well IMHO power, control, world dominance is much different then money. I guess i'm just being silly.
You think Hitler killed 6 million jews because he wanted money? no, he wanted power, control, and world dominace
Of course he wanted power, control and world dominance but he also wanted money. His hatred for the jews was amongst other things fuelled by many jews in Germany and Austria being wealthy while he ended up in a homeless shelter in Vienna. Disposessing millions of jews sure didn't get him any money, eh?
You can tell a man from what he has to say - Neil & Tim Finn
They love you so badly for sharing their sorrow, so pick up that guitar and go break a heart - Kris Kristofferson
I wouldn't join the United States military at the present time. But if there was a justiafiable war for freedom, I would fight it. Classic example: The Battle of Stirling Bridge (and accompanying battles in the wars for Scottish independence). Oh yeah, and World War II.
I think you're full of it.
Could a picture be painted today that doesn't sate the prescription of those times for freedom as there is right now, right here in America, and wordlwide as there has been at any other time when freedom was so threatened? If you were true to your words you would be in kilt, blue-faced, and carrying a sword in Washington, DC this very moment.
Of course he wanted power, control and world dominance but he also wanted money. His hatred for the jews was amongst other things fuelled by many jews in Germany and Austria being wealthy while he ended up in a homeless shelter in Vienna. Disposessing millions of jews sure didn't get him any money, eh?
like I said, money is a side effect. not the main or sole reason for going to war.
You're a little weasel. Your premise is based on most military folks not being rich when you know that only 1% of the general population falls into such a category. Even if EVERY rich white kid joined the military, the numbers compared to those who aren't rich would be minuscule.
You expect those who disagree with you to back up our opinions yet you showed no numbers to back up your opinions in the first place. That's some lazy debate on your part...ironically symptomatic of an "ignorant" debater. I could lay all sorts of ridiculous claims out on this board without offering a bit of evidence, but I wouldn't be so irresponsible to do so, unlike you.
Look, I'm sorry you're losing your best friend to the service. I think that someone may be just a bit jealous of their friend taking the steps that you were too scared to take. It's 100% natural, but please don't take your discouragement out on those of us who actually own a set of balls.
Thanks.
roflmao....I'm pretty sure you're getting the lack of brain cells confused with owning a set of balls. Again, a useless post from an uninformed poster. Why don't you try to read the fucking thread next time before you post? My premise is not that these people aren't rich. That was my one response to someone saying there are millions like Pat Tillman joining the military. Read before you start calling names and shooting shit out of your ignorant ass.
roflmao....I'm pretty sure you're getting the lack of brain cells confused with owning a set of balls. Again, a useless post from an uninformed poster. Why don't you try to read the fucking thread next time before you post? My premise is not that these people aren't rich. That was my one response to someone saying there are millions like Pat Tillman joining the military. Read before you start calling names and shooting shit out of your ignorant ass.
this is why you dont get it. when I said millions like him (tillman) I meant millions of people with his courage and bravery.
Wow, I think you just said what a lot of people were thinking Ebbizie. I remember coming back home on leave and seeing dipshit friends of mine who weren't in school still working at my local grocer. I'm a Junior in college now after 4 years of active duty and I'm going to graduate before friends who stayed home the whole time I was gone in Germany, the Balkans and the Middle East.
I don't get it, "don't gimme no", you yourself wanted to be in the military but unfortunately past experiences hindered your opportunity. So were you stupid, ignorant, poor? Or all three? Was linguist the only thing you were willing to do?
Well, when I entertained the idea I was young, uninformed (ignorant), not in poverty but wasn't sure what I wanted for a career, and I was clearly stupid. No, linguist wasn't the only thing I was willing to do. But after being lied to over and over again, I was able to recognize what dirty assholes these guys can be and I wasn't willing to put my life into their hands. Turns out it was a very smart move. I now have a successful career in the business world and oh yeah, I still have my self-respect.
I think "dont gimme no" has fallen victim to the common misconceptions that many in our society have concerning those who serve in our military. Many ot these left over from the Vietnam era. That lower income, undereducated, minorities and immigrants are overly represented in our ranks. This is simply not true (then or now). The only demographic that stands out as overly represented are southern white males. This has been true for a couple of generations. It is not because of southern poverty its because of the southern military tradition. Many bases and retired military all over the south. For the most part our services are a cross section of our society. As far as education goes you have to have a college education to serve as an officer or even be a successful senior enlisted. To gain any real success in the officer corp you need at least a masters.
Are you trying to tell me that the military doesn't target young kids in poverty? If it weren't so sad it would be laughable.
this is why you dont get it. when I said millions like him (tillman) I meant millions of people with his courage and bravery.
I pity people like you and your mindset.
But it's uninformed courage and bravery, which I prefer to call stupidity. It's like all these people who vote but don't know a goddamn thing about the candidates. I'd rather they not vote than to support someone they know nothing about. Think about that one jlew, it's a pretty good analogy.
But it's uninformed courage and bravery, which I prefer to call stupidity. It's like all these people who vote but don't know a goddamn thing about the candidates. I'd rather they not vote than to support someone they know nothing about. Think about that one jlew, it's a pretty good analogy.
many times people vote based on their party affiliation. when someone is a republican or democrat they know something (not nothing) about a candidate.
you fail to realize other functions of the military besides walking on the battlefield and shooting someone who you feel is not the enemy. (el queda). which is its own stupidity, yours, seperately.
you only seem to base your logic on the current situation in Iraq. do these people fall into the same category if they enlist during peace time?
you cant call someone stupid or ignorant because they dont make the same decisions you would make. and then turn around and say, "o well im not trying to offend anyone, they are just stupid dumbfuck ignorant people, its just my opinon no offense."
many times people vote based on their party affiliation. when someone is a republican or democrat they know something (not nothing) about a candidate.
you fail to realize other functions of the military besides walking on the battlefield and shooting someone who you feel is not the enemy. (el queda). which is its own stupidity, yours, seperately.
you only seem to base your logic on the current situation in Iraq. do these people fall into the same category if they enlist during peace time?
you cant call someone stupid or ignorant because they dont make the same decisions you would make. and then turn around and say, "o well im not trying to offend anyone, they are just stupid dumbfuck ignorant people, its just my opinon no offense."
I know that killing innocent Iraqi civilians is not the only function of the U.S. Military. But history tells us that the U.S. uses its military over and over again for questionable (at best) functions. To join out of pride and honor for this country is ignorant. There is no pride and honor in terrorizing the world and I'm not only referring to Iraq.
We clearly cannot agree. And the difference between us is that I don't think you're stupid. I think you're blinded by all the flags being flown on your street and by this administration ramming their own false definition of patriotism down everyone's throat. Maybe I'm wrong and if anyone's offended then so be it. This is how I feel....
I know that killing innocent Iraqi civilians is not the only function of the U.S. Military. But history tells us that the U.S. uses its military over and over again for questionable (at best) functions. To join out of pride and honor for this country is ignorant. There is no pride and honor in terrorizing the world and I'm not only referring to Iraq.
We clearly cannot agree. And the difference between us is that I don't think you're stupid. I think you're blinded by all the flags being flown on your street and by this administration ramming their own false definition of patriotism down everyone's throat. Maybe I'm wrong and if anyone's offended then so be it. This is how I feel....
and may god bless america.
just sucks that there are brave people out there defending you and your freedom to openly ridicule these people. without those brave and courageous people in the military you and I might be forced to read the koran 6 times a day.
yes we dont agree. and yes you are correct in our differences. you dont think i'm stupid and I think you are. if your offended, so be it.
You know, WWII is over. All of the people who orchestrated it, and most of the people who fought in it, are dead. We don't get to rest on their laurels forever. Those people may have been brave, courageous, honorable and patriotic, but they are gone. On the other hand, there are people who were involved with Vietnam, Panama, etc. that are still in power, and they are cut from a very different cloth than FDR.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
You know, WWII is over. All of the people who orchestrated it, and most of the people who fought in it, are dead. We don't get to rest on their laurels forever. Those people may have been brave, courageous, honorable and patriotic, but they are gone. On the other hand, there are people who were involved with Vietnam, Panama, etc. that are still in power, and they are cut from a very different cloth than FDR.
roflmao....I'm pretty sure you're getting the lack of brain cells confused with owning a set of balls. Again, a useless post from an uninformed poster. Why don't you try to read the fucking thread next time before you post? My premise is not that these people aren't rich. That was my one response to someone saying there are millions like Pat Tillman joining the military. Read before you start calling names and shooting shit out of your ignorant ass.
Again, I don't mean to offend anyone with my opinions....and I'm not attacking anyone personally for their decisions but to back me up, there really aren't many smart, rich, and well-informed people that choose to join the military. The people that join are usually lacking one of those qualities.
which was long before Pat Tillman was ever brought into the debate.
You still haven't offered any evidence of your claims. You can say I'm just another ignorant vet spouting shit out of his ass, but you seem genuinely bitter about military service, especially for someone who tried to enlist.
I'm also curious how our soldiers in Iraq, much less you, are able to differentiate between enemies in civilian clothes and civilians in civilian clothes. Who is deciding which deaths are of a civilian nature? How do they know? Please, enlighten us oh wise non-military man.
"Worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains." -- Abraham Lincoln
Are you trying to tell me that the military doesn't target young kids in poverty? If it weren't so sad it would be laughable.
The military targets the enemy, military recruiters try to enlist those who would make good candidates for service. It does them no good to persue those who would not qualify or excel in this endevour. Recruiters can be very creative but they are not targeting any particular group except for the young ,smart and athletic. Only about 20% of the age eligible citizens of this nation are even qualified to serve because of the following reasons health ( size weight fitness disease etc.), legal (felony conviction, or pending suits etc.), mental aptitude, ability to adapt and others.
This has always puzzled me. I have known a few people who have joined the army and I have never understood, or indeed supported them in, their decision. I have never understood how the majority of people can do it. There are a number of stereotypical reasons for joining; "They're paying for my degree", "The money is good", "I'll get to see the world" or the classic "I'm defending my country". The reason I find it hard to understand these reasons is because in most cases people take for granted the fact that at some point in their army career they may have to kill someone and that is such a huge thing. I mean how you do agree to be potentially responsible for taking a life and be so blase about the agreement? How can you be prepared to kill a stranger for a stranger? I'm half venting, half trying to generate discussion. Anyone got any experiences of this or any thoughts?
PEACE
Um... Balls?
That's my answer.
Other than that I'm not real sure what else there is to understand.
"Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
I know that killing innocent Iraqi civilians is not the only function of the U.S. Military. But history tells us that the U.S. uses its military over and over again for questionable (at best) functions. To join out of pride and honor for this country is ignorant. There is no pride and honor in terrorizing the world and I'm not only referring to Iraq.
We clearly cannot agree. And the difference between us is that I don't think you're stupid. I think you're blinded by all the flags being flown on your street and by this administration ramming their own false definition of patriotism down everyone's throat. Maybe I'm wrong and if anyone's offended then so be it. This is how I feel....
You want to know why you're wrong? You've got no credibility. You weren't in combat, you werent in the military and you base your argument on what other people tell you. You seem bitter becaue you didn't join, I'm sorry for that, but you're gonna have to move on and redirect your hate away from veterans for gods sakes.
And forget Iraq for a second, how did you feel about the balkans or somalia, or the first gulf war? Where they worthy of your pride and honour? Shouldn't they have been somebody else's problem?
I'm not blinded by patriotism, I completely understand the "rally around the flag" effect in politics, but I'm also a combat veteran who knows a little bit more on the subject than yourself. And I joined pre 9/11 too.
And with the approval rating of the president and the war in Iraq don't you think 9/11's lost it's lustor just a bit over the last 5 years. You could have given this guy shit right after 9/11. But now your argument is weak.
You want to know why you're wrong? You've got no credibility. You weren't in combat, you werent in the military and you base your argument on what other people tell you. You seem bitter becaue you didn't join, I'm sorry for that, but you're gonna have to move on and redirect your hate away from veterans for gods sakes.
And forget Iraq for a second, how did you feel about the balkans or somalia, or the first gulf war? Where they worthy of your pride and honour? Shouldn't they have been somebody else's problem?
I'm not blinded by patriotism, I completely understand the "rally around the flag" effect in politics, but I'm also a combat veteran who knows a little bit more on the subject than yourself. And I joined pre 9/11 too.
And with the approval rating of the president and the war in Iraq don't you think 9/11's lost it's lustor just a bit over the last 5 years. You could have given this guy shit right after 9/11. But now your argument is weak.
A big, fat, fucking Amen.
"Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
You want to know why you're wrong? You've got no credibility. You weren't in combat, you werent in the military and you base your argument on what other people tell you. You seem bitter becaue you didn't join, I'm sorry for that, but you're gonna have to move on and redirect your hate away from veterans for gods sakes.
And forget Iraq for a second, how did you feel about the balkans or somalia, or the first gulf war? Where they worthy of your pride and honour? Shouldn't they have been somebody else's problem?
I'm not blinded by patriotism, I completely understand the "rally around the flag" effect in politics, but I'm also a combat veteran who knows a little bit more on the subject than yourself. And I joined pre 9/11 too.
And with the approval rating of the president and the war in Iraq don't you think 9/11's lost it's lustor just a bit over the last 5 years. You could have given this guy shit right after 9/11. But now your argument is weak.
Bitter because I didn't join? That's insane. I've never directed my hate toward veterans. The U.S. government puts them in harm's way for selfish and very immoral reasons. I hate the government for that, not the veterans, ffs. I just wish there weren't so many misguided kids out there willing to blindly sign their lives over to the mass killing machine that is the U.S. military. If people read up on American history they'd realize that the military is anything but noble.
Bitter because I didn't join? That's insane. I've never directed my hate toward veterans. The U.S. government puts them in harm's way for selfish and very immoral reasons. I hate the government for that, not the veterans, ffs. I just wish there weren't so many misguided kids out there willing to blindly sign their lives over to the mass killing machine that is the U.S. military. If people read up on American history they'd realize that the military is anything but noble.
Comments
Of course he wanted power, control and world dominance but he also wanted money. His hatred for the jews was amongst other things fuelled by many jews in Germany and Austria being wealthy while he ended up in a homeless shelter in Vienna. Disposessing millions of jews sure didn't get him any money, eh?
They love you so badly for sharing their sorrow, so pick up that guitar and go break a heart - Kris Kristofferson
I think you're full of it.
Could a picture be painted today that doesn't sate the prescription of those times for freedom as there is right now, right here in America, and wordlwide as there has been at any other time when freedom was so threatened? If you were true to your words you would be in kilt, blue-faced, and carrying a sword in Washington, DC this very moment.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
like I said, money is a side effect. not the main or sole reason for going to war.
this is why you dont get it. when I said millions like him (tillman) I meant millions of people with his courage and bravery.
I pity people like you and your mindset.
many times people vote based on their party affiliation. when someone is a republican or democrat they know something (not nothing) about a candidate.
you fail to realize other functions of the military besides walking on the battlefield and shooting someone who you feel is not the enemy. (el queda). which is its own stupidity, yours, seperately.
you only seem to base your logic on the current situation in Iraq. do these people fall into the same category if they enlist during peace time?
you cant call someone stupid or ignorant because they dont make the same decisions you would make. and then turn around and say, "o well im not trying to offend anyone, they are just stupid dumbfuck ignorant people, its just my opinon no offense."
We clearly cannot agree. And the difference between us is that I don't think you're stupid. I think you're blinded by all the flags being flown on your street and by this administration ramming their own false definition of patriotism down everyone's throat. Maybe I'm wrong and if anyone's offended then so be it. This is how I feel....
and may god bless america.
just sucks that there are brave people out there defending you and your freedom to openly ridicule these people. without those brave and courageous people in the military you and I might be forced to read the koran 6 times a day.
yes we dont agree. and yes you are correct in our differences. you dont think i'm stupid and I think you are. if your offended, so be it.
ignorance is bliss. have a nice day.
Brave.
Courageous.
Honorable.
Patriotic.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=223290
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_in_Europe_Day
Exactly
Brave.
Courageous.
Honorable.
Patriotic
last I checked Vietnam is over too.
thats great. besides the point really. people who served in all of these wars are brave and courageous.
not stupid and ignorant.
actually, you said
which was long before Pat Tillman was ever brought into the debate.
You still haven't offered any evidence of your claims. You can say I'm just another ignorant vet spouting shit out of his ass, but you seem genuinely bitter about military service, especially for someone who tried to enlist.
I'm also curious how our soldiers in Iraq, much less you, are able to differentiate between enemies in civilian clothes and civilians in civilian clothes. Who is deciding which deaths are of a civilian nature? How do they know? Please, enlighten us oh wise non-military man.
The military targets the enemy, military recruiters try to enlist those who would make good candidates for service. It does them no good to persue those who would not qualify or excel in this endevour. Recruiters can be very creative but they are not targeting any particular group except for the young ,smart and athletic. Only about 20% of the age eligible citizens of this nation are even qualified to serve because of the following reasons health ( size weight fitness disease etc.), legal (felony conviction, or pending suits etc.), mental aptitude, ability to adapt and others.
1998 Seattle 7-21
2000 Seattle 11-06
2003 Seattle Benaroya 10-22
2005 Gorge 9-1
2006 Gorge 7-23
Um... Balls?
That's my answer.
Other than that I'm not real sure what else there is to understand.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
You want to know why you're wrong? You've got no credibility. You weren't in combat, you werent in the military and you base your argument on what other people tell you. You seem bitter becaue you didn't join, I'm sorry for that, but you're gonna have to move on and redirect your hate away from veterans for gods sakes.
And forget Iraq for a second, how did you feel about the balkans or somalia, or the first gulf war? Where they worthy of your pride and honour? Shouldn't they have been somebody else's problem?
I'm not blinded by patriotism, I completely understand the "rally around the flag" effect in politics, but I'm also a combat veteran who knows a little bit more on the subject than yourself. And I joined pre 9/11 too.
And with the approval rating of the president and the war in Iraq don't you think 9/11's lost it's lustor just a bit over the last 5 years. You could have given this guy shit right after 9/11. But now your argument is weak.
A big, fat, fucking Amen.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
What about my question about past conflicts?