Joining the army

13

Comments

  • gabers wrote:
    This goes out to don't gimme no and Commy and all of you other folks out there that seem to think you must me poor and stupid to join the army.
    You fail to address the third suggested reason for joining - ignorance. Your suggestions of honor and patriotism fall into that category if you read my original post.
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    name one? and why. other then Iraq war is about oil. yes oil is a valuable commodity to the US. we need it to survive.

    how about WWI or II?

    or Veitnam?

    or Korean War?


    all about money?
    well, like someone previously mentioned - power, control, world dominance....all equals money. money. money. money. war is money for the warmongers and it's quite silly to declare otherwise.
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    jlew24asu wrote:
    name one? and why. other then Iraq war is about oil. yes oil is a valuable commodity to the US. we need it to survive.

    how about WWI or II?

    or Veitnam?

    or Korean War?


    all about money?
    People don't go around invading other countries in the hopes it will make them poorer.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    well, like someone previously mentioned - power, control, world dominance....all equals money. money. money. money. war is money for the warmongers and it's quite silly to declare otherwise.


    well IMHO power, control, world dominance is much different then money. I guess i'm just being silly.

    You think Hitler killed 6 million jews because he wanted money? no, he wanted power, control, and world dominace
  • You fail to address the third suggested reason for joining - ignorance. Your suggestions of honor and patriotism fall into that category if you read my original post.

    I don't get it, I wasn't poor, stupid, ignorant and I joined pre 9/11.
    The US has been good to me and my family and I felt maybe I could do my part among other reasons. It wasn't blind patriotism, go meet some troops who aren't bitter about long deployments or their units and ask them why they joined. Especially ones that joined pre 9/11. We used to call the latter enlisted 9/11 babies.

    But then again maybe I am a little stupid, I just got a midterm back that didn't go so well. Damn it!
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  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    hippiemom wrote:
    People don't go around invading other countries in the hopes it will make them poorer.

    money is just a side effect of power and control.
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    jlew24asu wrote:
    money is just a side effect of power and control.
    Or ... power and control are just a means to obtain money.

    It works both ways, I don't think they can be separated.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • I don't get it, I wasn't poor, stupid, ignorant and I joined pre 9/11.
    The US has been good to me and my family and I felt maybe I could do my part among other reasons. It wasn't blind patriotism, go meet some troops who aren't bitter about long deployments or their units and ask them why they joined. Especially ones that joined pre 9/11. We used to call the latter enlisted 9/11 babies.

    But then again maybe I am a little stupid, I just got a midterm back that didn't go so well. Damn it!
    Again, I don't mean to offend anyone with my opinions....and I'm not attacking anyone personally for their decisions but to back me up, there really aren't many smart, rich, and well-informed people that choose to join the military. The people that join are usually lacking one of those qualities. And like I said earlier, there probably should be a distinction made between pre and post 9/11 enlistees. But while it seems the U.S. has taken soldier exploitation to higher and higher levels recently, I still believe it's been ever-present in the history of the country.
  • Well, the people you know may be unreasonable people if you'd "love to hear" me say this to them....I'm guessing you'd expect them to kick my ass or something, which would only further prove my argument. The fact is I know many people in the military (including my best friend) and even they can't really argue my points here. Your post had zero value other than to try to attack me. If you're going to post, maybe you should make it useful, ffs.


    No I wouldn't want my family or friends to kick your ass. That wasn't my point. The point was its easy to make outlandish comments like yours from the comforts of home/work/where ever you are, but my guess is you wouldn't say that to a group of soldiers you saw at a bar or on a college campus. I'm not sure why your best friend can't argue your points, that is strange. My guess is your best friend thinks your the idiot, and sees your point as ridiculious. My post was in no way meant to attack you. I think you need to realize that when you make uninformed and offensive comments people are going to take issue with them. ffs!
  • No I wouldn't want my family or friends to kick your ass. That wasn't my point. The point was its easy to make outlandish comments like yours from the comforts of home/work/where ever you are, but my guess is you wouldn't say that to a group of soldiers you saw at a bar or on a college campus. I'm not sure why your best friend can't argue your points, that is strange. My guess is your best friend thinks your the idiot, and sees your point as ridiculious. My post was in no way meant to attack you. I think you need to realize that when you make uninformed and offensive comments people are going to take issue with them. ffs!

    Aren't you the guy that called me a "Sasquatch"?
    www.myspace.com/olafvonmastadon
  • No I wouldn't want my family or friends to kick your ass. That wasn't my point. The point was its easy to make outlandish comments like yours from the comforts of home/work/where ever you are, but my guess is you wouldn't say that to a group of soldiers you saw at a bar or on a college campus. I'm not sure why your best friend can't argue your points, that is strange. My guess is your best friend thinks your the idiot, and sees your point as ridiculious. My post was in no way meant to attack you. I think you need to realize that when you make uninformed and offensive comments people are going to take issue with them. ffs!
    Yet you still fail to argue any of my points with any sort of counterpoint. You're obviously offended by my opinions and I'm sorry for that, it was not my intent. I was merely offering my opinion to the original poster who was looking for reasons that someone would join the military.

    My best friend is a thrill seeker. He knows it's not the smartest thing in the world, just like many other things he does. He loves to fly and he sometimes pushes the limits with things for thrills. He cannot argue because while he's not poor, or ignorant to the truths of war, he realized he's kinda stupid for taking this risk. It's not anything against him personally and he realizes that. And I've spoken to some other friends of mine in the military who have admitted they were quite ignorant when they enlisted....and now they're pretty much stuck for a few more years. Sure, not everyone agrees, and sure, most soldiers won't agree because they'd have to admit they got duped.

    The fact is that the U.S. Military works insanely hard to recruit. They target poor kids and they have a well planned out scheme to make people think it's in their best interest - fooling many of the less intelligent kids. They also try to convince you that it's noble and patriotic to fight and kill for your country....or even to be killed for your country. If that's not stupid then I'm more lost than any of you even think I am.
  • Yet you still fail to argue any of my points with any sort of counterpoint. You're obviously offended by my opinions and I'm sorry for that, it was not my intent. I was merely offering my opinion to the original poster who was looking for reasons that someone would join the military.

    My best friend is a thrill seeker. He knows it's not the smartest thing in the world, just like many other things he does. He loves to fly and he sometimes pushes the limits with things for thrills. He cannot argue because while he's not poor, or ignorant to the truths of war, he realized he's kinda stupid for taking this risk. It's not anything against him personally and he realizes that. And I've spoken to some other friends of mine in the military who have admitted they were quite ignorant when they enlisted....and now they're pretty much stuck for a few more years. Sure, not everyone agrees, and sure, most soldiers won't agree because they'd have to admit they got duped.

    The fact is that the U.S. Military works insanely hard to recruit. They target poor kids and they have a well planned out scheme to make people think it's in their best interest - fooling many of the less intelligent kids. They also try to convince you that it's noble and patriotic to fight and kill for your country....or even to be killed for your country. If that's not stupid then I'm more lost than any of you even think I am.


    I was in the army and I'll admit I got duped, but not in the same way you think. Recruiters will get you on length of enlistments, duty stations, units, jobs, bonuses and things like that. But if your sitting in that office to begin with, you've already pretty much made up your mind to serve regardless. Compare it to buying a car, you've made your mind up to buying something, you just don't know what. What I don't understand is why a civilian like yourself thinks the army is "bad". And don't reference your buddy, think for yourself. Because he's bitter or thinks he's stupid, don't assume that's the norm. And try not to connect the conflicts we're currently involved in or the current administration with serving your country. Believe it or not, they don't go hand in hand.

    You know I was 18 when I joined, I didn't know shit about anything. I've been to Kosovo and Iraq and saw first hand the kind of fucked up world we live in. You can't put a price on making a difference. People take risks everywhere, I know I'm taking a risk everytime I drink deck stain. But damned if I don't still do it every Wednesday. :)
    www.myspace.com/olafvonmastadon
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    hippiemom wrote:
    Or ... power and control are just a means to obtain money.

    It works both ways, I don't think they can be separated.

    well american certainly isnt gaining financially by invading Iraq. It is costing the american government 1,000,000,000 a month. the contractors contracted to rebuild Iraq sure. people dont work for free. but by yours and don't gimme's arugment, the american government invaded Iraq becuase of money.

    or Hilter killed the jews because of money.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    hippiemom wrote:
    People don't go around invading other countries in the hopes it will make them poorer.


    they dont go around invading other countries to become richer either.
  • chopitdownchopitdown Posts: 2,222
    Really? Well I bet over 600,000 dead Iraqis proves otherwise.

    then their issue isn't blindness anymore is it
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • BinauralBinaural Posts: 1,046
    gabers wrote:
    This goes out to don't gimme no and Commy and all of you other folks out there that seem to think you must me poor and stupid to join the army. Obviously you feel no patriotism to the US whatsoever. Maybe you're not even American. That's fine. But are you too narrow minded to understand that most Americans, and that includes most liberals, do love their country and believe that serving it is a great honor? Your comments are ignorant. Frankly, anything you say from here on out has no validity in my eyes. People like you on the far left give the rest of us liberals/dems a bad name. You are the ones that make Fox News successful.

    You seem to misunderstand pariotism.
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  • I was in the army and I'll admit I got duped, but not in the same way you think. Recruiters will get you on length of enlistments, duty stations, units, jobs, bonuses and things like that. But if your sitting in that office to begin with, you've already pretty much made up your mind to serve regardless. Compare it to buying a car, you've made your mind up to buying something, you just don't know what. What I don't understand is why a civilian like yourself thinks the army is "bad". And don't reference your buddy, think for yourself. Because he's bitter or thinks he's stupid, don't assume that's the norm. And try not to connect the conflicts we're currently involved in or the current administration with serving your country. Believe it or not, they don't go hand in hand.

    You know I was 18 when I joined, I didn't know shit about anything. I've been to Kosovo and Iraq and saw first hand the kind of fucked up world we live in. You can't put a price on making a difference. People take risks everywhere, I know I'm taking a risk everytime I drink deck stain. But damned if I don't still do it every Wednesday. :)
    Well from a personal perspective, I was 18 years old sitting in some enlistment office with my life in front of me and the pen in my hand...everything ready to sign my life over to the U.S. Air Force. Then I asked a question. The same question I'd asked probably 100 times before but this time it wasn't directed at the recruiter that had spent so much time oohhing and awwwing me. No, I wasn't asking the recruiter who kept telling me, "Come on, I'm not trying to sell you a used car that leaks oil. You can trust me." This time, I was directing my question to what seemed to be the head of this enlistment office. So as I was about to sign my name on the documents they'd prepared and sat on the desk directly in front of me, I asked my question one more time.

    I looked at him and asked, "So my juvinile record won't affect me at all and I'm guaranteed the training and job as a linguist even though I shoplifted at the age of fourteen?" This guy's reaction was much different than the recruiters. He looked at me as if I were crazy and said, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, of course that will be taken into account and if you have a criminal record of any sort, juvinile or adult, then there are no guarantees." You see, a linguists often need the highest levels of security clearance, so that is why I kept asking. I wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting myself into. I put the pen down on the desk and told them I'm not joining the Air Force.

    The guy started yelling at me saying it's too late. I hadn't signed anything and I told him that. He was livid. He went on and on about how much time and money they'd spent on me. They paid for a hotel the night before. I spent most of that day testing - physically and mentally. Then he calmed down and said what a waste it would be if I didn't pursue this because I had scored the highest he'd ever seen on some test that supposedly singles out the linguist crowd. Btw, I later found that to be untrue....sure, my score was high but much higher scores were recorded in recent months.

    Not joining the military may have been the best decision I've ever made. I've made many poor decisions in my life but I'm confident that this was not one of them.

    Now, in reference to military making a change. Tell me why the fuck our troops were in the middle east and NOT in New Orleans when they could have been there making a difference? Our National Guard goddamnit. National Guard. Because nothing is what it seems, that's why. Warmongers will do what they need to do to accomplish their agendas. The safety of the American people is NOT on the agenda of the people making decisions. Sure it sounds noble to join to protect and defend your country. But it's ignorant because that's simply not how it works.

    If you want to protect and defend your country then vote responsibly and hold those accountable for such things as the disolution of Habeas Corpus accountable. If you want to be a patriot then hold this administration accountable for the 600,000 dead Iraqis...for the false and illegal imprisonment of thousands of innocent people and the torture of many of those same people. If you want to be honorable and noble then raise your voice and don't let king george put our troops in harm's way for an illegal war based on lies. That is noble. Not blindly signing a fucking piece of paper in some recruiter's office.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Again, I don't mean to offend anyone with my opinions....and I'm not attacking anyone personally for their decisions but to back me up, there really aren't many smart, rich, and well-informed people that choose to join the military. The people that join are usually lacking one of those qualities. And like I said earlier, there probably should be a distinction made between pre and post 9/11 enlistees. But while it seems the U.S. has taken soldier exploitation to higher and higher levels recently, I still believe it's been ever-present in the history of the country.


    you need to realize you are offending people with your comments. you cant assume ALL people who join the military fall under your categories based on your experinces and maybe that of a friend or 2.


    you sir are the ignorant one.
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    you need to realize you are offending people with your comments. you cant assume ALL people who join the military fall under your categories based on your experinces and maybe that of a friend or 2.


    you sir are the ignorant one.
    Nice, thanks for the name-calling. Very grown-up of you. Now I must point out that your post once again fails to counter my opinion in any valid manner. Congratulations on making a completely useless post. I encourage you to give me a valid reason for joining the military that doesn not fall into one of the three categories I mentioned. And I'm not saying that I'm right on this, it's merely my opinion.

    Btw, one of my favorite quotes (one of my good friends says it all the time - not sure who originally said it) is this - "If someone isn't trying to offend you and you're offended - you're an idiot. If someone is trying to offend you and you're offended......you're an idiot."
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Nice, thanks for the name-calling. Very grown-up of you. Now I must point out that your post once again fails to counter my opinion in any valid manner. Congratulations on making a completely useless post. I encourage you to give me a valid reason for joining the military that doesn not fall into one of the three categories I mentioned. And I'm not saying that I'm right on this, it's merely my opinion.

    Btw, one of my favorite quotes (one of my good friends says it all the time - not sure who originally said it) is this - "If someone isn't trying to offend you and you're offended - you're an idiot. If someone is trying to offend you and you're offended......you're an idiot."


    so its ok for you to call all people who join the military, poor, stupid, or ignorant? thats very grown up of you.


    and I did give you an example. Pat Tillman and millions like him DO NOT fall in any of your catergories
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    so its ok for you to call all people who join the military, poor, stupid, or ignorant? thats very grown up of you.


    and I did give you an example. Pat Tillman and millions like him DO NOT fall in any of your catergories
    Millions like him? Yeah, because there are millions of very rich white men joining the military aren't there? Goodness, lay off the pipe for a minute please. Obviously Pat Tillman wasn't poor. So this leaves either stupidity or ignorance (according to my theory). From what I've read about him he wasn't stupid but rather chose to join to "defend America" which we all know isn't what happened in Afghanistan or Iraq. The U.S. waged a war ofterror...not a war on terror. Willing participants were ignorant....or at least they were ignorant when they put their blind trust in the U.S. government, which has a long history of deception and corruption.
  • gabersgabers Posts: 2,787
    Binaural wrote:
    You seem to misunderstand pariotism.

    Okay poor choice of words but my point was that some people to feel that joining the military is patriotic and it is a way of "paying back" for the sacrifices made by so many previously. I also feel you can be a dissenter and be a patriot. There are many ways one could be a patriot, depending on the current political environment.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Millions like him? Yeah, because there are millions of very rich white men joining the military aren't there? Goodness, lay off the pipe for a minute please. Obviously Pat Tillman wasn't poor. So this leaves either stupidity or ignorance (according to my theory). From what I've read about him he wasn't stupid but rather chose to join to "defend America" which we all know isn't what happened in Afghanistan or Iraq. The U.S. waged a war ofterror...not a war on terror. Willing participants were ignorant....or at least they were ignorant when they put their blind trust in the U.S. government, which has a long history of deception and corruption.


    you still don't get it. sadly, I dont t you never will.

    do you believe that el queda attacked the US? do you believe el queda is an enemy of the US?
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    you still don't get it. sadly, I dont t you never will.

    do you believe that el queda attacked the US? do you believe el queda is an enemy of the US?
    I'm not sure what to believe. One thing I do know is that the U.S. Government has repeatedly lied about 9/11 and the events leading up to it and immediately following it. I don't subscribe to any of the theories I've heard so far, which includes the official bullshit story provided by the U.S. Government.
  • EbizzieEbizzie Posts: 240
    Nice, thanks for the name-calling. Very grown-up of you. Now I must point out that your post once again fails to counter my opinion in any valid manner. Congratulations on making a completely useless post. I encourage you to give me a valid reason for joining the military that doesn not fall into one of the three categories I mentioned. And I'm not saying that I'm right on this, it's merely my opinion.

    Btw, one of my favorite quotes (one of my good friends says it all the time - not sure who originally said it) is this - "If someone isn't trying to offend you and you're offended - you're an idiot. If someone is trying to offend you and you're offended......you're an idiot."

    You're a little weasel. Your premise is based on most military folks not being rich when you know that only 1% of the general population falls into such a category. Even if EVERY rich white kid joined the military, the numbers compared to those who aren't rich would be minuscule.

    You expect those who disagree with you to back up our opinions yet you showed no numbers to back up your opinions in the first place. That's some lazy debate on your part...ironically symptomatic of an "ignorant" debater. I could lay all sorts of ridiculous claims out on this board without offering a bit of evidence, but I wouldn't be so irresponsible to do so, unlike you.

    Look, I'm sorry you're losing your best friend to the service. I think that someone may be just a bit jealous of their friend taking the steps that you were too scared to take. It's 100% natural, but please don't take your discouragement out on those of us who actually own a set of balls.

    Thanks.
    "Worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains." -- Abraham Lincoln
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Ebizzie wrote:
    You're a little weasel. Your premise is based on most military folks not being rich when you know that only 1% of the general population falls into such a category. Even if EVERY rich white kid joined the military, the numbers compared to those who aren't rich would be minuscule.

    You expect those who disagree with you to back up our opinions yet you showed no numbers to back up your opinions in the first place. That's some lazy debate on your part...ironically symptomatic of an "ignorant" debater. I could lay all sorts of ridiculous claims out on this board without offering a bit of evidence, but I wouldn't be so irresponsible to do so, unlike you.

    Look, I'm sorry you're losing your best friend to the service. I think that someone may be just a bit jealous of their friend taking the steps that you were too scared to take. It's 100% natural, but please don't take your discouragement out on those of us who actually own a set of balls.

    Thanks.

    owned
  • Ebizzie wrote:
    You're a little weasel. Your premise is based on most military folks not being rich when you know that only 1% of the general population falls into such a category. Even if EVERY rich white kid joined the military, the numbers compared to those who aren't rich would be minuscule.

    You expect those who disagree with you to back up our opinions yet you showed no numbers to back up your opinions in the first place. That's some lazy debate on your part...ironically symptomatic of an "ignorant" debater. I could lay all sorts of ridiculous claims out on this board without offering a bit of evidence, but I wouldn't be so irresponsible to do so, unlike you.

    Look, I'm sorry you're losing your best friend to the service. I think that someone may be just a bit jealous of their friend taking the steps that you were too scared to take. It's 100% natural, but please don't take your discouragement out on those of us who actually own a set of balls.

    Thanks.

    Wow, I think you just said what a lot of people were thinking Ebbizie. I remember coming back home on leave and seeing dipshit friends of mine who weren't in school still working at my local grocer. I'm a Junior in college now after 4 years of active duty and I'm going to graduate before friends who stayed home the whole time I was gone in Germany, the Balkans and the Middle East.

    I don't get it, "don't gimme no", you yourself wanted to be in the military but unfortunately past experiences hindered your opportunity. So were you stupid, ignorant, poor? Or all three? Was linguist the only thing you were willing to do?
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  • Wow, I think you just said what a lot of people were thinking Ebbizie. I remember coming back home on leave and seeing dipshit friends of mine who weren't in school still working at my local grocer. I'm a Junior in college now after 4 years of active duty and I'm going to graduate before friends who stayed home the whole time I was gone in Germany, the Balkans and the Middle East.

    I don't get it, "don't gimme no", you yourself wanted to be in the military but unfortunately past experiences hindered your opportunity. So were you stupid, ignorant, poor? Or all three? Was linguist the only thing you were willing to do?

    Good points Mr. Skunk. By the way, how's the deck stain tonight?
  • I think "dont gimme no" has fallen victim to the common misconceptions that many in our society have concerning those who serve in our military. Many ot these left over from the Vietnam era. That lower income, undereducated, minorities and immigrants are overly represented in our ranks. This is simply not true (then or now). The only demographic that stands out as overly represented are southern white males. This has been true for a couple of generations. It is not because of southern poverty its because of the southern military tradition. Many bases and retired military all over the south. For the most part our services are a cross section of our society. As far as education goes you have to have a college education to serve as an officer or even be a successful senior enlisted. To gain any real success in the officer corp you need at least a masters.
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  • Good points Mr. Skunk. By the way, how's the deck stain tonight?


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