What is God?

A Surprise Left · December 2006

the face wrote:

But they could not give the death sentence which is why he was turned over to the Romans to commit the actual act.

Thats exactly right, only the Romans could carry out the death sentence. According to the gospels it seems as if Pilate was in a no-win situation. Either he sends an innocent man to death and have that on his conscience. Or he he refuses and the Jews continue to rebel and lose his post and perhaps suffer worse consequences.

hippiemom · December 2006

newagehippie wrote:

It's all the same....right? :cool:

It's not the first time, I'm sure it won't be the last, haha. It must be because all us hippies look alike

sponger · December 2006

A Surprise Left wrote:

bingo.....but son of God and God are one and the same (to most people under the christian umbrella anyway, I know there are exceptions). Jesus was claiming to be able to forgive sins and under Jewish law only Yahweh had the power and the right to forgive sins. So if Jesus said this knowing he was not God he committed blasphemy and under jewish law could be given a death sentence legally.

Jewish law is irrelevant to the teachings of jesus. He was a jew, but he was not trying to re-invent judaism. His interpretation of "god" was his own interpretation. Therefore, he was claming to be the son of god, not god himself.

sponger · December 2006

newagehippie wrote:

Your teacher had a different story than mine, of course...they all do.

Romans were living under Pagan beliefs, Jesus didn't just "come along", Constatine knew that 1/2 of his kingdom were pagans, and 1/2 were Christian, with Christianity being the "new" and upcoming religion. He worried that a religious divide could cause major problems with Peace, therefore he re-wrote the bible, included pagan ideas, and thus everyone was happy.......

I'm not talking about after post-jesus. I'm talking about pre-jesus. Roman emperors were worshipped as gods at that time. So, Jesus came along and said, wtf, nobody is god except god. People liked that idea because they weren't too fond of roman emperors.

miller8966 · December 2006

sponger wrote:

Jewish law is irrelevant to the teachings of jesus. He was a jew, but he was not trying to re-invent judaism. His interpretation of "god" was his own interpretation. Therefore, he was claming to be the son of god, not god himself.

I think jesus new that the jews got it wrong..and he was there to correct their beliefs.

sponger · December 2006

It is my opinion that when we tell lies to one another, we do two things: We convince ourselves that we are above the person we are lying to, and we deviate just a little bit from reality. As the saying goes, when we lie, we are also lying to ourselves.

Eventually, these miniscule deviations from reality and moments of condescencion upon our fellow man add up and take a toll on our minds. We begin to believe that there is such a thing as "superiority" and we've learned to support that belief with deviations from reality.

So, to help maintain a balance, the mind creates a "god". "God" is the ultimate superiority trip and the ultimate deviation from reality. God is whatever people want him to be.

And that's what people are talking about when they say that they "feel" god around them. What they're feeling is the superiority trip from all of the lies that they've told and all of the condescending beliefs that they've held.

And that's where the "purity" of "holiness" comes from. People lie because they want to uphold an image of perfection. That feeling of perfection translates into "holiness".

If you remember the movie 2001, it wasn't until the computer Hal was asked to lie for the government that he ended up losing his grip on reality. If Hal was programmed to believe in a god, then he probably would've been able to sustain himself. He would've used the "god" rationale to justify his "superiority" to those he was lying to. He would've said, "Well, the people I am lying to are beneath me for whatever "holy" reason I so choose to believe at this time." That is the foundation for religion. It is the ultimate justification for feeling superior to others. It is the "I am more deserving of life than thou art" justification that would've helped Hal continue his masquerade without going insane.

sponger · December 2006

miller8966 wrote:

I think jesus new that the jews got it wrong..and he was there to correct their beliefs.

By getting it wrong, I'm assuming you mean that they didn't figure out a more all-inclusive method for gaining followers.

A Surprise Left · December 2006

sponger wrote:

Jewish law is irrelevant to the teachings of jesus. He was a jew, but he was not trying to re-invent judaism. His interpretation of "god" was his own interpretation. Therefore, he was claming to be the son of god, not god himself.

Jesus according to the NT was an expert on Jewish law and was not trying to change anything about Jewish law but believed he was the fulfilment of it. The Pharisees at various times called him "teacher" and they regulary debated him and try to goad him into saying something against the law.

the face · December 2006

miller8966 wrote:

I think jesus new that the jews got it wrong..and he was there to correct their beliefs.

Where do you get this crap from. He NEW the jews got IT wrong...What's with it? He also promised to come back. Have you heard from the guy lately?

the face · December 2006

sponger wrote:

By getting it wrong, I'm assuming you mean that they didn't figure out a more all-inclusive method for gaining followers.

The Jews, a tiny band of people living amongst a sea of huge empires never tried to export its views to others. Judiasm forbids prosthelitizing unlike the other major religions. For the Jews God was a concept developed to help them cope with their powerlessness and to give them strength. This little idea of theirs......monotheism.....was later stolen and exported to the pagan lands of Europe and Central Asia and became Christianity under the distorted and manipulated word of a Rabbi - Jesus. This little idea was later ripped off again by the wandering arab hordes and became Islam. In a nutshell...

ONCE DEVIDED · December 2006

God Is Social Control
M.y.t.h.
Beleif In A Game
Controls That Keeps Us In Our Box Of Fears
We Never Listen Voice Inside So Drowned Out

pieceofdust · December 2006

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

God Is Social Control
M.y.t.h.
Beleif In A Game
Controls That Keeps Us In Our Box Of Fears
We Never Listen Voice Inside So Drowned Out

I don't see where your argument is coming from. I'm not even sure you are open to discussion, so what is this point of posting that? If you want actual discussion, come with ideas and a reason for holding the ideas you hold. Instead you have just posted a belief as if it is not up for argument and given no reasons for holding such a belief...which means that your argument thus far is unreasonable. So come on, discuss ideas.

Collin · December 2006

pieceofdust wrote:

I don't see where your argument is coming from. I'm not even sure you are open to discussion, so what is this point of posting that? If you want actual discussion, come with ideas and a reason for holding the ideas you hold. Instead you have just posted a belief as if it is not up for argument and given no reasons for holding such a belief...which means that your argument thus far is unreasonable. So come on, discuss ideas.

Yield; track 2; faithfull.

angelica · December 2006

sponger wrote:

And that's what people are talking about when they say that they "feel" god around them. What they're feeling is the superiority trip from all of the lies that they've told and all of the condescending beliefs that they've held.

:eek:

I'm guessing that it's safe to say you haven't had a spiritual experience in your life, sponger.

pieceofdust · December 2006

Collin wrote:

Yield; track 2; faithfull.

Yes, I'm aware of that. But I'm unaware of how quoting poetry logically disproves the idea of God. Poetry normally already is speaking from an assumed common ground. In logical argument the point is to try and find this common groud. Thus, I fail to see how quoting a poetry about God contributes to a logical argument.

ONCE DEVIDED · December 2006

pieceofdust wrote:

I don't see where your argument is coming from. I'm not even sure you are open to discussion, so what is this point of posting that? If you want actual discussion, come with ideas and a reason for holding the ideas you hold. Instead you have just posted a belief as if it is not up for argument and given no reasons for holding such a belief...which means that your argument thus far is unreasonable. So come on, discuss ideas.

God/religon is social control, Christians (for eg) beleive in heaven and hell. The goal Of eternal heavenly afterlife through doing the right thing. Or the eternal pits of of hell for doing the wrong thing.
Many other religon are the same. The creators/controlers of society use the fear of gods wrath/karma to keep society at least in a semi-balanced sort of way. The fear of police and penalty contorls the rest.
Examine societys where people have hailed men as god. The Egypitians and the north koreans for example. Smaller societys and groups as well.
All in all ssocial control is a good thing. Encouraging people to be at peace with one another is a good thing in my books. I just wish more would practice what they preach.

Hope that was ok didnt want to offend

Byrnzie · December 2006

sponger wrote:

It is my opinion that when we tell lies to one another, we do two things: We convince ourselves that we are above the person we are lying to, and we deviate just a little bit from reality. As the saying goes, when we lie, we are also lying to ourselves.

Eventually, these miniscule deviations from reality and moments of condescencion upon our fellow man add up and take a toll on our minds. We begin to believe that there is such a thing as "superiority" and we've learned to support that belief with deviations from reality.

So, to help maintain a balance, the mind creates a "god". "God" is the ultimate superiority trip and the ultimate deviation from reality. God is whatever people want him to be.

And that's what people are talking about when they say that they "feel" god around them. What they're feeling is the superiority trip from all of the lies that they've told and all of the condescending beliefs that they've held.

And that's where the "purity" of "holiness" comes from. People lie because they want to uphold an image of perfection. That feeling of perfection translates into "holiness".

If you remember the movie 2001, it wasn't until the computer Hal was asked to lie for the government that he ended up losing his grip on reality. If Hal was programmed to believe in a god, then he probably would've been able to sustain himself. He would've used the "god" rationale to justify his "superiority" to those he was lying to. He would've said, "Well, the people I am lying to are beneath me for whatever "holy" reason I so choose to believe at this time." That is the foundation for religion. It is the ultimate justification for feeling superior to others. It is the "I am more deserving of life than thou art" justification that would've helped Hal continue his masquerade without going insane.

That's a pretty interesting theory. I take it the 'god' you're referring to is the Christian God?

Byrnzie · December 2006

the face wrote:

This little idea of theirs......monotheism.....was later stolen and exported to the pagan lands of Europe and Central Asia and became Christianity under the distorted and manipulated word of a Rabbi - Jesus. This little idea was later ripped off again by the wandering arab hordes and became Islam. In a nutshell...

The first Monotheistic religion was the religion of the Aten in Ancient Egypt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atenism

Many historians and independent scholars have declared the pharoah Akhenaten (1353 BC-1336 BC or 1351 BC–1334 BC) to be the historical figure of Moses.

pieceofdust · December 2006

ONCE DEVIDED wrote:

God/religon is social control, Christians (for eg) beleive in heaven and hell. The goal Of eternal heavenly afterlife through doing the right thing. Or the eternal pits of of hell for doing the wrong thing.
Many other religon are the same. The creators/controlers of society use the fear of gods wrath/karma to keep society at least in a semi-balanced sort of way. The fear of police and penalty contorls the rest.
Examine societys where people have hailed men as god. The Egypitians and the north koreans for example. Smaller societys and groups as well.
All in all ssocial control is a good thing. Encouraging people to be at peace with one another is a good thing in my books. I just wish more would practice what they preach.

Hope that was ok didnt want to offend

I understand what you are saying, and somewhat agree, but not totally. Even if this is how people have used religion, is this a knock against religion itself? Or is this a knock against some of the people who tend to believe in it. I completely agree that some people who claim to be religious are the most evil people to exist, as they use something that is suppose to be the ultimate good in order to commit evil. However, just because there is a misuse of religion does not mean that religion itself it reducible to simply thise use or purpose. In the past I have shared your view and your view only. However, meeting authentic religious people, as well as reading brilliant writers such as CS Lewis have opened my eyes to the fact that simply because something is used wrong does not make the thing itself wrong.

humanlight · December 2006

I think this whole conversation can be summed up by using the greatest queston known to man: what came first the chicken or the egg?

I mean really, did we invent God, or did God invent us?

What is God?

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