Joining the army

jlew24asu

don't gimme no wrote:

I know that killing innocent Iraqi civilians is not the only function of the U.S. Military. But history tells us that the U.S. uses its military over and over again for questionable (at best) functions. To join out of pride and honor for this country is ignorant. There is no pride and honor in terrorizing the world and I'm not only referring to Iraq.

We clearly cannot agree. And the difference between us is that I don't think you're stupid. I think you're blinded by all the flags being flown on your street and by this administration ramming their own false definition of patriotism down everyone's throat. Maybe I'm wrong and if anyone's offended then so be it. This is how I feel....

and may god bless america.

just sucks that there are brave people out there defending you and your freedom to openly ridicule these people. without those brave and courageous people in the military you and I might be forced to read the koran 6 times a day.

yes we dont agree. and yes you are correct in our differences. you dont think i'm stupid and I think you are. if your offended, so be it.

Eliot Rosewater

jlew24asu wrote:

yes we dont agree. and yes you are correct in our differences. you dont think i'm stupid and I think you are. if your offended, so be it.

Dude, that made me laugh pretty hard....nice.

jlew24asu

don't gimme no wrote:

Dude, that made me laugh pretty hard....nice.

ignorance is bliss. have a nice day.

Eliot Rosewater

jlew24asu wrote:

ignorance is bliss. have a nice day.

It sure is, jlew. It sure is.

Brave.
Courageous.
Honorable.
Patriotic.

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=223290

jlew24asu

don't gimme no wrote:

It sure is, jlew. It sure is.

Brave.
Courageous.
Honorable.
Patriotic.

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=223290

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_in_Europe_Day

Exactly

Brave.
Courageous.
Honorable.
Patriotic

hippiemom

jlew24asu wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_in_Europe_Day

Exactly

Brave.
Courageous.
Honorable.
Patriotic

You know, WWII is over. All of the people who orchestrated it, and most of the people who fought in it, are dead. We don't get to rest on their laurels forever. Those people may have been brave, courageous, honorable and patriotic, but they are gone. On the other hand, there are people who were involved with Vietnam, Panama, etc. that are still in power, and they are cut from a very different cloth than FDR.

jlew24asu

hippiemom wrote:

You know, WWII is over. All of the people who orchestrated it, and most of the people who fought in it, are dead. We don't get to rest on their laurels forever. Those people may have been brave, courageous, honorable and patriotic, but they are gone. On the other hand, there are people who were involved with Vietnam, Panama, etc. that are still in power, and they are cut from a very different cloth than FDR.

last I checked Vietnam is over too.

hippiemom

jlew24asu wrote:

last I checked Vietnam is over too.

But some of the people involved in it are still hanging around the halls of government.

jlew24asu

hippiemom wrote:

But some of the people involved in it are still hanging around the halls of government.

thats great. besides the point really. people who served in all of these wars are brave and courageous.

not stupid and ignorant.

Ebizzie

don't gimme no wrote:

roflmao....I'm pretty sure you're getting the lack of brain cells confused with owning a set of balls. Again, a useless post from an uninformed poster. Why don't you try to read the fucking thread next time before you post? My premise is not that these people aren't rich. That was my one response to someone saying there are millions like Pat Tillman joining the military. Read before you start calling names and shooting shit out of your ignorant ass.

actually, you said

don't gimme no wrote:

Again, I don't mean to offend anyone with my opinions....and I'm not attacking anyone personally for their decisions but to back me up, there really aren't many smart, rich, and well-informed people that choose to join the military. The people that join are usually lacking one of those qualities.

which was long before Pat Tillman was ever brought into the debate.

You still haven't offered any evidence of your claims. You can say I'm just another ignorant vet spouting shit out of his ass, but you seem genuinely bitter about military service, especially for someone who tried to enlist.

I'm also curious how our soldiers in Iraq, much less you, are able to differentiate between enemies in civilian clothes and civilians in civilian clothes. Who is deciding which deaths are of a civilian nature? How do they know? Please, enlighten us oh wise non-military man.

old and in the way

don't gimme no wrote:

Are you trying to tell me that the military doesn't target young kids in poverty? If it weren't so sad it would be laughable.

The military targets the enemy, military recruiters try to enlist those who would make good candidates for service. It does them no good to persue those who would not qualify or excel in this endevour. Recruiters can be very creative but they are not targeting any particular group except for the young ,smart and athletic. Only about 20% of the age eligible citizens of this nation are even qualified to serve because of the following reasons health ( size weight fitness disease etc.), legal (felony conviction, or pending suits etc.), mental aptitude, ability to adapt and others.

ThumbingMyWay32

Binaural wrote:

This has always puzzled me. I have known a few people who have joined the army and I have never understood, or indeed supported them in, their decision. I have never understood how the majority of people can do it. There are a number of stereotypical reasons for joining; "They're paying for my degree", "The money is good", "I'll get to see the world" or the classic "I'm defending my country". The reason I find it hard to understand these reasons is because in most cases people take for granted the fact that at some point in their army career they may have to kill someone and that is such a huge thing. I mean how you do agree to be potentially responsible for taking a life and be so blase about the agreement? How can you be prepared to kill a stranger for a stranger? I'm half venting, half trying to generate discussion. Anyone got any experiences of this or any thoughts?



PEACE

Um... Balls?

That's my answer.

Other than that I'm not real sure what else there is to understand.

sapperskunk

don't gimme no wrote:

I know that killing innocent Iraqi civilians is not the only function of the U.S. Military. But history tells us that the U.S. uses its military over and over again for questionable (at best) functions. To join out of pride and honor for this country is ignorant. There is no pride and honor in terrorizing the world and I'm not only referring to Iraq.

We clearly cannot agree. And the difference between us is that I don't think you're stupid. I think you're blinded by all the flags being flown on your street and by this administration ramming their own false definition of patriotism down everyone's throat. Maybe I'm wrong and if anyone's offended then so be it. This is how I feel....

You want to know why you're wrong? You've got no credibility. You weren't in combat, you werent in the military and you base your argument on what other people tell you. You seem bitter becaue you didn't join, I'm sorry for that, but you're gonna have to move on and redirect your hate away from veterans for gods sakes.

And forget Iraq for a second, how did you feel about the balkans or somalia, or the first gulf war? Where they worthy of your pride and honour? Shouldn't they have been somebody else's problem?

I'm not blinded by patriotism, I completely understand the "rally around the flag" effect in politics, but I'm also a combat veteran who knows a little bit more on the subject than yourself. And I joined pre 9/11 too.

And with the approval rating of the president and the war in Iraq don't you think 9/11's lost it's lustor just a bit over the last 5 years. You could have given this guy shit right after 9/11. But now your argument is weak.

ThumbingMyWay32

sapperskunk wrote:

You want to know why you're wrong? You've got no credibility. You weren't in combat, you werent in the military and you base your argument on what other people tell you. You seem bitter becaue you didn't join, I'm sorry for that, but you're gonna have to move on and redirect your hate away from veterans for gods sakes.

And forget Iraq for a second, how did you feel about the balkans or somalia, or the first gulf war? Where they worthy of your pride and honour? Shouldn't they have been somebody else's problem?

I'm not blinded by patriotism, I completely understand the "rally around the flag" effect in politics, but I'm also a combat veteran who knows a little bit more on the subject than yourself. And I joined pre 9/11 too.

And with the approval rating of the president and the war in Iraq don't you think 9/11's lost it's lustor just a bit over the last 5 years. You could have given this guy shit right after 9/11. But now your argument is weak.

A big, fat, fucking Amen.

Eliot Rosewater

sapperskunk wrote:

You want to know why you're wrong? You've got no credibility. You weren't in combat, you werent in the military and you base your argument on what other people tell you. You seem bitter becaue you didn't join, I'm sorry for that, but you're gonna have to move on and redirect your hate away from veterans for gods sakes.

And forget Iraq for a second, how did you feel about the balkans or somalia, or the first gulf war? Where they worthy of your pride and honour? Shouldn't they have been somebody else's problem?

I'm not blinded by patriotism, I completely understand the "rally around the flag" effect in politics, but I'm also a combat veteran who knows a little bit more on the subject than yourself. And I joined pre 9/11 too.

And with the approval rating of the president and the war in Iraq don't you think 9/11's lost it's lustor just a bit over the last 5 years. You could have given this guy shit right after 9/11. But now your argument is weak.

Bitter because I didn't join? That's insane. I've never directed my hate toward veterans. The U.S. government puts them in harm's way for selfish and very immoral reasons. I hate the government for that, not the veterans, ffs. I just wish there weren't so many misguided kids out there willing to blindly sign their lives over to the mass killing machine that is the U.S. military. If people read up on American history they'd realize that the military is anything but noble.

sapperskunk

don't gimme no wrote:

Bitter because I didn't join? That's insane. I've never directed my hate toward veterans. The U.S. government puts them in harm's way for selfish and very immoral reasons. I hate the government for that, not the veterans, ffs. I just wish there weren't so many misguided kids out there willing to blindly sign their lives over to the mass killing machine that is the U.S. military. If people read up on American history they'd realize that the military is anything but noble.

What about my question about past conflicts?