after all this time in Iraq it seems clear that freedom is not something they value. or frankly, know what to do with.
which is why i see failure in iraq as pretty much inevitable and a huge mistake and a solid indicator bush will not be remembered any more fondly than lbj.
not ANYTHING you want. but free to think how you want. freedom of expression, speech, religion, etc. I want no restraint from others in that regard. but im not going to get into a philosophical pissing match with you. I see nothing negavitive with freedom, even in the terms you try to portray it. with freedom comes responsibility. hoping people understand that is a big assumpution im willing to make.
*sigh* let your emotions rule the argument then. you see negative in the same sentence of freedom and apparently your brain turns off. what you just described is exactly what i described: no restraint from others IS a "negative" right in a philosophical sense. it's not saying freedom is a negative thing or a bad thing. it is saying that freedom cannot be described in terms of what it allows you to do, it can only be described in terms of what others cannot prevent you from doing.
i agree freedom demands responsibility. i just wrote a rather long diatribe about it to ffg.
wow so a few doctors get murdered and now its somehow in the same ballpark as conservative Islam?
we are talking something like 0.00001% of death used in the name of jesus
to something like 25% of conservative Islam in the world
crusades ended 1000 years ago.
i didn't say it was in the same ballpark. you claimed that not even the most extreme branch of christiniaty accepts violence, which is flat out wrong.
I suppose it all depends upon how you define 'Success'.
If the Middle East becomes this region of Free Democracies and embrace Israel's right to soverignty... but, the total costs were 250,000 American soldier's lives and a 3 Trillion Dollar debt left for our kids and grandkids to pay... maybe a success from the view point of the Arabs... from your grandkids strapped with paying for their well being... I don't know. You'll have to ask them.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
which is why i see failure in iraq as pretty much inevitable and a huge mistake and a solid indicator bush will not be remembered any more fondly than lbj.
*sigh* let your emotions rule the argument then. you see negative in the same sentence of freedom and apparently your brain turns off. what you just described is exactly what i described: no restraint from others IS a "negative" right in a philosophical sense. it's not saying freedom is a negative thing or a bad thing. it is saying that freedom cannot be described in terms of what it allows you to do, it can only be described in terms of what others cannot prevent you from doing.
i agree freedom demands responsibility. i just wrote a rather long diatribe about it to ffg.
i didn't say it was in the same ballpark. you claimed that not even the most extreme branch of christiniaty accepts violence, which is flat out wrong.
yeah. it's starting to scare me i think general this is a reflection of two people with opposing ideologies nonetheless willing to admit reality sometimes gets in the way and forces concessions from the ideal.
1. if the middle east shows immense progress in the generations to come, it sure as hell wont be because cowboy georgie laid waste to Iraq, slaughtered its civilians, and set up a permanent occupying structure all based on lies and the trauma from 9/11
some of you guys are just flat out full of shit and literally repeat line for line right wing talking points.
it is like your fax machine is hooked into foxnews and you read line for line whats comes across your desk
shit, 30% view his presidency as succesful right now. you know what. they are all fucking idiots. period. no nicer way to say that one.
For Iraq: Kiddies... we need to weigh reality against wishes. In order to turn our wishes into realities.. we need to take a realistic assessment of our wish.
What do the Arabs want? Isn't that what we should be asking? It seems as if we are telling them to be more like us instead. Maybe we should figure out what they want and help them to achieve THEIR wishes.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
1. if the middle east shows immense progress in the generations to come, it sure as hell wont be because cowboy georgie laid waste to Iraq, slaughtered its civilians, and set up a permanent occupying structure all based on lies and the trauma from 9/11
some of you guys are just flat out full of shit and literally repeat line for line right wing talking points.
it is like your fax machine is hooked into foxnews and you read line for line whats comes across your desk
shit, 30% view his presidency as succesful right now. you know what. they are all fucking idiots. period. no nicer way to say that one.
no wonder my country is going to shit
another fox news reference, saying everyone who disagrees with you are fucking idiots.
Torture
WMD
Record Deficit
domestic spying
patriot act
Gitmo
destruction of habeous corpus
cia black prisons
....are unacceptable and damaging to his legacy?
it is flat out scary what some of my felow countrymen think and believe
these things are not "liberal" issues. they are fucking HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUES
jesus h christ
and to those saying "well torture maybe needed if a dirty bomb is in chicago". STOP WATCHING "24" AND THE REPUBLICAN DEBATES. this is not the reality of the situation. torture has been used on detainees posing ZERO fucking threat. i repeat, these toture methods have already been used on detainees that pose/posed NO THREAT
it is flat out scary what some of my felow countrymen think and believe
these things are not "liberal" issues. they are fucking HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUES
jesus h christ
and to those saying "well torture maybe needed if a dirty bomb is in chicago". STOP WATCHING "24" AND THE REPUBLICAN DEBATES. this is not the reality of the situation. torture has been used on detainees posing ZERO fucking threat. i repeat, these toture methods have already been used on detainees that pose/posed NO THREAT
another fox news reference, saying everyone who disagrees with you are fucking idiots.
yup, always great to debate with far lefties.
dude, seriously. you repeat word for word the right wing talking points. ask around, they will tell you the same.
and yes, when it comes to some of these black and white clear cut isses such as the patriot act and torture, anyone that justifies them or doesnt see them as harmful are just flat out fucking idiots. period. sorry, thats just the way it is.
it is flat out scary what some of my felow countrymen think and believe
these things are not "liberal" issues. they are fucking HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUES
jesus h christ
and to those saying "well torture maybe needed if a dirty bomb is in chicago". STOP WATCHING "24" AND THE REPUBLICAN DEBATES. this is not the reality of the situation. torture has been used on detainees posing ZERO fucking threat. i repeat, these toture methods have already been used on detainees that pose/posed NO THREAT
I dont watch 24. but a dirty bomb is certainly a threat and I'd be all for using any means possible to thwart off any such attack by your friends.
in any and all other instances anything close to resembling torture should not be used.
dude, seriously. you repeat word for word the right wing talking points. ask around, they will tell you the same.
and yes, when it comes to some of these black and white clear cut isses such as the patriot act and torture, anyone that justifies them or doesnt see them as harmful are just flat out fucking idiots. period. sorry, thats just the way it is.
I dont even know what right wing talking points are. I dont watch the news. and who am I going to ask? WTF???
most of your posts are left wing talking points.
does that make you right and me wrong? who the fuck are you?
and yes, when it comes to some of these black and white clear cut isses such as the patriot act and torture, anyone that justifies them or doesnt see them as harmful are just flat out fucking idiots. period. sorry, thats just the way it is.
this is how 12 year boys end arguments. maybe one day you will become an adult and realize people who you disagree with arent fucking idiots.
I dont even know what right wing talking points are. I dont watch the news. and who am I going to ask? WTF???
most of your posts are left wing talking points.
does that make you right and me wrong? who the fuck are you?
i am the guy that is telling it how it is. thats who i am. this country is full of fucking idiots and it is time to start calling them out. they are why we are in this mess with a presidentional decider/dictator... my country will not torture in my fucking name, maybe yours, but not mine
i am the guy that is telling it how it is. thats who i am. this country is full of fucking idiots and it is time to start calling them out. they are why we are in this mess with a presidentional decider/dictator... my country will not torture in my fucking name, maybe yours, but not mine
actually you are a nobody. just tiny immature uneducated guy with an opinion.
did you not read my post? there is only one instance where I would condone using any means possible.
anything else, torture should not be used.
get it now?
ok, so it has been used. and not in your hypothetical situation. so where is the justification for toture? and why is torture all of the sudden a "left wing" thing to despise?
seriously man. this shit isnt a game. we are fucking torturing people. and you are making excuses for it?
ok, so it has been used. and not in your hypothetical situation. so where is the justification for toture? and why is torture all of the sudden a "left wing" thing to despise?
seriously man. this shit isnt a game. we are fucking torturing people. and you are making excuses for it?
it happened with kalid sheik mohammad. probably a few others but it has since stopped and is not happening anymore.
get over it.
amazing how you have such a bleeding heart for these scumbags who would cut your head off with a butter knife given the chance.
i am the guy that is telling it how it is. thats who i am. this country is full of fucking idiots and it is time to start calling them out. they are why we are in this mess with a presidentional decider/dictator... my country will not torture in my fucking name, maybe yours, but not mine
al gore lost a free election...the second term of st george was much bigger
i am sick and tired of assholes excusing some of the insanity this administartion has orchestrated.
and i obviously pay more attention to the world around me then you do chief.
like I said before, mature people dont call people they disagree with fucking idiots. and you are tiny. I can see your napoleon complex from here. get over yourself.
al gore lost a free election...the second term of st george was much bigger
get into the real world
yup, 50 million fucking idiots voted for this fake cowboy
i asked a friend of mine a few months ago why he voted for bush... he said "so we can fight them there and not here"... i couldnt fuckign believe it. he is 35 years old and sucking up bulshit like lemonade through a straw.
then my roomate the other day says Iraq had was involved in 9/11???? i couldnt fuckign believe it. people still think this shit in 2007?
no wonder my country is losing all of its integrity
Comments
which is why i see failure in iraq as pretty much inevitable and a huge mistake and a solid indicator bush will not be remembered any more fondly than lbj.
*sigh* let your emotions rule the argument then. you see negative in the same sentence of freedom and apparently your brain turns off. what you just described is exactly what i described: no restraint from others IS a "negative" right in a philosophical sense. it's not saying freedom is a negative thing or a bad thing. it is saying that freedom cannot be described in terms of what it allows you to do, it can only be described in terms of what others cannot prevent you from doing.
i agree freedom demands responsibility. i just wrote a rather long diatribe about it to ffg.
i didn't say it was in the same ballpark. you claimed that not even the most extreme branch of christiniaty accepts violence, which is flat out wrong.
If the Middle East becomes this region of Free Democracies and embrace Israel's right to soverignty... but, the total costs were 250,000 American soldier's lives and a 3 Trillion Dollar debt left for our kids and grandkids to pay... maybe a success from the view point of the Arabs... from your grandkids strapped with paying for their well being... I don't know. You'll have to ask them.
Hail, Hail!!!
again we end with an ok ok ok.
yeah. it's starting to scare me
some of you guys are just flat out full of shit and literally repeat line for line right wing talking points.
it is like your fax machine is hooked into foxnews and you read line for line whats comes across your desk
shit, 30% view his presidency as succesful right now. you know what. they are all fucking idiots. period. no nicer way to say that one.
no wonder my country is going to shit
What do the Arabs want? Isn't that what we should be asking? It seems as if we are telling them to be more like us instead. Maybe we should figure out what they want and help them to achieve THEIR wishes.
Hail, Hail!!!
another fox news reference, saying everyone who disagrees with you are fucking idiots.
yup, always great to debate with far lefties.
it is flat out scary what some of my felow countrymen think and believe
these things are not "liberal" issues. they are fucking HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUES
jesus h christ
and to those saying "well torture maybe needed if a dirty bomb is in chicago". STOP WATCHING "24" AND THE REPUBLICAN DEBATES. this is not the reality of the situation. torture has been used on detainees posing ZERO fucking threat. i repeat, these toture methods have already been used on detainees that pose/posed NO THREAT
you have proof of that?
dude, seriously. you repeat word for word the right wing talking points. ask around, they will tell you the same.
and yes, when it comes to some of these black and white clear cut isses such as the patriot act and torture, anyone that justifies them or doesnt see them as harmful are just flat out fucking idiots. period. sorry, thats just the way it is.
prove otherwise
you dont think these clowns wouldnt be mentioning something like that every 2 secodns if they stopped an attack with a dirty bomb?
you guys will believe anything they tell you.
un believable
I dont watch 24. but a dirty bomb is certainly a threat and I'd be all for using any means possible to thwart off any such attack by your friends.
in any and all other instances anything close to resembling torture should not be used.
this is a right wing talking point?
wow
you are the one saying "i repeat..."
so prove it
and yes, anyone that approves of the president and his job so far in office IS A FLAT OUT FUCKING IDIOT
PERIOD
I dont even know what right wing talking points are. I dont watch the news. and who am I going to ask? WTF???
most of your posts are left wing talking points.
does that make you right and me wrong? who the fuck are you?
UM, NO MORE HYPOTHETICALS PLEASE
the fact is that WE HAVE COMMITTED TOTURE, will you at least admit that? and that this torture was not a matter of grave national security.
come on, you guys are smarter than this
sometimes i just sit amazed
this is how 12 year boys end arguments. maybe one day you will become an adult and realize people who you disagree with arent fucking idiots.
did you not read my post? there is only one instance where I would condone using any means possible.
anything else, torture should not be used.
get it now?
if it's good enough for us..........
and i won't admit anything
i am the guy that is telling it how it is. thats who i am. this country is full of fucking idiots and it is time to start calling them out. they are why we are in this mess with a presidentional decider/dictator... my country will not torture in my fucking name, maybe yours, but not mine
You know... you are arguing with yourself here... right?
Hail, Hail!!!
actually you are a nobody. just tiny immature uneducated guy with an opinion.
ok, so it has been used. and not in your hypothetical situation. so where is the justification for toture? and why is torture all of the sudden a "left wing" thing to despise?
seriously man. this shit isnt a game. we are fucking torturing people. and you are making excuses for it?
it happened with kalid sheik mohammad. probably a few others but it has since stopped and is not happening anymore.
get over it.
amazing how you have such a bleeding heart for these scumbags who would cut your head off with a butter knife given the chance.
actually...
i am not tiny
i am educated
i am mature
i am sick and tired of assholes excusing some of the insanity this administartion has orchestrated.
and i obviously pay more attention to the world around me then you do chief.
al gore lost a free election...the second term of st george was much bigger
get into the real world
and those people were prosecuted for war crimes in WWII my friend
open a book
like I said before, mature people dont call people they disagree with fucking idiots. and you are tiny. I can see your napoleon complex from here. get over yourself.
no shit, that's what amazes me, everyone here taking up for these dudes would be dead within a week if they had their way.
yup, 50 million fucking idiots voted for this fake cowboy
i asked a friend of mine a few months ago why he voted for bush... he said "so we can fight them there and not here"... i couldnt fuckign believe it. he is 35 years old and sucking up bulshit like lemonade through a straw.
then my roomate the other day says Iraq had was involved in 9/11???? i couldnt fuckign believe it. people still think this shit in 2007?
no wonder my country is losing all of its integrity