Just saying it's a fruitless venture. Besides the self-gratification given to one's self by the illusory belief that your impacting the tobacco industry in some way.
no you don't get it ryan. you are choosing to ignore what we tell you for whatever agenda you're hoping to fill.
no one has ever said our boycott will stop people smoking. we have no control over what other people do. that is their choice, this is our choice.
much the same way being a pacifist shows my opposition to war. though i know it will make no difference in the scheme of things. to me and to my children it shows what my ethics are. i am not going to raise my children bereft of a moral compass cause people like you think that it won't make an iota of difference. you are not who i make decisions about my life for.
So, some kind of morality. Like if it is self-gratifying to hold yourself to some kind of moral standard fine. Don't see why that is such a big thing though. I personally don't share your view of ethics and morality.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
So, some kind of morality. Like if it is self-gratifying to hold yourself to some kind of moral standard fine. Don't see why that is such a big thing though. I personally don't share your view of ethics and morality.
and thank goodness for that ryan.
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It's not.. numerous 'grass roots' campaigns have succeeded.. if you're happy the way things are and you do not wish to voice anything, as I said, that is fine.. Good thing not everyone is like you.
If you knock down all but one tobacco giant, then you have an even greater concentration of wealth a tobacco super-giant that probably owns half the brands in the super-market too. You still have just as many smokers, just a greater concentration of wealth and probably less available jobs. So I don't see how thinking like you is exactly better. But I'll definitely take that as an insult.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
If you knock down all but one tobacco giant, then you have an even greater concentration of wealth a tobacco super-giant that probably owns half the brands in the super-market too. You still have just as many smokers, just a greater concentration of wealth and probably less available jobs. So I don't see how thinking like you is exactly better. But I'll definitely take that as an insult.
not better ryan, just different. if you take someone having different morals than you offensive, then so be it. i shall have no trouble whatsoever sleeping tonight with that knowledge.
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... implying that what one does to purchase more ethically is fruitless.. ie waste of time. I'm saying that good thing there are consumers who care about HOW they buy and that they CAN make an impact. If not due to pressure, why would Philip Morris (since we are talking about them) be so determined to attempt redifining their image? Lots of companies have bowed under consumer pressure. If you want to take it as an insult, that is fine with me too.
Now I don't think I have anymore to say about this, unless we start talking chocolate again.
not better ryan, just different. if you take someone having different morals than you offensive, then so be it. i shall have no trouble whatsoever sleeping tonight with that knowledge.
No, I don't find someone with different morals offensive, but what he said, basically implying that I am immoral with "Good thing not everyone is like you." is offensive.
Holy shit cate, and you accuse me of not reading, maybe you should take your own advice. So far, I've been successful not letting discussing this bother me, even though you both seem to be ignoring my points and arguing for something that doesn't seem to warrant an actual discussion. I'm not sure what your motivation is either.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
... implying that what one does to purchase more ethically is fruitless.. ie waste of time. I'm saying that good thing there are consumers who care about HOW they buy and that they CAN make an impact. If not due to pressure, why would Philip Morris (since we are talking about them) be so determined to attempt redifining their image? Lots of companies have bowed under consumer pressure. If you want to take it as an insult, that is fine with me too.
Now I don't think I have anymore to say about this, unless we start talking chocolate again.
But even if Philip Morris redefines their image, what does that mean for the tobacco industry? You can't buy PM smokes anymore, but there are more Camel smokes on the shelf at the store? Then you can buy Kraft products again, I don't get it.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
No, I don't find someone with different morals offensive, but what he said, basically implying that I am immoral with "Good thing not everyone is like you." is offensive.
Holy shit cate, and you accuse me of not reading, maybe you should take your own advice. So far, I've been successful not letting discussing this bother me, even though you both seem to be ignoring my points and arguing for something that doesn't seem to warrant an actual discussion. I'm not sure what your motivation is either.
i can only speak for myself ryan. i was not ignoring your points. you kept bringing up how our stance would stop people smoking. both red rock and i continually told you that was not our primary concern. we both kknow nothing i or redrock does will stop people smoking. that is their decision to make. my boycott is my decision to make. it's not up to you to tell me it is a lost cause simply because you don't understand the logic involved. i made this decision knowing that i was about to give up products i have eaten my entire life. knowing that when i shopped i would actually have to think about my purchases. i told you i could not in all good conscience buy products from a company that was owned by a tobacco company. and still you asked me how my stand would stop people smoking. that was never my intent. i am charged with raising my chidren in this shitty world the best way i know how. i can not live my life by allowing things to just pass me by. i do what i can do to make a difference in my and my children's lives. i have to show them that there are some things that need to be said and how as an individual i can say them. what i was arguing was your inability to take my stand at face value. you even ended up twisting it around into a 'i hate kraft' thing. which it never was.
what i got from your posts was you couldn't see how the boycotting of any company owned by a tobacco company would stop people smoking. a point that was never in contention.
i made a moral stand. one that brings no ill to any individual. what moral stands you choose are your own to choose.
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So anyway, it would seem that many of us would prefer to buy REAL chocolate that has no sinister social or political implications coming with our purchase. And that's before we even get to GM foods. :eek:
So anyway, it would seem that many of us would prefer to buy REAL chocolate that has no sinister social or political implications coming with our purchase. And that's before we even get to GM foods. :eek:
i can only speak for myself ryan. i was not ignoring your points. you kept bringing up how our stance would stop people smoking. both red rock and i continually told you that was not our primary concern. we both kknow nothing i or redrock does will stop people smoking. that is their decision to make. my boycott is my decision to make. it's not up to you to tell me it is a lost cause simply because you don't understand the logic involved. i made this decision knowing that i was about to give up products i have eaten my entire life. knowing that when i shopped i would actually have to think about my purchases. i told you i could not in all good conscience buy products from a company that was owned by a tobacco company. and still you asked me how my stand would stop people smoking. that was never my intent. i am charged with raising my chidren in this shitty world the best way i know how. i can not live my life by allowing things to just pass me by. i do what i can do to make a difference in my and my children's lives. i have to show them that there are some things that need to be said and how as an individual i can say them. what i was arguing was your inability to take my stand at face value. you even ended up twisting it around into a 'i hate kraft' thing. which it never was.
what i got from your posts was you couldn't see how the boycotting of any company owned by a tobacco company would stop people smoking. a point that was never in contention.
i made a moral stand. one that brings no ill to any individual. what moral stands you choose are your own to choose.
No I never understood any logic for doing it, but you seemed to be preaching it as if it was "the moral" thing to do. I still don't see any logic in it. But hey, we'll leave it at that.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
No I never understood any logic for doing it, but you seemed to be preaching it as if it was "the moral" thing to do. I still don't see any logic in it. But hey, we'll leave it at that.
no ryan. only for me is it the moral thing to do. morality is not an innate quality. therefore our collective morality is formed by society. i have chosen to step outside the accepted norms and form my own opinion. and mould my morality for my goodness and that of my children. and i do it without causing ill to others. i was not preaching but sharing my stand and why i chose it. then it turned into a defense against your misunderstanding.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
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i just need to say
no ryan. only for me is it the moral thing to do. morality is not an innate quality. therefore our collective morality is formed by society. i have chosen to step outside the accepted norms and form my own opinion. and mould my morality for my goodness and that of my children. and i do it without causing ill to others. i was not preaching but sharing my stand and why i chose it. then it turned into a defense against your misunderstanding.
lol, if you perceived it as an attack. That's not what I intended. I was challenging your logic cause it didn't make any sense to me. But I guess I understood all along, I just thought there was more to it.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
this pisses me right the fuck off. are they in danger of going out of business? no. do they still make a profit? yes. so why do they want to do this? becos $2billion isn't enough and they need another million or two. heaven forbid those fuckers have to live within their means. pouring wax into chocolate? this is fucking ridiculous.
this pisses me right the fuck off. are they in danger of going out of business? no. do they still make a profit? yes. so why do they want to do this? becos $2billion isn't enough and they need another million or two. heaven forbid those fuckers have to live within their means. pouring wax into chocolate? this is fucking ridiculous.
But apparently no one will know the difference!!!!!!
lol, if you perceived it as an attack. That's not what I intended. I was challenging your logic cause it didn't make any sense to me. But I guess I understood all along, I just thought there was more to it.
sometimes things are just simple ryan.
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Actually, smoking kiills evryone sooner. An average of 15yrs actually. The last bloke I told that to was dead in 4 weeks.
Amazing that Ahnimus loves his science, but conveniently ignores it when it threatens his ciggie or dope habit.
You're a hypocrite, ahnimus !!!!!
I needed to bump this post up, cos it's obvious that ahnimus missed it, and I didn't want him to.
Mmm, I sure do love me some milk chocolate. I do think Hershey's is the best. I am not a snob, nor do I need to pay a lot more for it to enjoy it. Jeans, t-shirts, and a Hershey bar....that's the kind of guy I am.
Anyhow, I am very much against lowering the standards for what is chocolate in this country.
Comments
Triple post!
So, some kind of morality. Like if it is self-gratifying to hold yourself to some kind of moral standard fine. Don't see why that is such a big thing though. I personally don't share your view of ethics and morality.
and thank goodness for that ryan.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
If you knock down all but one tobacco giant, then you have an even greater concentration of wealth a tobacco super-giant that probably owns half the brands in the super-market too. You still have just as many smokers, just a greater concentration of wealth and probably less available jobs. So I don't see how thinking like you is exactly better. But I'll definitely take that as an insult.
not better ryan, just different. if you take someone having different morals than you offensive, then so be it. i shall have no trouble whatsoever sleeping tonight with that knowledge.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
You posted
... implying that what one does to purchase more ethically is fruitless.. ie waste of time. I'm saying that good thing there are consumers who care about HOW they buy and that they CAN make an impact. If not due to pressure, why would Philip Morris (since we are talking about them) be so determined to attempt redifining their image? Lots of companies have bowed under consumer pressure. If you want to take it as an insult, that is fine with me too.
Now I don't think I have anymore to say about this, unless we start talking chocolate again.
mmmm toblerone.
take a good look
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No, I don't find someone with different morals offensive, but what he said, basically implying that I am immoral with "Good thing not everyone is like you." is offensive.
Holy shit cate, and you accuse me of not reading, maybe you should take your own advice. So far, I've been successful not letting discussing this bother me, even though you both seem to be ignoring my points and arguing for something that doesn't seem to warrant an actual discussion. I'm not sure what your motivation is either.
But even if Philip Morris redefines their image, what does that mean for the tobacco industry? You can't buy PM smokes anymore, but there are more Camel smokes on the shelf at the store? Then you can buy Kraft products again, I don't get it.
cate, you might like to know that HEAVEN has a honey nougat chocolate that tastes surprisingly as good as Tobelerone but a little bit different.
If you haven't tried it, give it a go.
Of course, I'd hate to find out that it was also owned by some stinking, morally bankrupt multi national conglomerate. :rolleyes:
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
i can only speak for myself ryan. i was not ignoring your points. you kept bringing up how our stance would stop people smoking. both red rock and i continually told you that was not our primary concern. we both kknow nothing i or redrock does will stop people smoking. that is their decision to make. my boycott is my decision to make. it's not up to you to tell me it is a lost cause simply because you don't understand the logic involved. i made this decision knowing that i was about to give up products i have eaten my entire life. knowing that when i shopped i would actually have to think about my purchases. i told you i could not in all good conscience buy products from a company that was owned by a tobacco company. and still you asked me how my stand would stop people smoking. that was never my intent. i am charged with raising my chidren in this shitty world the best way i know how. i can not live my life by allowing things to just pass me by. i do what i can do to make a difference in my and my children's lives. i have to show them that there are some things that need to be said and how as an individual i can say them. what i was arguing was your inability to take my stand at face value. you even ended up twisting it around into a 'i hate kraft' thing. which it never was.
what i got from your posts was you couldn't see how the boycotting of any company owned by a tobacco company would stop people smoking. a point that was never in contention.
i made a moral stand. one that brings no ill to any individual. what moral stands you choose are your own to choose.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
dairy makes me logey.
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I'm gonna do me some research now.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
http://www.xocoatl.org/bars.htm#war maybe the US should have a chocolate war...
No I never understood any logic for doing it, but you seemed to be preaching it as if it was "the moral" thing to do. I still don't see any logic in it. But hey, we'll leave it at that.
no ryan. only for me is it the moral thing to do. morality is not an innate quality. therefore our collective morality is formed by society. i have chosen to step outside the accepted norms and form my own opinion. and mould my morality for my goodness and that of my children. and i do it without causing ill to others. i was not preaching but sharing my stand and why i chose it. then it turned into a defense against your misunderstanding.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
lol, if you perceived it as an attack. That's not what I intended. I was challenging your logic cause it didn't make any sense to me. But I guess I understood all along, I just thought there was more to it.
Bugger! :(
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I'm not doing so good on the research.
Ethical chocolate only gave me World Vision and Tava.
http://www.worldvision.com.au/wvconnect/content.asp?topicID=97
http://www.tava.com.au/
Not a huge supporter of World Vision. And it looks like Tava don't have any retail outlets.
A chocolate war sounds like an EXCELLENT idea!!!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Try googling fair trade chocolate... loads of them...
that is precisely what i do! ...
and its good for me!!
But apparently no one will know the difference!!!!!!
Flake,dairymilk,kinder bueno.
sometimes things are just simple ryan.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I needed to bump this post up, cos it's obvious that ahnimus missed it, and I didn't want him to.
Anyhow, I am very much against lowering the standards for what is chocolate in this country.