World would be worse off without faith...

angelica wrote:

I like to think that many people have a "faith" that science will continue to uncover advancement upon advancement. I like to think that many people realize that all those advancements exist in possibilities and potential at this time, and it is the limits to our thinking at this time that makes it so that we cannot yet access future advancement. Those who will make such discoveries will do so based on a faith that they are possible and there to be found.

This is a fine line that you speak of.

A man who has faith in agriculture will be lucky to grow anything. A man who understands agriculture, however, can feed a town.

angelica wrote:

Remember that in order to learn to understand agriculture, one begins with a faith that it can be done. If one believes that a lack of agriculture is all there is, they close their mind to understanding agriculture.

Hehe...the latter would require just as much "faith" as the former, angelica.

In order learn to understand agriculture, one begins with the knowledge that food grows and is produced by the earth. It continues with the understanding of how those things happen.

For example with psychiatry, when people put their faith in it's hands (science) they somehow seem to lose the perspective that there is much beyond what we know. Because we don't yet know or understand is VERY different than being that is does not exist.

You just stated the problem -- when people put faith in science they've demonstrated a lack of understanding of science's abilities and limitations as an objective pursuit based on human knowledge, not faith-based potential. It's no different than asking your brain surgeon why he doesn't just do a brain transplant because, hey, it should work, right?

All good science puts evidence before understanding, whereas all good faith puts understanding before evidence. Faith is an unreasonable short-cut to knowledge.

That said, I don't disagree with the core of your point that much faith finds its way into the world of science. My argument, however, is that faith stands contradictory to good science.

even flow? wrote:

May have been Jesus' too.

Jesus's last words were, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Pretty common sentiment in the world of faith......

soulsinging wrote:

im pretty sure those were the last words of david koresh!

This is hysterical to me given the context of this conversation!

farfromglorified wrote:

Hehe...the latter would require just as much "faith" as the former, angelica.

In order learn to understand agriculture, one begins with the knowledge that food grows and is produced by the earth. It continues with the understanding of how those things happen.



You just stated the problem -- when people put faith in science they've demonstrated a lack of understanding of science's abilities and limitations as an objective pursuit based on human knowledge, not faith-based potential. It's no different than asking your brain surgeon why he doesn't just do a brain transplant because, hey, it should work, right?

All good science puts evidence before understanding, whereas all good faith puts understanding before evidence. Faith is an unreasonable short-cut to knowledge.

That said, I don't disagree with the core of your point that much faith finds its way into the world of science. My argument, however, is that faith stands contradictory to good science.

Interesting, ffg. I hate that I have to go in a few minutes, because I could discuss this topic for hours.

I agree with your first statement. I think a lot of folks blindly believe scientific concepts without understanding 'limitations' as it applies to science. I also think that the extrapolation of a scientist is more dangerous than those of the religious, because those extrapolations are presented as absolute fact of the 'most likely' and presented as such, where as most people understand theories presented by the religious are based on faith. I feel science should be held to a higher standard. I would also say that science alone can not answer the question of the origin of life, although some scientists do extrapolate the concept of abiogenesis as the most likely cause, although there is no empirical proof of this. So, yes 'All good science puts evidence before understanding'.

Ahh, I have to go...........I will just say (and I've said this before) if there was no religion, the ignorant would find something else to do ignorantly. Science damn, you!

farfromglorified wrote:

Jesus's last words were, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Pretty common sentiment in the world of faith......

Thanks for the lesson.

So we are told that god put it's son here to teach us a lesson and didn't tell the poor boy he was going to be smacked around? A little stretch there I think.

even flow? wrote:

Thanks for the lesson.

So we are told that god put it's son here to teach us a lesson and didn't tell the poor boy he was going to be smacked around? A little stretch there I think.

Yeah, apparently Jesus was out of that loop. And like most people of faith, they're constantly looking at the world around them in confusion, asking "why" to something they can't even see. Such is the price of solace.

soulsinging wrote:

you're clearly not a parent, if you tell your kids you're going to smack them around they try to run and it makes it a real pain to catch them. god was just showing us proper parenting.

Show me a parent who just turns the blind eye as their son is getting the shit beat out of him. Must be a joker up in the great place we call the heavens.

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