World would be worse off without faith...

soulsinging · March 2007

chopitdown wrote:

he was also human. I'm willing to bet most people when they have nails going through them and get whipped etc... wouldn't be able to suck it up. Crucifixion is brutal. His death (and really his resurrection) was necessary to make a new covenant. If he would've ascended to heaven without dying and w/o feeling pain he wouldn't have been the messiah that was predicted the years before.

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/GillsExpositionoftheBible/gil.cgi?book=mt&chapter=027&verse=42
Let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.
The Persic version reads, "that the people may see, and believe in him"; and the Syriac and Arabic versions, "that we may see, and believe in him", as in (Mark 15:32) . But, alas! they had seen greater things already than this, and yet had not believed. He could easily have caused the nails to have given way, and unloosed himself, and come down, who had done such mighty works among them; and if he had, there is no reason to conclude they would have believed him to be the Son of God, and the true Messiah; for though after this, he did a much greater work, raised himself from the dead, of which they had the fullest evidence, yet they remained unbelieving.

great story. this woulda made a fantastic sci-fi movie.

chopitdown · March 2007

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I think that you need to find heaven while living not wait for it your whole life and expect it at the end.

how do you mean? B/c on some level I agree with you about finding heaven while living...at least metaphorically.

soulsinging · March 2007

even flow? wrote:

Strange we all supposedly will get to heaven but Jesus' whole body was supposedly witnessed when our time comes with our rotten luck, our souls only go. Such a pity.

speak for yourself... im honest, my body aint exactly worth holding onto forever. i have enough trouble getting laid here, im not going through the same in heaven for all eternity.

chopitdown · March 2007

soulsinging wrote:

great story. this woulda made a fantastic sci-fi movie.

i think it was already made...even won some awards

soulsinging · March 2007

chopitdown wrote:

maybe he knew what his role on Earth was and w/o his death there would be no chance for redemption for all??? I'm sure he did want to escape it but my guess is he knew what he was supposed to do and had to do.

Here's an excerpt from Matt. that shows he wanted to run

And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, 39 "My Father, if it is possible, let (AX)this cup (death) pass from Me; (AY)yet not as I will, but as You will."
42He went away again a second time and prayed, saying, "My Father, if this (BC)cannot pass away unless I drink it, (BD)Your will be done."

46"Get up, let us be going; behold, the one who betrays Me is at hand!"
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=26&version=49

I don't want to get into contradictions...again. There are reasonable explanations for the supposed contradictions but if your mind and my mind are made up then it's kinda pointless...Now if there were beer involved we could have those discussions.

nice guy, that god dude. i can really see his unconditional love... assuming you satisfy the requirements of the brutal slaughter of an innocent son and a lifetime of abject worship and devotion... THEN his love is unconditional.

even flow? · March 2007

chopitdown wrote:

maybe he knew what his role on Earth was and w/o his death there would be no chance for redemption for all??? I'm sure he did want to escape it but my guess is he knew what he was supposed to do and had to do.

Here's an excerpt from Matt. that shows he wanted to run

And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, 39 "My Father, if it is possible, let (AX)this cup (death) pass from Me; (AY)yet not as I will, but as You will."
42He went away again a second time and prayed, saying, "My Father, if this (BC)cannot pass away unless I drink it, (BD)Your will be done."

46"Get up, let us be going; behold, the one who betrays Me is at hand!"
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=26&version=49

I don't want to get into contradictions...again. There are reasonable explanations for the supposed contradictions but if your mind and my mind are made up then it's kinda pointless...Now if there were beer involved we could have those discussions.

So I can safely say without pissing off anybody that god is a man according to Jesus? Or is it a figurative word, "father"?

Do you ever wonder if the world was even worse than it is now when that flood came and wiped everybody off the Earth? And if the world is worse. Which is quite possible given the more people that inhabit it. What the hell is god waiting for now? And would somebody like me who leads a good, strong, solid life have to die too? Would that put me on the same footing as Jesus?

soulsinging · March 2007

chopitdown wrote:

i think it was already made...even won some awards

you're talking about the matrix right? cos i wasn't referring to the perverted snuff film called the passion. i meant the cool story of a dude with superhuman powers fighting back against the destruction of humanity with a bitchin sacrifice out of love.

chopitdown · March 2007

even flow? wrote:

So I can safely say without pissing off anybody that god is a man according to Jesus? Or is it a figurative word, "father"?

Do you ever wonder if the world was even worse than it is now when that flood came and wiped everybody off the Earth? And if the world is worse. Which is quite possible given the more people that inhabit it. What the hell is god waiting for now? And would somebody like me who leads a good, strong, solid life have to die too? Would that put me on the same footing as Jesus?

It's figurative for God...b/c jesus was the son of God.

I don't know what God's waiting for. The only way that any of us are on the same footing as Jesus is to be perfect.

even flow? · March 2007

chopitdown wrote:

It's figurative for God...b/c jesus was the son of God.

I don't know what God's waiting for. The only way that any of us are on the same footing as Jesus is to be perfect.

Hold on a sec. Jesus tripped while carrying the cross. How perfect is that? And he didn't take his beating like a man. Just two off the top of my head.

Do we have to wait for a whole city to become fags like in Soddam and Gomorah? A clash of religions? Come on god give us all a sign. A real 21st century sign.

I guess god is a man because he impregnated a girl. Would have been too good a miracle to have it the other way. To really prove a point.

chopitdown · March 2007

soulsinging wrote:

you're talking about the matrix right? cos i wasn't referring to the perverted snuff film called the passion. i meant the cool story of a dude with superhuman powers fighting back against the destruction of humanity with a bitchin sacrifice out of love.

I know what you're thinking, 'cause right now I'm thinking the same thing. Actually, I've been thinking it ever since I got here: Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?

farfromglorified · March 2007

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I see a problem in most people of faiths whole 'get to heaven' process. I think that you need to find heaven while living not wait for it your whole life and expect it at the end.

Hehe...precisely. But if heaven were here, what could those in power hold over you, abook?

chopitdown · March 2007

even flow? wrote:

Hold on a sec. Jesus tripped while carrying the cross. How perfect is that? And he didn't take his beating like a man. Just two off the top of my head.

Do we have to wait for a whole city to become fags like in Soddam and Gomorah? A clash of religions? Come on god give us all a sign. A real 21st century sign.

I guess god is a man because he impregnated a girl. Would have been too good a miracle to have it the other way. To really prove a point.

since when is tripping or crying a sin?

If you had a real sign...would it really make a difference to you? Just asking.

Yeah, I guess a virgin giving birth to a baby really doesn't seem THAT amazing. Maybe more would be convinced if Joseph would've given birth.

farfromglorified · March 2007

chopitdown wrote:

Maybe more would be convinced if Joseph would've given birth.

Now that's religion....

even flow? · March 2007

chopitdown wrote:

If you had a real sign...would it really make a difference to you? Just asking.

Of course it would. But it would have to be a real sign. I didn't get religion rammed down my throat growing up to be a complete doubting Thomas. Well yes I did.

chopitdown · March 2007

farfromglorified wrote:

Now that's religion....

of course then we'd have Ahnimus saying it's scientifically impossibe for a man to give birth so there would still be detractors

...just messing with ya.

farfromglorified · March 2007

chopitdown wrote:

of course then we'd have Ahnimus saying it's scientifically impossibe for a man to give birth so there would still be detractors ...just messing with ya.

Hehe...yep.

chopitdown · March 2007

even flow? wrote:

Of course it would. But it would have to be a real sign. I didn't get religion rammed down my throat growing up to be a complete doubting Thomas. Well yes I did.

here's one...look what God can use nature to do

http://www.angelfire.com/blog/rgrydns/Pictures/Hell.jpg

http://www.theaterhopper.com/vault/040827.jpg

even flow? · March 2007

chopitdown wrote:

here's one...look what God can use nature to do
http://www.angelfire.com/blog/rgrydns/Pictures/Hell.jpg

This link isn't working. But if it is some picture of Bin Laden's face in the fire I won't buy it.

As for the other one. Should they really tell mankind the end is coming?

onelongsong · March 2007

gossardstradlin wrote:

I appreciate your concern. Let me explain a little bit... I believe if the majority of human beings had only themselves and others to believe in, that this planet is "it" and there is nothing else that the majority would be out only for themselves and the violence and destruction would be much greater.

I realize that much of it, the violence, comes from beliefs, specifically religious beliefs, but I am still willing to say without these beliefs in a greater being or spirituality that everything would be much worse. What's to stop people??

Just thought I would post this because I think religion and faith gets a certain rap (even on this board-shocking, I know) sometimes, but is very good for many people.

and the world really went to hell when athiesm became really popular in the 70's. it took away accountability. when i was young i was taught that i had to answer to God for my actions. thus i tried to be as good as possible. if it wasn't for that accountability; i would have been a hell raiser like my athiest raised friends. 99% of which are dead or in jail. and i was grateful to know someone was watching over me. i've had several instances where i should have died. i've had premonitions about places that turned out to be true.
the universe is too complicated to be an accident. from it's formation to the vast number of life forms.

chopitdown · March 2007

even flow? wrote:

This link isn't working. But if it is some picture of Bin Laden's face in the fire I won't buy it.

As for the other one. Should they really tell mankind the end is coming?

nah, it's a picture of a frozen "hell" sign...try this one http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/~ladelia/images/Hell%20freezing%20over.jpg

if it doesn't work, it just wasn't meant to be

World would be worse off without faith...

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