To the people who believe 911 was an inside job...

lgt

spiral out wrote:

In that case is the Riechstag not a valid example then?

nobody already claimed why it wasn't a valid and comparable historical example.

The Reichstag was empty and the fire was carried out by a Dutch communist in protest, allegedly.

This plot was then used by the Nazi government to increase suppression of the Communist minority in Germany.

Therefore not a valid comparison.

[while the argument was how can a government suppress the majority of its people, which is what - if you believe 9/11 was an inside job - you would have: the government going after its own people.]

P.S. already answered above while writing this. OPS

Heineken Helen

The Champ wrote:

Now you are just blantently mocking me, my opinions, and my beliefs..waaa..

m.

but that's only cos you pm'd me and asked me to



Nobody and LGT, I am no longer replying to either of you... GO STUDY! You'll thank me later... I know how hard it is to drag myself away from this place .

Oh... and the sooner you DO drag yourself away.. the sooner I'll have won

Heineken Helen

The Champ wrote:

Oh and the sad thing is that some will attempt to cite your links as valid and credible sources ..

well it's better than using http://www.republicansaregreat.com or http://www.americarulestheworld.com or http://www.ilovegeorgebush.com

Flannel Shirt

nobody wrote:

you can't find them, cause this wasn't the question of this threat...
this is not a scientific website...but you might check it out anyway...for some counter-arguments...
beware though: it's not there to prove anything, but to cast doubt on convetional conspiracy theories about it...because the burden of proof lies with them...
http://conspiracyscience.com/

m.

Sorry Red Leader, trying to stay on target.

every time I hear 9/11 and conspiracy, all that comes to mind is the buildings free fall.

who do I think flew the planes into the buildings? a sick fuck relegious extremist who was willing to die and take innocent lives with them.

unless they were remote controlled planes or planes on autopilot.

I personally think it was terrorists. But, the many other questions raised definately muddy the waters and cannot be discounted.

Heineken Helen

Heineken Helen wrote:

well it's better than using http://www.republicansaregreat.com or http://www.americarulestheworld.com or http://www.ilovegeorgebush.com

:eek: I can't believe one of those sites actually exists... well actually, I think I'm more surprised that the other two DON'T

spiral out

lgt wrote:

nobody already claimed why it wasn't a valid and comparable historical example.

The Reichstag was empty and the fire was carried out by a Dutch communist in protest, allegedly.

This plot was then used by the Nazi government to increase suppression of the Communist minority in Germany.

Therefore not a valid comparison.

[while the argument was how can a government suppress the majority of its people, which is what - if you believe 9/11 was an inside job - you would have: the government going after its own people.]

P.S. already answered above while writing this. OPS

In that case i missed what he had written, i was more just going on things that have since been proven to have been done by a government.

nobody

Heineken Helen wrote:

Nobody... we're not going to agree... I respect your opinions and your views but I don't agree... it's no big deal... the sky hasn't fallen in. Go study for your exams and go pass them, ok? I hear eating tuna is good brain food but then of course if you eat too much, you'll die of mercury poisoning :eek:

you can't respect my opinions if you actually distort them in your head and then rewrite to the way you like them...
and that is what you repeatedly did...also in the other threat...
and by this...no serious discussion is possible...

I don't know if you noticed, but the past 20 posts I made actually have nothing to do with 911 or anything political for that matter...they are about how to built up a serious discussion...

but it is okay...I guess that is how internet discussions work...
it was my fault to invest so much time in it...
don't really regret it, though...it has some kind of grip on you...

but I'll get over myself...and in the future engange in discussions that actually make sense...in that they further at least some kind of knowledge and understanding...

have a good evening...and now I mean it...;)

m.

spiral out

nobody wrote:

what didn't happen is that the Nazis told the communist to set the fire and then he let himself be killed for the "cause"

Well i really don't think we will ever see this happen.

Heineken Helen

lgt wrote:

[while the argument was how can a government suppress the majority of its people, which is what - if you believe 9/11 was an inside job - you would have: the government going after its own people.]

plenty of examples of that in Africa and Asia. Many people view what's going on in countries like Cuba, China, Zimbabwe, etc. as governments suppressing the majority of their people. What makes you think western countries are exempt simply cos we have a democratic process. Once somebody is in power it gets easier for them to to eliminate the democratic process. Wasn't there suggestions that bush was gonna get rid of the law that forbade somebody being president 3 terms in a row? He didn't but he obviously coulda... and then he simply could have MADE himself win the third election... cos he's done that before.

Heineken Helen

nobody wrote:

you can't respect my opinions if you actually distort them in your head and then rewrite to the way you like them...
and that is what you repeatedly did...also in the other threat...
and by this...no serious discussion is possible...

I don't know if you noticed, but the past 20 posts I made actually have nothing to do with 911 or anything political for that matter...they are about how to built up a serious discussion...

but it is okay...I guess that is how internet discussions work...
it was my fault to invest so much time in it...
don't really regret it, though...it has some kind of grid...

but I'll get over myself...and in the future engange in discussions that actually make sense...in that they further at least some kind of knowledge and understanding...

have a good evening...and now I mean it...;)

m.

see... I've felt like you've been doing that to me too... so we just misunderstand eachother. We'll clear it up after your exams. Good luck

The Champ

Heineken Helen wrote:

Nobody and LGT, I am no longer replying to either of you..

Just saying ..

Touchofgray16

chipboy wrote:

I don't have any specific theories but 9/11 just doesn't pass the smell test with me. We have a memo to Bush a month before warning of an attack but we are so unprepared we can't scramble fighter planes in time to at least shoot down any of the 4 hijacked planes? The towers have been purchased and insured 6 months before making Larry Silverstein $4 billion on asbestos laden buildings that just evaporate including building 7 which wasn't even hit by a plane. In a world where every traffic light is under video surveillance we have virtually no footage of the Pentagon being hit. All of Bin Laden's family are quickly ushered out of the country. Saudi Arabia is held unaccountable even though that is where the terrorists were from. We invade Iraq causing massive profits for oil companies and military contractors the two industries that Bush/Cheney came from. Cheney's Halliburton traded for about $10 before the Iraq War and was $53 last month. Exxon Mobil was $35 before the Iraq War and was $88 last month. Mission accomplished.

All of this is easily explained without a conspiracy theory but if you trust this corporate run government with anything you are even crazier than the conspiracy nutjobs.

After reading all 19 pages of this thread I went back to this post because it was the only one that spoke to me. Agreed !

g under p

Originally Posted by chipboy
I don't have any specific theories but 9/11 just doesn't pass the smell test with me. We have a memo to Bush a month before warning of an attack but we are so unprepared we can't scramble fighter planes in time to at least shoot down any of the 4 hijacked planes? The towers have been purchased and insured 6 months before making Larry Silverstein $4 billion on asbestos laden buildings that just evaporate including building 7 which wasn't even hit by a plane. In a world where every traffic light is under video surveillance we have virtually no footage of the Pentagon being hit. All of Bin Laden's family are quickly ushered out of the country. Saudi Arabia is held unaccountable even though that is where the terrorists were from. We invade Iraq causing massive profits for oil companies and military contractors the two industries that Bush/Cheney came from. Cheney's Halliburton traded for about $10 before the Iraq War and was $53 last month. Exxon Mobil was $35 before the Iraq War and was $88 last month. Mission accomplished.

All of this is easily explained without a conspiracy theory but if you trust this corporate run government with anything you are even crazier than the conspiracy nutjobs.

Touchofgray16 wrote:

After reading all 19 pages of this thread I went back to this post because it was the only one that spoke to me. Agreed !

Check that there is footage of whatever hit the Pentagon. They're are and were several cameras (on buildings in Northern VA) that recorded what happened that day except OUR GOVERNMENT...FBI confiscated and refuses to release these tapes. They will never release them or it's just impossible to doctour them up to the point of releasing them to the citizens of this country.

There's a question to ask why haven't they release these tapes, why???

Peace

nobody

g under p wrote:

Check that there is footage of whatever hit the Pentagon. They're are and were several cameras (on buildings in Northern VA) that recorded what happened that day except OUR GOVERNMENT...FBI confiscated and refuses to release these tapes. They will never release them or it's just impossible to doctour them up to the point of releasing them to the citizens of this country.

There's a question to ask why haven't they release these tapes, why???

Peace

don't believe the hype...
here you go...
maybe this will help you out:
http://www.judicialwatch.org/flight77.shtml
check video 2!!!!!!! only a few seconds in...

m.

lgt

Heineken Helen wrote:

but that's only cos you pm'd me and asked me to



Nobody and LGT, I am no longer replying to either of you... GO STUDY! You'll thank me later... I know how hard it is to drag myself away from this place

Oh... and the sooner you DO drag yourself away.. the sooner I'll have won

hahaha and now I was basically arguing the same topic in another thread! Time to go and do work

Besides, the pit as stress-relief is a bit of a contradiction of terms, but it's great as avoidance mechanism!

Ciao

argh - smiley limit!!! I'm taking down all of yours!

Heineken Helen

The Champ wrote:

Just saying ..

Oops sorry, I meant to add the champ to that list

Heineken Helen

lgt wrote:

hahaha : D and now I was basically arguing the same topic in another thread! Time to go and do work : )

Besides, the pit as stress-relief is a bit of a contradiction of terms, but it's great as avoidance mechanism! ; )

Ciao : )

argh - smiley limit!!! I'm taking down all of yours! ; )

I really hope you two aren't doing a degree in politics or something :eek: god help us all

good luck.

kenny olav

sorry to resurrect a thread that's been bruised, battered and nearly bled to death, but nobody cares to respond to my giant post on page 8? i spent a lot of damn time on it! ahhhaha... i dunno... i just expected some kind of response. in particular, i would like to read nobody's response. i mean... nobody's response is what i already have... ok... enough puns... somebody respond please... page 8... if you didn't read it yet, i think you'll find it quite appetizing. thanks... your pal, Kenny.

The Champ

Kenny Olav wrote:

I am not a follower of Alex Jones or any of those characters. I am also not an expert in physics, and when I hear physicists explain physics, my brain turns to mush. But I do think that if the towers were brought down with explosives planted inside, then you would think a whole lot of physicists would have figured that out by now. So far, the only physicist I know who thinks explosives were used in the towers is Stephen Jones, a professor at Brigham Young University. I mean no one in their right mind is going to point to Brigham Young as one of the shining stars of the intelligencia. His only major accomplishment was having more than 50 wives. Most of the 9/11 celebrities inspire very little or no confidence in me. Even David Ray Griffin, who is very calm and eloquent, is still primarily a Christian minister, so it's evident he already believes in a myth, which makes it harder for me to take him seriously.

But there is one guy, Michael Ruppert, who's way of thinking I am intrigued by and I think he's on the right path.

Shit, I just found his book Crossing the Rubicon online:
http://books.google.com/books?id=ezyLJrAu1SIC&dq=crossing+the+rubicon&pg=PP1&ots=gfrUdH0AjC&sig=9ZWrgOxGcI2T2a-MGyHeYBfEp5I&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPP1,M1
I'm going to have to read this later!

Basically, he think the 'controlled demotion of the towers' and 'no plane hitting the Pentagon' theories are bunk. He thinks instead that Bush and his co-conspirators did nothing to stop the attacks (why did NORAD stand down?) and may have given financial assistance and directives to Bin Laden and his minions. I'm not sure if he thinks Alex Jones, the Loose Change guys, and their ilk are purposely spreading disinformation and actually working for the bad guys, but that theory is out there too. I don't know though... I mean, how many people could possibly be involved? It can't be too many, can it? Or someone would expose it, whether willingly or unwittingly, right? I mean, can all of the major media figureheads really be in on this? It's hard to believe. How many members of the government would have to be involved?

But back to Ruppert and the LIHOP (Let it Happen on Purpose) theory... this is the only theory I think is possible. And there is evidence out there which leads me to consider it as a strong possibility. Consider than John O'Neill, who was the CIA's main guy on Al-Qaida gave the Bush administration warnings about a likely terrorist attack from Bin Laden... but the Bush administration ignored his warnings, pushed him out of the CIA and then he ends up becoming head of security at the World Trade Center, where on 9/11, he died. Consider this about George W Bush's brother Marvin: "from 1993 until June 2000, he was on the board of directors of the Sterling, Virginia company Stratesec (formerly known as Securacom)which had contracts to provide security for United Airlines, Dulles International Airport, and the World Trade Center." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_P._Bush) I mean, fuck, that's weird. Consider that George W. Bush is an insensitive asshole. Sorry, that's cheesy... but fuck... it's relevant! I mean, there is plenty reason to think that Bush, Cheney and Co. are completely capable of doing what most people think FDR did during Pearl Harbor... instigate a terrorist attack (yes, FDR pissed off the Japanese in Indonesia, don't ya know?) and then launch a war they were clearly itchin' to start. So I'm skeptical of these motherfuckers. How can I not be? They were already guilty of criminal activity before 9/11. They were already guilty of serving corporate interests, no matter who dies. They were already murderers. 9/11, if they had a role, would actually be one of their least heinous crimes.

And yes, I of course believe that there are plenty of muslim extremists who would love to be involved in an attack like 9/11. And despite the insanity of their religious convictions, they have some legitimate grievances. Our government, no matter what party is in power, has always assisted tyrannical governments in the middle east who provide our country with oil. It started when FDR formed an alliance with Saudi Arabia, and it continued on as the Feds deposed a democratically elected President in Iran, in favor of the royal Shah, which led to the backlash that spawned the Islamic Revolution. The CIA later trained Osama bin Laden and the mujahadeen in Afghanistan to help overthrow the socialist regime. Under the socialists, women went to school, and under the Taliban, who we supported all the way up until 2001 (read about Colin Powell giving millions of dollars to them in May of 2001 I believe)... well we all know how women fared under that regime. Oh, and Taliban members visted Bush while he was the Governor of Texas! This is all in the public record folks!!! Do some research... I'm getting tired of doing it for you!!!!

Back to Michael Ruppert. Unlike Alex Jones, who has made a good living with his shtick.... Mr. Ruppert was harassed, given "malicious" threats, and went to live in exile in Venezuela! he recently returned to the U.S. but has kept a low profile. So that's suspicious.

And there's more to say, but dammit, I'm tired.

Interesting stuff Kenny..

nobody

Kenny Olav wrote:

sorry to resurrect a thread that's been bruised, battered and nearly bled to death, but nobody cares to respond to my giant post on page 8? i spent a lot of damn time on it! ahhhaha... i dunno... i just expected some kind of response. in particular, i would like to read nobody's response. i mean... nobody's response is what i already have... ok... enough puns... somebody respond please... page 8... if you didn't read it yet, i think you'll find it quite appetizing. thanks... your pal, Kenny.

hey Kenny

interesting stuff indeed. and I don't have a definite answer to it right now...
let me just say this: if you claim in this forum that 911 wasn't DONE by the US you are accused of believing in everything the government says (because people live in a black and white world, where you either believe everything or nothing, you are either for them or against them)->and in this way you can't have a constructive debate.

I have never ever claimed that I believe everything any politician says for that matter. And this threat wasn't about if there was some unsolved questions in 911. It had a specific question directed to people who say that Bush(or his masters) are behind the attack. I put myself into the position of someone who believes in a inside job...and this was simply the first question that came to my mind
you have to solve one problem at a time...and yes, even look into details...cause if a detail that is central in one's argument just doesn't make any sense...there is something wrong with that argument

and I think...if terrorists didn't fly this plane...it is pretty hard to explain how anyone would even have the slightest interest in killing himself doing it (except if you claim they were "brain-washed")

I raised a legitimate question...and people start telling me I believe everything the government says or ask how I can think that the government doesn't have anything to hide. this is nuts...and who claims that this is how any debate works, has a problem...
cause he will never learn anything, that he doesn't already know!

sorry for not adressing your post in more detail. I simply don't have time anymore. For now I was tackling the BUsh has done it story, not the Bush let it happen story...which are 2 TOTALLY different issues.

but if you want my personal superficial opinion at this point: I think it is highly unlikely that the US governmet just let's thousands of its citizens being killed in a terrorist attack for whatever motive...
is it possible that they didn't IGNORE warnings, but just didn't take them serious?...yes...is that a major error?...yes...does it make the government run by fools?...yes...does it make the government evil...no...does that make the government do it on purpose to have civilians die in order to wage war afterwards...no...

good day, my friends...
m.