There's a huge media bias from US and Western countries, you're just ignorant and eat up every little pile of crap that your channels feed you.
If it fits for you to blame Russia/Red Threat/Evil Empire/whatever you wanna call it for what's happenning in South Ossetia, you can't see past your own nose. Obviously Russia is the root of all evil in that situation for you.
And the fact that Georgians barged in South Osettia first and started nazi-like killings of innocent civilians, the fact that Georgian military corpus in Ossetia exceeded the number of Russian peacekeepers (who Georgians btw finished off mercilessly and despicably) by 12x means shit to you.
Go learn some history but not from Fox news.
Talk about fucking double standards! Sure, Hussein who destroyed some small villages you hang, but a man who employed genocide to settle territory issues (which is, by the way, one of the default requirements for joinig NATO) thus reaching his lucrative goals you defend. The same thing was once with Ben Laden who you nurtured in the first place and who came back to bite you in the ass in 9/11.
puremagic, you're the only levelheaded person in this thread.
wow i didnt realize you could read my mind and know everything i think without me even writing it down!
you're another genius who thinks i watch FOXnews and believe the Iraq War was justified, simply because i disagree with you. Actually, i havent even disagreed with you on who's at fault with this war. i dont really have an opinion just yet. So you jcall me an idiot for nothing! Brilliant!
unlike you i'm consistent. i dont think the total occupation of either Iraq or Georgia is justified.
i know FOXnews is bullshit and the media is biased, but i just said i havent seen it in this case. and how the fuck would you know what US television news is saying!?! once again, i base my opinions on actual facts and observation (ie actually watching the boob tube and seeing what they are saying), and you make baseless assumptions you pull from thin air! you are so fair and balanced!
The situation is and was complicated from what I've read. the root lies in the russian empire, later to be the soviet union. There are several semi- and fully autonomous regions within the old Soviet states. The people of Abkhazia and Ossetia were always allied to the russians, much more so than the Georgians, and these regions had some autonomy. When Georgia and others broke off from the Soviet, these regions also wanted their independence, but were hampered by the Georgians. After some fighting, the russians intervened to seperate the fighting parties, and to protect their old allies. so, since then, these regions have been de facto semi-autonomous.
Since the Ossetians dont want to be Georgian citizens, and they are not recognized as a state globally, they were offered russian passports and citizenship in order for them to cross borders and travel. Ossetians want a close relationship with Russia, with the historical roots and all, and at least not with Georgia with whom they've been at war, and now again is.
The war have been long coming, especially after Sakaashvili made it a priority to bring the seperatists back into the fold of Georgia. (where they havent really been since the war in the early 90s) It is of course in russia's interest to have a foothold on that side of the mountains, in addition to maintaining the friendship with the Ossetians. But Georgia attacked first, by all accounts, so so far the Russians have justification for what they're doing. Now, we will see in the coming days whether the russians in turn overstep that justification.
And the west should step lightly in this matter as it is very similar to the whole Kosovo situation. But I also think russia wants to resolve the matter quickly and decisively. Otherwise it might spread to Chechnya and others...
-- I offer no apology for Russia because Russia is doing just what we do in other countries. The only problem here is the US and EU, just like you are pretending to be a shocked at Russia stepping up and saying fuck this. The U.S and BP go after their economy by building a pipeline to bypass their oil rights. Then we say, hey, plus we (U.S. and EU) are going to build a missile defense system in your backyard. Take that Russia! Well here's your answer, more death and destruction leveled on innocent people caught in the middle of greedy, egotistical politicians.
When all else fails, the theme is to resort to presumptuous personal attacks, how weak.
-- What I don't support are lies and deceit that get people killed, that destroy countries and people because of greedy politicians.
--Don't let the fact that I live in NM fool you into thinking I'm not an American because you'd be dead wrong. Everything our government does is not always done in the best interest of the people or the nation. Yet, everything Bush and Administration has questionably done, he claims he has done in the name of the American people. Mass murder is not my thing.
-- Combat training may enhance a person's ability, but that is only a small, very small purpose of advanced military instructors. Its the training on U.S. militarysupplied equipment and sophisticated weapons that makes a difference. However, in this case, its not U.S. weapons vs rock throwing Arabs is it! No, its U.S. weapons facing an equally equipped and determined opponent.
=======
Why is it always necessary to push the envelop?
What makes you think that at some point a nation wasn't going to say f--k this? Bush and his Administration thought that since they had Iran isolated, North Korea silenced and China content, that Russia was no longer an issue. In fact they dismissed Russia's protest of these issues. They were blind to fact that they were backing Russia into a corner with the only option to come out fighting.
If you listen to Bush and Rice, they are both conceding the fact that Russia can have the disputed territories in Georgia. So why the hell didn't Bush and Rice negotiate and settle that with Georgia beforehand? Why did it have to come to this!!!
Hey, new rule on Synergy .... If you call someone's logic weak, and if they provide the response that your logic is just as weak, how about just conceding the point instead of making up spurious claims about personal attacks?
Personal attack = "puremagic, you are a retard!" (just giving an example, I do not believe this to be true!)
Not a personal attack = "Your logic is weak", or "Apparently its OK to slam Americans for doing one thing but not the Russians".
Seriously ... I was not attacking you with what I said. I was pointing out an inconsistency. And for the record, if you don't wish to be told that your logic is weak, don't argue this point about someone else's.
Gas runs through just about everywhere in the globe. There's oil running through Alaska, a barren wasteland.
We need to be careful about always using that excuse. Sometimes countries do things for reasons besides oil.
For instance, Russia might be doing what they're doing because of...nationalism.
I absolutely agree with you, and if you go back to my post, I put that as the main reason. However, I do think there is an economic reason AS WELL. It's also not just about gas running through everywhere in the globe. It's about pipelines bringing gas from a very specific place, the Black Sea, to another very specific place, Russia. Not a barren wasteland (or not only), but a populous region with high energy demands.
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
Hey, new rule on Synergy .... If you call someone's logic weak, and if they provide the response that your logic is just as weak, how about just conceding the point instead of making up spurious claims about personal attacks?
Personal attack = "puremagic, you are a retard!" (just giving an example, I do not believe this to be true!)
Not a personal attack = "Your logic is weak", or "Apparently its OK to slam Americans for doing one thing but not the Russians".
Seriously ... I was not attacking you with what I said. I was pointing out an inconsistency. And for the record, if you don't wish to be told that your logic is weak, don't argue this point about someone else's.
The saddest thing about this reply is that you have provided nothing relative to the topic. Some insight to the crisis would have given your reply some bite. Too late and so much for the American trained Georgian military.
Russia Says Offensive Ends in Georgia
BY MISHA DZHINDZHIKHASHVILI
AP
posted: 2 HOURS AGO
comments: 348
filed under: World News
TBILISI, Georgia (Aug. 12) -- Russia ordered a halt to military action in Georgia on Tuesday, after five days of air and land attacks sent Georgia's army into headlong retreat and left towns and military bases destroyed.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
The saddest thing about this reply is that you have provided nothing relative to the topic. Some insight to the crisis would have given your reply some bite. Too late and so much for the American trained Georgian military.
Russia Says Offensive Ends in Georgia
BY MISHA DZHINDZHIKHASHVILI
AP
posted: 2 HOURS AGO
comments: 348
filed under: World News
TBILISI, Georgia (Aug. 12) -- Russia ordered a halt to military action in Georgia on Tuesday, after five days of air and land attacks sent Georgia's army into headlong retreat and left towns and military bases destroyed.
And the hypocrisy rolls on ... Whatever. Hopefully the war is over, and you guys can wave your hammer-and-sic ... I mean, red, white, and blue flags in victory.
Good going, man! Thumbs up! You gotta have an intelligence of a carrot to claim such things so blindly and categorically. Let me think how it's called. Oh I now! Nationalism.
Because Ossetians is one indivisible nation.
...
Whoa, Boris... you really need to loosen up your panties, here... really.
I read a lot of stuff here about Americans... and I don't take it personally. in fact, I understand that 'America'... as in the policies and actions that are taken... in our names... are shitty and deserving of the oppposition.
The same goes for Russia, China, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc... Yeah, they can be real assholes at times.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
My question is: who sent the Russian "peacekeepers"?
Isn't having Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia like having Israeli peacekeepers in Gaza? Or perhaps better Palestinian peacekeepers in Jerusalem?
From my understanding, Georgia and Russia had agreed to both have peacekeepers in South Ossetia in light of the conflicts in the region with the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, or thereabouts, and their separatist (or unionist, depending on whichever side) aspirations.
Of course, from Russia's point of view it makes perfect strategic sense to keep a presence there, not just because of the historical links to the region and North Ossetia being within their borders but also because it provides them with an opportunity to create instability in Georgia and maintain influence in an area where it's increasingly threatened (the BP pipeline, NATO membership requests for Georgia and Ukraine, not to mention the US-sponsored missile defence system).
The situation is and was complicated from what I've read. the root lies in the russian empire, later to be the soviet union. There are several semi- and fully autonomous regions within the old Soviet states. The people of Abkhazia and Ossetia were always allied to the russians, much more so than the Georgians, and these regions had some autonomy. When Georgia and others broke off from the Soviet, these regions also wanted their independence, but were hampered by the Georgians. After some fighting, the russians intervened to seperate the fighting parties, and to protect their old allies. so, since then, these regions have been de facto semi-autonomous.
Since the Ossetians dont want to be Georgian citizens, and they are not recognized as a state globally, they were offered russian passports and citizenship in order for them to cross borders and travel. Ossetians want a close relationship with Russia, with the historical roots and all, and at least not with Georgia with whom they've been at war, and now again is.
The war have been long coming, especially after Sakaashvili made it a priority to bring the seperatists back into the fold of Georgia. (where they havent really been since the war in the early 90s) It is of course in russia's interest to have a foothold on that side of the mountains, in addition to maintaining the friendship with the Ossetians. But Georgia attacked first, by all accounts, so so far the Russians have justification for what they're doing. Now, we will see in the coming days whether the russians in turn overstep that justification.
And the west should step lightly in this matter as it is very similar to the whole Kosovo situation. But I also think russia wants to resolve the matter quickly and decisively. Otherwise it might spread to Chechnya and others...
Peace
Dan
Agreed with all that
Just to add, the Ossetians were using Soviet Unions passports as they refused Georgian ones. Once those passports were no longer legally valid, Russia offered them Russian passports, which explain also their claim to defend its citizens in the region.
What I find truly mindboggling is the Georgian president's HUGE miscalculation. I mean, seriously, did he think that the US and Europe would intervene on their side and speed-track NATO membership, and that Russia would not respond?!? The conflict has been going on long enough and they had reached some sort of agreement.
I really cannot understand his move. Unless it's just warmongering nationalistic hubris!
Besides, Russia would have been better off with South Ossetia being a turbolent separatist region in Georgia as it gives them the option to mingle in the affairs of Georgia. But an independent South Ossetia is not much good for them, strategically or economically, so they had no incentive to launch an attack.
only I question if it is justified for Russia to bomb georgian towns and sink their ships in the black sea...this doesn't fall under "protecting russian citizens", but is more like a punishment or something...a demonstration of strength.
it seems like Russia still hasn't achieved a solid economic development which profits the majority of the people, not only a small oligarchy, they have to resort to imperial manners again...showing they are strong and powerful again, not only to the world, but mainly to their own citizens(which are mostly poor)...
m.
Saakashvili's foolhardy move has re-awakened the Russian bear but it looks now that this show of strength has been enough. Hopefully!
.....
In anycase its hardly the USA which is doing the interfering here...
Well, it's not as if the US hasn't been involved in the area though: sponsoring the Rose Revolution with Saakishvili, or training Georgia army or getting their ally, Israel, to sell weapons, or indeed the whole missile defence system, not to mention the pipeline... all little jabs to keep tension with Russia alive.
And the hypocrisy rolls on ... Whatever. Hopefully the war is over, and you guys can wave your hammer-and-sic ... I mean, red, white, and blue flags in victory.
One thing for certain, I wouldn't be waving the flag ass-backwards.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
sorry, I'm new around here. (but have been browsing for awhile) how long did it take to blame America for this on this board?
Well, you're obviously new. We have a rule here. Whenever something bad happens, it could be your aunt falling down a flight of stairs, the USA is automatically blamed.
There's a problem, though. Because another rule says that any criticism towards the US is unpatriotic, un-American and a clear indicator that you hate freedom and support terrorism.
Well, you're obviously new. We have a rule here. Whenever something bad happens, it could be your aunt falling down a flight of stairs, the USA is automatically blamed.
There's a problem, though. Because another rule says that any criticism towards the US is unpatriotic, un-American and a clear indicator that you hate freedom and support terrorism.
Welcome to the Train....wreck.
That's a pretty good summary ... My view is that the former camp outnumbers the latter by a fair margin.
I wouldn't say "blaming" America usually happens, but I guess it might just be a coincidence that the U.S. happens to be 'involved' in many, if not most, of the world's "conflicts."
I wouldn't say "blaming" America usually happens, but I guess it might just be a coincidence that the U.S. happens to be 'involved' in many, if not most, of the world's "conflicts."
don't get ahead of yourself. "clearly" is a strong word. you might be able to argue it, but I wouldn't say they "clearly wish to emulate this."
Alright, I take back the clearly. But I think the basic point stands. Russia sells weapons to people that the U.S. shuns ... Russia's political and diplomatic rhetoric, Russia's voting pattern in the UN ... Many things point towards an interventionist approach that differs from America's only by degree ... And I think Putin would like to change that.
I cant see how this is the fault of the United States... but we do look absurd acting as if we have ANY credibility commenting on what countries can invade other countries because they are "sovereign nations".... What are we so upset about, did we forget to get a copyright on illegal, immoral, and unethical invasions?
I cant see how this is the fault of the United States... but we do look absurd acting as if we have ANY credibility commenting on what countries can invade other countries because they are "sovereign nations".... What are we so upset about, did we forget to get a copyright on illegal, immoral, and unethical invasions?
I have to agree with you 100%. The US is not responsible for Russia's actions or Georgia's as well. Yet we do sound foolish denouncing Russia's actions when we, and our allies, have engaged in the same sort of activities as well.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Actually, today he his
Media coverage here seems to have clearly decided Russia was the bad guy without giving us an opportunity to understand what's happening. So a short summary is always welcome!
So your Russian friend is a she. No wonder she agrees with you. Her way is having her legs spread or something like that?
Anyway proving to an idiot that he's an idiot is a waste of time.
unlike you i'm consistent. i dont think the total occupation of either Iraq or Georgia is justified.
i know FOXnews is bullshit and the media is biased, but i just said i havent seen it in this case. and how the fuck would you know what US television news is saying!?! once again, i base my opinions on actual facts and observation (ie actually watching the boob tube and seeing what they are saying), and you make baseless assumptions you pull from thin air! you are so fair and balanced!
I wonder who is occupating Georgia. Give me one example of me being inconsistent then we'll talk.
You didn't see any bias in this case, hmm...maybe because what you see is already censored and chewed in a special way for you to digest. But I guess you don't even concede that.
Whoa, Boris... you really need to loosen up your panties, here... really.
I read a lot of stuff here about Americans... and I don't take it personally.Yeah, they can be real assholes at times.
As far as I can remember it was your president who loosened up his panties in the White House not long ago, a cool gesture for any president! Truly. You should be proud of him.
You didn't say "at times", what you said was Russians are assholes as in "they were born assholes, they are assholes and always will be". Learn how to build your sentences so that you wouldn't be misunderstood in the future. Jeez you can't even learn your own langauge.
P.S. Proving most pro-US countries wrong is impossible. Russia will always be the Evil Empire in their eyes. They will cease to see it this way only if it surrendered to USA superiors' will and be a vegetable you can squish easily like Canada or Mexico.
So your Russian friend is a she. No wonder she agrees with you. Her way is having her legs spread or something like that?
Anyway proving to an idiot that he's an idiot is a waste of time.
I wonder who is occupating Georgia. Give me one example of me being inconsistent then we'll talk.
You didn't see any bias in this case, hmm...maybe because what you see is already censored and chewed in a special way for you to digest. But I guess you don't even concede that.
As far as I can remember it was your president who loosened up his panties in the White House not long ago, a cool gesture for any president! Truly. You should be proud of him.
You didn't say "at times", what you said was Russians are assholes as in "they were born assholes, they are assholes and always will be". Learn how to build your sentences so that you wouldn't be misunderstood in the future. Jeez you can't even learn your own langauge.
P.S. Proving most pro-US countries wrong is impossible. Russia will always be the Evil Empire in their eyes. They will cease to see it this way only if it surrendered to USA superiors' will and be a vegetable you can squish easily like Canada or Mexico.
jesus christ, this site becomes more and more incoherent by the day. you seem like a troll to me, so i'm done with you.
I must admit....this is all an interesting planned distraction from Iraq...
some are loving it much more...
almost a relief for some people i think
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Comments
wow i didnt realize you could read my mind and know everything i think without me even writing it down!
you're another genius who thinks i watch FOXnews and believe the Iraq War was justified, simply because i disagree with you. Actually, i havent even disagreed with you on who's at fault with this war. i dont really have an opinion just yet. So you jcall me an idiot for nothing! Brilliant!
unlike you i'm consistent. i dont think the total occupation of either Iraq or Georgia is justified.
i know FOXnews is bullshit and the media is biased, but i just said i havent seen it in this case. and how the fuck would you know what US television news is saying!?! once again, i base my opinions on actual facts and observation (ie actually watching the boob tube and seeing what they are saying), and you make baseless assumptions you pull from thin air! you are so fair and balanced!
Thank you for that, OutofBreath.
Thanks, OutofBreath! You're my hero!!!
Hey, new rule on Synergy .... If you call someone's logic weak, and if they provide the response that your logic is just as weak, how about just conceding the point instead of making up spurious claims about personal attacks?
Personal attack = "puremagic, you are a retard!" (just giving an example, I do not believe this to be true!)
Not a personal attack = "Your logic is weak", or "Apparently its OK to slam Americans for doing one thing but not the Russians".
Seriously ... I was not attacking you with what I said. I was pointing out an inconsistency. And for the record, if you don't wish to be told that your logic is weak, don't argue this point about someone else's.
I absolutely agree with you, and if you go back to my post, I put that as the main reason. However, I do think there is an economic reason AS WELL. It's also not just about gas running through everywhere in the globe. It's about pipelines bringing gas from a very specific place, the Black Sea, to another very specific place, Russia. Not a barren wasteland (or not only), but a populous region with high energy demands.
The saddest thing about this reply is that you have provided nothing relative to the topic. Some insight to the crisis would have given your reply some bite. Too late and so much for the American trained Georgian military.
Russia Says Offensive Ends in Georgia
BY MISHA DZHINDZHIKHASHVILI
AP
posted: 2 HOURS AGO
comments: 348
filed under: World News
TBILISI, Georgia (Aug. 12) -- Russia ordered a halt to military action in Georgia on Tuesday, after five days of air and land attacks sent Georgia's army into headlong retreat and left towns and military bases destroyed.
And the hypocrisy rolls on ... Whatever. Hopefully the war is over, and you guys can wave your hammer-and-sic ... I mean, red, white, and blue flags in victory.
Whoa, Boris... you really need to loosen up your panties, here... really.
I read a lot of stuff here about Americans... and I don't take it personally. in fact, I understand that 'America'... as in the policies and actions that are taken... in our names... are shitty and deserving of the oppposition.
The same goes for Russia, China, Israel, Saudi Arabia, etc... Yeah, they can be real assholes at times.
Hail, Hail!!!
From my understanding, Georgia and Russia had agreed to both have peacekeepers in South Ossetia in light of the conflicts in the region with the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, or thereabouts, and their separatist (or unionist, depending on whichever side) aspirations.
Of course, from Russia's point of view it makes perfect strategic sense to keep a presence there, not just because of the historical links to the region and North Ossetia being within their borders but also because it provides them with an opportunity to create instability in Georgia and maintain influence in an area where it's increasingly threatened (the BP pipeline, NATO membership requests for Georgia and Ukraine, not to mention the US-sponsored missile defence system).
Agreed with all that
Just to add, the Ossetians were using Soviet Unions passports as they refused Georgian ones. Once those passports were no longer legally valid, Russia offered them Russian passports, which explain also their claim to defend its citizens in the region.
What I find truly mindboggling is the Georgian president's HUGE miscalculation. I mean, seriously, did he think that the US and Europe would intervene on their side and speed-track NATO membership, and that Russia would not respond?!? The conflict has been going on long enough and they had reached some sort of agreement.
I really cannot understand his move. Unless it's just warmongering nationalistic hubris!
Besides, Russia would have been better off with South Ossetia being a turbolent separatist region in Georgia as it gives them the option to mingle in the affairs of Georgia. But an independent South Ossetia is not much good for them, strategically or economically, so they had no incentive to launch an attack.
Saakashvili's foolhardy move has re-awakened the Russian bear but it looks now that this show of strength has been enough. Hopefully!
Well, it's not as if the US hasn't been involved in the area though: sponsoring the Rose Revolution with Saakishvili, or training Georgia army or getting their ally, Israel, to sell weapons, or indeed the whole missile defence system, not to mention the pipeline... all little jabs to keep tension with Russia alive.
Most men worried about penis size buy a sportscar. Putin and company happen to run one of the world's largest militaries.
One thing for certain, I wouldn't be waving the flag ass-backwards.
No, you most certainly wouldn't. Then people might think you ... GASP ... patriotic.
Well, you're obviously new. We have a rule here. Whenever something bad happens, it could be your aunt falling down a flight of stairs, the USA is automatically blamed.
There's a problem, though. Because another rule says that any criticism towards the US is unpatriotic, un-American and a clear indicator that you hate freedom and support terrorism.
Welcome to the Train....wreck.
naděje umírá poslední
That's a pretty good summary ... My view is that the former camp outnumbers the latter by a fair margin.
And Russia clearly wishes to emulate this goal.
Alright, I take back the clearly. But I think the basic point stands. Russia sells weapons to people that the U.S. shuns ... Russia's political and diplomatic rhetoric, Russia's voting pattern in the UN ... Many things point towards an interventionist approach that differs from America's only by degree ... And I think Putin would like to change that.
I have to agree with you 100%. The US is not responsible for Russia's actions or Georgia's as well. Yet we do sound foolish denouncing Russia's actions when we, and our allies, have engaged in the same sort of activities as well.
Media coverage here seems to have clearly decided Russia was the bad guy without giving us an opportunity to understand what's happening. So a short summary is always welcome!
Anyway proving to an idiot that he's an idiot is a waste of time.
I wonder who is occupating Georgia. Give me one example of me being inconsistent then we'll talk.
You didn't see any bias in this case, hmm...maybe because what you see is already censored and chewed in a special way for you to digest. But I guess you don't even concede that.
As far as I can remember it was your president who loosened up his panties in the White House not long ago, a cool gesture for any president! Truly. You should be proud of him.
You didn't say "at times", what you said was Russians are assholes as in "they were born assholes, they are assholes and always will be". Learn how to build your sentences so that you wouldn't be misunderstood in the future. Jeez you can't even learn your own langauge.
P.S. Proving most pro-US countries wrong is impossible. Russia will always be the Evil Empire in their eyes. They will cease to see it this way only if it surrendered to USA superiors' will and be a vegetable you can squish easily like Canada or Mexico.
Sure, run away.
some are loving it much more...
almost a relief for some people i think
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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