A Growing Pain for Atheists?

Ahnimus
Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
edited May 2007 in A Moving Train
Growing Pains star Kirk Cameron and evangelist friend Ray Comfort go up against the atheist group Rational Response Squad on ABC Nightline.

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=3148940&page=1

Use the video player on the right.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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Comments

  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    I'll pass... I don't care what either side really says, I don't have a horse in this race.
    My whole life
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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Ooh, taken out of context, sort-of

    "You are a self-admitted, lying, thieving, blasphemer and adulterer at heart." - Ray Comfort

    This guy paints a pretty picture. 'You' are a constant. If you commit a sin, 'You' are a sinner. I tend to view 'You' as a changing pattern. A rearrangement of matter into a beautiful pattern. The pattern constantly changes, we constantly change. 'You' are like a beautiful tapestry that changes with time and when someone views the tapestry it manifests a representation of one or more of their traits. That's about as buttery as I can get :)
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • prism
    prism Posts: 2,440
    I love how they got completely dumb-founded when they were asked "if God created everything who created God?"
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  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    prism wrote:
    I love how they got completely dumb-founded when they were asked "if God created everything who created God?"

    i'm pretty dumbfounded to that someone would actually ask such a stupid question as if its some profound philosophical sticking point, and expect to be taken seriously.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    If 'Left Behind' means that Kirk Cameron is gone off the planet... how is it a 'Bad' thing? As long as he takes his 'Growing Pains' reruns with him.
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  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    was boner there?
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    cornnifer wrote:
    i'm pretty dumbfounded to that someone would actually ask such a stupid question as if its some profound philosophical sticking point, and expect to be taken seriously.

    Why?
    Is it because it was God's father that created God? His name was God, too?

    So, God really may just be God Jr.?
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  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    gue_barium wrote:
    Why?
    Is it because it was God's father that created God? His name was God, too?

    So, God really may just be God Jr.?
    ????????????? uhhh..., what...??????????????
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • Dustin51
    Dustin51 Posts: 222
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Growing Pains star Kirk Cameron and evangelist friend Ray Comfort go up against the atheist group Rational Response Squad on ABC Nightline.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=3148940&page=1

    Use the video player on the right.

    Kirk Cameron! That guy is a tremendous DouceBag...the one thing positive I will say about him is that he seems to genuienly believe in God which I dont think you can say about a lot of those God freaks.
    Be excellent to each other
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    cornnifer wrote:
    i'm pretty dumbfounded to that someone would actually ask such a stupid question as if its some profound philosophical sticking point, and expect to be taken seriously.

    Why is it a stupid question?
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  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    Collin wrote:
    Why is it a stupid question?

    The concept of God implies no need for God to have a creator. God is timeless.
    i don't have a problem with the question as it is hardly challenging. i just have to shake my head when folks offer it as a profound philosophical point. Its kindergarten philosophy, really.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    cornnifer wrote:
    The concept of God implies no need for God to have a creator. God is timeless.
    i don't have a problem with the question as it is hardly challenging. i just have to shake my head when folks offer it as a profound philosophical point. Its kindergarten philosophy, really.
    It does pose a philosophical point. Basically, if God is timeless, i.e. outside of time, then from the ultimate perspective (God's), past, present and future are all the same. God already knows everything, including what we will do "years" before we are even conceived, and therefore has created a "predestined" universe where free-will is just an illusion.

    In other words, a man or woman can only repent if God created them to repent.

    In other other words, God created people with the specific purpose of populating Hell.
  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    RainDog wrote:
    It does pose a philosophical point. Basically, if God is timeless, i.e. outside of time, then from the ultimate perspective (God's), past, present and future are all the same. God already knows everything, including what we will do "years" before we are even conceived, and therefore has created a "predestined" universe where free-will is just an illusion.

    In other words, a man or woman can only repent if God created them to repent.

    In other other words, God created people with the specific purpose of populating Hell.

    Where your philosophy here sounds impressive, it assumes alot. i really don't think the idea of a timeless God implies human predestination or illusionary free-will.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    cornnifer wrote:
    The concept of God implies no need for God to have a creator. God is timeless.
    i don't have a problem with the question as it is hardly challenging. i just have to shake my head when folks offer it as a profound philosophical point. Its kindergarten philosophy, really.

    So, for you God is Timelessness.
    That's nice.

    I made a suggestion to you in one of these threads about that, about the timelessness of God, and you replied with the non-answer of "why are you picking on me."

    So, for you:

    God is Timeless Philosphy.
    That's nice.
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  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    gue_barium wrote:
    So, for you God is Timelessness.
    That's nice.

    I made a suggestion to you in one of these threads about that, about the timelessness of God, and you replied with the non-answer of "why are you picking on me."

    So, for you:

    God is Timeless Philosphy.
    That's nice.
    ????????????? uhhh..., what...??????????????
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    cornnifer wrote:
    Where your philosophy here sounds impressive, it assumes alot. i really don't think the idea of a timeless God implies human predestination or illusionary free-will.
    Either God is subject to the flow of time, or time is subject to the will of God.

    I suppose it depends on what you're implying by the word "timeless." If you intend for it to mean "immortal," that God will always exist but isn't prescient, then God is subject to the flow of time. If that's the case, then there may have been a beginning to God, as "beginning" and "end" imply the passage of time, which in this scenario is more powerful than God himself.

    If by "timeless" you mean outside of time, then we have what I mentioned in my previous post - past, present and future are all the same from the ultimate perspective. Under this scenario, God may be the source of time itself and is therefore not constrained by it. As such, the universe can be compared to a film with God as its auteur. The characters - us - never realize that we're in a film and tend to our daily lives as though our own motives and desires are driving us; that we have free will. From the outside perspective, though, these are not real people, they are not making 'their own decisions', but rather were written and "predestined". Time is merely the length of the film and can be fast-forwarded and rewound at will.
  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    RainDog wrote:
    Either God is subject to the flow of time, or time is subject to the will of God.

    I suppose it depends on what you're implying by the word "timeless." If you intend for it to mean "immortal," that God will always exist but isn't prescient, then God is subject to the flow of time. If that's the case, then there may have been a beginning to God, as "beginning" and "end" imply the passage of time, which in this scenario is more powerful than God himself.

    If by "timeless" you mean outside of time, then we have what I mentioned in my previous post - past, present and future are all the same from the ultimate perspective. Under this scenario, God may be the source of time itself and is therefore not constrained by it. As such, the universe can be compared to a film with God as its auteur. The characters - us - never realize that we're in a film and tend to our daily lives as though our own motives and desires are driving us; that we have free will. From the outside perspective, though, these are not real people, they are not making 'their own decisions', but rather were written and "predestined". Time is merely the length of the film and can be fast-forwarded and rewound at will.
    Or you could also have a situation where God exists outside of time, but we as humans still operate within its constraints. Where we are instilled with free will and allowed to write our own script.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    cornnifer wrote:
    ????????????? uhhh..., what...??????????????

    Basically, it seems to me, God for you is those things you can't answer for what's coming, kind of mixed in with some sort of answer for where you came from and where you're going.
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  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    gue_barium wrote:
    Basically, it seems to me, God for you is those things you can't answer for what's coming, kind of mixed in with some sort of answer for where you came from and where you're going.
    ????????????? uhhh..., what...??????????????
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    cornnifer wrote:
    ????????????? uhhh..., what...??????????????

    Ok...I gotcha. Nevermind all that other stuff.

    God is a Space Alien.
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