Abortion

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  • Dog Loyal
    Dog Loyal Posts: 336
    Killswitch wrote:
    Death is not fun. (Unless its killing Sadam)
    Sadam was once a fetus.
    The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
  • momofglynn
    momofglynn Posts: 849
    Dog Loyal wrote:
    You know what? If I had the kind of horrendous defects my baby had, I would have WANTED my mother to end it. There is a huge difference between being alive and living.

    Furthermore, my SON was not a family secret by any stretch. Everyone in my family and most of my friends and acquaintances know what happened and supported our decision. My other children know him by name. We visit his grave. I have no shame, remorse or regret for acting mercifully on behalf of my child.


    True. My point is that whatever you feel you gained or learned by witnessing an infant's suffering, it doesn't justify that suffering or make it less horrible for the infant. That's all. Maybe your cousin's baby didn't suffer at all. I sure hope she didn't.

    I understand your point, I really do. I don't know if the infant suffered. She seemed happy, she smiled a couple of times, she was capable of nursing and she had fairly decent kidney function which is not normal for children with this condition.

    I think the parents, the extended family and their other children actually suffered more because they knew what the final outcome would be. Honestly, the baby may know a few things at birth but I doubt she knew she was going to die. I know my cousin choose to have her die at home and Laura died in her sleep.
    Let's Go Red Sox!
  • Kann
    Kann Posts: 1,146
    Killswitch wrote:
    To the rest of you who disagree with me... don't fear God, accept him.

    Many people have met God, and he sends people to hell for abortions.

    Why would you murder a child? Death is not fun. (Unless its killing Sadam)

    Yes but God gave us the right to choose so... If He was nice enough to let us leave our lives as we choose I fail to see why those who believe in Him don't.
    And no death is not fun, in any case.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Killswitch wrote:
    To the person who called me a dick - I only briefly looked over the forum rules, but isn't that against them? I believe you could get banned for that.

    I didn't call anyone names.

    To the rest of you who disagree with me... don't fear God, accept him.

    Many people have met God, and he sends people to hell for abortions.

    Why would you murder a child? Death is not fun. (Unless its killing Sadam)

    who gets to decide which people god says we're allowed to kill and which ones we aren't? cos im pretty sure osama bin laden thought he had to go ahead from god to kill a lot of americans. we have the go ahead to kill a lot of iraqis. certainly seems like god is fucking around if you ask me... he's worse than john kerry when it somes to flip flopping it would seem.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    catefrances wrote:
    hey no way. i meant killswitch of course.

    i would never call soulsinging a dick . :)

    perhaps you missed the sarcasm dripping out of all of our posts?
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    genie wrote:
    oh dear, you are offending me so much..... :(

    but let me tell you something about men, most men are sexist. and you are a great example ;)

    maybe if men haven't controlled women in the past, maybe women would've had more testosterone. because women would've had to do everything themsevles, like you know hunt, fight, provide for the family....
    but i didn't turn out this way, cause men where there.

    oh, i'm not going to pretend i can play sports, because i have never wanted to. but i know that if there is something i put my mind to i will be as good or even better than anyother guy.
    btw, you were talking about anykind of sport, correct?
    but if you were talking about boxing, than i will have to agree with you.
    cause in the end men (no matter how much i hate to say it) are biologically stronger than women :(

    i was just messing (though i still think the wnba is boring). men didnt control women in neanderthal days... that was simply a division of labor. women were more caring and better long term planners, thus they did foraging and handled "village" affairs. men had raw muscle... so they killed things and dragged it home. it was pretty equal. the subjugation of women came later... probly around the time women started to get so drunk on the fact that they did better abstract thinking that men got tired of being ordered around and used their muscle to turn things upside down. we've been there ever since.
  • Killswitch
    Killswitch Posts: 13
    soulsinging wrote:
    who gets to decide which people god says we're allowed to kill and which ones we aren't? cos im pretty sure osama bin laden thought he had to go ahead from god to kill a lot of americans. we have the go ahead to kill a lot of iraqis. certainly seems like god is fucking around if you ask me... he's worse than john kerry when it somes to flip flopping it would seem.

    bin laden is muslim though

    i'm talking about the real God
  • Dog Loyal
    Dog Loyal Posts: 336
    Killswitch wrote:
    bin laden is muslim though

    i'm talking about the real God
    Which one is that?
    The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Killswitch wrote:
    bin laden is muslim though

    i'm talking about the real God

    that's what he thought. he was wrong though wasn't he? you might be too. for that matter, im pretty sure ghandi thought he had it right too. as did david koresh. as did those hale bopp people. there are a LOT of people who claim to be talking to the real god. why should i take your word for it?

    the more dead babies the better, humans are over-populated.
  • Killswitch
    Killswitch Posts: 13
    read the bible, son
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Killswitch wrote:
    read the bible, son

    i have father. what's your point? and dont call me son, im probably older than you.
  • Dog Loyal
    Dog Loyal Posts: 336
    Killswitch wrote:
    read the bible, son
    You mean that absurd old book that says bats are birds?

    http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/pillows.html
    The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
  • Dog Loyal
    Dog Loyal Posts: 336
    soulsinging wrote:
    i have father. what's your point? and dont call me son, im probably older than you.
    Yeah, I'm probably old enough to have aborted Kill Switch. Or is it Kills Witch?
    The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
  • bee_boy
    bee_boy Posts: 384
    I'm 22, and personally don't have any experiences (within my family and as far as I know) with abortion. I'm a Roman Catholic, and yes, I'm Pro-Life.

    But let me clear something up first. Being a Catholic has nothing to do whatsoever with me being Pro-Life. My take on abortion is totally moral and ethical. In my case at least, God has nothing to do with it.

    Although I'm Pro-Life, I do see some circumstances where abortion is acceptable, and sometimes even necessary. For instance, if a woman is raped (be it a 16 or a 40 year-old), I can totally see why she wouldn't want to have that baby and therefore, I would consider this a case were abortion is acceptable. Another of those exceptional situations would be when the baby's or the mother's life is endangered (I think this is also seen as an acceptable situation for abortion by the Catholic Church. Just FYI). The last of these exceptional circumstances would be when the baby presents development problems that mean that when born, the kid would have to endure much suffering and pain. This too IMO is an acceptable situation for abortion.

    Everything else though, I see as unacceptable. I cannot even comprehend how some people feel so comfortable killing a human only because they forgot to use a condom or take a pill. To me, that is human kind at its worse. It's irresponsible, selfish and even sadistic. I feel offended when people even contemplate abortion after having a wild night out, and were too careless to think that having unsafe sex might lead to an unwanted pregnancy.

    I mean, the term Pro-Choice gets thrown around a lot, and very lightly. At the end you didn't give the child much choice, did you?

    And just for the record, I find the idea of abortion after the third trimester, utterly disgusting.
  • Dog Loyal
    Dog Loyal Posts: 336
    bee_boy wrote:
    I cannot even comprehend ow some people feel so comfortable killing a human only because they forgot to use a condom or take a pill. To me, that is human kind at its worse. It's irresponsible, selfish and even sadistic.
    So, you think irresponsible, selfish and sadistic people who, in your opinion, represent humankind at its worst, should be PARENTS?

    And please, don't put adoption up there as your answer because women and girls who carry a pregnancy they didn't want to full term and go though labor and tidal waves of emotion that are inherent in giving away a child are ANYTHING but irresponsible, selfish and sadistic.

    So believe me, these people you think represent the worst of humanity are going to be the ones raising their unwanted offspring.

    However, I want to say that I fully support your right not to have an abortion and not to ever have sex of any kind that might result in an unintended pregnancy.
    The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
  • bee_boy
    bee_boy Posts: 384
    Dog Loyal wrote:
    So, you think irresponsible, selfish and sadistic people who, in your opinion, represent humankind at its worst, should be PARENTS?

    And please, don't put adoption up there as your answer because women and girls who carry a pregnancy they didn't want to full term and go though labor and tidal waves of emotion that are inherent in giving away a child are ANYTHING but irresponsible, selfish and sadistic.

    So believe me, these people you think represent the worst of humanity are going to be the ones raising their unwanted offspring.

    However, I want to say that I fully support your right not to have an abortion and not to ever have sex of any kind that might result in an unintended pregnancy.
    You DO have a point there. That child might suffer being raised by people like that, but there MUST be another way, I simply don't see killing the child as a final answer. It just seems to be the easy way out. And yeah, I was indeed thinking about adoption.
    Dog Loyal wrote:
    However, I want to say that I fully support your right not to have an abortion and not to ever have sex of any kind that might result in an unintended pregnancy.
    Was this a sarcastic comment?

    Please note that I'm not waging war on anyone. I'm just saying my thoughts about a much debated topic, and one which I feel strongly about. I'm just an unexperienced, very opinionated youngster.
  • Dog Loyal
    Dog Loyal Posts: 336
    bee_boy wrote:
    You DO have a point there. That child might suffer being raised by people like that, but there MUST be another way, I simply don't see killing the child as a final answer. It just seems to be the easy way out. And yeah, I was indeed thinking about adoption.
    It is not a "child" anymore than the acorn I have in my pocket is an oak tree, or the carton of eggs in your fridge is a dozen chickens. It is not even a sentient being.

    A girl or woman should not be forced into motherhood (a HUGE commitment!) or into servitude to bear children for the childless just because her method of birth control failed, or even if her self-control failed. The punishment does not fit the crime.

    You know who I want to see raising kids? People who take parenthood seriously! Not people who can't even manage to master something so basic as birth control. Women who have had abortions in the past tend to be MORE concientious mothers than those who just bear kids willy-nilly 'cause oopsie, they got preggers. Women have abortions because they understand what a serious, lifelong commitment motherhood is and they refuse to enter into it lightly.
    The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
  • bee_boy
    bee_boy Posts: 384
    Dog Loyal wrote:
    It is not a "child" anymore than the acorn I have in my pocket is an oak tree, or the carton of eggs in your fridge is a dozen chickens. It is not even a sentient being.

    A girl or woman should not be forced into motherhood (a HUGE commitment!) or into servitude to bear children for the childless just because her method of birth control failed, or even if her self-control failed. The punishment does not fit the crime.

    You know who I want to see raising kids? People who take parenthood seriously! Not people who can't even manage to master something so basic as birth control. Women who have had abortions in the past tend to be MORE concientious mothers than those who just bear kids willy-nilly 'cause oopsie, they got preggers. Women have abortions because they understand what a serious, lifelong commitment motherhood is and they refuse to enter into it lightly.

    OK, so I take you're a mum yourself. I do get your point, and as a more experienced person (you) I'm being as open to your thoughts as it's humanly possible for a 22 year-old.

    I get your take on motherhood and I completely agree that being a mum is not something you can improvise. You have to be prepared physically, mentally and spiritually for such a huge task. After all it is a human you're about to raise.

    BUT, I do think that people should be conscious enough to practice self control if they don't have a method of protection, and if they know beforehand that they're gonna end up in bed with someone, to be responsible enough to buy something that will help prevent that unwanted pregnancy. If they do use protection, and this fails... well, I guess that would be something for me to think about. It could end up as another of my exceptions.
  • Dog Loyal
    Dog Loyal Posts: 336
    bee_boy wrote:
    Was this a sarcastic comment?
    Not at all. I really hope that you manage to never take part in an unexpected or ill-timed pregnancy, and that you will be man enough to either keep it in your pants or refuse to blindly follow the Catholic dictates forbidding birth control.

    I've never had an unplanned pregnancy, yet I've had a late-term (second trimester) abortion. You never know what might happen to you in life.
    The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.
  • Dog Loyal
    Dog Loyal Posts: 336
    bee_boy wrote:
    OK, so I take you're a mum yourself. I do get your point, and as a more experienced person (you) I'm being as open to your thoughts as it's humanly possible for a 22 year-old.

    I get your take on motherhood and I completely agree that being a mum is not something you can improvise. You have to be prepared physically, mentally and spiritually for such a huge task. After all it is a human you're about to raise.

    BUT, I do think that people should be conscious enough to practice self control if they don't have a method of protection, and if they know beforehand that they're gonna end up in bed with someone, to be responsible enough to buy something that will help prevent that unwanted pregnancy. If they do use protection, and this fails... well, I guess that would be something for me to think about. It could end up as another of my exceptions.
    I'm with you there, Bee-boy. I'm all for birth control!
    The kids of today should defend themselves against the Seventies Nineties.

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