Russian Forces Invade Georgia
Comments
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MrSmith wrote:whats the point of mentioning Israel's arms sales here? They are pretty insignificant compared with most of Georgia's dealings with the rest of the west, or at least of no special interest to anyone not obsessed with hating on Israel. its almost completely off topic, just admit it.
and if Israel's intent was to arm Georgians to launch a war with Russia (again, no proof in the article), it was pretty poor planning on their part. unless the purpose was to turn Georgia into a Russian satellite again.
Agree with this poster. Totally off-topic.
As for the Russian invasion itself ... I really hope the Ruskies do not try to take the Georgian capital. My honest view is that the U.S. should "sell" some A-10s to Georgia, and any Russian armoured column advancing on Tbilisi should be obliterated. If the pilots of said A-10s happen to have somewhat American features, so be it. The Russians have no business on Georgian soil, unless that business is to strangle democracy.0 -
The U.S. and EU is heavily invested in the Repubic of Georgia, because the U.K and the U.S. financed the building of the BTC pipeline from 2002 to 2005. Its about access and security to what is thought to be the world's largest oil reserve, the Caspin Sea.
Although Georgia is a member of the UN it is not a member of NATO or the EU, however, the U.S. military has been present in Georgia since 2002 to secure the construction of the BTC pipeline.
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Israel`s Stake in the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline
May 23, 2006
Michel Chossudovsky
http://www.peuplesmonde.com/article.php3?id_article=527
...The most important strategic corridor is the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil and gas pipelines dominated by British Petroleum (BP). This corridor not only integrates the Caspian Sea to the Eastern Mediterranean, it is also slated to channel Central Asian oil and gas to a strategic pipeline corridor controlled by Israel.
Note: This Euro-Asian Transportation Corridor study has been contracted to KBR. It would control the water, gas, electricity and oil flow to the Far East countries, including North Korea, China and Japan.
Did Bush, Cheney and the Baker/Kissinger group not see this as a receipe for war!!!!!
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Home
Aug. 10, 2008
http://www.kommersant.com/p-13072/South_Ossetia/
Dead Mercenaries Found in Tskhinvali
Authorities in the unrecognized republic of South Ossetia claim that dark-skinned mercenaries took part in the attack on Tskhinvali, reports RIA Novosti, citing representative of the South Ossetian president in Russia Dmitry Medoev. He said there were bodies of many Georgian soldiers on the streets on Tskhinvali. “There were blacks among the dead, who were probably either mercenaries or instructors in the Georgian armed forces,” Medoev said.
South Ossetian President Eduard Kokoity had said earlier that mercenaries were fighting with the Georgian forces. That information has not been confirmed in Tbilisi.
Latest information indicates that the Georgian Foreign Ministry has announced the withdrawal of its forces from the conflict zone. Russian peacekeepers have not confirmed that information, however.
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Home
Aug. 11, 2008
U.S. Military Instructors Command Hirelings in Georgia
Thousands of mercenaries are fighting for Georgia in this burning conflict with South Ossetia. They are commanded by the U.S. military instructors, RIA Novosti reported with reference to a high-ranked officer of Russia’s military intelligence.
“From 2,500 to 3,000 mercenaries fight against Russia’s peacekeepers on behalf of Georgia,” the unnamed source said. Amid them are the natives of Ukraine, some Baltic states and the Caucasus regions.
The U.S. military instructors directly command and coordinate actions of mercenaries without being involved in actual fighting, the source specified. According to intelligence data, there are roughly 1,000 military instructors of the United States in Georgia.
Task force of Russia has annihilated a few groups of mercenaries. Some of mercenaries have been captured, and investigators are working with them, the source said.SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.0 -
raszputini wrote:I'm certainly not an expert on this part of the world, but form what I've seen, the Russians are kind of justified here. South Ossetia shares a pretty common heritage with the Russian people. The South Ossetians want to claim independence and actually wanted to be part of the Russian Federation. The Russians already had peacekeepers on the ground because the are has been prone to violence. Georgia tried to forcibly keep the Ossetians from claiming independence. The Russians then offered "fast-track" citizenship to S Ossetians that wanted it, both as a reason to be there and as an expression of their interest in being in the Federation.
In this situation the Russians are actually on the side of of "self-determination", although that probably isn't THEIR motivation. This is what the majority of South Ossetians seem to want.
The US will stay out of this one. We'll argue the Russians suck for doing this to detract from the shitty thyings we are doing. The reality is that we don't care. Now, Georgia on the other hand.......there's a million barrels of oil a day pumped through Georgia, so we'll HAVE to defend the "democratic" Georgians if it escalates, but it shouldn't.
The Russians are not justified when it comes to extending the war beyond South Ossetian territory and onto Georgian (per se) soil ... I can MAYBE see the "peacekeeping" argument, insofar as pushing the Georgians out of South Ossetia ... But then pull back. Attempting to destroy the Georgian military has nothing to do with protecting South Ossetia and everything to do with giving the West the metaphorical finger.0 -
puremagic wrote:The U.S. and EU is heavily invested in the Repubic of Georgia, because the U.K and the U.S. financed the building of the BTC pipeline from 2002 to 2005. Its about access and security to what is thought to be the world's largest oil reserve, the Caspin Sea.
Although Georgia is a member of the UN it is not a member of NATO or the EU, however, the U.S. military has been present in Georgia since 2002 to secure the construction of the BTC pipeline.
==============================
Israel`s Stake in the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline
May 23, 2006
Michel Chossudovsky
http://www.peuplesmonde.com/article.php3?id_article=527
...The most important strategic corridor is the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil and gas pipelines dominated by British Petroleum (BP). This corridor not only integrates the Caspian Sea to the Eastern Mediterranean, it is also slated to channel Central Asian oil and gas to a strategic pipeline corridor controlled by Israel.
Note: This Euro-Asian Transportation Corridor study has been contracted to KBR. It would control the water, gas, electricity and oil flow to the Far East countries, including North Korea, China and Japan.
Did Bush, Cheney and the Baker/Kissinger group not see this as a receipe for war!!!!!
============
Home
Aug. 10, 2008
http://www.kommersant.com/p-13072/South_Ossetia/
Dead Mercenaries Found in Tskhinvali
Authorities in the unrecognized republic of South Ossetia claim that dark-skinned mercenaries took part in the attack on Tskhinvali, reports RIA Novosti, citing representative of the South Ossetian president in Russia Dmitry Medoev. He said there were bodies of many Georgian soldiers on the streets on Tskhinvali. “There were blacks among the dead, who were probably either mercenaries or instructors in the Georgian armed forces,” Medoev said.
South Ossetian President Eduard Kokoity had said earlier that mercenaries were fighting with the Georgian forces. That information has not been confirmed in Tbilisi.
Latest information indicates that the Georgian Foreign Ministry has announced the withdrawal of its forces from the conflict zone. Russian peacekeepers have not confirmed that information, however.
=========================
Home
Aug. 11, 2008
U.S. Military Instructors Command Hirelings in Georgia
Thousands of mercenaries are fighting for Georgia in this burning conflict with South Ossetia. They are commanded by the U.S. military instructors, RIA Novosti reported with reference to a high-ranked officer of Russia’s military intelligence.
“From 2,500 to 3,000 mercenaries fight against Russia’s peacekeepers on behalf of Georgia,” the unnamed source said. Amid them are the natives of Ukraine, some Baltic states and the Caucasus regions.
The U.S. military instructors directly command and coordinate actions of mercenaries without being involved in actual fighting, the source specified. According to intelligence data, there are roughly 1,000 military instructors of the United States in Georgia.
Task force of Russia has annihilated a few groups of mercenaries. Some of mercenaries have been captured, and investigators are working with them, the source said.
None of this is all that shocking, and in all honesty, it's hard to pity the Russians, who have the numbers and the firepower to completely wipe out the Georgian military, even if the latter has better soldiers. The Georgians will kill a lot of Russians if this thing keeps escalating. But they'd lose a war in the end, advisors or no.
And these mystery blacks? They could be from anywhere.0 -
completely off topic? now, you're definitely way off. This topic is to discuss the war with Russia and Georgia. The Western countries and Israel, who is arming and training Georgian military, clearly have an interest in supporting Georgia. If you think that is off topic, then you're delusional. This war is political, and the West is most certainly involved.MrSmith wrote:whats the point of mentioning Israel's arms sales here? They are pretty insignificant compared with most of Georgia's dealings with the rest of the west, or at least of no special interest to anyone not obsessed with hating on Israel. its almost completely off topic, just admit it.
oh, and your "obsessed with hating on Israel" comment is weak.
to launch a war with Russia? there could be reasons as to why they'd want that, but clearly they have an interest in Georgia, and that's what I was trying to point out. the articles were also interesting, and absolutely discussed this topic, so claiming it's "off topic" is just plain wrong.and if Israel's intent was to arm Georgians to launch a war with Russia (again, no proof in the article), it was pretty poor planning on their part. unless the purpose was to turn Georgia into a Russian satellite again.0 -
which they already said they wouldn't do.reborncareerist wrote:The Russians are not justified when it comes to extending the war beyond South Ossetian territory and onto Georgian (per se) soil0 -
Russia points to media bias in coverage of S.Ossetia conflict
MOSCOW, August 10 (RIA Novosti) - A top Russian diplomat accused foreign media on Sunday of pro-Georgian bias in their coverage of the ongoing conflict between Georgia and Russia over breakaway South Ossetia.
Russia says Georgian forces have killed around 2,000 South Ossetian civilians, mainly Russian nationals, in attacks that began on Friday, and that 34,000 locals have been forced to flee to Russia. In response to the Georgian offensive, Russia sent tanks and troops into the province, and carried out a series of air strikes on Georgian military targets.
"We want television screens in the West to be showing not only Russian tanks, and texts saying Russia is at war in South Ossetia and with Georgia, but also to be showing the suffering of the Ossetian people, the murdered elderly people and children, the destroyed towns of South Ossetia, and [regional capital] Tskhinvali. This would be an objective way of presenting the material," Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin told a RIA Novosti news conference.
Current Western media coverage of the events in the separatist republic is "a politically motivated version, to put it mildly," he said.
The United States, Georgia's key ally, has called Russia's strikes on Georgian territory "dangerous and disproportionate," and warned that they could harm relations with Washington in the long-term. Georgia said on Friday that 300 of its citizens had been killed, mainly civilians, by Russian forces.
Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin earlier called Russia's actions "absolutely justified and legitimate from the legal standpoint," and accused Georgia of "full-scale genocide."
At the premier's meeting with South Ossetian refugees at a makeshift hospital camp in Russia's North Ossetia on Saturday, eyewitnesses described atrocities committed by Georgian troops, including an incident where a group of local young women were rounded up and burned alive, and killings of old people and children.
Karasin said on Saturday that the country may ask the International Court of Justice and the European Court of Human Rights to investigate war crimes committed by Georgia.
Georgian Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili said on Sunday that Georgian forces had fully withdrawn from the separatist province.
However, a spokesman for the peacekeeping command told RIA Novosti: "This statement is a lie, just like [Georgian President Mikheil] Saakashvili's statement on the impossibility of using military force in conflict zones."
Russia has also denied bombing Georgian towns.
"The Georgian side has named some nearby populated areas and towns, saying they are being bombed by the Russian Air Force. I take full responsibility in saying that the Russian side did not bomb any populated area," Col.-Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy head of the Russian Armed Forces General Staff, told a news briefing on Sunday.
Edit-http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080810/115936076.html0 -
...reborncareerist wrote:The Russians are not justified when it comes to extending the war beyond South Ossetian territory and onto Georgian (per se) soil ... I can MAYBE see the "peacekeeping" argument, insofar as pushing the Georgians out of South Ossetia ... But then pull back. Attempting to destroy the Georgian military has nothing to do with protecting South Ossetia and everything to do with giving the West the metaphorical finger.
Well... not that I'm defending the Russians... I think they are assholes... but, isn't it the same thing we did in 1991 to Iraq? We hit military bases and command and control centers inside of Iraq, instead of just taking out Iraqi military forces that had invaded/occupied Kuwait.
Military operations (U.S., Russia, Whoever) call for disabling the command and control and taking out tactical forces (i.e.Air Bases, Military installations, etc...) regardless of where they are, geographically.
Why is it okay for us to take on these operations... but not the Russians?Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
_outlaw wrote:which they already said they wouldn't do.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/11/georgia.russia/index.html
The Russian military advanced into Georgia on two fronts Monday, heading towards cities outside the breakaway provinces that have been the centers of fighting.
A CNN crew in Gori saw Georgian forces piling into trucks and leaving the city at high speed.
CNN saw thousands of troops driving out of the city, as well as thousands of civilians traveling by convoy from Gori toward Tbilisi.
Gori lies along Georgia's main east-west highway, and is an important site for Georgia's communication systems.
Russian troops were also in Senaki, in western Georgia, having advanced from Abkhazia, Russian and Georgian officials said.
Russia's Interfax news agency cited an official with the Russian Defense Ministry saying troops were in Senaki to "prevent attacks by Georgian military units against South Ossetia." Senaki is home to a Georgian military base.
Georgia's interior ministry said Russia had also seized control of Zugdidi -- a city on the route between Abkhazia and Senaki.0 -
reborncareerist wrote:None of this is all that shocking, and in all honesty, it's hard to pity the Russians, who have the numbers and the firepower to completely wipe out the Georgian military, even if the latter has better soldiers. The Georgians will kill a lot of Russians if this thing keeps escalating. But they'd lose a war in the end, advisors or no.
And these mystery blacks? They could be from anywhere.
I would really like to know why you find none of this shocking.
You think Georgia has better soldiers, just because the U.S. trained some of them, how naive. Maybe you forget that Georgia was part of the USSR and as such served in its military.
Russia is not looking for pity, it is protecting its own. The pitiful part is that it is our greed for oil that causes these conflicts around the world.
Yes, the dead mystery black fighters could have come from anywhere, the question why were they in the Republic of Georgia fighting against the Russians and who sent them Its not like they are part of the neighborhood.SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.0 -
reborncareerist wrote:The Russians are not justified when it comes to extending the war beyond South Ossetian territory and onto Georgian (per se) soil ... I can MAYBE see the "peacekeeping" argument, insofar as pushing the Georgians out of South Ossetia ... But then pull back. Attempting to destroy the Georgian military has nothing to do with protecting South Ossetia and everything to do with giving the West the metaphorical finger.
Why not, when the Georgian military is being supplement with U.S. instructors and mercenaries.
I don't see us stopping in Iraq. We've gone into other countries on the pretext of the war on terror. That's a weak argument point.SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.0 -
puremagic wrote:Why not, when the Georgian military is being supplement with U.S. instructors and mercenaries.
I don't see us stopping in Iraq. We've gone into other countries on the pretext of the war on terror. That's a weak argument point.
Your attempt to act as an apologist for Russia is just as weak, so there ya go.
Protecting its own? THAT's naive. That's the same argument Bush used for invading Iraq, a war I know you don't support. Apparently its cool when non-Americans use this rationale, though.
And I based what I said about Georgian troops on the ratings of combat readiness and general quality that you can find online ... In short, yes, training from Americans does make a difference.0 -
corduroy85 wrote:Damn those Reuters headlines! Everybody knows of course that each side gives its own version of the story.
All I can say is that georgian troops according to our news channels finish off Russian peacekeepers with the total number around 10 and Saakashvili is a motherfucking lying asskissing pro-Bush bastard.
My question is: who sent the Russian "peacekeepers"?
Isn't having Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia like having Israeli peacekeepers in Gaza? Or perhaps better Palestinian peacekeepers in Jerusalem?... and the will to show I will always be better than before.0 -
as for media bias, i havent watched the news much lately, but i havent seen any real bias on CNN yet. they had Georgia's president on and the interviewer was pretty tough and quick to point out his accusations were all unconfirmed. They seem pretty neutral to me. honestly, i dont think they have a clue of whats going on just yet.
i dont know for sure though. i dont get cable any more.0 -
...meme wrote:My question is: who sent the Russian "peacekeepers"?
Isn't having Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia like having Israeli peacekeepers in Gaza? Or perhaps better Palestinian peacekeepers in Jerusalem?
A 'Peacekeeper' is someone in a uniform with a gun and goes into places and kills people... I guess it because dead people are so peaceful.
or... they could be something like these:
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-118.htmlAllen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
can someone tell me why if South Ossetia is Russian, why it was made part of georgia after the USSR collapsed? someone said the Russians were protecting their own, yet they are fighting in Georgia. i need a history lesson here.0
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...MrSmith wrote:can someone tell me why if South Ossetia is Russian, why it was made part of georgia after the USSR collapsed?
And why didn't they just call it 'North Georgia'? I think that map maker is going to be facing a trial and firing squad pretty soon.Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
MrSmith wrote:can someone tell me why if South Ossetia is Russian, why it was made part of georgia after the USSR collapsed? someone said the Russians were protecting their own, yet they are fighting in Georgia. i need a history lesson here.
The Ossetians are not ethnically Russian ... North Ossetia is technically part of Russia, while the South is technically part of Georgia. I am not sure how this was decided. Many in South Ossetia wish to unify with North Ossetia, which makes a certain amount of sense. However, this would mean becoming part of the Russian state. I believe that both Ossetias are "autonomous regions", meaning that they are essentially self-governing.
The Russians have been issuing South Ossetians passports, and have been basically making them Russian citizens. Thus the "protecting their own" remark. I do not view the South Ossetians are proud Russians, though. They've been co-opted, basically, for political reasons.0
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