becos the women around here dont hate me enough already

Jeanie · March 2007

soulsinging wrote:

i wasnt obsessed with engagement rings, that was all the other pansy guys around here who seem as concerned with jewelry as a woman. i couldnt care less about engagement rings. in fact, i dont think i mentioned them until this post which was only a joking passing reference to them.

the survey doesnt say what the sample was. i didnt see any indication it was restricted to married or cohabiting couples in terms of its sample. its theories were only guesses to explain the results. but there's not enough about the sample to draw any conclusions about that. in any case, i dont know if lack of cohabiting would make any difference or not. going by their conclusions, i suppose it would. but if their sample was random, i dont think it would make a difference in terms of happiness, but it would means their hypothetical reasons for dissatisfaction are wrong.

but the whole values/costs of marriage vs. single life is a whole other debate. for the sake of this survey, i think the assumption is men and women have since the dawn of time liked to pair off and will continue to do so. whether or not that is a good thing is a whole other debate and one i think we would really butt heads on.

You do huh? How can you predict that?

catefrances · March 2007

soulsinging wrote:

i think a lot of people come on here to flirt with each other and garner attention.

look at me look at me look at me now!!!!!!!!!!

soulsinging · March 2007

Jeanie wrote:

You do huh? How can you predict that?

by the fact that you seem to think it's a worthless sucker's bet and sleeping around is a good thing

Trau · March 2007

Jeanie wrote:

thank you cate!!

Yeah, she really got me, didn't she!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Jeanie · March 2007

boxwine_in_hell wrote:

"stole it from us he did."

Jeanie · March 2007

soulsinging wrote:

by the fact that you seem to think it's a worthless sucker's bet and sleeping around is a good thing

I got no problem with people co-habiting. I just reckon it's a minefield to negotiate. And that's if you are living with a partner, kids, family members or flatmates. I've never managed to successfully cohabit with a male sexual partner in that I was but I'm not now. If the definition of success be longevity then I've failed I guess. If I am in a situation where I would want to live with a man again, and he with me, then I guess we'll both be negotiating a fair deal for both of us then. I would like to think that we could have a happy, healthy equal partnership. That will always be my aim.

And as to sleeping around ss, well sorry, but yeah, I do believe if you wanna get your rocks off go for it!! Just don't be lying, cheating and scheming about it. AND make sure you practice safe sex. That's my blanket take on the situation and covers both men and women. And if you want to abstain, or sleep with one person for the rest of your life that's cool too. imo. Whatever floats your boat. Sex is one of the few true pleasures left in this world. And as it's all about love I say bring it on!!

Jeanie · March 2007

Trau wrote:

Yeah, she really got me, didn't she!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Huh?? What's wrong Trau? Need some attention?

catefrances · March 2007

Jeanie wrote:

And as to sleeping around ss, well sorry, but yeah, I do believe if you wanna get your rocks off go for it!! Just don't be lying, cheating and scheming about it. AND make sure you practice safe sex. That's my blanket take on the situation and covers both men and women. And if you want to abstain, or sleep with one person for the rest of your life that's cool too. imo. Whatever floats your boat. Sex is one of the few true pleasures left in this world. And as it's all about love I say bring it on!!

sex isnt always about love jeanie. nor should it have to be.

Jeanie · March 2007

catefrances wrote:

sex isnt always about love jeanie. nor should it have to be.

sssshhh!!! I'm trying to be wholesome!!!

catefrances · March 2007

Jeanie wrote:

sssshhh!!! I'm trying to be wholesome!!!

sssssshhhh!!! i'm trying to be real.

Jeanie · March 2007

catefrances wrote:

sssssshhhh!!! i'm trying to be real.

hehe!! Oh you are VERY real girl!!

It's why I like you so much!!

baraka · March 2007

soulsinging wrote:

"women deal with the same thing."
"and most men still expect her to do the housework."

it's fun to only look for what you want in posts isnt it?

:rolleyes:

I was somewhat joking, but let's be honest, at least 10,000 of your 23,000 posts are about your angst concerning women. However, I do like your post here

soulsinging wrote:

m curious what stance you think i promote here. im not even sure i have one. nor do i see what relevance marriage rates would have on this survery. free love was a failed experiment and the conservatism we both dislike is simply a reaction to the excess of the free love movement. i dont doubt things are more equal now than they have been, nor that they will continue to be equal. but equal does not mean "the same." and all i posted this for was discussion about at what point does the pursuit of being the same hurt our happiness? equal opportunity and access is important to have as an option, but does it mean we should continue to choose options that make us unhappy just becos they are there? im not saying women should stay home and men should go to work, but i am saying women should not feel they have to work a job they dont want to prove they are independent, and men should not be prohibitied from staying home and raising kids becos they feel it is unmasculine. it should be about breaking down barriers to happiness and fulfillment, not replacing one form of expectations with another.

This is very good. I like the equal but not the same. Men and women both bring different assets to the table, Yin & Yang.

Ahnimus · March 2007

baraka wrote:

Men and women both bring different assets to the table, Yin & Yang.

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you here.

Men and women have some very obvious anatomical difference, such as male and female sex organs. But I don't believe that we are naturally any different. What is in our minds is mostly what we've been subjected to and the way we interpret it. Up until the 1960s there was some hard-lines between male and female behavior in western culture (not the world). However, since women's liberation we've seen an explosion of self-reflectant behavior, people tend to behave more how they feel. Many men behave similarily to women and many women behave similarily to men.

But most of our behaviour in general, wether you are a man, woman, hindu, buddhist or rastafarian is the result of behaviour modelling, as children we learn how to behave within our physical and social environments. As adults we tend to look at other cultures and say "I would never do that.", by this statement we are essentially admitting that we are, in most part, a product of our culture, we are often disgusted or amused by another culture's traditions. These feelings of disgust and amusement are a part of us, guided by our cultural norms.

Yin & Yang basically says things are not black or white, everything had an opposite, but within every black is some white, the more black you have the less white, but there will always be white in the black. It doesn't make much sense to me talking about the colours black and white. However, it could apply to Jungian Psychology, with Jung's theory of Anima and Animus, however I feel that requires gender roles to be secure. At this point in our culture it's always an insult to someone to say "Men/Women are like this.."

Anyway, I just want to abolish this ancient myth that we are behaviouraly different by nature. Oh, by the way, I saw a video on youtube you'll like, check it out, Cute Otters

hippiemom · March 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you here.

Men and women have some very obvious anatomical difference, such as male and female sex organs. But I don't believe that we are naturally any different. What is in our minds is mostly what we've been subjected to and the way we interpret it. Up until the 1960s there was some hard-lines between male and female behavior in western culture (not the world). However, since women's liberation we've seen an explosion of self-reflectant behavior, people tend to behave more how they feel. Many men behave similarily to women and many women behave similarily to men.

But most of our behaviour in general, wether you are a man, woman, hindu, buddhist or rastafarian is the result of behaviour modelling, as children we learn how to behave within our physical and social environments. As adults we tend to look at other cultures and say "I would never do that.", by this statement we are essentially admitting that we are, in most part, a product of our culture, we are often disgusted or amused by another culture's traditions. These feelings of disgust and amusement are a part of us, guided by our cultural norms.

Yin & Yang basically says things are not black or white, everything had an opposite, but within every black is some white, the more black you have the less white, but there will always be white in the black. It doesn't make much sense to me talking about the colours black and white. However, it could apply to Jungian Psychology, with Jung's theory of Anima and Animus, however I feel that requires gender roles to be secure. At this point in our culture it's always an insult to someone to say "Men/Women are like this.."

Anyway, I just want to abolish this ancient myth that we are behaviouraly different by nature. Oh, by the way, I saw a video on youtube you'll like, check it out, Cute Otters

You don't think that our biological differences create different behaviors? For example, women tend to be more relationship oriented ... you don't think that has anything to do with their role giving birth to and nourishing babies? It's to our advantage as a species that women be other-centered and intuitive as to the needs of others.

Ahnimus · March 2007

hippiemom wrote:

You don't think that our biological differences create different behaviors? For example, women tend to be more relationship oriented ... you don't think that has anything to do with their role giving birth to and nourishing babies? It's to our advantage as a species that women be other-centered and intuitive as to the needs of others.

I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I actually know that's not the case.

That's too say that a man who is sensitive, intuitive and caring has a biochemical imbalance? I don't think so. I actually think the biochemistry is somewhat affected by behavior.

Anyway, I believe I've linked Margaret Mead's ground-breaking research in gender roles a dozen or so times, but I'll link for you. Even within my own city I can see the major changes happening in gender roles and behavior. The ratio of men:women in this city, is apparently 1:4 and of those 25% men, some large portion are homosexual. A lot of men around here act "Fruity" or like women, even though they are not gay. Probably because of the large population of women and female influence.

wikipedia wrote:

When Margaret Mead described her research to her students at Columbia University, she put succinctly what her objectives and her conclusions were. A first-hand account by an anthropologist who studied with Mead in the 60s and 70s provides the following information:

1. Mead tells of Sex and Temperament in Three Primitive Societies. "She explained that nobody knew the degree to which temperament is biologically determined by sex. So she hoped to see whether there were cultural or social factors that affected temperament. Were men inevitably aggressive? Were women inevitably "homebodies"? It turned out that the three cultures she lived with in New Guinea were almost a perfect laboratory — for each had the variables that we associate with masculine and feminine in an arrangement different from ours. She said this surprised her, and wasn't what she was trying to find. It was just there.

• "Among the Arapesh, both men and women were peaceful in temperament and neither men nor women made war.
• "Among the Mundugumor, the opposite was true: both men and women were warlike in temperament.
• "And the Tchambuli were different from both. The men 'primped' and spent their time decorating themselves while the women worked and were the practical ones — the opposite of how it seemed in early 20th century America."

2. Mead tells of Growing Up in New Guinea. "Margaret Mead told us how she came to the research problem on which she based her Growing Up in New Guinea. She reasoned as follows: If primitive adults think in an animistic way, as Piaget says our children do, how do primitive children think?

• "In her research on Manus Island of New Guinea, she discovered that 'primitive' children think in a very practical way and begin to think in terms of spirits etc. as they get older.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Mead

hippiemom · March 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I actually know that's not the case.

That's too say that a man who is sensitive, intuitive and caring has a biochemical imbalance? I don't think so. I actually think the biochemistry is somewhat affected by behavior.

Anyway, I believe I've linked Margaret Mead's ground-breaking research in gender roles a dozen or so times, but I'll link for you. Even within my own city I can see the major changes happening in gender roles and behavior. The ratio of men:women in this city, is apparently 1:4 and of those 25% men, some large portion are homosexual. A lot of men around here act "Fruity" or like women, even though they are not gay. Probably because of the large population of women and female influence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Mead

No, of course I don't think he has an imbalance. I think we are evolving, and we're not all at the exact same place at the same time.

And of course I'm not discounting the cultural influences. I think they're huge and account for most differences, but not necessarily all.

angelica · March 2007

Our personality preferences are generally decided by the time we are around 3 years old. And that includes whether, like 70% of males we develop a preference for using logic for decision-making, or like 70% of women we rely more on emotional considerations for decision making. Our brain quadruples in size between birth and adulthood, as our preferences, genetic predispositions and behaviours become hardwired into us. It may not be that women are inherently necessarily prone towards certain roles/behaviours, but the variables involved do cause that it does show up in distinct, discernable differences in brain functioning. For example, women generally have, I believe, 5 or 6 times the connection between the left and right hemispheres of the brain than the average right handed male. Left-handed men have a similar degree of left/right brain connection as women, incidentally. These connectors might, as baraka and hippiemom seemed to allude somewhat to, better equip women to the multi-tasking necessary with emotion providing within the family and other swift-gear shifting necessary throughout the day, than required by traditional male roles that rely more on logic alone, which occurs in the left neo-cortex alone.

Abookamongstthemany · March 2007

Ahnimus wrote:

A lot of men around here act "Fruity" or like women, even though they are not gay.

I just used the term 'fruity' in another thread. I didn't mean it as acting like a woman or a gay person. I've always used it as meaning corny or overly silly. If it means what you say it does, I guess I've been misusing it.

Ahnimus · March 2007

angelica wrote:

Our personality preferences are generally decided by the time we are around 3 years old. And that includes whether, like 70% of males we develop a preference for using logic for decision-making, or like 70% of women we rely more on emotional considerations for decision making. Our brain quadruples in size between birth and adulthood, as our preferences, genetic predispositions and behaviours become hardwired into us. It may not be that women are inherently necessarily prone towards certain roles/behaviours, but the variables involved do cause that it does show up in distinct, discernable differences in brain functioning. For example, women generally have, I believe, 5 or 6 times the connection between the left and right hemispheres of the brain than the average right handed male. Left-handed men have a similar degree of left/right brain connection as women, incidentally. These connectors might, as baraka and hippiemom seemed to allude somewhat to, better equip women to the multi-tasking necessary with emotion providing within the family and other swift-gear shifting necessary throughout the day, than required by traditional male roles that rely more on logic alone, which occurs in the left neo-cortex alone.

Actually the increase in white matter occurs primarily in the Amygdala. Which is the emotiona centre, or gateway to the limbic system.

The point is that the adults in our culture essentially program the children, causing them to fit these models we've created. So long as we continue to say "Men/Women are like this..." they will be. By saying it we are hard-wiring it into our children, they then behave according to expectations, for the most part.

Then the question remains, is it bad or good to have these distinct gender roles? According to women's liberation, it's a bad thing. Then we abolish this perception that men/women are better suited for specific roles within the family. This means women are not better parents naturally and men are not better workers as studies have shown. The differences are only from individual to individual. Perhaps we should look at the mass of white and grey matter of the amygdala in both parents to determine who is 'better'. But I don't think that's the only determining factor in what makes a good parent.

Ahnimus · March 2007

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I just used the term 'fruity' in another thread. I didn't mean it as acting like a woman or a gay person. I've always used it as meaning corny or overly silly. If it means what you say it does, I guess I've been misusing it.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fruity

becos the women around here dont hate me enough already

Comments

Categories