Sure there are some smart folks over there but it's long been my opinion that people join the military for one of three reasons.
1) Poverty (promised a job & money for education)
2) Ignorance (brainwashed into thinking that fighting is patriotic and noble)
3) Stupidity (like my best friend Tyler who knows the risks and doesn't believe in the cause, but he wants more flying time in a helicopter)
It's been argued on this board several times because people think they can come up with other reasons why someone would ever join the U.S. military but without fail, any reason will fall into one of these three categories.
Sure there are some smart folks over there but it's long been my opinion that people join the military for one of three reasons.
1) Poverty (promised a job & money for education)
2) Ignorance (brainwashed into thinking that fighting is patriotic and noble)
3) Stupidity (like my best friend Tyler who knows the risks and doesn't believe in the cause, but he wants more flying time in a helicopter)
It's been argued on this board several times because people think they can come up with other reasons why someone would ever join the U.S. military but without fail, any reason will fall into one of these three categories.
so anytime someone wants to join the military because they feel its patrotic and noble, they are just being ignorant? says who, you?
do me a favor. stand up, walk over to your bathroom and look in the mirror.
so anytime someone wants to join the military because they feel its patrotic and noble, they are just being ignorant? says who, you?
do me a favor. stand up, walk over to your bathroom and look in the mirror.
what category did Pat Tillman fall in?
Goodness...do you really need me to narrow that one down for you? It's been well documented that he joined after 9/11 because he felt a sudden sense of patriotism. Can it get more ironic than not only having the leaders of your country putting you in harm's way for no valid reason, but to be killed by followers of that very same belief? Unfortunately, he falls into the category of ignorance.
Goodness...do you really need me to narrow that one down for you? It's been well documented that he joined after 9/11 because he felt a sudden sense of patriotism. Can it get more ironic than not only having the leaders of your country putting you in harm's way for no valid reason, but to be killed by followers of that very same belief? Unfortunately, he falls into the category of ignorance.
ignorant to what?
yes he joined the marines because he wanted to go and fight the people who brought the fight to our shores. and?
he was involved in a battle and was accidently killed in a friendly fire accident. ok.
yes he joined the marines because he wanted to go and fight the people who brought the fight to our shores. and?
he was involved in a battle and was accidently killed in a friendly fire accident. ok.
Ignorant to United States foreign policy. He believed he was fighting to defend his country. Anyone that knows shit about US foreign policy and the history of this country knows that is not the case at all. I'm sorry, but he was ignorant. I'm not ripping on him or any of our troops because the grand majority believe they're doing the right thing....I just think they're wrong, that's all.
Ignorant to United States foreign policy. He believed he was fighting to defend his country. Anyone that knows shit about US foreign policy and the history of this country knows that is not the case at all. I'm sorry, but he was ignorant. I'm not ripping on him or any of our troops because the grand majority believe they're doing the right thing....I just think they're wrong, that's all.
I hate to shatter your precious ego but you are wrong.
Pat Tillman specifically joined the marines so he can fight the people who attacked us on 9/11.
that is not ignorance to anything.
He is extremely noble and patriotic and a great American.
I hate to shatter your precious ego but you are wrong.
Pat Tillman specifically joined the marines so he can fight the people who attacked us on 9/11.
that is not ignorance to anything.
He is extremely noble and patriotic and a great American.
you sir, should be ashamed of yourself.
lmao...well, he was misled about who exactly attacked us. That can definitely be classified as ignorance, can it not? Ashamed? I am ashamed. I'm ashamed of my country and I'm ashamed of its actions and policies over the past 10+ years. Fighting in a war is not my idea of patriotism. It's animalistic......barbaric at best. Peace is the way, my friend. Killing in the name of "freedom" or anything else is still killing.
Edit: - also not sure who said it, but in response to your statement that he was fighting the people who attacked us.....an eye for an eye does nothing but leave the whole world blind. Way to go Pat.
Peace is the way, my friend. Killing in the name of "freedom" or anything else is still killing.
Edit: - also not sure who said it, but in response to your statement that he was fighting the people who attacked us.....an eye for an eye does nothing but leave the whole world blind. Way to go Pat.
no one will argue that peace is the way; however, as soon as one person in the world feels that peace isn't the way and uses violence to get something REALITY says that you have to up the ante and use force... IDEALISM says if you are just more peaceful they will see their flaws and quit being mean. Your eye for an eye bumper sticker is a nice catch phrase but doesn't translate well to reality.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
Sure there are some smart folks over there but it's long been my opinion that people join the military for one of three reasons.
1) Poverty (promised a job & money for education)
2) Ignorance (brainwashed into thinking that fighting is patriotic and noble)
3) Stupidity (like my best friend Tyler who knows the risks and doesn't believe in the cause, but he wants more flying time in a helicopter)
It's been argued on this board several times because people think they can come up with other reasons why someone would ever join the U.S. military but without fail, any reason will fall into one of these three categories.
Wow, its pretty easy to sit and hide behind your computer and say that but I would love to hear you say that to some of the people I know in the armed forces.
Wow, its pretty easy to sit and hide behind your computer and say that but I would love to hear you say that to some of the people I know in the armed forces.
Very nicely said.
What keeps getting me is these people listing all the wrong reasons for joining the military.... yet, the military benefits them. I think people tend to group the military with the people making the decisions all into one lump. Joe Soldier, doesn't have a say into who he attacks. And what is the solution?? Obviously these people want to disband it all together? I feel like I'm preaching to the choir, but I asked Binaural and he completely dodged my question. And that's because it's trendy to be anti-war, but not very realistic. The military serves a very necessary function and albeit not always an agreable one. The kids that serve in the military are no different from everyone else. Why hold bad political decisions against them? But, "don't gimme no" seems to know exactly what the military has to offer, and has his three reasons for joining, and with his vast experience in the military, we should listen to him
Sure there are some smart folks over there but it's long been my opinion that people join the military for one of three reasons.
1) Poverty (promised a job & money for education)
2) Ignorance (brainwashed into thinking that fighting is patriotic and noble)
3) Stupidity (like my best friend Tyler who knows the risks and doesn't believe in the cause, but he wants more flying time in a helicopter)
It's been argued on this board several times because people think they can come up with other reasons why someone would ever join the U.S. military but without fail, any reason will fall into one of these three categories.
this is, possibly, the most assinine thing i have ever read.
Sure there are some smart folks over there but it's long been my opinion that people join the military for one of three reasons.
1) Poverty (promised a job & money for education)
2) Ignorance (brainwashed into thinking that fighting is patriotic and noble)
3) Stupidity (like my best friend Tyler who knows the risks and doesn't believe in the cause, but he wants more flying time in a helicopter)
It's been argued on this board several times because people think they can come up with other reasons why someone would ever join the U.S. military but without fail, any reason will fall into one of these three categories.
...
I believe there are other reasons than those listed as to why people enlist.
One being a belief in the sense of commitment and duty. I know many former and current military people who have enlisted because of various reasons, including their family line... their fathers were Marines, their grandfathers were Marines, etc... I don't question the validity of their beliefs or reasoning.
And fighting in a War is noble or not, depending upon the circumstances of that specific conflict. For example, to fight during World War II would be considered by most as a noble cause... especially in the light that exposed the Nazi plan of genocide. It was justified to eject the Iraqi military from a relatively unarmed Kuwait in 1991. And just like it would be a noble cause to send in our troops to end the killings in the Sudan... protecting unarmed refugees from armed militias is a noble deed, in my eyes.
It is not for the soldier to decide what is noble and what is not... he is not the one who decided to go to war. It is our leaders that should be held responsible.
I don't question why the people enlist of not... that is a personal decision they make.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I hate to shatter your precious ego but you are wrong.
Pat Tillman specifically joined the marines so he can fight the people who attacked us on 9/11.
that is not ignorance to anything.
He is extremely noble and patriotic and a great American.
you sir, should be ashamed of yourself.
...
Just to set the record straight... Tillman was an Army Ranger.
And I do not question his reasoning or his actions (or the actions of the men in the HMMWV that took his life... or the actions of a Swift Boat Captain that lead to his Purple Hearts and Bronze Stars). War sucks and you don't always see what things actually are. In my book, go ahead and question the man's character and opinions... but, don't question his actions when enemy bullets are flying in his direction.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
lmao...well, he was misled about who exactly attacked us. That can definitely be classified as ignorance, can it not? Ashamed? I am ashamed. I'm ashamed of my country and I'm ashamed of its actions and policies over the past 10+ years. Fighting in a war is not my idea of patriotism. It's animalistic......barbaric at best. Peace is the way, my friend. Killing in the name of "freedom" or anything else is still killing.
Edit: - also not sure who said it, but in response to your statement that he was fighting the people who attacked us.....an eye for an eye does nothing but leave the whole world blind. Way to go Pat.
I'm glad you got a good laugh from this. im sure the tillman family thinks its funny too.
but now I understand. you dont believe el queda attacked us? you dont believe we are at war with islamic extremism?
when you wake up from dream land let us know.
im ashmed to call you an american. thankfully so are you and I really hope you consider leaving. you make me sick to my stomach.
plus, i was using money as the old reasons for war and thought that it would be clear...but, even though it is about power and control...those things lead to monetary gain...especially in this situation...so, maybe it is about money...dollar bills...
being blunt, i think most young men join the army due to a handful of factors (the travelling, the lack of graft involved most of the time, the boys-own thrill of assault courses and training, etc), but i think the main reason's like you say - they fail to seriously contemplate the combat situation and the fact they're basically agreeing to be robots preprogrammed to murder.
What keeps getting me is these people listing all the wrong reasons for joining the military.... yet, the military benefits them. I think people tend to group the military with the people making the decisions all into one lump. Joe Soldier, doesn't have a say into who he attacks. And what is the solution?? Obviously these people want to disband it all together? I feel like I'm preaching to the choir, but I asked Binaural and he completely dodged my question. And that's because it's trendy to be anti-war, but not very realistic. The military serves a very necessary function and albeit not always an agreable one. The kids that serve in the military are no different from everyone else. Why hold bad political decisions against them? But, "don't gimme no" seems to know exactly what the military has to offer, and has his three reasons for joining, and with his vast experience in the military, we should listen to him
Ok, here's a response. "don't gimme no" has been ripped on even though he was perfectly able to support his point. The ignorance arguement is valid. Why hold bad political desicions against them? Because they (e.g. those who joined to as someone here said "fight the people who attacked us on 9/11") are joining up due to misguided notions about what the administration is doing, the US is not in Irag or anywhere else in the middle east for peace or freedom, it's about power and the retention of balance and so those fighting for 'their country' are killing people for a cause that doesn't exist.
~*~*~*~*PROUD EVENFLOW PSYCHO #0026~*~*~*~*
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
This goes out to don't gimme no and Commy and all of you other folks out there that seem to think you must me poor and stupid to join the army. Obviously you feel no patriotism to the US whatsoever. Maybe you're not even American. That's fine. But are you too narrow minded to understand that most Americans, and that includes most liberals, do love their country and believe that serving it is a great honor? Your comments are ignorant. Frankly, anything you say from here on out has no validity in my eyes. People like you on the far left give the rest of us liberals/dems a bad name. You are the ones that make Fox News successful.
Right now, joining the Army or Marines may not be a wise choice if you don't believe in war or this administration, but how can you make such callous, broad statements like you have? Was JFK an idiot for serving? Was John Kerry an idiot for serving? Do you realize most of the current war veterans running for office are Democrats? Pull your heads out of your asses and think before you go into one of your uniformed rants. Without patriots willing to fight for our country and stand up for what's right this country would be a whole lot different.
Wow, its pretty easy to sit and hide behind your computer and say that but I would love to hear you say that to some of the people I know in the armed forces.
Well, the people you know may be unreasonable people if you'd "love to hear" me say this to them....I'm guessing you'd expect them to kick my ass or something, which would only further prove my argument. The fact is I know many people in the military (including my best friend) and even they can't really argue my points here. Your post had zero value other than to try to attack me. If you're going to post, maybe you should make it useful, ffs.
...
I believe there are other reasons than those listed as to why people enlist.
One being a belief in the sense of commitment and duty. I know many former and current military people who have enlisted because of various reasons, including their family line... their fathers were Marines, their grandfathers were Marines, etc... I don't question the validity of their beliefs or reasoning.
And fighting in a War is noble or not, depending upon the circumstances of that specific conflict. For example, to fight during World War II would be considered by most as a noble cause... especially in the light that exposed the Nazi plan of genocide. It was justified to eject the Iraqi military from a relatively unarmed Kuwait in 1991. And just like it would be a noble cause to send in our troops to end the killings in the Sudan... protecting unarmed refugees from armed militias is a noble deed, in my eyes.
It is not for the soldier to decide what is noble and what is not... he is not the one who decided to go to war. It is our leaders that should be held responsible.
I don't question why the people enlist of not... that is a personal decision they make.
Okay, you make some good points....so maybe I should limit my reasoning to those who join post-9/11. But then again maybe not. The United States has a history of warmonging. Sure some of the violence that you mention in your post may have been viewd my the majority as justified, but they are few and far between. You fail to mention the Native American genocide, the hostile takeover of part of Mexico, Somolia, Vietnam, etc. To put your trust in the American government as a soldier and rely on them to make noble decisions is ignorant IMO. I agree with you Cosmo that it's our leaders responsibility to make noble decisions...that's where the decision to enlist falls into the ingorance category because it's been proven many, many times in history that our leaders fail more often than not to make noble decisions regarding war. To me, blind trust in corrupt leaders = ignorance.
Also, I know there are families with a tradition of enlisting. And I truly don't mean to offend anyone here, but this seems to fit into the stupidity category. My opinion is that it's a mistake to enlist in the first place so to keep doing it out of tradition calls into question one's intelligence.
Comments
1) Poverty (promised a job & money for education)
2) Ignorance (brainwashed into thinking that fighting is patriotic and noble)
3) Stupidity (like my best friend Tyler who knows the risks and doesn't believe in the cause, but he wants more flying time in a helicopter)
It's been argued on this board several times because people think they can come up with other reasons why someone would ever join the U.S. military but without fail, any reason will fall into one of these three categories.
so anytime someone wants to join the military because they feel its patrotic and noble, they are just being ignorant? says who, you?
do me a favor. stand up, walk over to your bathroom and look in the mirror.
what category did Pat Tillman fall in?
ignorant to what?
yes he joined the marines because he wanted to go and fight the people who brought the fight to our shores. and?
he was involved in a battle and was accidently killed in a friendly fire accident. ok.
I hate to shatter your precious ego but you are wrong.
Pat Tillman specifically joined the marines so he can fight the people who attacked us on 9/11.
that is not ignorance to anything.
He is extremely noble and patriotic and a great American.
you sir, should be ashamed of yourself.
Edit: - also not sure who said it, but in response to your statement that he was fighting the people who attacked us.....an eye for an eye does nothing but leave the whole world blind. Way to go Pat.
no one will argue that peace is the way; however, as soon as one person in the world feels that peace isn't the way and uses violence to get something REALITY says that you have to up the ante and use force... IDEALISM says if you are just more peaceful they will see their flaws and quit being mean. Your eye for an eye bumper sticker is a nice catch phrase but doesn't translate well to reality.
Wow, its pretty easy to sit and hide behind your computer and say that but I would love to hear you say that to some of the people I know in the armed forces.
Very nicely said.
What keeps getting me is these people listing all the wrong reasons for joining the military.... yet, the military benefits them. I think people tend to group the military with the people making the decisions all into one lump. Joe Soldier, doesn't have a say into who he attacks. And what is the solution?? Obviously these people want to disband it all together? I feel like I'm preaching to the choir, but I asked Binaural and he completely dodged my question. And that's because it's trendy to be anti-war, but not very realistic. The military serves a very necessary function and albeit not always an agreable one. The kids that serve in the military are no different from everyone else. Why hold bad political decisions against them? But, "don't gimme no" seems to know exactly what the military has to offer, and has his three reasons for joining, and with his vast experience in the military, we should listen to him
this is, possibly, the most assinine thing i have ever read.
from my window to yours
I believe there are other reasons than those listed as to why people enlist.
One being a belief in the sense of commitment and duty. I know many former and current military people who have enlisted because of various reasons, including their family line... their fathers were Marines, their grandfathers were Marines, etc... I don't question the validity of their beliefs or reasoning.
And fighting in a War is noble or not, depending upon the circumstances of that specific conflict. For example, to fight during World War II would be considered by most as a noble cause... especially in the light that exposed the Nazi plan of genocide. It was justified to eject the Iraqi military from a relatively unarmed Kuwait in 1991. And just like it would be a noble cause to send in our troops to end the killings in the Sudan... protecting unarmed refugees from armed militias is a noble deed, in my eyes.
It is not for the soldier to decide what is noble and what is not... he is not the one who decided to go to war. It is our leaders that should be held responsible.
I don't question why the people enlist of not... that is a personal decision they make.
Hail, Hail!!!
Just to set the record straight... Tillman was an Army Ranger.
And I do not question his reasoning or his actions (or the actions of the men in the HMMWV that took his life... or the actions of a Swift Boat Captain that lead to his Purple Hearts and Bronze Stars). War sucks and you don't always see what things actually are. In my book, go ahead and question the man's character and opinions... but, don't question his actions when enemy bullets are flying in his direction.
Hail, Hail!!!
I'm glad you got a good laugh from this. im sure the tillman family thinks its funny too.
but now I understand. you dont believe el queda attacked us? you dont believe we are at war with islamic extremism?
when you wake up from dream land let us know.
im ashmed to call you an american. thankfully so are you and I really hope you consider leaving. you make me sick to my stomach.
Way to go Pat? are you fucking serious.
wow another gold star for you! what is wrong with you people
may hav been a bit over the top/
money will always compel men to start wars and with that money they can always compel men to fight for those wars
from my window to yours
money? name one war that was started because of money?
you're seeing money as dollar bills...see it as power, and control...
from my window to yours
power and control. yes. I agree.
plus, i was using money as the old reasons for war and thought that it would be clear...but, even though it is about power and control...those things lead to monetary gain...especially in this situation...so, maybe it is about money...dollar bills...
from my window to yours
Ok, here's a response. "don't gimme no" has been ripped on even though he was perfectly able to support his point. The ignorance arguement is valid. Why hold bad political desicions against them? Because they (e.g. those who joined to as someone here said "fight the people who attacked us on 9/11") are joining up due to misguided notions about what the administration is doing, the US is not in Irag or anywhere else in the middle east for peace or freedom, it's about power and the retention of balance and so those fighting for 'their country' are killing people for a cause that doesn't exist.
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
Right now, joining the Army or Marines may not be a wise choice if you don't believe in war or this administration, but how can you make such callous, broad statements like you have? Was JFK an idiot for serving? Was John Kerry an idiot for serving? Do you realize most of the current war veterans running for office are Democrats? Pull your heads out of your asses and think before you go into one of your uniformed rants. Without patriots willing to fight for our country and stand up for what's right this country would be a whole lot different.
Also, I know there are families with a tradition of enlisting. And I truly don't mean to offend anyone here, but this seems to fit into the stupidity category. My opinion is that it's a mistake to enlist in the first place so to keep doing it out of tradition calls into question one's intelligence.
sane.
post.
ever.
name one? and why. other then Iraq war is about oil. yes oil is a valuable commodity to the US. we need it to survive.
how about WWI or II?
or Veitnam?
or Korean War?
all about money?