF THESE FOR ME AND YOUR THOUGHTS ON THEM. LETS GET STRAIGHT TO THE FACTS MY FRIEND.
yes, i think that would be interesting to see.
i'm still stuck on some of these guys supporting torture. even if you don't bring morality into the argument- which i'm assuming isn't even on the radar for some people- torture is the LEAST effective way to get good information out of someone. if someone's dunking you under water and telling you they'll drown your ass if you don;t tell tham what you know, wouldn't you tell them whatever the fuck they want to hear, just to get them to stop?
aside from that, the fact remains that if the US condones torture, it places US soldiers and citizens travelling abroad in greater danger of becoming victims of it themselves.
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
see post above and i will thoroughly run laps around your ass in this debate my friend. pick an issue, any issue listed above. and if you rewally want to get owned please pick torture
this should be easy
can i pick Terry Schiavo?
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
used in the past on very few individuals. should never be done again unless to thwart off a dirty bomb attack. (and some may argue waterboarding isnt even torture) its more of a bad mind fuck that physical harm. it leave zero physical affects. if we were chopping off fingers you'd have a better case.
what about it? If Iraq is a success, as the thread starter is suggesting, this will be long forgotten. WMD was more false information from the people around bush (cheney, slam dunk guy, etc) then bush himself. but the buck stops with him.
i'm still stuck on some of these guys supporting torture. even if you don't bring morality into the argument- which i'm assuming isn't even on the radar for some people- torture is the LEAST effective way to get good information out of someone. if someone's dunking you under water and telling you they'll drown your ass if you don;t tell tham what you know, wouldn't you tell them whatever the fuck they want to hear, just to get them to stop?
aside from that, the fact remains that if the US condones torture, it places US soldiers and citizens travelling abroad in greater danger of becoming victims of it themselves.
define torture.
are we cutting their heads off?
at most we have used waterboarding. something, people stand up and walk away from when its over.
The way I see it the idea behind it is wrong in the first place.. how could it be a success when the whole reason why the US entered Iraq was not to create democracy or any of that bullshit rhetoric now used.. If the US had entered Iraq with that in mind and then that happening along the line then yes it would be a "success".. but those were not the intentions. Success in quotations because killing civilians is never a success. Things could of been solved without war.
What proves the intentions are not as clean as some people on this board would hope is the fact that they drop depleted uranium bombs which will scar civilians for many years to come.. Now how does contaminating their land for many years to come look out for their interest?
Finally for those who say Saddam is an ISLAMIC dictator.. Get your facts straight. He used to kill religious people for a hobby.
since it does not look like people read comments. the way i asked the questions was to have a joke with another thread question. so for you Boxwine-in-hell, here is the question.
If the war in Iraq leads to a better and peaceful middle east, will George Bush be seen as a person who was ahead of his time and did something that was good.
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
When Cheney said going into Iraq was a quagmire, he was telling the truth.
He quickly changed his tune when he saw the dollar signs however.
If what Cheney and Bush have gotten away over the years is not found to be impeachable, then nobody is.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
The way I see it the idea behind it is wrong in the first place.. how could it be a success when the whole reason why the US entered Iraq was not to create democracy or any of that bullshit rhetoric now used.. If the US had entered Iraq with that in mind and then that happening along the line then yes it would be a "success".. but those were not the intentions. Success in quotations because killing civilians is never a success. Things could of been solved without war.
What proves the intentions are not as clean as some people on this board would hope is the fact that they drop depleted uranium bombs which will scar civilians for many years to come.. Now how does contaminating their land for many years to come look out for their interest?
Finally for those who say Saddam is an ISLAMIC dictator.. Get your facts straight. He used to kill religious people for a hobby.
what do you think then was the reason for war?
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
since it does not look like people read comments. the way i asked the questions was to have a joke with another thread question. so for you Boxwine-in-hell, here is the question.
If the war in Iraq leads to a better and peaceful middle east, will George Bush be seen as a person who was ahead of his time and did something that was good.
And the answer is no. Because George Bush has black bile running through his heart and he will hopefully burn forever in a lake of fire where fundamental Islamists will repeatedly behead him for eternity.
But on a serious note. I don't see how on earth this war is going to lead to a better and peaceful Middle East? Seems like it's quite the contrary to me.
one foot in the door
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
When Cheney said going into Iraq was a quagmire, he was telling the truth.
He quickly changed his tune when he saw the dollar signs however.
If what Cheney and Bush have gotten away over the years is not found to be impeachable, then no one is.
...
Going into and occupying any country militarily is a quagmire. Was/is there one occupation was wasn't?
Especially when our culture, customs, religion and language are in completely different universes. We are NEVER going to change their culture... just as they can NEVER change ours. I don't know why this is so difficult to understand. We can change their leaders.. but was cannot change them. THEY will have to initiate and create the change... if they want it.
What we did was place the guns in the hands of the other side. Then we ask, "What happened?" Reality happened. We were too busy blowing our own horn to listen to what they might have been saying.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
this is debatable. many people agree things like water boarding should be used in cases of getting information for a dirty bomb attack for example.
It is a double standard. the threat of a US invasion, over false claims of WMD, was a much greater threat to Iraq than that of a dirty bomb was to the US….so would it have been ok for Iraqis to have captured and tortured US soldiers and/or civilians in 2001/02, for information regarding the imminent threat of invasion? yes, many people may agree with torture, but that is a sad statement about the mindset of those people – the mindset that the US is inherently right and justified in it’s actions.
ok what about them (wmd)? If the Iraq war turns out successful, this will be forgotten.
I don’t know how this war can be judged as a success when it’s based on lies. If it is someday considered a success, it will be because of the “Plan B” reason for the invasion – regime change. I guess you’re right…this is a theoretical example of selective memory, and the “victors” spin on history.
both are also debatable. some believe they are important to fight possible terror attacks in the US. (like I said, far left liberals disagree).
I don’t consider myself a far left liberal, and I think those are the two most damaging aspects of his legacy out of all the items we’re discussing. Personal freedom and human rights shouldn’t be a partisan issue.
again in a grey area. during this time of war, a unconventional war, terms like enemy combatant appear.
The grey area is the term enemy combatant or terrorist….but it does not affect only enemy combatants…its effects are more far reaching than the ‘war on terror’. It’s another contraction of personal freedom, and expansion of state power. Time will tell how this will affect your country once the ‘terrorist’ witch hunt ends….I would hope that eventually people will realize the potential for abuse against US citizens.
I suppose in the context of Bush’s legacy, for your statements to stand, we would need to assume that the average American either will not care or won’t know about the loss of personal freedom, nor the complete disregard for international law…and that Bush will escape scrutiny over the economic situation. This discussion is a good example of how the war on terror and the war in Iraq have been used to facilitate one another, when they were originally sold to the American people as separate subjects.
And the answer is no. Because George Bush has black bile running through his heart and he will hopefully burn forever in a lake of fire where fundamental Islamists will repeatedly behead him for eternity.
But on a serious note. I don't see how on earth this war is going to lead to a better and peaceful Middle East? Seems like it's quite the contrary to me.
first how many times can a person be beheaded? i am guessing twice (just joking)
let say that Iraq has free elections and choose who they want as a leader(s) let's say that they work with the palestians to end the war with isreal. let's say that women have the chance to go to school. let's say that poverty is reduced.
now who knows this might not happen (it seems like that now because we are so intrench in this war it hard to see any good) the questions was never when this happens but if it happens.
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
first how many times can a person be beheaded? i am guessing twice (just joking)
let say that Iraq has free elections and choose who they want as a leader(s) let's say that they work with the palestians to end the war with isreal. let's say that women have the chance to go to school. let's say that poverty is reduced.
now who knows this might not happen (it seems like that now because we are so intrench in this war it hard to see any good) the questions was never when this happens but if it happens.
...
Again.. I ask... what is the cost?
What are YOU willing to pay for this? Someone else's life? Someone else to pick up the bill?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Comments
sorry, i wasn't clear, our own (US) training now, puts out GI's through it
could i borrow a book from you?
mein kampf maybe?
well, your country must have thought a little different than you
amen, brother.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
after 6 years of this shit, i think i am being nice.
and trust me, i am not tiny.
i mean come on right? what the hell are these folks talking about?
world doesnt revolve around you tiny. hit the gym and come back when you pass puberty and are able to debate like an adult.
OK JLEW... IF YOU HAVE TIME PLEASE BREAK DOWN EACH ONE OF THESE FOR ME AND YOUR THOUGHTS ON THEM. LETS GET STRAIGHT TO THE FACTS MY FRIEND.
work on your humor.
see post above and i will thoroughly run laps around your ass in this debate my friend. pick an issue, any issue listed above. and if you rewally want to get owned please pick torture
this should be easy
and he puffed and he huffed
yes, i think that would be interesting to see.
i'm still stuck on some of these guys supporting torture. even if you don't bring morality into the argument- which i'm assuming isn't even on the radar for some people- torture is the LEAST effective way to get good information out of someone. if someone's dunking you under water and telling you they'll drown your ass if you don;t tell tham what you know, wouldn't you tell them whatever the fuck they want to hear, just to get them to stop?
aside from that, the fact remains that if the US condones torture, it places US soldiers and citizens travelling abroad in greater danger of becoming victims of it themselves.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
...and you said nothing of any substance.
are you not up to the challenge?
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
instead of just listing words explain to me what your thoughts are too on the list.
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
can i pick Terry Schiavo?
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
used in the past on very few individuals. should never be done again unless to thwart off a dirty bomb attack. (and some may argue waterboarding isnt even torture) its more of a bad mind fuck that physical harm. it leave zero physical affects. if we were chopping off fingers you'd have a better case.
what about it? If Iraq is a success, as the thread starter is suggesting, this will be long forgotten. WMD was more false information from the people around bush (cheney, slam dunk guy, etc) then bush himself. but the buck stops with him.
more lies to go to war? more from the cheney machine
what about her? ha you want to talk about pardons? we'll talk about clintons pardons and see if you agree with those
dontknow much about him bush trying to build morale during the worst natural disaster in american history. he has a plan to reduce it. time will tell if it works
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE1D91539F931A35752C0A9639C8B63
tax cuts are good.
these are just from your far left views. newsflash ****people are allowed to disagree with you all are a direct result of 9/11. some see it as a way of protecting us from that happening again, some dont. (see newsflash) tommy franks idea. and the mission, at the time, was accomplished.
now you may take this as my being a right winger or loving fox news. actually I dont like bush all that much. I'm very exciting for change come 08.
I'm just mature enough to see both sides of an argument. something you severely lack.
define torture.
are we cutting their heads off?
at most we have used waterboarding. something, people stand up and walk away from when its over.
What?
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
What proves the intentions are not as clean as some people on this board would hope is the fact that they drop depleted uranium bombs which will scar civilians for many years to come.. Now how does contaminating their land for many years to come look out for their interest?
Finally for those who say Saddam is an ISLAMIC dictator.. Get your facts straight. He used to kill religious people for a hobby.
since it does not look like people read comments. the way i asked the questions was to have a joke with another thread question. so for you Boxwine-in-hell, here is the question.
If the war in Iraq leads to a better and peaceful middle east, will George Bush be seen as a person who was ahead of his time and did something that was good.
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
He quickly changed his tune when he saw the dollar signs however.
If what Cheney and Bush have gotten away over the years is not found to be impeachable, then nobody is.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
what do you think then was the reason for war?
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
And the answer is no. Because George Bush has black bile running through his heart and he will hopefully burn forever in a lake of fire where fundamental Islamists will repeatedly behead him for eternity.
But on a serious note. I don't see how on earth this war is going to lead to a better and peaceful Middle East? Seems like it's quite the contrary to me.
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
sure thing. go right ahead.
i am assuming that you did not like that the government let her die is that correct.
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
Going into and occupying any country militarily is a quagmire. Was/is there one occupation was wasn't?
Especially when our culture, customs, religion and language are in completely different universes. We are NEVER going to change their culture... just as they can NEVER change ours. I don't know why this is so difficult to understand. We can change their leaders.. but was cannot change them. THEY will have to initiate and create the change... if they want it.
What we did was place the guns in the hands of the other side. Then we ask, "What happened?" Reality happened. We were too busy blowing our own horn to listen to what they might have been saying.
Hail, Hail!!!
See the torture segment above.
I suppose in the context of Bush’s legacy, for your statements to stand, we would need to assume that the average American either will not care or won’t know about the loss of personal freedom, nor the complete disregard for international law…and that Bush will escape scrutiny over the economic situation. This discussion is a good example of how the war on terror and the war in Iraq have been used to facilitate one another, when they were originally sold to the American people as separate subjects.
first how many times can a person be beheaded? i am guessing twice (just joking)
let say that Iraq has free elections and choose who they want as a leader(s) let's say that they work with the palestians to end the war with isreal. let's say that women have the chance to go to school. let's say that poverty is reduced.
now who knows this might not happen (it seems like that now because we are so intrench in this war it hard to see any good) the questions was never when this happens but if it happens.
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
The reasons stated at the time were 1) Iraq was developing WMD 2) Iraq had links to 911.. which were both flat out lies.
The real reason behind the war is OIL.
Mate please.. read up on Iraq before the war.
The only thing affecting people going to school was the UN imposed sanctions.
Again.. I ask... what is the cost?
What are YOU willing to pay for this? Someone else's life? Someone else to pick up the bill?
Hail, Hail!!!