The Chocolate War

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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    redrock wrote:
    If you buy goods owned by a company, your money is part of their profits, therefore you support the company... buy a toblerone bar, profits end up with Philips Morris - tobacco company...

    Most of the revenue goes back into Tobleron though and it's imployees. A tiny fraction goes to Philips Morris. But I still don't see how this is causing more people to smoke.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    catefrances wrote:
    who said it caused more people to smoke? where have i ever said that?
    all i said was if you buy certain products you should be aware that they are owned by tobacco companies.


    nabisco
    tang
    maxwell house
    planters
    oscar meyer
    jacobs
    jell-o

    i also said it was a personal choice ryan. a PERSONAL choice.

    But why does it matter to you?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Most of the revenue goes back into Tobleron though and it's imployees. A tiny fraction goes to Philips Morris. But I still don't see how this is causing more people to smoke.

    LISTEN RYAN. NO ONE SAID IT DID CAUSE MORE PEOPLE TO SMOKE. what is wrong with you tonight? you're a smart man. surely you can see that's not what we're saying.

    Ahnimus wrote:
    But why does it matter to you?

    it matters to me only because i do not want to support the tobacco industry. so i choose not to by not smoking and by not buying products that are owned by tobacco companies. it's so simple. even my 7 year old understands it. why can't you?
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    catefrances wrote:
    all i said was if you buy certain products you should be aware that they are owned by tobacco companies.


    nabisco
    tang
    maxwell house
    planters
    oscar meyer
    jacobs
    jell-o

    i also said it was a personal choice........a PERSONAL choice.


    In this world, as we busily rush around, trying to keep up with the sheer magnitude of information and happenings flying our way, there are many times few things we can do to register our support or protest or register our distain for practices. Attempting to purchase ethically is a way that many of us can do this. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    catefrances wrote:
    it matters to me only because i do not want to support the tobacco industry. so i choose not to by not smoking and by not buying products that are owned by tobacco companies. it's so simple. even my 7 year old understands it. why can't you?

    But why don't you want to buy products owned by tobacco companies?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Most of the revenue goes back into Tobleron though and it's imployees. A tiny fraction goes to Philips Morris. But I still don't see how this is causing more people to smoke.
    But Toblerone IS Philip Morris.... no one said it was causing more people to smoke.. It is supporting an industry you are against with money.... Taking it to the extreme.. if no one bought ANY products from ANY Philip Morris owned company, the company would fold.. naturally this will never happen but, if witholding your money from these companies by not purchasing their products (whether cigarettes, toblerone, jello, miller beer, etc), you make your point - it is your way of protesting... Just the same way as one would buy fair trade products or boycott products from certain countries. You may not change the world on your own, but you have done your bit - done what you feel is right. What catefrances said.. it is a personal choice.
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Ahnimus wrote:
    But why don't you want to buy products owned by tobacco companies?

    i laid it out for you ryan. if you don't understand the idea of ethics then that is your problem. we all make choices in life and this is one of my mine.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    redrock wrote:
    But Toblerone IS Philip Morris.... no one said it was causing more people to smoke.. It is supporting an industry you are against with money.... Taking it to the extreme.. if no one bought ANY products from ANY Philip Morris owned company, the company would fold.. naturally this will never happen but, if witholding your money from these companies by not purchasing their products (whether cigarettes, toblerone, jello, miller beer, etc), you make your point - it is your way of protesting... Just the same way as one would buy fair trade products or boycott products from certain countries. You may not change the world on your own, but you have done your bit - done what you feel is right. What catefrances said.. it is a personal choice.


    Very nicely said. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    redrock wrote:
    But Toblerone IS Philip Morris.... no one said it was causing more people to smoke.. It is supporting an industry you are against with money.... Taking it to the extreme.. if no one bought ANY products from ANY Philip Morris owned company, the company would fold.. naturally this will never happen but, if witholding your money from these companies by not purchasing their products (whether cigarettes, toblerone, jello, miller beer, etc), you make your point - it is your way of protesting... Just the same way as one would buy fair trade products or boycott products from certain countries. You may not change the world on your own, but you have done your bit - done what you feel is right. What catefrances said.. it is a personal choice.

    No, Philip Morris' cigarettes turn a profit which goes to the shareholders, and Kraft makes a profit which goes to the shareholders. The money kraft makes doesn't go to the tobacco industry, if the tobacco company wasn't making a profit it would be closed down, as long as it is making a profit, whatever profit kraft makes doesn't matter. See the logic?

    The only reason the tobacco industry is in business is because people smoke. Buying kraft food or not isn't going to make a difference at all.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    catefrances wrote:
    i laid it out for you ryan. if you don't understand the idea of ethics then that is your problem. we all make choices in life and this is one of my mine.

    You didn't explain how it affects the tobacco industry.

    All your doing is cutting Krafts profits, causing them to lay people off and eventually shut down, depening on how successful you are. They will still make cigarettes though, and profit from it, as long as their are people smoking them.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Jeanie wrote:
    Very nicely said. :)
    Thanks jeanie.. now back to chocolate

    http://www.transfairusa.org/content/certification/licensees2.php#cocoa
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Ahnimus wrote:
    You didn't explain how it affects the tobacco industry.

    All your doing is cutting Krafts profits, causing them to lay people off and eventually shut down, depening on how successful you are. They will still make cigarettes though, and profit from it, as long as their are people smoking them.

    "Its Kraft Foods and Miller Beer units combined are worth more than $26 a share, some analysts say, arguing that the market has actually put a negative value on the cigarette business. Philip Morris' current market cap is $60 billion, and "the underlying value of Kraft alone is worth that,"

    http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_48/b3657010.htm

    "Philip Morris will still own 84 percent of Kraft's stock and control more than 97 percent of its voting rights."


    Of course, we need to mention now that their name is Altria - just to confuse consumers a bit more!
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Ahnimus wrote:
    No, Philip Morris' cigarettes turn a profit which goes to the shareholders, and Kraft makes a profit which goes to the shareholders. The money kraft makes doesn't go to the tobacco industry, if the tobacco company wasn't making a profit it would be closed down, as long as it is making a profit, whatever profit kraft makes doesn't matter. See the logic?

    The only reason the tobacco industry is in business is because people smoke. Buying kraft food or not isn't going to make a difference at all.


    so philip morris has NO stake whatsoever in kraft foods? is that what you're telling me ryan? that their ownership of kraft is what exactly? for what reason would they acquire these food companies? for fun? surely even to my ears, buying a company would mean one expects to aquire some sort of profit from said company? other wise why bother?
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    redrock wrote:
    "Its Kraft Foods and Miller Beer units combined are worth more than $26 a share, some analysts say, arguing that the market has actually put a negative value on the cigarette business. Philip Morris' current market cap is $60 billion, and "the underlying value of Kraft alone is worth that,"

    http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_48/b3657010.htm

    And that means that the tobacco industry isn't looking so good to PM now because they are making so much from Kraft and Miller.

    The real dent in the tobacco market, according to that article, is in the form of law suits and less people smoking due to higher prices. Which is what I said earlier. Causing investors to purchase other stocks because of the risks in tobacco.

    So, I don't see what you are saying. It's almost as if, if they sold the tobacco company and just stuck with food, you'd still hate them for previously selling tobacco. I don't think any of that makes any sense.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    redrock wrote:
    Thanks jeanie.. now back to chocolate

    http://www.transfairusa.org/content/certification/licensees2.php#cocoa


    Oooh!!! That's awesome!! So organized. :)

    I confess to not knowing too much about Fair Trade here, in Oz, but you have inspired me rr. I'm going to take a google search see what I can find out. :)
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    catefrances wrote:
    so philip morris has NO stake whatsoever in kraft foods? is that what you're telling me ryan? that their ownership of kraft is what exactly? for what reason would they acquire these food companies? for fun? surely even to my ears, buying a company would mean one expects to aquire some sort of profit from said company? other wise why bother?

    Yes, they buy kraft to make more money, for stock market stability and increased bottom line for the shareholders. But none of that money goes into the tobacco industry.

    Using your same question, why would kraft need to fund the tobacco company, if the tobacco company is not turning profits, it would be shut down. Therefor the tobacco company makes profits and doesn't need funding from Kraft. It's autonomous, the conglomeration is just for the sake of shareholders.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Ahnimus wrote:
    And that means that the tobacco industry isn't looking so good to PM now because they are making so much from Kraft and Miller.

    The real dent in the tobacco market, according to that article, is in the form of law suits and less people smoking due to higher prices. Which is what I said earlier. Causing investors to purchase other stocks because of the risks in tobacco.

    So, I don't see what you are saying. It's almost as if, if they sold the tobacco company and just stuck with food, you'd still hate them for previously selling tobacco. I don't think any of that makes any sense.

    absloutely not ryan. i wouldn't hate them. but neither would i support them until tobacco ceased to be a health isssue.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Ahnimus wrote:
    So, I don't see what you are saying. It's almost as if, if they sold the tobacco company and just stuck with food, you'd still hate them for previously selling tobacco. I don't think any of that makes any sense.
    Nope.. if they were no longer in the tobacco industry and other related industries, there would be no reason for the boycott. Everyone can change! :D
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Yes, they buy kraft to make more money, for stock market stability and increased bottom line for the shareholders. But none of that money goes into the tobacco industry.

    Using your same question, why would kraft need to fund the tobacco company, if the tobacco company is not turning profits, it would be shut down. Therefor the tobacco company makes profits and doesn't need funding from Kraft. It's autonomous, the conglomeration is just for the sake of shareholders.


    who said kraft was funding the tobacco company? they are adding profits. which i guess you could class as funding. all i said was philip morris were diversifying. and that i can not support any companies owned by a tobacco company.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    redrock wrote:
    Nope.. if they were no longer in the tobacco industry and other related industries, there would be no reason for the boycott. Everyone can change! :D

    I still haven't heard a reason for the boycott. All it's doing is hurting Kraft.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire

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