europe - grim prospect ahead?

surferdude · May 2006

IndianSummer wrote:

but even then there are so many stay at home moms. who could easily have more kids if the govt shared the burden of raising the kids.

Anyone who thinks that there is a burden in raising kids should be spayed or neutered. It's a priviledge not a burden. How about we encourage people to have the number of kids they both want and can responsibly raise and care for themselves (including financially).
If you want to improve the economy why don't we have the government give everyone an extra $100,000 annually that they have to spend on goods and services made in their country. Sounds pretty assinine but no more crazy than paying families to be baby making machines.

IndianSummer · May 2006

so whats the solution???

should europe sit and watch itself weakening and collapsing and being overrun by immigrants??

BrotherLoveBone · May 2006

IndianSummer wrote:

somehow the thing that baffles me most in the whole thing is why simultaneously there is this noise about the shortage of manpower and protest about the outsourcing (which actually tackles the former problem)

Well it's a complex thing. It's hard to put a 40 year old factory worker to work in a hospital anyway. Back in the day of protectionism governments could fund domestic industries and keep them competitive. In Finland for example we have/had a strong metal industry since we had to pay Russia "war damages" for 20 years after the war with goods mostly made by the metal industry and even after the damages were payed they remained our biggest trade partner and mostly the trade was done by trading goods for goods no money. We got cheap oil form there so even the oil crisis in the 70's didn't affect us that much. When Russia collapsed and european markets opened the industry started to struggle. The old facilities were still up and running but no new investments were being made.

The same happened with forest/paper industry which is huge here and paper workers have always had huge salaries since their significance for export is grucial and they won't give away any benefits they've fought for during the years.

The education system couldn't adapt to the changing economical system and it was producing the same amount of young metal/paper workers as before when everyone got a job for sure so the number of unemployed got higher fast. At the same time the bigger generations were starting to need more and more health care and for longer periods than before since they were living longer. The underpayed health and social care sectors started to run out of money and new employees.

Even now schools have to compete to get in as much students as possible so they develop programs that attract large number of sudents like graphic design for example. There are vast amounts of new graphic designers graduating all over the country although there are basically now new job openings anywhere, but the shcools don't mind since they get their funds according to the amount of kids getting in and graduating.

So the biggest problem is that the outsourcing is uneven and affects the old traditional industries the most which for many people is hard to accept since thing like finnish wood and paper are somewhat a national thing to count on and be proud of but now it's diminishing.
The other problem is the difference between what type of people are graduating and what type of people are actually needed in the workforce...

1970RR · May 2006

soulsinging wrote:

honestly, people having less kids is a good thing i think. now if only we could find a way to redirect some of the resources they dont need to people who do need them, we'd be set.

Unless you have expensive social-welfare system that relies on new taxpayers for funding.

surferdude · May 2006

IndianSummer wrote:

so whats the solution???

should europe sit and watch itself weakening and collapsing and being overrun by immigrants??

Why the fear of being overrun by immigrants? Canada, the US and a few other countries have been fairly successful while relying on an influx of immigrants.

BrotherLoveBone · May 2006

IndianSummer wrote:

getting what??
but even then there are so many stay at home moms. who could easily have more kids if the govt shared the burden of raising the kids.

Oh, sorry. =A gollege degree.

They should've made decisions to encourage people to have more kids 20 years ago now there's not much room to help young families since the pension bomb is about to blow

IndianSummer · May 2006

BrotherLoveBone wrote:

Even now schools have to compete to get in as much students as possible so they develop programs that attract large number of sudents like graphic design for example. There are vast amounts of new graphic designers graduating all over the country although there are basically now new job openings anywhere, but the shcools don't mind since they get their funds according to the amount of kids getting in and graduating.

So the biggest problem is that the outsourcing is uneven and affects the old traditional industries the most which for many people is hard to accept since thing like finnish wood and paper are somewhat a national thing to count on and be proud of but now it's diminishing.
The other problem is the difference between what type of people are graduating and what type of people are actually needed in the workforce...

hitech/developed countries can ill afford to produce produce so many graduates in low-tech walks of life.

now i understand why he west is so woefully short of technically skilled manpower, while at the same time being technologically advanced.

and what baffles me now (a new bafffle !!) is why students want to graduate in arts based courses when the whole market demand is for science guys.

IndianSummer · May 2006

surferdude wrote:

Why the fear of being overrun by immigrants? Canada, the US and a few other countries have been fairly successful while relying on an influx of immigrants.

usa and european countries ar not the same thing.

usa is the third most populous country inthe world and even after so many non-white immigrants, they account for maybe 10% of the population, if that.

if smaller european countries took in that many people, they would collapse or at least their demographics would get skewed permanently.

my2hands · May 2006

the belief in a "greater power" is a weakness... fable's and fantasy's that are blindly accepted as truth by weak human beings... it is OK because i am weak too in my own way...

i see faith in a higher power as humans way of supporting its belief that we are advanced... we cannot imagine that we evolved from lower beings...our arrogance makes us believe that we are created by an "all-mighty god" to justify our arrogant view of ourself and our place in the world/universe

this subject can be very deep and causes me to drift off into hours of contemplation... so i do thank organized religion for that

ps... who doesnt know the catholic religion is a COMPLETE FRAUD?

my2hands · May 2006

surferdude wrote:

Anyone who thinks that there is a burden in raising kids should be spayed or neutered. It's a priviledge not a burden.

i agree, and i dont even have kids

know1 · May 2006

danmac wrote:

Another fucking bible basher. I'm close minded for not believing in an 1800 year old text that was writeen purely as a means for the Roman Empire to control the midle east, to stave off rebellion, to neuter the Jewish faith, years after the 'fact' happened?

Jesus? He was an actual historical figure, but nothing more than a pagan heretic, a mouthy rebel jew, at best.

I believe in reality, in science, in logic, in humanity, in all the things the majority of this world believe in.

Not magic, not miracles, not dogma, not being told what to do in the guise of 'faith'.

Tell me, Mother Theresa, taking from that post you are a committed christian, so are al other religions wrong too? Islam, Hindu, Jewish, Buddhists, are they al wrong because they dont believe in what you believe?

Therein lies one of the many hypocrisies.

I'm not Mother Theresa. I'm very far from it. I know that man has fallibilities while you seem to think that man is supreme. You're the one with the God complex, not me.

I chuckle at your inordinate amount of faith in science considering that science has been proven no more right than the bible.

Your comments about the church and Jesus and the bible are extremely humorous as well. I take it that you stumbled upon some enlightenment that has "proven" your theories? If not, they are no more valid than those of a religious person.

And yes, I believe the other religions are wrong. If I believed they were right, then I would belong to them.

BrotherLoveBone · May 2006

They should get experts to give lectures in high schools about what will happen on the job market in the near future. First comprehensive lessons about the future of the economy i heard in university when i had already decided my future career. They should talk about this when the decisions about the future are made not afterwards.

It's the same with sex and drugs education,many kids have already smoked pot and had some kind of a sexual experience when they are educated about the issues at home or school.

Kids sitting in front of the computer realize that they can make web pages and graphics easily and think they can make a career out of it without realizing that they can use the same talent in some other job that actually can earn them a living.

surferdude · May 2006

IndianSummer wrote:

usa and european countries ar not the same thing.

usa is the third most populous country inthe world and even after so many non-white immigrants, they account for maybe 10% of the population, if that.

if smaller european countries took in that many people, they would collapse or at least their demographics would get skewed permanently.

The color on the skin shouldn't matter. Government has a role in helping people assimilate.

BrotherLoveBone · May 2006

And of course having children isn't a burden but modern women also want to work and they have ambitions to show their skills outside home too so the number of children in a modern family is much lower than before. They haven't stopped having babies but aren't having as many as before.

My mom has 8 siblings and dad 7 but i'm an only child and only a few of my friends has more than 2-3 siblings.

After the war when men returned home there was a big baby boom here for years so it has made the population growth uneven.

Collin · May 2006

know1 wrote:

I chuckle at your inordinate amount of faith in science considering that science has been proven no more right than the bible.

You can't prove anything in the Bible. You can prove science.

And yes, I believe the other religions are wrong. If I believed they were right, then I would belong to them.

know1 wrote:

danmac wrote:

I believe in love, hate, good, evil, I believe in man, I believe in the earth, I believe in all that I can see, all that I feel. I dont need a false belief to get me through a life that is hard enough already. I only need me.

In other words, you are extremely close minded and only mentally able to grasp the concrete things you have personally experienced.

Firstly, love, hate, good and evil are not concrete things. Secondly, you call someone extremely close minded, but you just called everyone who is not a Christian wrong. Talk about an open mind.

soulsinging · May 2006

1970RR wrote:

Unless you have expensive social-welfare system that relies on new taxpayers for funding.

if you've got more jobs than people doing them you have less unemployment and less need for social welfare systems.

cincybearcat · May 2006

my2hands wrote:

the belief in a "greater power" is a weakness... fable's and fantasy's that are blindly accepted as truth by weak human beings... it is OK because i am weak too in my own way...

i see faith in a higher power as humans way of supporting its belief that we are advanced... we cannot imagine that we evolved from lower beings...our arrogance makes us believe that we are created by an "all-mighty god" to justify our arrogant view of ourself and our place in the world/universe

this subject can be very deep and causes me to drift off into hours of contemplation... so i do thank organized religion for that

ps... who doesnt know the catholic religion is a COMPLETE FRAUD?

You are no better than the 'bible beaters' you profess to hate and to be so much smarter then.

Anyhow, I think that Europe grim prospects can be summed up much better in their unemployment rates than whether or not they believe in a god.

soulsinging · May 2006

my2hands wrote:

the belief in a "greater power" is a weakness... fable's and fantasy's that are blindly accepted as truth by weak human beings... it is OK because i am weak too in my own way...

i see faith in a higher power as humans way of supporting its belief that we are advanced... we cannot imagine that we evolved from lower beings...our arrogance makes us believe that we are created by an "all-mighty god" to justify our arrogant view of ourself and our place in the world/universe

this subject can be very deep and causes me to drift off into hours of contemplation... so i do thank organized religion for that

ps... who doesnt know the catholic religion is a COMPLETE FRAUD?

i believe in a greater power and evolution. can your mind wrap itself around that contradiction? dont go confusing all faith or belief in higher powers with Catholic doctrine.

know1 · May 2006

my2hands wrote:

the belief in a "greater power" is a weakness... fable's and fantasy's that are blindly accepted as truth by weak human beings... it is OK because i am weak too in my own way...

i see faith in a higher power as humans way of supporting its belief that we are advanced... we cannot imagine that we evolved from lower beings...our arrogance makes us believe that we are created by an "all-mighty god" to justify our arrogant view of ourself and our place in the world/universe

this subject can be very deep and causes me to drift off into hours of contemplation... so i do thank organized religion for that

ps... who doesnt know the catholic religion is a COMPLETE FRAUD?

See - I see it far more arrogant to believe that humans are the supreme being.

know1 · May 2006

Collin wrote:

You can't prove anything in the Bible. You can prove science.

Give me one example of something that science has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt? There is none. All they can do is observe and recognize patterns based upon limited human experience. Tomorrow, new information could be presented that renders their theories incorrect. A scientist would never profess that something has been completely proven.

Collin wrote:

Firstly, love, hate, good and evil are not concrete things. Secondly, you call someone extremely close minded, but you just called everyone who is not a Christian wrong. Talk about an open mind.

No - I didn't say they were wrong. I said I BELIEVED that their beliefs are wrong. I left it open to the possibility that if something changed and I then believed they were correct, I would convert.

europe - grim prospect ahead?

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