well, i've opened my mind to atheists. as best as i can, at least. that's why i'm constantly on here.
the difference about being an atheist, from what i can see, is that it's all based on logic, common sense and science and not necessarily about faith, or maybe even no faith at all. those are things that i am not against. so i can sympathize for an atheist about them considering me ludicrous for believing in such fairy tales because it all makes "sense", even to me. i am in a sense a minority. i am a minority in the sense that you've got everything to back up why you believe while i have nothing to back up my beliefs and my only response to you is faith. it's logical for someone to laugh at those concepts. even i would. so it all boils down easily for all of us being on the same page. there are things that you might say that i consider offensive even though you're intentions are not to offend me. that is why i say let's just take things as they are.
I respect this perspective. Faith should be about faith in my opinion. You can't and shouldn't try to justify or rationalise faith. If you feel you need to do so, you obviously don't have enough faith in whatever you believe.
The thing that causes me to instantly lose respect for some religious people is when they try to justify their faith by attacking the beliefs of others, or worse still, distorting or flat out denying the realities presented by science. To do so seems completely nonsensical to me.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
Deadnothingbetter is right. It's faith. It's a deeply embedded percept in the brain of the individual with a real priority to it. To the point that all rationalization is not required. It's really a control mechanism to get people thinking they just have to follow the word of the church and not think for themselves. People born into these teachings never develop the ability to think for themselves. Rather, they develop a strong relationship with faith. In-fact they typically stay away from issues that would spark rational debate.
There is quite the push now-a-days to rid the world of religion. I'm game, I just don't think it can be done anymore. The best we can do is keep the confusion rolling so that future generations have to at some point question their faith. I see only a small window of opportunity in a person's life to really make them think and it usually follows particular life experiences at particular ages. And like Constantine among others made damn sure that pagans, polytheists and atheists were gone almost completely. It's like we've had 2,000 years of devolving our brains.
I personally do not consider Christianity to be any worse than any other religion including newage. I find all those ideas not progressive. Like Emoto's water, it's just gonna set us on the wrong path trying to learn about nature. There is always a rather mundane explanation. It's beautiful how it all interacts none-the-less and atheists do typically take splendor in awing at nature in it's magnificence. But I mean, bees taking off from the hives, 2,000 years ago that would have been a curse. It would mean they displeased the Gods and it would probably be a well documented event in ancient mythological history. I mean, there are more progressive ways to look at life now. We have the tools now to see what's really going on if we are patient for the answers.
oh ahnimus, you're such a silly silly little guy. i'm always up for a debate but where's the part in our brains that tell us that debate is useless?
i mean, you're objectives are clearly what i'm speaking of why spend a lifetime trying to discredit the beliefs of others? this is when i can gather up all my confidence and say, you're a nerd, man. j/k
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
I respect this perspective. Faith should be about faith in my opinion. You can't and shouldn't try to justify or rationalise faith. If you feel you need to do so, you obviously don't have enough faith in whatever you believe.
The thing that causes me to instantly lose respect for some religious people is when they try to justify their faith by attacking the beliefs of others, or worse still, distorting or flat out denying the realities presented by science. To do so seems completely nonsensical to me.
amen
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
Deadnothingbetter is right. It's faith. It's a deeply embedded percept in the brain of the individual with a real priority to it. To the point that all rationalization is not required. It's really a control mechanism to get people thinking they just have to follow the word of the church and not think for themselves. People born into these teachings never develop the ability to think for themselves. Rather, they develop a strong relationship with faith. In-fact they typically stay away from issues that would spark rational debate.
So how do you explain me here then? I am born and raised into those teachings, yet reject them.
There is quite the push now-a-days to rid the world of religion. I'm game, I just don't think it can be done anymore. The best we can do is keep the confusion rolling so that future generations have to at some point question their faith. I see only a small window of opportunity in a person's life to really make them think and it usually follows particular life experiences at particular ages. And like Constantine among others made damn sure that pagans, polytheists and atheists were gone almost completely. It's like we've had 2,000 years of devolving our brains.
How optimistic of you. I for one, think we never stop learning, and we can always change our beliefs. The church did supress other ideas for a while, sure. But that's over and done with for a long time now.
I personally do not consider Christianity to be any worse than any other religion including newage. I find all those ideas not progressive. Like Emoto's water, it's just gonna set us on the wrong path trying to learn about nature. There is always a rather mundane explanation. It's beautiful how it all interacts none-the-less and atheists do typically take splendor in awing at nature in it's magnificence. But I mean, bees taking off from the hives, 2,000 years ago that would have been a curse. It would mean they displeased the Gods and it would probably be a well documented event in ancient mythological history. I mean, there are more progressive ways to look at life now. We have the tools now to see what's really going on if we are patient for the answers.
We can explain some things now, certainly. Far from everything. And as long as total understanding eludes us, and probably always will, it helps to keep an open mind about things we dont know or are not certain of yet. Develop science, certainly. But dont narrow the scope of human thought into what science knows for sure, cause that ain't as much as we'd like to think.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
The church did supress other ideas for a while, sure. But that's over and done with for a long time now.
I'm not so sure about that. They might not have the power to supress ideas anymore (in the west anyway), but they certainly know how to fight them. In fact its not even ideas that their fighting, its worse. They're fighting reality. Take the whole intelligent design argument for example.
We can explain some things now, certainly. Far from everything. And as long as total understanding eludes us, and probably always will, it helps to keep an open mind about things we dont know or are not certain of yet. Develop science, certainly. But dont narrow the scope of human thought into what science knows for sure, cause that ain't as much as we'd like to think.
Peace
Dan
I completely agree. Ahnimus I get the impression sometimes that you feel that science can provide all the answers. As a scientist, its important to be aware that you NEVER have all the answers, and we don't always have the tools to look for them. I'm pretty sure that there are some questions that will always remain beyond the reach of scientific investigation. However, I'll qualify that by saying that this does not mean that I think we should turn to mystical or supernatural explanations. All I mean is that some things will likely never be explained, and are perhaps best left that way.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
I'm not so sure about that. They might not have the power to supress ideas anymore (in the west anyway), but they certainly know how to fight them. In fact its not even ideas that their fighting, its worse. They're fighting reality. Take the whole intelligent design argument for example.
Oh, they fight, but they have lost much if not all of the power to supress. The church can't dominate society anymore like it used to.
I completely agree. Ahnimus I get the impression sometimes that you feel that science can provide all the answers. As a scientist, its important to be aware that you NEVER have all the answers, and we don't always have the tools to look for them. I'm pretty sure that there are some questions that will always remain beyond the reach of scientific investigation. However, I'll qualify that by saying that this does not mean that I think we should turn to mystical or supernatural explanations. All I mean is that some things will likely never be explained, and are perhaps best left that way.
I'm not saying we should turn to mystical explanations either necessarily, and certainly treat them with scepticism. But I am willing to hear them out and entertain the idea that they may be right. Particularly on subjects where science stops short and are unable to provide a scientific answer. Meaning is in any case something we create outside science.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Oh, they fight, but they have lost much if not all of the power to supress. The church can't dominate society anymore like it used to.
Not in your country or mine maybe, but look at what happens in the US. Christian lobby groups pressure the government into making all kinds of retarded decisions. I think that schools in Arkansas teaching kids 'Intelligent design theory' really amounts to the same thing as the catholic church surpressing ideas in europe in years gone by.
And its not just the christian church thats guilty of this sort of thing. What about Islam's power to supress ideas in Iran or Saudi Arabia or Afganistan?
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
Not in your country or mine maybe, but look at what happens in the US. Christian lobby groups pressure the government into making all kinds of retarded decisions. I think that schools in Arkansas teaching kids 'Intelligent design theory' really amounts to the same thing as the catholic church surpressing ideas in europe in years gone by.
And its not just the christian church thats guilty of this sort of thing. What about Islam's power to supress ideas in Iran or Saudi Arabia or Afganistan?
Won't argue that. But apart from Iran, which is kind of a special case, it isn't as bad as it has been in the past. I'm frustrated with ID people and creationists as well, and those seem to have a bit more influence in the US.
I don't like them either, but I dont view it as black as Ahnimus expressed.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Comments
I respect this perspective. Faith should be about faith in my opinion. You can't and shouldn't try to justify or rationalise faith. If you feel you need to do so, you obviously don't have enough faith in whatever you believe.
The thing that causes me to instantly lose respect for some religious people is when they try to justify their faith by attacking the beliefs of others, or worse still, distorting or flat out denying the realities presented by science. To do so seems completely nonsensical to me.
-C Addison
i mean, you're objectives are clearly what i'm speaking of why spend a lifetime trying to discredit the beliefs of others? this is when i can gather up all my confidence and say, you're a nerd, man. j/k
How optimistic of you. I for one, think we never stop learning, and we can always change our beliefs. The church did supress other ideas for a while, sure. But that's over and done with for a long time now.
We can explain some things now, certainly. Far from everything. And as long as total understanding eludes us, and probably always will, it helps to keep an open mind about things we dont know or are not certain of yet. Develop science, certainly. But dont narrow the scope of human thought into what science knows for sure, cause that ain't as much as we'd like to think.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
I'm not so sure about that. They might not have the power to supress ideas anymore (in the west anyway), but they certainly know how to fight them. In fact its not even ideas that their fighting, its worse. They're fighting reality. Take the whole intelligent design argument for example.
I completely agree. Ahnimus I get the impression sometimes that you feel that science can provide all the answers. As a scientist, its important to be aware that you NEVER have all the answers, and we don't always have the tools to look for them. I'm pretty sure that there are some questions that will always remain beyond the reach of scientific investigation. However, I'll qualify that by saying that this does not mean that I think we should turn to mystical or supernatural explanations. All I mean is that some things will likely never be explained, and are perhaps best left that way.
-C Addison
I'm not saying we should turn to mystical explanations either necessarily, and certainly treat them with scepticism. But I am willing to hear them out and entertain the idea that they may be right. Particularly on subjects where science stops short and are unable to provide a scientific answer. Meaning is in any case something we create outside science.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Not in your country or mine maybe, but look at what happens in the US. Christian lobby groups pressure the government into making all kinds of retarded decisions. I think that schools in Arkansas teaching kids 'Intelligent design theory' really amounts to the same thing as the catholic church surpressing ideas in europe in years gone by.
And its not just the christian church thats guilty of this sort of thing. What about Islam's power to supress ideas in Iran or Saudi Arabia or Afganistan?
-C Addison
I don't like them either, but I dont view it as black as Ahnimus expressed.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965