Joining the army

The Illinoisemakers · November 2006

sapperskunk wrote:

I joined for all the typical reasons, nothing special here, but it was hands down the best thing I've ever done for myself. For a stupid punk rocker who barely graduated high school to now be attending a great university today is a drastic change for myself. Don't discourage your buddy, it's a huge decision that he has to think hard about. And who says he's going to kill anyone, he can become a supply clerk, or a finance specialist. Atleast this is the US army I'm talking about.

You can never be prepared to kill anyone, technically yes, emotionally no.

Remember combat arms isn't for everybody.
Tell your boy to check out the SAPPERS. It's worth the hell, you'll grow hair on your chest and back and shoulders and ears and elbows and kneecaps and forehead. Weird huh?

Did the army turn you into a sasquatch?

qtegirl · November 2006

Binaural wrote:

This has always puzzled me. I have known a few people who have joined the army and I have never understood, or indeed supported them in, their decision. I have never understood how the majority of people can do it. There are a number of stereotypical reasons for joining; "They're paying for my degree", "The money is good", "I'll get to see the world" or the classic "I'm defending my country". The reason I find it hard to understand these reasons is because in most cases people take for granted the fact that at some point in their army career they may have to kill someone and that is such a huge thing. I mean how you do agree to be potentially responsible for taking a life and be so blase about the agreement? How can you be prepared to kill a stranger for a stranger? I'm half venting, half trying to generate discussion. Anyone got any experiences of this or any thoughts?

PEACE

I joined because I found myself pregnant in high school, my husband (yes, I married the guy) and I were working fast food and I didn't think I could go to college. I finished HS, but he didn't. We barely made enough money to survive and didn't have any health insurance for our baby.

Now, this was 1994 and thank God I never go deployed and I never had to face any of the horrors that soldiers have to face now. All and all, it was the right decision at the time. I finished my enlistment and went to college and now I have a degree in engineering, bought my own house, and my daughter has a much better life than I could've given her if I hadn't done those things.

I didn't want to go to war and I don't know what I would've done if that had happened. It was always in the back of my mind... especially when I had to qualify with my M-16. I couldn't believe I was shooting a gun, even if it was just at a target. I'm just glad I never had to shoot at any person.

Anyway, that's why I joined. I wouldn't encourge anyone to join right now... cuz I wouldn't do it myself. But overall, it was good experience, both in a professional and personal level.

Binaural · November 2006

bgivens33 wrote:

So, Just so I am understanding you correctly, I wanted to clarify that you are saying you don't support the army/military at all? Or just people that you know joining the army? If it's the former, then how would you suggest responding to outside attacks? I've never had someone point a gun at me, but if that were to be the case, I would have absolutely no problem killing them.

I guess I'm just a bit confused by what you are saying. I think sometimes people get caught up in the policy that is behind the war, they forget about the people fighting it. The people fighting it don't decided policies, nor are they even asked. They always will have my support, maybe that's just me though.

I think people take the notion of the army for granted. If someone was pointing a gun at me and I knew they'd shoot me I would probably shoot them. However by VOLUNTEERING for the army YOU put YOURSELF in that situation.

PEACE

Binaural · November 2006

DCGARDEN wrote:

Maybe you should check out some readings on your own that are independent of your school books. Yes Britain was aware of Hitler's views - but Britain was also aware of it's limitations at that time - Churchill wanted to take Hitler
out way before he actually got the chance to - He wanted the United States to fully commit herself to the war -

The night of Pearl Harbor, Churchill supposedly said, " We just won the war "

As for your main question on why someone would serve, as sick as it sounds to you, some people are actually able to put their country above themselves - People sign up to become Cops - The chances of shooting another person are probably greater in that field ( maybe not this day & age) but overall - yes - it's just that there's a lot of war currently so it makes it seem crazier to you -

First of all, I was not sarcastic or rude and you show yourself as an ass for wording your response in the way that you have. What about when Churchill visted Germany early early on and praised Hitler? Funny how things changed once Hitler made Germany powerful enough to challenge Britain eh? But as somene said earlier in the thread, let's not get sidetracked.
You seem to be under the impression that the army and the police force are positive things. Sure in their ideal they are positive however in reality they are far from it. Do they do good? Yeah they do, but there are also many negatives. I only tried to generate discussion. Not a bickering match.

PEACE

audome25 · November 2006

SweetHarmonics wrote:

It seems like they prey on the downtrodden and unemployed, obviously. A theory on the correlation between the circumstances (relatively high unemployment and the start of the War On Terror) isn't exactly groundbreaking but it's hugely relevant to the discussion.

Some conspiracy theorists might go as far to accuse them of manufacturing such a scenario.

not sure you can "prey" on something that has to volunteer.

audome25 · November 2006

DCGARDEN wrote:

Yes Britain was aware of Hitler's views - but Britain was also aware of it's limitations at that time - Churchill wanted to take Hitler
out way before he actually got the chance to

pre emptive is also considered war mongering, a lesson being learned now. the next time powers will wait late than they should.

wash, rinse, repeat.

Binaural · November 2006

audome25 wrote:

not sure you can "prey" on something that has to volunteer.

How does that work then?

PEACE

gabers · November 2006

Recruiters go after the easiest targets. They have goals they have to meet. It is much easier to recruit a guy that could barely graduate high school and has no valuable job skills than a kid from the suburbs that has good grades and plans on getting a degree. I was actually the latter and served in the Army for four years. I joined as the original Gulf War was petering out. I had no desire to go to war. I never wanted to kill anyone. I wanted to see the world, challenge myself, and get money for college. I knew all along that war, and in turn shooting someone was a possibility but I believed at that time that if that time came it was for a legitimate reason and instincts would take over. I'm proud to have served and proud of the job the troops (most of them) are doing. I just despise this administration and the chickenhawks who so readily sent our troops to fight an unjust war while avoiding actually ever fighting in a war themselves.

Cosmo · November 2006

Even at this ripe old age, I would definately join the fight and kill or be killed if I have to, in order to protect the Principles of our Constitution from foriegn armies. I will not participate in our economic expansion or adventures in acclaimation to our way of life onto other cultures and/or societies by means of our military. I see the latter as a wreckless abuse of our military resource. If someone asks us to help free them, then I can see the nobility in our aid to end oppresion. I do not see spreading our form of society by the business end of our guns.
If there were Arabic Armies in Orange County, California trying to 'Spread Theocracy' in America to make us closer to God (Allah) and further from our current decadent, sexual/monetary based way of life... I would surely be blowing up the sonzabitches and going after treasonous 'Americans' collaborating with these foriegn invaders. Nothing to do with sex and money... everything to do with them telling me what is good for me. Their governments and Al Jazzera would call me a 'terrorist', but seriously, I wouldn't give a shit.

Ebizzie · November 2006

SweetHarmonics wrote:

It seems like they prey on the downtrodden and unemployed, obviously. A theory on the correlation between the circumstances (relatively high unemployment and the start of the War On Terror) isn't exactly groundbreaking but it's hugely relevant to the discussion.

Some conspiracy theorists might go as far to accuse them of manufacturing such a scenario.

Do the downtrodden and unemployed have many other opportunities to climb the societal ladder? I'd venture to say that the US Armed Services are the ONLY TRUE equal opportunity employer in the nation.

Also, I would be willing to be that, academically, students at Westpoint are probably stronger than those at most Ivy League schools. Some of the sharpest minds in this nation commit themselves to the service each and every year.

Eliot Rosewater · November 2006

Sure there are some smart folks over there but it's long been my opinion that people join the military for one of three reasons.

1) Poverty (promised a job & money for education)
2) Ignorance (brainwashed into thinking that fighting is patriotic and noble)
3) Stupidity (like my best friend Tyler who knows the risks and doesn't believe in the cause, but he wants more flying time in a helicopter)

It's been argued on this board several times because people think they can come up with other reasons why someone would ever join the U.S. military but without fail, any reason will fall into one of these three categories.

jlew24asu · November 2006

don't gimme no wrote:

Sure there are some smart folks over there but it's long been my opinion that people join the military for one of three reasons.

1) Poverty (promised a job & money for education)
2) Ignorance (brainwashed into thinking that fighting is patriotic and noble)
3) Stupidity (like my best friend Tyler who knows the risks and doesn't believe in the cause, but he wants more flying time in a helicopter)

It's been argued on this board several times because people think they can come up with other reasons why someone would ever join the U.S. military but without fail, any reason will fall into one of these three categories.

so anytime someone wants to join the military because they feel its patrotic and noble, they are just being ignorant? says who, you?

do me a favor. stand up, walk over to your bathroom and look in the mirror.

what category did Pat Tillman fall in?

Eliot Rosewater · November 2006

jlew24asu wrote:

so anytime someone wants to join the military because they feel its patrotic and noble, they are just being ignorant? says who, you?

do me a favor. stand up, walk over to your bathroom and look in the mirror.

what category did Pat Tillman fall in?

Goodness...do you really need me to narrow that one down for you? It's been well documented that he joined after 9/11 because he felt a sudden sense of patriotism. Can it get more ironic than not only having the leaders of your country putting you in harm's way for no valid reason, but to be killed by followers of that very same belief? Unfortunately, he falls into the category of ignorance.

jlew24asu · November 2006

don't gimme no wrote:

Goodness...do you really need me to narrow that one down for you? It's been well documented that he joined after 9/11 because he felt a sudden sense of patriotism. Can it get more ironic than not only having the leaders of your country putting you in harm's way for no valid reason, but to be killed by followers of that very same belief? Unfortunately, he falls into the category of ignorance.

ignorant to what?

yes he joined the marines because he wanted to go and fight the people who brought the fight to our shores. and?

he was involved in a battle and was accidently killed in a friendly fire accident. ok.

Eliot Rosewater · November 2006

jlew24asu wrote:

ignorant to what?

yes he joined the marines because he wanted to go and fight the people who brought the fight to our shores. and?

he was involved in a battle and was accidently killed in a friendly fire accident. ok.

Ignorant to United States foreign policy. He believed he was fighting to defend his country. Anyone that knows shit about US foreign policy and the history of this country knows that is not the case at all. I'm sorry, but he was ignorant. I'm not ripping on him or any of our troops because the grand majority believe they're doing the right thing....I just think they're wrong, that's all.

jlew24asu · November 2006

don't gimme no wrote:

Ignorant to United States foreign policy. He believed he was fighting to defend his country. Anyone that knows shit about US foreign policy and the history of this country knows that is not the case at all. I'm sorry, but he was ignorant. I'm not ripping on him or any of our troops because the grand majority believe they're doing the right thing....I just think they're wrong, that's all.

I hate to shatter your precious ego but you are wrong.

Pat Tillman specifically joined the marines so he can fight the people who attacked us on 9/11.

that is not ignorance to anything.

He is extremely noble and patriotic and a great American.

you sir, should be ashamed of yourself.

Eliot Rosewater · November 2006

jlew24asu wrote:

I hate to shatter your precious ego but you are wrong.

Pat Tillman specifically joined the marines so he can fight the people who attacked us on 9/11.

that is not ignorance to anything.

He is extremely noble and patriotic and a great American.

you sir, should be ashamed of yourself.

lmao...well, he was misled about who exactly attacked us. That can definitely be classified as ignorance, can it not? Ashamed? I am ashamed. I'm ashamed of my country and I'm ashamed of its actions and policies over the past 10+ years. Fighting in a war is not my idea of patriotism. It's animalistic......barbaric at best. Peace is the way, my friend. Killing in the name of "freedom" or anything else is still killing.

Edit: - also not sure who said it, but in response to your statement that he was fighting the people who attacked us.....an eye for an eye does nothing but leave the whole world blind. Way to go Pat.

chopitdown · November 2006

don't gimme no wrote:

Peace is the way, my friend. Killing in the name of "freedom" or anything else is still killing.

Edit: - also not sure who said it, but in response to your statement that he was fighting the people who attacked us.....an eye for an eye does nothing but leave the whole world blind. Way to go Pat.

no one will argue that peace is the way; however, as soon as one person in the world feels that peace isn't the way and uses violence to get something REALITY says that you have to up the ante and use force... IDEALISM says if you are just more peaceful they will see their flaws and quit being mean. Your eye for an eye bumper sticker is a nice catch phrase but doesn't translate well to reality.

The Illinoisemakers · November 2006

don't gimme no wrote:

Sure there are some smart folks over there but it's long been my opinion that people join the military for one of three reasons.

1) Poverty (promised a job & money for education)
2) Ignorance (brainwashed into thinking that fighting is patriotic and noble)
3) Stupidity (like my best friend Tyler who knows the risks and doesn't believe in the cause, but he wants more flying time in a helicopter)

It's been argued on this board several times because people think they can come up with other reasons why someone would ever join the U.S. military but without fail, any reason will fall into one of these three categories.

Wow, its pretty easy to sit and hide behind your computer and say that but I would love to hear you say that to some of the people I know in the armed forces.

bgivens33 · November 2006

The Illinoisemakers wrote:

Wow, its pretty easy to sit and hide behind your computer and say that but I would love to hear you say that to some of the people I know in the armed forces.

Very nicely said.

What keeps getting me is these people listing all the wrong reasons for joining the military.... yet, the military benefits them. I think people tend to group the military with the people making the decisions all into one lump. Joe Soldier, doesn't have a say into who he attacks. And what is the solution?? Obviously these people want to disband it all together? I feel like I'm preaching to the choir, but I asked Binaural and he completely dodged my question. And that's because it's trendy to be anti-war, but not very realistic. The military serves a very necessary function and albeit not always an agreable one. The kids that serve in the military are no different from everyone else. Why hold bad political decisions against them? But, "don't gimme no" seems to know exactly what the military has to offer, and has his three reasons for joining, and with his vast experience in the military, we should listen to him

Joining the army

Comments

Categories