Awareness of the self is an interesting thing. We could probably talk for hours about two completely different things. First of all, what is self? If it's our entire being from head to toe, body and mind, then of course animals are self-aware, so are computers. A computer software is written to detect input from it's organs, that makes it a sentient being, and self-aware. We just have a more complex software, far superior than modern computers or any other specie for that matter. I have no doubt that some animals have consciousness' more closely resembling ours, but on the other hand, I don't think chickens are all there. Being that consciousness/self-awareness is dispersed throughout the brain, I believe consciousness is just a function of brain processing. Our brains are aware of what our brains are doing, so it only makes sense that that would be consciousness. It just happens that not everything gets heard as loudly, or due to time constraints things are filtered. I don't know, but there is no doubt in my mind that all living organisms down to bacteria are self-aware.
This was the post that trigegred my comment about reductionism. It was the question "what is self ?". Maybe I overreacted, but I didn't want to get dragged back into a discussion about trying to define self etc, when what I was really talking about was observable behaviour, so a different level of reductionism.
Chickens, I agree, are not really there, neither are sheep. I once saw a sheep at dog trial panic thought the dog was being very calm and patient, and runblindly into a fence post and actually knock itself out in an atempt to escape the danger of the dog. Now, that's stupid !! The dog , on the other hand was demonstrating a sophisticated degree of awareness, cos it could see the sheep was about to bolt, and was trying to calm it by standing off. I swear it damn near rolled it's eyes when the dumb sheep knocked itself out !! LOL!!!!!!
I don't consider you a better human being and I do not wish to be like you. I'm happy with who I am and have no intention of changing. Accept it.
Tell me where I wrote that I think I'm a better human being than you?
Tell me where I wrote that I think you should be like me?
And if you a planning to remain static for the rest of your life and not change then I might just hang around to watch you attempt that.
Never seen it done before. Best be staying away from university if you aren't planning on changing.
And why do I have to accept it? Clearly you aren't advocating acceptance of me. Oh wait........have I just made an assumption about your thoughts and feelings and opinions? Hmmmmm......................................
Neither. the reductionsim that I am referring to, is trying to reduce the question, or take it back to the most elementary starting point, eg, like trying to find teh beginnign of a story, when there is always a precedent chapter. If that is the question, that is fone, but in this case, I need to be able to refer to myself, wihout having to argue that I exist.
I'm not saying that reductionism is useless, just that it has it's pplace. For exaple, you can studt phsiology without reducing it to biochemistry, or molocular geneetics or quantum mechanics, which are all possible levels of looking at the same problem.
Again, very nice, lucy.
I agree with this perspective Ahnimus, and this is much more concise and probably illustrative than anything I'd have come up with.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Maybe if the criticism was more constructive than insulting, progress could be made. I completely see how it's important to be aware of others feelings when communicating on a message board. Everyone here wants to be validated and understood to a certain extent. When people are simply shutting out others and dismissing their views as pointless or silly, it creates so much tension and aggravation (not a healthy environment for learning or opening one's self to new ideas). But at the same time, insulting another for their lack of social skills by ridiculing them is showing the same inability at communication. No one is going to open themselves up to advice when it's filled with negative personal remarks. It winds up being shut out and lost...which makes it just as pointless.
it's my gf's fault... if i was getting laid i wouldn't be so pissed off at the world these days law school sucks when you have no outlet for stress, hehe.
It's the degree of reductionism that you were pursuing at that point that I was taking issue with. the post is lost about 10 pages back, but I felt that you took the discussion back a bit too far. Not all science is based on reductionism. The trick is to get your level just right for the problem at hand.
For example, while biochemical changes in the brain are present in a person suffering from depression, it is not helpful to focus on that when the cause of depression is usually something more prosaic , like financial trouble, or conflict at work. You need to identify the right level of complexity at which the problem occurs, and direct your interest and intervention there.
It's one thing for science to discover that disease is caused by bacteria, and then you can look at things like encapsulated vs non-encapsulated strains, and the action of different anntibiotics at a molecular level, but infectious disease is really prevented at a public health level of handwashing and correct food handling and storage.
I'm so with you, dude. The part about what perspective to use given your purposes is completely where it's at. And I love your example of the financial trouble, which indicates a subjective experience rather than a brain process, even though they are, of course, related. Beautiful.
And the handwashing thing as well. Great job, lucy.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
it's my gf's fault... if i was getting laid i wouldn't be so pissed off at the world these days law school sucks when you have no outlet for stress, hehe.
I've heard some folks swear by running!!
Or you could take the easy option like me and drink!!!
Or you could take the easy option like me and drink!!!
ah, my body's shot from cross country, so i cant run. i do work out 4 times a week now, but it doesn't seem to help. drinking is not an option for me... it's been 2 years since i played with that fire and i REALLY don't want to go back to jail. so ive been stuck with steady and frequent porn use. like i said, until i can find a mistress!
ah, my body's shot from cross country, so i cant run. i do work out 4 times a week now, but it doesn't seem to help. drinking is not an option for me... it's been 2 years since i played with that fire and i REALLY don't want to go back to jail. so ive been stuck with steady and frequent porn use. like i said, until i can find a mistress!
damn ss! That sounds like hell on earth!!! :(
Think I'll stick with the drinking. Just enough to get me to nod off to sleep.
Too much and I'm in real trouble!!! :eek:
Yep you need a mistress! Or a blow up dolly!
Good luck! It's a shocker of a situation to find yourself in.
...for someone to believe it does. agree/disagree?
i think it depends where this *existence* occurs. to exist in the mind, and/or to exist in the real/physical/3D world......not mutually exclusive by any stretch, and also fully impacts whether i can agree/disagree to this *existence* Q in the first place.
i think it depends where this *existence* occurs. to exist in the mind, and/or to exist in the real/physical/3D world......not mutually exclusive by any stretch, and also fully impacts whether i can agree/disagree to this *existence* Q in the first place.
ah thank you dream girl!
Finally an answer to the original post that I understand and can agree with.
And it only took one smart girl and how many pages?
Finally an answer to the original post that I understand and can agree with.
And it only took one smart girl and how many pages?
well as in most things of a philosophical nature, one usually doesn't find 'answers' per se.....just find more questions. it's all quite circular in my mind.....belief - existence - existence - belief...and so it goes. unless we have such a god-complex to believe that our beliefs can create actual *existence*....seems like well yea, the mere act of *thinking* DOES *make* something *exist*......but did we create it, DOES it EXIST? or, does something exist...and we never know it exists...and exists it does, nonetheless...and so it goes, and on, and on....ad infinitum.
and yea, smart girls have their posts per page set to 40...so yea, 15 pages here.
well as in most things of a philosophical nature, one usually doesn't find 'answers' per se.....just find more questions. it's all quite circular in my mind.....belief - existence - existence - belief...and so it goes. unless we have such a god-complex to believe that our beliefs can create actual *existence*....seems like well yea, the mere act of *thinking* DOES *make* something *exist*......but did we create it, DOES it EXIST? or, does something exist...and we never know it exists...and exists it does, nonetheless...and so it goes, and on, and on....ad infinitum.
and yea, smart girls have their posts per page set to 40...so yea, 15 pages here.
And I think that's exactly what I think too. I've just been struggling for words and this thread is not the place to struggle in full view.
Think I'll stick with the drinking. Just enough to get me to nod off to sleep.
Too much and I'm in real trouble!!! :eek:
Yep you need a mistress! Or a blow up dolly!
Good luck! It's a shocker of a situation to find yourself in.
the shocker... there's an idea... put it to use on the mistress, hmm...
anyway, it's not hell at all. im a whole lot happier without it. it was hell when i was playing with that stuff. though it does impede my ability to find women willing to have a one night stand. they usually have to be drunk for that, cos otherwise they worry too much about getting a slut label.
ah, my body's shot from cross country, so i cant run. i do work out 4 times a week now, but it doesn't seem to help. drinking is not an option for me... it's been 2 years since i played with that fire and i REALLY don't want to go back to jail. so ive been stuck with steady and frequent porn use. like i said, until i can find a mistress!
Man , I really sympathise with you. Girls just don't realise that a man's brain stops working after a week without sex. Of course, they don't acknowledge that our brains ever work !!
Man , I really sympathise with you. Girls just don't realise that a man's brain stops working after a week without sex. Of course, they don't acknowledge that our brains ever work !!
lucy you should read the six pack, pecs or ass thread!!
the shocker... there's an idea... put it to use on the mistress, hmm...
anyway, it's not hell at all. im a whole lot happier without it. it was hell when i was playing with that stuff. though it does impede my ability to find women willing to have a one night stand. they usually have to be drunk for that, cos otherwise they worry too much about getting a slut label.
this is the blow up doll right?
and not the ham shank? :eek:
I was thinking that the shocker was all the exercise and not the drinking.
And you don't need to be drunk for the one night stand ss, she does!
I'm sure sober you could convince her she's fabulous and not the least bit slutty.
I myself take the grog over the exercise as a frustation release any day!
But your plan is also a good one. Appears neither of us have come up with a comfortable solution yet.
i think it depends where this *existence* occurs. to exist in the mind, and/or to exist in the real/physical/3D world......not mutually exclusive by any stretch, and also fully impacts whether i can agree/disagree to this *existence* Q in the first place.
so if something exists only in the mind then it doesn't really exist at all. is that what you're saying? that something must have physical tangibility in order for it to truly exist?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Man , I really sympathise with you. Girls just don't realise that a man's brain stops working after a week without sex. Of course, they don't acknowledge that our brains ever work !!
oh lucy, we know your brain works. how else could you mow the lawn?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I was thinking that the shocker was all the exercise and not the drinking.
And you don't need to be drunk for the one night stand ss, she does!
I'm sure sober you could convince her she's fabulous and not the least bit slutty.
I myself take the grog over the exercise as a frustation release any day!
But your plan is also a good one. Appears neither of us have come up with a comfortable solution yet.
without the alcohol... and the shocker is a technique for use on women... perhaps it's an american thing...
but yeah, i dont meet many drunk women anymore. i should go to bar review sometime, work on that!
Comments
This was the post that trigegred my comment about reductionism. It was the question "what is self ?". Maybe I overreacted, but I didn't want to get dragged back into a discussion about trying to define self etc, when what I was really talking about was observable behaviour, so a different level of reductionism.
Chickens, I agree, are not really there, neither are sheep. I once saw a sheep at dog trial panic thought the dog was being very calm and patient, and runblindly into a fence post and actually knock itself out in an atempt to escape the danger of the dog. Now, that's stupid !! The dog , on the other hand was demonstrating a sophisticated degree of awareness, cos it could see the sheep was about to bolt, and was trying to calm it by standing off. I swear it damn near rolled it's eyes when the dumb sheep knocked itself out !! LOL!!!!!!
Tell me where I wrote that I think I'm a better human being than you?
Tell me where I wrote that I think you should be like me?
And if you a planning to remain static for the rest of your life and not change then I might just hang around to watch you attempt that.
Never seen it done before. Best be staying away from university if you aren't planning on changing.
And why do I have to accept it? Clearly you aren't advocating acceptance of me. Oh wait........have I just made an assumption about your thoughts and feelings and opinions? Hmmmmm......................................
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I agree with this perspective Ahnimus, and this is much more concise and probably illustrative than anything I'd have come up with.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
it's my gf's fault... if i was getting laid i wouldn't be so pissed off at the world these days
And the handwashing thing as well. Great job, lucy.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I've heard some folks swear by running!!
Or you could take the easy option like me and drink!!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
ah, my body's shot from cross country, so i cant run. i do work out 4 times a week now, but it doesn't seem to help. drinking is not an option for me... it's been 2 years since i played with that fire and i REALLY don't want to go back to jail. so ive been stuck with steady and frequent porn use. like i said, until i can find a mistress!
damn ss! That sounds like hell on earth!!! :(
Think I'll stick with the drinking. Just enough to get me to nod off to sleep.
Too much and I'm in real trouble!!! :eek:
Yep you need a mistress! Or a blow up dolly!
Good luck! It's a shocker of a situation to find yourself in.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
i think it depends where this *existence* occurs. to exist in the mind, and/or to exist in the real/physical/3D world......not mutually exclusive by any stretch, and also fully impacts whether i can agree/disagree to this *existence* Q in the first place.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
A shank of ham can be nifty.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Warmed up a bit is the best answer I can give.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
ah thank you dream girl!
Finally an answer to the original post that I understand and can agree with.
And it only took one smart girl and how many pages?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
well as in most things of a philosophical nature, one usually doesn't find 'answers' per se.....just find more questions.
and yea, smart girls have their posts per page set to 40...so yea, 15 pages here.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
GOOD GRIEF!!!!! :eek:
My head hurts!!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
wait til you get to the waterfall.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
And I think that's exactly what I think too. I've just been struggling for words and this thread is not the place to struggle in full view.
hehe!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
:eek: Yes I think I caught a glimpse of what's in store at the waterfall!! :eek:
So is ss supposed to be utilizing this ham shank therapy of yours too?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
You'd have to ask a koala bear.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
Doubt they'd answer! Mostly asleep or stoned on eucalyptus!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
the shocker... there's an idea... put it to use on the mistress, hmm...
anyway, it's not hell at all. im a whole lot happier without it. it was hell when i was playing with that stuff. though it does impede my ability to find women willing to have a one night stand. they usually have to be drunk for that, cos otherwise they worry too much about getting a slut label.
Man , I really sympathise with you. Girls just don't realise that a man's brain stops working after a week without sex. Of course, they don't acknowledge that our brains ever work !!
lucy you should read the six pack, pecs or ass thread!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
this is the blow up doll right?
and not the ham shank? :eek:
I was thinking that the shocker was all the exercise and not the drinking.
And you don't need to be drunk for the one night stand ss, she does!
I'm sure sober you could convince her she's fabulous and not the least bit slutty.
I myself take the grog over the exercise as a frustation release any day!
But your plan is also a good one. Appears neither of us have come up with a comfortable solution yet.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
so if something exists only in the mind then it doesn't really exist at all. is that what you're saying? that something must have physical tangibility in order for it to truly exist?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
oh lucy, we know your brain works. how else could you mow the lawn?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
without the alcohol... and the shocker is a technique for use on women... perhaps it's an american thing...
but yeah, i dont meet many drunk women anymore. i should go to bar review sometime, work on that!
NIce one, centurion !!