The Chocolate War

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  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Ahnimus wrote:
    You just reiterated my point. Philip Morris makes enough from tobacco profits to buy out Kraft and Miller. Then they don't need the profits from Kraft and Miller to continue selling tobacco. So boycotting kraft won't affect the tobacco industry at all.

    Look, I realize you get some kind of feel-good high out of believing you can hurt the tobacco industry by boycotting Kraft, but it's illusory, it doesn't affect the tobacco industry at all.


    then imagine the feel good high i get out of not supporting westinghouse or general electric.
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  • prismprism Posts: 2,440
    Ahnimus wrote:
    It will add to the conglomerations profits, but not to the tobacco profits or tobacco marketting or anything to do with tobacco.

    Here is another way of thinking about it. Suppose you are successful and there is no longer a such thing as Philip Morris tobacco, Kraft Dinner or Miller Beer. What do you think will happen to the customer base? The smokers will smoke Marlboro or something, the Kraft fans will be disapointed but probably buy noname mac and cheese and the Miller fans will drink Bud or something. All that would change is that those three brand names will be dead. The customers will still smoke, drink and eat.


    I guess that people will have to start smoking 'or something' since Phillip Morris owns Marlboro as well
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  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    no. but that's not my motivation. I will not support tobacco companies.
    exactly which part of PERSONAL choice don't you get ryan?

    No I get the personal choice part of it. But I think that's just a diversive defense against your determination to boycott Kraft.

    Why do you hate tobacco companies? Because they sell harmful substances? If boycotting Kraft isn't going to stop people from smoking, then how is it going to stop Philip Morris from selling tobacco? If it doesn't affect the tobacco industry at all, then I fail to see the point.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    Ahnimus wrote:
    You just reiterated my point. Philip Morris makes enough from tobacco profits to buy out Kraft and Miller. Then they don't need the profits from Kraft and Miller to continue selling tobacco. So boycotting kraft won't affect the tobacco industry at all.

    Look, I realize you get some kind of feel-good high out of believing you can hurt the tobacco industry by boycotting Kraft, but it's illusory, it doesn't affect the tobacco industry at all.

    They do need other brands.. their profits from tobacco sales are slumping....
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    prism wrote:
    I guess that people will have to start smoking 'or something' since Phillip Morris owns Marlboro as well

    There are a lot of tobacco companies. Ultimately people will just grow it in their yards if they have to.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Ahnimus wrote:
    No I get the personal choice part of it. But I think that's just a diversive defense against your determination to boycott Kraft.

    Why do you hate tobacco companies? Because they sell harmful substances? If boycotting Kraft isn't going to stop people from smoking, then how is it going to stop Philip Morris from selling tobacco? If it doesn't affect the tobacco industry at all, then I fail to see the point.

    hmm why do i hate tobacco companies? let me think now? maybe cause they sell a product that kills people?

    i am sure there is a lot of things you fail to see the point of ryan.
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  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    redrock wrote:
    They do need other brands.. their profits from tobacco sales are slumping....

    Right, but in the end is it going to stop people from smoking? No. Then what's the point?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    hmm why do i hate tobacco companies? let me think now? maybe cause they sell a product that kills people?

    i am sure there is a lot of things you fail to see the point of ryan.

    I believe I answered that question for you. As I figured that was why you hated the tobacco copanies, but you didn't answer the last question, what difference does it make?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Ahnimus wrote:
    No I get the personal choice part of it. But I think that's just a diversive defense against your determination to boycott Kraft.

    Why do you hate tobacco companies? Because they sell harmful substances? If boycotting Kraft isn't going to stop people from smoking, then how is it going to stop Philip Morris from selling tobacco? If it doesn't affect the tobacco industry at all, then I fail to see the point.

    okay ryan. why would i feel a need to boycott kraft if they were not owned by a tobacco company. what would my motivation be then? do you think there is something more to my boycott of kraft. or isn't the fact that kraft is owned by an unethical industry enough?
    hear my name
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  • prismprism Posts: 2,440
    Ahnimus wrote:
    There are a lot of tobacco companies. Ultimately people will just grow it in their yards if they have to.


    nah....their yards are already covered with pot plants
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  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    okay ryan. why would i feel a need to boycott kraft if they were not owned by a tobacco company. what would my motivation be then? do you think there is something more to my boycott of kraft. or isn't the fact that kraft is owned by an unethical industry enough?

    It's not going to make a lickin' difference though.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I believe I answered that question for you. As I figured that was why you hated the tobacco copanies, but you didn't answer the last question, what difference does it make?

    it makes a difference to me ryan. i can not in all good conscience support the tobacco industry. so i don't. i feel it isn't enough for me not to smoke irrespective of the damage to my health that would cause. let me repeat, it makes a difference to me. i am also trying to teach my children some ethics. i'm trying to teach them that it is not okay for corporations to make a profit at any cost.
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  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Right, but in the end is it going to stop people from smoking? No. Then what's the point?
    I already explained what the point was in a previous post...
    redrock wrote:
    .... It is supporting an industry you are against with money....
    ...if witholding your money from these companies by not purchasing their products (whether cigarettes, toblerone, jello, miller beer, etc), you make your point - it is your way of protesting... Just the same way as one would buy fair trade products or boycott products from certain countries. You may not change the world on your own, but you have done your bit - done what you feel is right. What catefrances said.. it is a personal choice.

    Some large companies are starting to listen to their consumers on lots of environmental, fair trade issues.. Governments have listened to people ref smoking in public places, etc. We make our voices heard in the ways we know....

    The point is... we care enough to make a statement, however we chose to make that statement....

    And A. It's not only the tobacco industry.. it can be companies are test products on animals, it can be companies that have dealings with genetic engineering in goods supposedly fit for human consumption... it is far reaching.. If you don't care, that's fine.. but why don't you just read the first page of this site.. it might give you some insight as to why we do things like this... http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/aboutec/whybuyethically.htm And yes.. actions such as catefrances, etc. do work... http://www.ethicalconsumer.org/boycotts/successfulboycotts.htm I know that this is a site re a magazine but it is the first one that came up and I don't really have the time to search more because I believe you're doing this on purpose.

    Well one more thing.. because you like wiki and quote them so often.. http://www.tiptheplanet.com/index.php?title=Buy_ethical_products
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    it makes a difference to me ryan. i can not in all good conscience support the tobacco industry. so i don't. i feel it isn't enough for me not to smoke irrespective of the damage to my health that would cause. let me repeat, it makes a difference to me. i am also trying to teach my children some ethics. i'm trying to teach them that it is not okay for corporations to make a profit at any cost.

    Even if you buy Kraft products you aren't supporting the tobacco industry. Smokers support the tobacco industry.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    redrock wrote:
    I already explained what the point was in a previous post...

    Some large companies are starting to listen to their consumers on lots of environmental, fair trade issues.. Governments have listened to people ref smoking in public places, etc. We make our voices heard in the ways we know....

    The point is... we care enough to make a statement, however we chose to make that statement....

    It's not supporting the tobacco industry. It won't make a difference. All you can do is choose not to smoke.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Even if you buy Kraft products you aren't supporting the tobacco industry. Smokers support the tobacco industry.

    and they will die doing it.
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  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    and they will die doing it.

    Right, but there is nothing you can do about that by boycotting Kraft.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Right, but there is nothing you can do about that by boycotting Kraft.

    who said i wanted to stop fools from smoking?
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  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    who said i wanted to stop fools from smoking?

    Hey, if you don't like Kraft products, that's fine, I'm not a big fan of them myself. I don't buy Kraft products because I like cheaper stuff.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    Ahnimus wrote:
    It's not supporting the tobacco industry. It won't make a difference. All you can do is choose not to smoke.
    Wrong..
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    redrock wrote:
    Wrong..

    Haha, man, use some kind of logical argument or something. You can't just say "Wrong.." well, you can but it shows what you actually have to say about it.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Hey, if you don't like Kraft products, that's fine, I'm not a big fan of them myself. I don't buy Kraft products because I like cheaper stuff.

    oh ryan ryan ryan. why do you dance in circles?
    i like kraft products just fine. i miss vegemite and toblerone. there are also some nabisco products i miss too. but i have found alternatives. my beef is not with kraft products. it's with the parent company. i choose not to smoke and i choose to boycott products made by companies owned by parent tobacco companies. simple.
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  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Haha, man, use some kind of logical argument or something. You can't just say "Wrong.." well, you can but it shows what you actually have to say about it.
    All the arguments are in previous posts.. you choose to read the words without understanding the meaning of them put together in a sentence.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    oh ryan ryan ryan. why do you dance in circles?
    i like kraft products just fine. i miss vegemite and toblerone. there are also some nabisco products i miss too. but i have found alternatives. my beef is not with kraft products. it's with the parent company. i choose not to smoke and i choose to boycott products made by companies owned by parent tobacco companies. simple.

    Why?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    redrock wrote:
    All the arguments are in previous posts.. you choose to read the words without understanding the meaning of them put together in a sentence.

    No I get it, but it doesn't make any difference, right?

    I mean, no one has explained what difference it actually makes to the tobacco industry. It doesn't stop people from smoking. Does it?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    Ahnimus wrote:
    No I get it, but it doesn't make any difference, right?

    I mean, no one has explained what difference it actually makes to the tobacco industry. It doesn't stop people from smoking. Does it?
    If you would have read and understood the posts, you would know the answer and furthermore, no one suggested that it would stop people from smoking.. so yes.. you are going in circles just to annoy us, it would seem.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    redrock wrote:
    If you would have read and understood the posts, you would know the answer and furthermore, no one suggested that it would stop people from smoking.. so yes.. you are going in circles just to annoy us, it would seem.

    Just saying it's a fruitless venture. Besides the self-gratification given to one's self by the illusory belief that your impacting the tobacco industry in some way.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Ahnimus wrote:
    No I get it, but it doesn't make any difference, right?

    I mean, no one has explained what difference it actually makes to the tobacco industry. It doesn't stop people from smoking. Does it?

    no you don't get it ryan. you are choosing to ignore what we tell you for whatever agenda you're hoping to fill.
    no one has ever said our boycott will stop people smoking. we have no control over what other people do. that is their choice, this is our choice.
    much the same way being a pacifist shows my opposition to war. though i know it will make no difference in the scheme of things. to me and to my children it shows what my ethics are. i am not going to raise my children bereft of a moral compass cause people like you think that it won't make an iota of difference. you are not who i make decisions about my life for.
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  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Just saying it's a fruitless venture. Besides the self-gratification given to one's self by the illusory belief that your impacting the tobacco industry in some way.

    It's not.. numerous 'grass roots' campaigns have succeeded.. if you're happy the way things are and you do not wish to voice anything, as I said, that is fine.. Good thing not everyone is like you.
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Just saying it's a fruitless venture. Besides the self-gratification given to one's self by the illusory belief that your impacting the tobacco industry in some way.

    Double post
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