To the people who believe 911 was an inside job...

nobody · July 2008

lgt wrote:

By the way, just to avoid misinterpretation and accusation of arrogance... I know you're using the term "sober" in its original Latin origin - that is, serious, moderate, etc.

As fellow non-native English speaker that is apparent to me (along with the irony), but it might not be so to English-speaker where the most common meaning of sober is not intoxicated by alcohol.

Just thought to clarify it!

yes, that's pretty much what I meant...thank you:)

m.

BushLovesEd · July 2008

Nobody:

1. If you believe Oswald killed Kennedy alone - look no further...

2. Motives - The Project for the New American Century clearly claims that a 911kinda event is the only thing that will make their agenda possible. None had more to win on 911 than the Bush adm and its powerful men behind it. I hope we can all agree that Bush adm wanted this war bad.. No way they would have gotten it without 911.

3. Strongest airforce in the world was not able to stop 4 planes flying into buildings - although it was based right beside Pentagon

4. Although there had been "no warnings" of such an attack, Bin Laden was immidiately guilty of this crime and the pilots were soon exploited.

5. When your country is under a terroristattack - the president should be taken immidiately into safety.. Not reading a book at a public school. If you can fly 4 planes into significant buildings, beat the biggest defence system of all time, you could easily find out where the president is located.

Now, to your question. I believe the pilots were AlQ guys or something to that extend, thinking they were doing it just on behalf of their terroristgroup.

lgt · July 2008

nobody wrote:

you think Obama was behind it???;)
I think this forum has left its mark...;)

m.

hahaha!! That's priceless!

What can I say it was too late for me!

Pretty funny, but yeah, I wouldn't be surprised

lgt · July 2008

nobody wrote:

actually I've read some thesis that Fascists in particular have to cater to their people (the majority)...as they have no other legimatization than the claim that they are good for the country...a hundred years of brutal violence and suppression against the MAJORITY of the people has never accured in history...especially dictators tend to at least try to please the main group of society...cause they live in constant fear of an overthrow (see e.g. Stalin)...

m.

Oh no, I totally agree that fascist states had to legimise their claim to power by catering to the majority - which also supports the fact that the only repression was of minorities, also the perceived "enemy" against which all can unify against.

There are various instruments used historically to enforce dictatorship, but not active repression of a dominant group. It would be self-defeating, in a sense.

nobody · July 2008

lgt wrote:

Oh no, I totally agree that fascist states had to legimise their claim to power by catering to the majority - which also supports the fact that the only repression was of minorities, also the perceived "enemy" against which all can unify against.

There are various instruments used historically to enforce dictatorship, but not active repression of a dominant group. It would be self-defeating, in a sense.

EXACTLY:)
and I knew you agreed...I was just enhancing your point...:)

now, people, don't you think conspiracy theorists would be a very easy minority to oppress??;)
in fact...they are a minority who are good at deception and good at making a fair amount of cash by making FALSE claims...
"the real story behind 911" "this is how the tower really went down" "Bush and Osama-dream couple" "illuminati behind 911"
yawn...SUPER FUCKIN YAWN...

people like to believe they are the powerless playball of some higher power...gives them a lot of excuses...
add shady facts, unsourced information, and absolutely FALSE analogies and you've got thousands of internet discussions spreading the "truth"...

m.

nobody · July 2008

BushLovesEd wrote:

Nobody:

1. If you believe Oswald killed Kennedy alone - look no further...

2. Motives - The Project for the New American Century clearly claims that a 911kinda event is the only thing that will make their agenda possible. None had more to win on 911 than the Bush adm and its powerful men behind it. I hope we can all agree that Bush adm wanted this war bad.. No way they would have gotten it without 911.

3. Strongest airforce in the world was not able to stop 4 planes flying into buildings - although it was based right beside Pentagon

4. Although there had been "no warnings" of such an attack, Bin Laden was immidiately guilty of this crime and the pilots were soon exploited.

5. When your country is under a terroristattack - the president should be taken immidiately into safety.. Not reading a book at a public school. If you can fly 4 planes into significant buildings, beat the biggest defence system of all time, you could easily find out where the president is located.

Now, to your question. I believe the pilots were AlQ guys or something to that extend, thinking they were doing it just on behalf of their terroristgroup.

1.what does Oswald have to do with this?
is it the same people who killed Kennedy, that are rsponsible for 911?
and the same people who killed King for that matter?

2. only because they profited from the attack, doesn't mean they were behind it? that's after the fact reasoning...
you might profit from finding a 100$ bill on the street tomorrow...doesn't mean you put it there...

3. that's what I claimed above: even the US isn't all powerful (although many people actually profit from that image)...it wasn't as easy to react to the hi-jacking as your portray it here...it was an absolutely uncommen and unique event
who would even consider they fly into those buildings? and thus, who would shoot them down only because they were hi-jacked? I keep telling you...there were HUMANS at work...on both sides...

4. he proudly supported the attacks...I don't claim he was behind it...all I do is to disprove that the US did it...logically two different things

5. oh really...so everytime a bomb went up in London, they immediately hid the prime minister or the queen? cause surely the IRA knew exactly where they were and could have easily killed them...

m.

lgt · July 2008

nobody wrote:

EXACTLY:)
and I knew you agreed...I was just enhancing your point...:)

now, people, don't you think conspiracy theorists would be a very easy minority to oppress??;)
in fact...they are a minority who are good at deception and good at making a fair amount of cash by making FALSE claims...
"the real story behind 911" "this is how the tower really went down" "Bush and Osama-dream couple" "illuminati behind 911"
yawn...SUPER FUCKIN YAWN...

people like to believe they are the powerless playball of some higher power...gives them a lot of excuses...
add shady facts, unsourced information, and absolutely FALSE analogies and you've got thousands of internet discussions spreading the "truth"...

m.

Cool

(was just reading quickly and wasn't sure if I had made my previous point clear)

With regard to conspiracy theories, it seems to me that their appeal is that while the ignorant masses are led by whatever obscure puppet-masters, only a few really know what it really is going on, hence deriving a sense of purpose and power from this "esoteric" knowledge, when the reality is actually much more mundane and complex.

nobody · July 2008

BushLovesEd wrote:

Now, to your question. I believe the pilots were AlQ guys or something to that extend, thinking they were doing it just on behalf of their terroristgroup.

KUDOS to you...and I mean it!
Answers like this are what I made this thread for (not to hear what I want to hear, as one person claimed)...
clear, coherent, without linking pictures to dust clouds...just a short statement, for a short and easy question.

I specifically asked that question to avoid another general 911 thread...I knew that would make me mad...like keep repeating that it's textbook demolitions or claims that the Reichstag Fire was even remotely similiar to 911...or that the patriot act is the enabling act...or that the federal reserve controls the (world) economy etc...

I hope some more people will follow your example (and the 2 or 3 people before) that made a statement like that...
it's fair enough for me...

m.

nobody · July 2008

lgt wrote:

Cool (was just reading quickly and wasn't sure if I had made my previous point clear)

With regard to conspiracy theories, it seems to me that their appeal is that while the ignorant masses are led by whatever obscure puppet-masters, only a few really know what it really is going on, hence deriving a sense of purpose and power from this "esoteric" knowledge, when the reality is actually much more mundane and complex.

yes:)

as I said a hundred times...
I am totally in support of questioning official reports of whatever shape or form...
but including at least 50% of false claimes and unsourced information in your counter-claims, does make you neither right nor look very reliable...and it sure doesn't make it the truth...
only because something seems to make sense or match, doesn't make it true...

m.

BushLovesEd · July 2008

1.what does Oswald have to do with this?
is it the same people who killed Kennedy, that are rsponsible for 911?
and the same people who killed King for that matter?

2. only because they profited from the attack, doesn't mean they were behind it? that's after the fact reasoning...
you might profit from finding a 100$ bill on the street tomorrow...doesn't mean you put it there...

3. that's what I claimed above: even the US isn't all powerful (although many people actually profit from that image)...it wasn't as easy to react to the hi-jacking as your portray it here...it was an absolutely uncommen and unique event
who would even consider they fly into those buildings? and thus, who would shoot them down only because they were hi-jacked? I keep telling you...there were HUMANS at work...on both sides...

4. he proudly supported the attacks...I don't claim he was behind it...all I do is to disprove that the US did it...logically two different things

5. oh really...so everytime a bomb went up in London, they immediately hid the prime minister or the queen? cause surely the IRA knew exactly where they were and could have easily killed them...

1. If you believe that americans politicians had anything to do with the JFK assassin - then you will know what men in power are capable of. The same 3 questions - Who benefit, who had the power to pull it off and who had the power to cover it up.

2. Dont underestimate the motives

3. There were several warnings of such an attack. Get to know the facts. Also, get to know the timetable. That a plane can crash into the pentagon some time after the biggest terroristattack on american soil, is f%#&ing unbelievable. One guy also testified to the commision that Dick himself ordered the plane not to get shot down. He was in the same room.

4. I didnt ask whether you believe it was him or not. Just saying it was strange that 19 men + osama was guilty the next day when at the same time the bushadm claim not to have any knowledge of such an attack.

5. So you agree that the president should be seated? One thing is that he should be taken into safety, the other thing is that when the country is under attack - shouldnt he do something?

nobody · July 2008

BushLovesEd wrote:

1. If you believe that americans politicians had anything to do with the JFK assassin - then you will now what men in power are capable of. The same 3 questions - Who benefit, who had the power to pull it off and who had the power to cover it up.

2. Dont underestimate the motives

3. There were several warnings of such an attack. Get to know the facts. Also, get to know the timetable. That a plane can crash into the pentagon some time after the biggest terroristattack on american soil, is f%#&ing unbelievable. One guy also testified to the commision that Dick himself ordered the plane not to get shot down. He was in the same room.

4. I didnt ask whether you believe it was him or not. Just saying it was strange that 19 men + osama was guilty the next day when at the same time claim not to have any knowledge of such an attack.

5. So you agree that the president should be seated? One thing is that he should be taken into safety, the other thing is that when the country is under attack - shouldnt he do something?

as I said above...this threat was aimed merely to get some answers to my original question...still I will respond to some of the points you made shortly...

1. there is more than one government(interest group) in the world who can pull it off to kill a statesman...not only the us goverment killing their own president
sure it's possible...but highly unlikely...

2. you please also don't underestimate the motives of actual terrorists!! please...

3. I'm not talking about the pentagon...I was talking about WTC...you still have to deliver some proof THAT this could have been as easily prevented as you claim...

4. strange...well...dunno...it's not strange it was believed one day afterwards that it was some group with aims similiar to Bin Ladens

5. If he acted according to the situation or not...is not the question here...I make a claim I can't prove now...but if he knew about it...don't you think he would try to act surprised...or that the government would try an seize the video that shows him acting so weird??? or is it not as powerful as you claim?
as some one else stated above...on the one hand the US is so powerful to pull such a hoax...on the other they make the silliest of mistakes...highly unlikely...

people should start to realize that in the USA...bridges crumble just like that because of no maintanence...a great many people just live in wooden shacks or trailers...one tornado can kill the energy supply of a whole region for days...those are things people seriously could blame the government for...
!!!the US is a NORMAL country...just like any other...!!!

m.

BushLovesEd · July 2008

Ok, same old story - we dont seem to get any further so lets just agree on disagree..:)

But a NORMAL country like anyone else...? Have u been travelling a lot?

(been to the states lots of times - and love it)

Heineken Helen · July 2008

godpt3 wrote:

Yeah, good luck with that one. As long as the thorazine crowd is allowed to run unmolested through the streets of the pit, you're not going to get coherent answers on this.

Conspiracy theorists are their own special breed of mental illness. They need to feel they have some secret knowledge, because otherwise, they'd have to accept the stark knowledge that nobody is out to get them, nobody cares about them and that their lives are just as pathetic as everyone elses.

what a completely fucking downright ignorant post :mad:

Heineken Helen · July 2008

nobody wrote:

...and this is not a trick question!!!

Who do you believe flew those planes crashing into the WTC?

...the actual pilots? (what was their reward?)
...CIA agents? (reward?)
...Auto-Pilot? (where did the pilots go?)
...empty plaines? (dead passengers?)
...steered by radiowave-transmission (from the ground on? pilots again?)
...Al-Quaida supporters who were tricked into believing it was A-Q behind it?
...A-Q supporters with A-Q instructing them, but A-Q working with the admin?
........???

I believe the people flying the plane were those we've been lead to believe were flying it. I believe everything ON THE DAY happened as we've been told, pretty much! I believe those people did it because they were part of Al Quaeda and because that was what they felt they had to do for whatever reasons. I believe Osama was behind it.

However, despite believing all that, I also believe it was an inside job

work that one out.

Heineken Helen · July 2008

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

I believe very strongly that 9/11 was an inside job, at least to the point where the U.S. was complacent. With that in mind, I'd say your last option is the easiest to believe. But I think it's very possible that it's much deeper and much more corrupt.

Yep. A question like this cannot be answered! Cos many conspiracy theorists believe that a lot of things happen for a reason that we cannot possibly comprehend. Much of it is to do with money and power and I think if we knew the full truth about everything our heads would explode.

The way I look at things... when something big, bad and ugly happens... who benefits? Who has the most to gain from this tragedy? If it's a simple murder, maybe 8 times out of 10 that person will be found guilty. I believe the same rules still apply for the much bigger stuff. BUT when these people have all the power, how the hell would you ever know?

Heineken Helen · July 2008

nobody wrote:

this, as I explain in an edit in the original post, is something entirely different from a common suicide attack.
a suicide attack is carried out against a hated enemy, while the attacker additionally might believe that he does something good and gets extra rewards in heaven...

Obviously the pilots/terrorists were not in on any potential inside job. Since when do these people do their own dirty work? You fool others into doing it FOR you.

even flow? · July 2008

godpt3 wrote:

, they'd have to accept the stark knowledge that nobody is out to get them, nobody cares about them and that their lives are just as pathetic as everyone elses.

Right down to tools who believe they are the chosen race, to tools who think they own specific land, to tools who think another race is out to axe them, to tools who don't think oil had anything to do with going into Iraq, to tools who think that a plane in Penn just crashed leaving a trail how many miles long of crap on the ground. Can I play your game to? It is such an easy game to play.

Heineken Helen · July 2008

nobody wrote:

cause there are easier way to get a war started by the single most spectacular(in a negative way) attack EVER carried out in history...

I believe you just have to claim that a country has weapons of mass destruction...

m.

Pre 9/11 that would NEVER have worked

nobody · July 2008

Heineken Helen wrote:

I believe the people flying the plane were those we've been lead to believe were flying it. I believe everything ON THE DAY happened as we've been told, pretty much! I believe those people did it because they were part of Al Quaeda and because that was what they felt they had to do for whatever reasons. I believe Osama was behind it.

However, despite believing all that, I also believe it was an inside job work that one out.

another model response...thank you very much, Helen:)
that's exactly what this post was aiming at...getting clear reponses

and sorry I repeat myself...
but I think it's necesaary to thank the people who make a statement flat out without evasive tactics...since so few have done that...

so...thanks again Helen:)

m.

Heineken Helen · July 2008

nobody wrote:

that's what I keep repeating...without facts I can form all kinds of opinions

m.

Exactly... many of the 'facts' behind 9/11 simply do not add up... surely even the STRONGEST Bush supporter must have been wondering why family Bin Laden was flown out of the country so quickly

so... without the facts, I can form all kinds of opinions.

I'm not sure about the 'official conspiracy theories' on this one but it seems pretty obvious that all does not add up. Usually that means there's something to it.

To the people who believe 911 was an inside job...

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