all it takes for something to exist is...

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  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    soulsinging wrote:
    i see you having delusions of grandeur... a martyred profit years ahead of the rest of us cowardly peasants. what i dont see is what difference any of your views make? nobody on here is attempting to stop scientific research or deny the influence of the brain over our actions. let me ask you, suppose everyone on here accepted your views that we are incapable of original thought and are simply robots reacting to stimuli like the ball in a pinball machine. what difference does this make for the world? when we si down for dinner, does this affect our decision to eat salmon instead of steak? does it change our word choice on the pit? what impact does your philosophical belief system have on a person's day to day life?

    i didn't have the nerve to put it this way but i do agree. i was going to use the words "superiority complex" but you did a good job.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Then how could you possibly lose respect for Dan? When did he stop being a "rational deliberator"?

    I have respect for his position as a rational deliberator, it's his opinions of myself I do not respect.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    soulsinging wrote:
    i see you having delusions of grandeur... a martyred prophet years ahead of the rest of us cowardly peasants. what i dont see is what difference any of your views make? nobody on here is attempting to stop scientific research or deny the influence of the brain over our actions. let me ask you, suppose everyone on here accepted your views that we are incapable of original thought and are simply robots reacting to stimuli like the ball in a pinball machine. what difference does this make for the world? when we si down for dinner, does this affect our decision to eat salmon instead of steak? does it change our word choice on the pit? what impact does your philosophical belief system have on a person's day to day life?

    It pertains to social issues of morality. It also empowers us to make better decisions when we recognize what influences are affecting our decision making.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Ahnimus wrote:
    It pertains to social issues of morality. It also empowers us to make better decisions when we recognize what influences are affecting our decision making.

    what kinds of decisions? again, steak or salmon... is there a better one? how does this at all impact morality? under your system any behavior is condoned becos it is all inevitable. raping, stealing, killing... it's all just hardwired.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    i didn't have the nerve to put it this way but i do agree. i was going to use the words "superiority complex" but you did a good job.

    I view it as a solid understanding of the field of research to which I've dedicated much of my time. I really have no idea what affect selenium has on cattle feed. It's not my area of interest. I suspect that if I were to engage in such conversation with you, I would need to be prepared with a solid understanding. I concede to you that your knowledge of cattle feed surpasses my own. Would you not grant me the same respect?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    Ahnimus wrote:
    That's an interesting way of dealing with cognitive dissonance across brains. ;) I like it.

    I break things down to their simplest core. :eek: I'm sure what I mean anymore. This thread is hilarious. Thanks cate. :D:D
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    soulsinging wrote:
    what kinds of decisions? again, steak or salmon... is there a better one? how does this at all impact morality? under your system any behavior is condoned becos it is all inevitable. raping, stealing, killing... it's all just hardwired.

    Not hardwired in every case, but strongly influenced. It allows us to develop humane systems of rehabilitation, contrary to our current methods.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I think that goes without saying.

    During synaptogenesis the brain develops by receiving stimuli and wiring neurons together via synapses. According to Hebb's rule, the more neurons fire, the closer they wire. Overtime this creates a strong engram, as in elderly people, these engrams can be indestructable. The more a person is exposed to an idea, the more they think about it, the stronger the engram grows. The stronger the engram, the more they think about the idea, the more they believe it. Thus why you cannot teach an old dog new tricks, or why ideas like God have lasted so long. Why new ideas like hard determinism and evolution are shunned. Regardless of their correctness, these new ideas lack the potency required to destroy the existing engrams. During a stage of cognitive dissonance, these new ideas with their weak engrams battle the existing ideas and their stronger engrams. It is almost inevitably the older ideas that win favour.

    which just proved don hebb wrong. if true; the newer discoveries would be made by young scientists. this is not the case. in fact; it's the younger scientists that insist they are right or their way is the proper way. (sound like anyone here?) it is the older mind which draws from experience.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I think that goes without saying.

    During synaptogenesis the brain develops by receiving stimuli and wiring neurons together via synapses. According to Hebb's rule, the more neurons fire, the closer they wire. Overtime this creates a strong engram, as in elderly people, these engrams can be indestructable. The more a person is exposed to an idea, the more they think about it, the stronger the engram grows. The stronger the engram, the more they think about the idea, the more they believe it. Thus why you cannot teach an old dog new tricks, or why ideas like God have lasted so long. Why new ideas like hard determinism and evolution are shunned. Regardless of their correctness, these new ideas lack the potency required to destroy the existing engrams. During a stage of cognitive dissonance, these new ideas with their weak engrams battle the existing ideas and their stronger engrams. It is almost inevitably the older ideas that win favour.

    That makes sense. Accurate observation.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    That makes sense. Accurate observation.
    I agree.
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    which just proved don hebb wrong. if true; the newer discoveries would be made by young scientists. this is not the case. in fact; it's the younger scientists that insist they are right or their way is the proper way. (sound like anyone here?) it is the older mind which draws from experience.

    If you ignore the possibility of other variables.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I view it as a solid understanding of the field of research to which I've dedicated much of my time. I really have no idea what affect selenium has on cattle feed. It's not my area of interest. I suspect that if I were to engage in such conversation with you, I would need to be prepared with a solid understanding. I concede to you that your knowledge of cattle feed surpasses my own. Would you not grant me the same respect?

    i really try to. but when you close your mind to other possabilities; it's hard to respect that. if you presented it as a possability; i could respect that much more than having something shoved down my throat. i've been around long enough to see things come and go. theories; procedures; and everything else. if i wasn't interested; i wouldn't still be reading. but again; i'm reading with an open mind and viewing it as a possability and making my determination from there.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    why am I thinking post #347... :D
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    i really try to. but when you close your mind to other possabilities; it's hard to respect that. if you presented it as a possability; i could respect that much more than having something shoved down my throat. i've been around long enough to see things come and go. theories; procedures; and everything else. if i wasn't interested; i wouldn't still be reading. but again; i'm reading with an open mind and viewing it as a possability and making my determination from there.

    So it's just my character you've closed your mind to?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    well well well, the idiots truly have taken over the asylum. :D


    jeez guys why don't you just whip 'em out and we'll see whose is bigger? :D:p
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    i really try to. but when you close your mind to other possabilities; it's hard to respect that. if you presented it as a possability; i could respect that much more than having something shoved down my throat. i've been around long enough to see things come and go. theories; procedures; and everything else. if i wasn't interested; i wouldn't still be reading. but again; i'm reading with an open mind and viewing it as a possability and making my determination from there.

    I'm curious what the other possibility is? The Cartesan Theatre?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    catefrances wrote:
    jeez guys why don't you just whip 'em out and we'll see whose is bigger? :D:p

    No contest ;)
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • angelica
    angelica Posts: 6,038
    catefrances wrote:
    jeez guys why don't you just whip 'em out and we'll see whose is bigger? :D:p

    No, really my intellectual endowments are bigger! :D
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

    http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta

    Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    angelica wrote:
    No, really my intellectual endowments are bigger! :D

    Oh, are we talking about intellect? Damn, you might have me beat.

    What happened to this thread? It was swarming, and just as it started to get interesting it turned desolate.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I'm curious what the other possibility is? The Cartesan Theatre?

    maybe we haven't found it yet? maybe it's been right in front of our eyes all along?

    in 1635 galleleo was ordered assassinated because he presented the theory that the earth revolved around the sun. which of course went against all known knowledge at that time. neither of us can say for sure. my research shows that 125 years ago; beef was healthy to eat and promoted good health. it also shows that beef today causes cancer. current law forbids me from announcing a cure for cancer until it can be recreated "in pill form" because of pharmacutical laws.

    so honestly; i don't know what the other possability could be. i won't close my mind because each day brings new discoveries. therefore we won't find THE ANSWER. we only find answers until more information is discovered.

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