How can Israel deal with the palestinians?

miller8966
miller8966 Posts: 1,450
edited December 2006 in A Moving Train
When obviously they cant keep it together.
America...the greatest Country in the world.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    That's the equivalent of asking how the Nazis can deal with the Jews. Your racist thread should be fucking banned.
  • Truthmonger
    Truthmonger Posts: 559
    For years, people who generally supported the Palestinians, and who occasionally offered explanantions for their actions, would say that there is often violence (even during ceasefires) because there is no such thing as a single Palestinian voice. Thus you would always have minority/splinter groups who did not recognize the "official" line of the Palestinians as it related to Israel.

    I find it funny that such an explanation was always refuted by those on the right, or those who supported Israel. And they did it, I suppose, because it was convenient for them to do so - to label the Palestinians and decry their actions. Fingers were always pointed at Arafat, for example, as someone who just wasn't trying very hard. But don't the recent actions just demonstrate the above point - namely, that there really is no solid consensus with the Palestinians ?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Truthmonger wrote:
    For years, people who generally supported the Palestinians, and who occasionally offered explanantions for their actions, would say that there is often violence (even during ceasefires) because there is no such thing as a single Palestinian voice. Thus you would always have minority/splinter groups who did not recognize the "official" line of the Palestinians as it related to Israel.

    I find it funny that such an explanation was always refuted by those on the right, or those who supported Israel. And they did it, I suppose, because it was convenient for them to do so - to label the Palestinians and decry their actions. Fingers were always pointed at Arafat, for example, as someone who just wasn't trying very hard. But don't the recent actions just demonstrate the above point - namely, that there really is no solid consensus with the Palestinians ?

    This is an excellent post. Keep in mind, however, it also applies to those who defend the Palestinians as if they were a "single voice".
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Anyone ever heard of an age old tactic called 'divide aand conquer'?

    How it works is you reward those who are loyal to you, or who agree to act in your interests, whilst punishing those who aren't. Simple.
  • miller8966
    miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Anyone ever heard of an age old tactic called 'divide aand conquer'?

    How it works is you reward those who are loyal to you, or who agree to act in your interests, whilst punishing those who aren't. Simple.

    how can israel deal with people who's view of democracy is to shoot each other in the streets.
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • Truthmonger
    Truthmonger Posts: 559
    farfromglorified wrote:
    This is an excellent post. Keep in mind, however, it also applies to those who defend the Palestinians as if they were a "single voice".

    Well, I think there's a distinction to be made when thinking of Palestinians as one. Politcally/militarily, you're quite right, there are serious schisms. On the other hand, I think its relatively easy to consider them a group when it comes to things like current living conditions, human rights, and other social/cultural issues.

    So, the dissonance is how to get to a better place, but not with who/where they are as a people.
  • Truthmonger
    Truthmonger Posts: 559
    miller8966 wrote:
    how can israel deal with people who's view of democracy is to shoot each other in the streets.

    Are you familiar with the concept behind "Jar of Flies" ?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Truthmonger wrote:
    Well, I think there's a distinction to be made when thinking of Palestinians as one. Politcally/militarily, you're quite right, there are serious schisms. On the other hand, I think its relatively easy to consider them a group when it comes to things like current living conditions, human rights, and other social/cultural issues.

    It's "relatively easy" to group Israelis and Palestinians together on those same issues.
    So, the dissonance is how to get to a better place, but not with who/where they are as a people.

    Fair enough. I just think you might be trying to have your cake and eat it too here. What's happening right now in Palestine is absolutely ridiculous, just as it's absolutely ridiculous when the Israelis are the ones holding the guns.

    No one involved in this kind of fighting should ever be taken seriously again in the context of peace.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    miller8966 wrote:
    how can israel deal with people who's view of democracy is to shoot each other in the streets.

    Both of your questions so far on this thread are pathetic.

    Here's a question for you:

    How can the world deal with a terrorist state which is supported unconditionally by the most powerful country in the world?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Byrnzie wrote:
    How can the world deal with a terrorist state which is supported unconditionally by the most powerful country in the world?

    Please tell me you made this post in an ironic attempt to demonstrate the other "pathetic" extreme?
  • Truthmonger
    Truthmonger Posts: 559
    farfromglorified wrote:
    It's "relatively easy" to group Israelis and Palestinians together on those same issues.

    I'd like to know how the Israeli's and Palestinians could be "together" on social/cultural matters when the raison d'etre of the Israeli state is to create a Jewish homeland and make the interests of Israeli's and Palestinians mutually exclusive ?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Please tell me you made this post in an ironic attempt to demonstrate the other "pathetic" extreme?

    Sorry to disapoint you but a country which is in breach of over 60 U.N resolutions and which continues to illegally occupy another country's land is by any estimation a terrorist state.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Truthmonger wrote:
    I'd like to know how the Israeli's and Palestinians could be "together" on social/cultural matters when the raison d'etre of the Israeli state is to create a Jewish homeland and make the interests of Israeli's and Palestinians mutually exclusive ?

    Ummm...the raison d'etre of many Palestinians is also to establish a Palestinian state on current Jewish homeland and make the insterests of Palestinians and Israeli's mutually exclusive.

    You made a wonderful post above alluding to the fact that grouping millions of people together by pretending they all have similar motives, emotions, and thoughts is a mistake. Unfortunately, you just blew it by doing the same above.

    Most Israeli's, like most Palestinians, simply want to live lives free of violence. They want to persue their own individual interests without fearing the gun or the bomb. They each want a nation that defends their basic rights to pursue those interests. Anyone who stands in the way of that and resorts to violence to enforce their own will on their neighbors (be they Arab or Jew), is a criminal.
  • NCfan
    NCfan Posts: 945
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Sorry to disapoint you but a country which is in breach of over 60 U.N resolutions and which continues to illegally occupy another country's land is by any estimation a terrorist state.

    Give me a break... the borders of every single country in the world are a result of conflict and a resolution. There will always be an argument of who came first, but the past 50 years have proven that Isreal is permanent and isn't going anywhere.

    The arabs have attempted four wars against them and lost all of them miserably. This is all about lost pride hurt egos. 350 million arabs can't understand why they can't defeat 7 million Jews, and it eats at them and forms the basis of all the hatred going on over there. Whenever they decide to get over it, then we can move forward...
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Sorry to disapoint you but a country which is in breach of over 60 U.N resolutions and which continues to illegally occupy another country's land is by any estimation a terrorist state.

    I'm not disappointed. I'm amused at you calling a mirror "pathetic" and "racist".
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    farfromglorified wrote:
    I'm not disappointed. I'm amused at you calling a mirror "pathetic" and "racist".

    Please elaborate, if you're capable.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    NCfan wrote:
    This is all about lost pride hurt egos. 350 million arabs can't understand why they can't defeat 7 million Jews, and it eats at them and forms the basis of all the hatred going on over there. Whenever they decide to get over it, then we can move forward...

    Wow! How insightful! Did you get that ground-breaking information from a Christmas cracker?
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Please elaborate, if you're capable.

    Your position is simply the other ridiculous extreme to the argument you are rejecting above. The thread starter, in your opinion is "racist" and "pathetic", yet you seem to hold the same opinions wherein the only difference is the population you aim them at. So basically, you're looking in a mirror (where everything is equal, just backwards) and your words apply to you in the same manner they do to your reflection.

    You may fixate on one side's aggression and crimes all you'd like. But if you're going to ignore the same behavior or the other side, don't expect people to take your position very seriously.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Your position is simply the other ridiculous extreme to the argument you are rejecting above. The thread starter, in your opinion is "racist" and "pathetic", yet you seem to hold the same opinions wherein the only difference is the population you aim them at. So basically, you're looking in a mirror (where everything is equal, just backwards) and your words apply to you in the same manner they do to your reflection.

    You may fixate on one side's aggression and crimes all you'd like. But if you're going to ignore the same behavior or the other side, don't expect people to take your position very seriously.

    This argument holds no water. Are you suggesting that criticising Israel's crimes amounts to racism?

    The thread began:
    miller8966 wrote:
    How can Israel deal with the Palestinians? When obviously they cant keep it together.

    This post includes no explanation or analysis of the situation, whereas I mentioned Israels ongoing breaches of international law and it's subjecting the Palestinians to terror on a daily basis.
    I will continue to focus on one sides aggression and crimes, just as Jewish partisans, or the French resistance were not asked to justify their actions in the face of an overwhelmingly superior invading army.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Byrnzie wrote:
    This argument holds no water. Are you suggesting that criticising Israel's crimes amounts to racism?

    Not by default. But neither does criticizing the crimes of the Palestinians.
    This post includes no explanation or analysis of the situation,

    Neither did your original post.
    whereas I mentioned Israels ongoing breaches of international law and it's subjecting the Palestinians to terror on a daily basis.

    And you made no mention of the reverse -- Palestinian terrorism.
    I will continue to focus on one sides aggression and crimes, just as Jewish partisans, or the French resistance were not asked to justify their actions in the face of an overwhelmingly superior invading army.

    You may focus on whatever you'd like. Just don't be surprised when you end up missing half the picture.

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