Somebody please explain to me how we (the U.S.) can condemn and now want to punish Russia for invading Georgia after we bombed the fuck out of and invaded Iraq???
Is this hypocrisy, or am I missing something? Are there 5 year old running this country?
As far as I can remember it was your president who loosened up his panties in the White House not long ago, a cool gesture for any president! Truly. You should be proud of him.
You didn't say "at times", what you said was Russians are assholes as in "they were born assholes, they are assholes and always will be". Learn how to build your sentences so that you wouldn't be misunderstood in the future. Jeez you can't even learn your own langauge.
P.S. Proving most pro-US countries wrong is impossible. Russia will always be the Evil Empire in their eyes. They will cease to see it this way only if it surrendered to USA superiors' will and be a vegetable you can squish easily like Canada or Mexico.
...
You know... you are proving that my original assessment was correct.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
Last week, Georgia launched a major military offensive against the rebel province South Ossetia, just hours after President Mikheil Saakashvili had announced a unilateral ceasefire. Close to 1,500 have been killed, Russian officials say. Thirty thousand refugees, mostly women and children, streamed across the border into the North Ossetian capital Vladikavkaz in Russia.
The timing — and subterfuge — suggest the unscrupulous Saakashvili was counting on surprise. “Most decision makers have gone for the holidays,” he said in an interview with CNN. “Brilliant moment to attack a small country.” Apparently he was referring to Russia invading Georgia, despite the fact that it was Georgia which had just launched a full-scale invasion of the “small country” South Ossetia, while Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin was in Beijing for the Olympics. Twenty-seven Russian peacekeepers and troops have been killed and 150 wounded so far, many when their barracks were shelled by Georgian forces at the start of the invasion. Georgian State Minister for Reintegration Temur Yakobashvili rushed to announce that their mini-blitzkreig had destroyed ten Russian combat planes (Russia says two) and that Georgian troops were in full control of the capital Tskhinvali.
Russia’s Defense Ministry denounced the Georgian attack as a “dirty adventure.” From Beijing, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said, “It is regrettable that on the day before the opening of the Olympic Games, the Georgian authorities have undertaken aggressive actions in South Ossetia.” He later added, “War has started.” Russian President Dmitry Medvedev vowed that Moscow will protect Russian citizens — most South Ossetians hold Russian passports. The offensive prompted Moscow to send in 150 tanks, to launch air strikes on nearby Gori and military sites, and to order warships to Georgia’s Black Sea coast.
Georgia’s national security council declared a state of war with Russia and a full military mobilisation. US military planes are already flying Georgia’s 2,000 troops in Iraq — the third-largest force after the United States and Britain — back to confront the Russians. By Sunday, despite early claims of victory, Georgian troops had retreated from South Ossetia, leaving diplomatic rubble behind which will be very hard to clear. Truth is stranger than fiction in Georgia.
The writing has been on the wall for months. Georgian President Saakashvili’s fawning over Western leaders at the “emergency” NATO meeting in April and his pre-election anti-Russian bluster in May made it clear to all that Georgia is the more-than-willing canary in the Eastern mine shaft. The Georgian attack on South Ossetia’s capital Tskhinvali — I repeat — just hours after Saakashvili declared a cease-fire, looks very much like an attempt to reincorporate the rebel province into Georgia unilaterally. But whoever is advising the brash young president ignores the postscript — no pasaran! South Ossetia has been independent for 16 years and is not likely to drape flowers on invading Georgia tanks. It also just happens to have Russia as patron.
The aftershocks of this wild gamble by Saakashvili are just beginning. This is Russia’s most serious altercation with a foreign country since the collapse of the Soviet Union and could escalate into an all-out war engulfing much of the Caucasus region. Russian warships are not planning to block shipments of oil from Georgia’s Black Sea port of Poti, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin said on Sunday, but reserve the right to search ships coming to and from it. Another source naval source said, “The crews are assigned the task to not allow arms and military hardware supplies to reach Georgia by sea.” The Russians have already sunk a Georgian missile boat that was trying to attack Russian ships. Upping the ante, Ukraine said it reserved the right to bar Russian warships from returning to their nominally Ukrainian — formerly Russian — base of Sevastopol , on the Crimean peninsula. On Saturday, Russia accused Ukraine of “arming the Georgians to the teeth.”
Georgia’s other separatist region, Abkhazia, was mobilising its forces for a push into the Kodori Gorge, the only part of Abkhazia controlled by Georgia. “No dialogue is possible with the current Georgian leadership,” said Abkhazia’s President Sergei Bagapsh. “They are state criminals who must be tried for the crimes committed in South Ossetia, the genocide of the Ossetian people.” Britain has ordered its nationals to leave Georgia. British charity worker Sian Davis said, “It’s really, really quiet, eerily quiet. Everyone was either at home or had packed up and moved out of the city. People are really, really scared. People are panicking.” So far the more than 2,000 US nationals in this tiny but strategic country are mostly staying put.
This is yet another made-in-the-USA war. US President George W Bush loudly supported Georgia’s request to join NATO in April, much to the consternation of European leaders. NATO promised to send advisers in December. Not losing any time, the US sent more than 1,000 US Marines and soldiers to the Vaziani military base on the South Ossetian border in July “to teach combat skills to Georgian troops.” The UN Security Council failed to reach an agreement on the current crisis after three emergency meetings. A Russian-drafted statement that called on Georgia and the separatists to “renounce the use of force” was vetoed by the US, UK and France. To dispel any conceivable doubt, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Friday: “We call on Russia to cease attacks on Georgia by aircraft and missiles, respect Georgia’s territorial integrity, and withdraw its ground combat forces from Georgian soil.”
But it’s also yet another made-in-Israel war. A thousand military advisers from Israeli security firms have been training the country’s armed forces and were deeply involved in the Georgian army’s preparations to attack and capture the capital of South Ossetia, according to the Israeli web site Debkafiles which has close links with the regime’s intelligence and military sources. Haaretz reported that Yakobashvili told Army Radio — in Hebrew, “ Israel should be proud of its military which trained Georgian soldiers.” “We killed 60 Russian soldiers just yesterday,” he boasted on Monday. “The Russians have lost more than 50 tanks, and we have shot down 11 of their planes. They have enormous damage in terms of manpower.” He warned that the Russians would try and open another battlefront in Abkhazia and denied reports that the Georgian army was retreating. “The Georgian forces are not retreating. We move our military according to security needs.”
Israelis are active in real estate, tourism, gaming, military manufacturing and security consulting in Georgia, including former Tel Aviv mayor Roni Milo and Likudite and gambling operator Reuven Gavrieli. “The Russians don't look kindly on the military cooperation of Israeli firms with the Georgian army, and as far as I know, Israelis doing security consulting left Georgia in the past few days because of the events there,” the former Israeli ambassador to Georgia and Armenia, Baruch Ben Neria, said yesterday. Since his posting, Ben Neria has represented Rafael Advanced Defense Systems in Georgia .
By Sunday, Putin was in Vladikavkaz and said it is unlikely South Ossetia will ever be reintegrated into Georgia. There are really only two possible scenarios to end the conflict: a long-term stalemate or Russian annexation of South Ossetia. The former is beginning to look pretty good, and Saakashvili is probably already ruing his rash move. The Georgian president is clearly hoping he can suck the US into the conflict. Alexander Lomaya, secretary of Georgia’s National Security Council, said only Western intervention could prevent all-out war. But it is very unlikely Bush will risk WWIII over this scrap of craggy mountain.
When US puppets get out of line, like a certain Saddam Hussein, they are easily abandoned. Saakashvili would be wise to recall the fate of the first post-Soviet Georgian president, Zviad Gamsakhurdia, also a darling of the US (in 1978 US Congress nominated him for the Nobel Peace Prize). He rode to victory on a wave of nationalism in 1990, declaring independence for Georgia and officially recognising the “Chechen Republic of Ichkeria”. But South Ossetia wanted no part of the fiery Gamsakhurdia’s chauvinistic vision and declared its own “independence”. Engulfed by a wave of disgust a short two years later, abandoned by his US friends, he fled to his beloved Ichkeria. He snuck back into western Georgia, looking for support in restive Abkhazia, but his uprising collapsed, prompting Abkhazia to secede.
Gamsakhurdia died in 1993, leaving the two secessionist provinces as a legacy, and was buried in Chechnya. Saakashvili rehabilitated him in 2004 and had his remains interred in Mtatsminda Pantheon with other Georgian “heroes”. Truth really is stranger than fiction in Georgia. Now the burning question is: will history repeat itself?
I must admit....this is all an interesting planned distraction from Iraq...
some are loving it much more...
almost a relief for some people i think
they planned to sacrifice an ally in an area they already have little influence and risk losing a major pipeline just so they can take Iraq out of the news for a few days (not that the news really talks about it anymore)?
so whats up with Russia and this bullshit "truce" ?
Isnt Russia just defending themselves against a terrorist threat? When Georgia moved in and murdered citizens of South Ossetia it was percieved as a threat. does Russia not have the right to take over the Capital Of Georgia, overthrow the government and occupy their land for up to 100 years? I dont get it. I thought the new standard was to overthrow ANY government that MIGHT one day be a threat to your county and its national security..... That IS U.S. forign policy is it not? why isnt it good enough for the Russians if it is good enough for the United States?
Isnt Russia just defending themselves against a terrorist threat? When Georgia moved in and murdered citizens of South Ossetia it was percieved as a threat. does Russia not have the right to take over the Capital Of Georgia, overthrow the government and occupy their land for up to 100 years? I dont get it. I thought the new standard was to overthrow ANY government that MIGHT one day be a threat to your county and its national security..... That IS U.S. forign policy is it not? why isnt it good enough for the Russians if it is good enough for the United States?
yikes. are you trying to justify russia invading and bombing towns? try really hard to not mention the US in your next post. this is about Russia and Georgia.
yikes. are you trying to justify russia invading and bombing towns? try really hard to not mention the US in your next post. this is about Russia and Georgia.
It is about Georgia and Russia but the US, as well as our allies, are condemning Russia's actions when in fact we are doing the exact same thing in Iraq.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
It is about Georgia and Russia but the US, as well as our allies, are condemning Russia's actions when in fact we are doing the exact same thing in Iraq.
yikes. are you trying to justify russia invading and bombing towns? try really hard to not mention the US in your next post. this is about Russia and Georgia.
Bullshit it is about Russia and Georgia, it is about world affairs. and NO I am not justifying Russia Bombing and invading towns, it is appalling, It just seems asinine for the United States to have anything to say about it. it also seems asinine for all of those on this board that have such a hard on for the Iraq war to condemn this war.... the fact is we have NO credibility whatsoever to even speak on this subject as a nation. Because I live in the United States, i find it hard not to mention my country's abominations when commenting on the actions of other countries implementing our foreign policy. if you don't agree with the comparison, tell me where I am wrong, tell me why Russia invading a sovereign nation because it could possibly one day pose a threat to them differs from the U.S. invading a sovereign nation under the same rational. or maybe you would prefer just to tell me not to bring up the United States as if the hypocrisy of out condemnation is not embarrassing and laughable.
Bullshit it is about Russia and Georgia, it is about world affairs. and NO I am not justifying Russia Bombing and invading towns, it is appalling, It just seems asinine for the United States to have anything to say about it. it also seems asinine for all of those on this board that have such a hard on for the Iraq war to condemn this war.... the fact is we have NO credibility whatsoever to even speak on this subject as a nation. Because I live in the United States, i find it hard not to mention my country's abominations when commenting on the actions of other countries implementing our foreign policy. if you don't agree with the comparison, tell me where I am wrong, tell me why Russia invading a sovereign nation because it could possibly one day pose a threat to them differs from the U.S. invading a sovereign nation under the same rational. or maybe you would prefer just to tell me not to bring up the United States as if the hypocrisy of out condemnation is not embarrassing and laughable.
you want the difference? we invaded Iraq with the goal of regime change and to make it a democratic Iraqi nation.
what is Russia doing? has yet to be seen I guess. appears however they are trying to extend their own borders permanently.
you want the difference? we invaded Iraq with the goal of regime change and to make it a democratic Iraqi nation.
what is Russia doing? has yet to be seen I guess. appears however they are trying to extend their own borders permanently.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
reason number 345,834,823 why we invaded Iraq. I certainly do not remember being told we were going to invade Iraq "with the goal of regime change and to make it a democratic Iraqi nation." can you give me a link to that justification in the build up to the war please? and why is Cotton Hill still justifying the war by saying Iraq was attempting to build weapons of mass destruction and that if left unchecked they could have one day posed a threat to us? and why is he screaming about how wrong Russia is for following HIS foreign policy?
I see other countries should do as we say not as we do. So Russia attacking Georgia is bad, but us attacking Iraq or Israel attacking Lebanon or NATO attacking Bosnia is good. I don't necessarily agree with Russia's actions but some of you need to be a bit more consistantt. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
reason number 345,834,823 why we invaded Iraq. I certainly do not remember being told we were going to invade Iraq "with the goal of regime change and to make it a democratic Iraqi nation." can you give me a link to that justification in the build up to the war please? and why is Cotton Hill still justifying the war by saying Iraq was attempting to build weapons of mass destruction and that if left unchecked they could have one day posed a threat to us? and why is he screaming about how wrong Russia is for following HIS foreign policy?
calm down jezuz.
no I'm not going to provide a "link" my point is that our goal in Iraq is different from russia's goal in georgia. do you know the history of the region? or the USSR?
I see other countries should do as we say not as we do. So Russia attacking Georgia is bad, but us attacking Iraq or Israel attacking Lebanon or NATO attacking Bosnia is good. I don't necessarily agree with Russia's actions but some of you need to be a bit more consistantt. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander.
who said attacking Iraq and attacking Lebanon is good?
I see other countries should do as we say not as we do. So Russia attacking Georgia is bad, but us attacking Iraq or Israel attacking Lebanon or NATO attacking Bosnia is good. I don't necessarily agree with Russia's actions but some of you need to be a bit more consistantt. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander.
NATO attacking Bosnia was UN-mandated, not unilateral, and was (arguably) for a much better reason than attacking Iraq or Lebanon. Not quite the same thing. I think the Russian "peacekeeping" stance might be valid, had they decided to stay in South Ossetia proper instead of actually invading Georgia.
Isnt Russia just defending themselves against a terrorist threat? When Georgia moved in and murdered citizens of South Ossetia it was percieved as a threat. does Russia not have the right to take over the Capital Of Georgia, overthrow the government and occupy their land for up to 100 years? I dont get it. I thought the new standard was to overthrow ANY government that MIGHT one day be a threat to your county and its national security..... That IS U.S. forign policy is it not? why isnt it good enough for the Russians if it is good enough for the United States?
so which is it? are they both wrong or both ok? at least be consistent. people keep bringing up this point when few here seem to be disagreeing with them. its a huge oversimplification anyway.
personally, i dont think its so cut and dry, one doesnt automatically justify the other.
so which is it? are they both wrong or both ok? at least be consistent. people keep bringing up this point when few here seem to be disagreeing with them. its a huge oversimplification anyway.
personally, i dont think its so cut and dry, one doesnt automatically justify the other.
Agreed, no one on here seems willing to argue that BOTH the U.S. and Russia can be justified in occupying another state, but the same people seem to be saying that Russia might be justified, because the U.S. invaded Iraq? Its kind of confusing, and I am having trouble cutting through the general anti-U.S. sentiment and figuring out what people's opinions about RUSSIA are ...
Agreed, no one on here seems willing to argue that BOTH the U.S. and Russia can be justified in occupying another state, but the same people seem to be saying that Russia might be justified, because the U.S. invaded Iraq? Its kind of confusing, and I am having trouble cutting through the general anti-U.S. sentiment and figuring out what people's opinions about RUSSIA are ...
yeah, its mostly just knee-jerk anti-US reaction. so silly.
no I'm not going to provide a "link" my point is that our goal in Iraq is different from russia's goal in georgia. do you know the history of the region? or the USSR?
Do you know the history of the United States of America? and no, you will not provide me with a "link" because no link exists.. and that was simply NOT the rational for invading Iraq. you know it as well as I do.... Look, I don't agree with what Russia is doing, but you need to realize that how you feel about Russia is how most of the world feels about the United States, both countries are acting in an irresponsible, and grotesque manner. some of us are able to see that and others reuse to see it, it does not make it any less true, and why should Russia care what the rest of the world thinks, the United States certainly has no regard for what the world thinks about us... unless they approve us us, then we can make campaign commercials making fun of anyone that gives the world hope that we can change course.... If a Russian candidate runs under the theory that the war against Georgia was wrong, and the rest of the world cheers for him instead of protests him, I bet he will be perceived as a worthless celebrity as well huh?
who said attacking Iraq and attacking Lebanon is good?
Well for starters many of the same world leaders who are now condemning Russia. The point is that yes Russia crossing into Georgia has completely crossed the line and turned, what was, a justifiable military actions into an aggressive invasion. I figured that much was pretty clear, but what can you expect when we and Israel have already set the status quo as to what is acceptable military action. I mean for Christ's sake, the US ambassador to the UN was stating that the free world would not stand by while one country invaded another sovereign country. He must be shitting me, or have a very short memory span, because that is exactly what we did with Iraq and Israel with Lebanon. The president has been set and none of our leader have any moral authority left to stand there and condemn Russia's action regardless of how inappropriate they are.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
so which is it? are they both wrong or both ok? at least be consistent. people keep bringing up this point when few here seem to be disagreeing with them. its a huge oversimplification anyway.
personally, i dont think its so cut and dry, one doesnt automatically justify the other.
to be clear BOTH ARE WRONG... BOTH ARE DISGUSTING. My point is that for George Bush or Cotton Hill to act as if Russia is wrong for implementing their foreign policy is embarrassing. I have the standing to say Russia is wrong, what is confusing is all the Pro bush policy people on this board condemning Russia.
Well for starters many of the same world leaders who are now condemning Russia. The point is that yes Russia crossing into Georgia has completely crossed the line and turned, what was, a justifiable military actions into an aggressive invasion. I figured that much was pretty clear, but what can you expect when we and Israel have already set the status quo as to what is acceptable military action. I mean for Christ's sake, the US ambassador to the UN was stating that the free world would not stand by while one country invaded another sovereign country. He must be shitting me, or have a very short memory span, because that is exactly what we did with Iraq and Israel with Lebanon. The president has been set and none of our leader have any moral authority left to stand there and condemn Russia's action regardless of how inappropriate they are.
Well, I see your point, but its worth mentioning that the UN did NOT support Israel's actions in Lebanon. In fact, the UN decries pretty much everything Israel does. This is not a pot-shot at the UN, just a statement of fact. Let's say Israel takes a collective sneeze ... The UN would surely accuse them of deploying some sort of newly-developed chemical weapon against Arabs.
Do you know the history of the United States of America? and no, you will not provide me with a "link" because no link exists.. and that was simply NOT the rational for invading Iraq. you know it as well as I do.... Look, I don't agree with what Russia is doing, but you need to realize that how you feel about Russia is how most of the world feels about the United States, both countries are acting in an irresponsible, and grotesque manner. some of us are able to see that and others reuse to see it, it does not make it any less true, and why should Russia care what the rest of the world thinks, the United States certainly has no regard for what the world thinks about us... unless they approve us us, then we can make campaign commercials making fun of anyone that gives the world hope that we can change course.... If a Russian candidate runs under the theory that the war against Georgia was wrong, and the rest of the world cheers for him instead of protests him, I bet he will be perceived as a worthless celebrity as well huh?
Comments
Is this hypocrisy, or am I missing something? Are there 5 year old running this country?
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/12/georgia.us/index.html
And from Iran as well.
You know... you are proving that my original assessment was correct.
Hail, Hail!!!
Well, that's just like your opinion, man. And opinions are just like a-holes - everybody has one.
planned? the USA planned (as a distraction) this invasion of Georgia? is that what you are saying?
Last week, Georgia launched a major military offensive against the rebel province South Ossetia, just hours after President Mikheil Saakashvili had announced a unilateral ceasefire. Close to 1,500 have been killed, Russian officials say. Thirty thousand refugees, mostly women and children, streamed across the border into the North Ossetian capital Vladikavkaz in Russia.
The timing — and subterfuge — suggest the unscrupulous Saakashvili was counting on surprise. “Most decision makers have gone for the holidays,” he said in an interview with CNN. “Brilliant moment to attack a small country.” Apparently he was referring to Russia invading Georgia, despite the fact that it was Georgia which had just launched a full-scale invasion of the “small country” South Ossetia, while Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin was in Beijing for the Olympics. Twenty-seven Russian peacekeepers and troops have been killed and 150 wounded so far, many when their barracks were shelled by Georgian forces at the start of the invasion. Georgian State Minister for Reintegration Temur Yakobashvili rushed to announce that their mini-blitzkreig had destroyed ten Russian combat planes (Russia says two) and that Georgian troops were in full control of the capital Tskhinvali.
Russia’s Defense Ministry denounced the Georgian attack as a “dirty adventure.” From Beijing, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said, “It is regrettable that on the day before the opening of the Olympic Games, the Georgian authorities have undertaken aggressive actions in South Ossetia.” He later added, “War has started.” Russian President Dmitry Medvedev vowed that Moscow will protect Russian citizens — most South Ossetians hold Russian passports. The offensive prompted Moscow to send in 150 tanks, to launch air strikes on nearby Gori and military sites, and to order warships to Georgia’s Black Sea coast.
Georgia’s national security council declared a state of war with Russia and a full military mobilisation. US military planes are already flying Georgia’s 2,000 troops in Iraq — the third-largest force after the United States and Britain — back to confront the Russians. By Sunday, despite early claims of victory, Georgian troops had retreated from South Ossetia, leaving diplomatic rubble behind which will be very hard to clear. Truth is stranger than fiction in Georgia.
The writing has been on the wall for months. Georgian President Saakashvili’s fawning over Western leaders at the “emergency” NATO meeting in April and his pre-election anti-Russian bluster in May made it clear to all that Georgia is the more-than-willing canary in the Eastern mine shaft. The Georgian attack on South Ossetia’s capital Tskhinvali — I repeat — just hours after Saakashvili declared a cease-fire, looks very much like an attempt to reincorporate the rebel province into Georgia unilaterally. But whoever is advising the brash young president ignores the postscript — no pasaran! South Ossetia has been independent for 16 years and is not likely to drape flowers on invading Georgia tanks. It also just happens to have Russia as patron.
The aftershocks of this wild gamble by Saakashvili are just beginning. This is Russia’s most serious altercation with a foreign country since the collapse of the Soviet Union and could escalate into an all-out war engulfing much of the Caucasus region. Russian warships are not planning to block shipments of oil from Georgia’s Black Sea port of Poti, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin said on Sunday, but reserve the right to search ships coming to and from it. Another source naval source said, “The crews are assigned the task to not allow arms and military hardware supplies to reach Georgia by sea.” The Russians have already sunk a Georgian missile boat that was trying to attack Russian ships. Upping the ante, Ukraine said it reserved the right to bar Russian warships from returning to their nominally Ukrainian — formerly Russian — base of Sevastopol , on the Crimean peninsula. On Saturday, Russia accused Ukraine of “arming the Georgians to the teeth.”
Georgia’s other separatist region, Abkhazia, was mobilising its forces for a push into the Kodori Gorge, the only part of Abkhazia controlled by Georgia. “No dialogue is possible with the current Georgian leadership,” said Abkhazia’s President Sergei Bagapsh. “They are state criminals who must be tried for the crimes committed in South Ossetia, the genocide of the Ossetian people.” Britain has ordered its nationals to leave Georgia. British charity worker Sian Davis said, “It’s really, really quiet, eerily quiet. Everyone was either at home or had packed up and moved out of the city. People are really, really scared. People are panicking.” So far the more than 2,000 US nationals in this tiny but strategic country are mostly staying put.
This is yet another made-in-the-USA war. US President George W Bush loudly supported Georgia’s request to join NATO in April, much to the consternation of European leaders. NATO promised to send advisers in December. Not losing any time, the US sent more than 1,000 US Marines and soldiers to the Vaziani military base on the South Ossetian border in July “to teach combat skills to Georgian troops.” The UN Security Council failed to reach an agreement on the current crisis after three emergency meetings. A Russian-drafted statement that called on Georgia and the separatists to “renounce the use of force” was vetoed by the US, UK and France. To dispel any conceivable doubt, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Friday: “We call on Russia to cease attacks on Georgia by aircraft and missiles, respect Georgia’s territorial integrity, and withdraw its ground combat forces from Georgian soil.”
But it’s also yet another made-in-Israel war. A thousand military advisers from Israeli security firms have been training the country’s armed forces and were deeply involved in the Georgian army’s preparations to attack and capture the capital of South Ossetia, according to the Israeli web site Debkafiles which has close links with the regime’s intelligence and military sources. Haaretz reported that Yakobashvili told Army Radio — in Hebrew, “ Israel should be proud of its military which trained Georgian soldiers.” “We killed 60 Russian soldiers just yesterday,” he boasted on Monday. “The Russians have lost more than 50 tanks, and we have shot down 11 of their planes. They have enormous damage in terms of manpower.” He warned that the Russians would try and open another battlefront in Abkhazia and denied reports that the Georgian army was retreating. “The Georgian forces are not retreating. We move our military according to security needs.”
Israelis are active in real estate, tourism, gaming, military manufacturing and security consulting in Georgia, including former Tel Aviv mayor Roni Milo and Likudite and gambling operator Reuven Gavrieli. “The Russians don't look kindly on the military cooperation of Israeli firms with the Georgian army, and as far as I know, Israelis doing security consulting left Georgia in the past few days because of the events there,” the former Israeli ambassador to Georgia and Armenia, Baruch Ben Neria, said yesterday. Since his posting, Ben Neria has represented Rafael Advanced Defense Systems in Georgia .
By Sunday, Putin was in Vladikavkaz and said it is unlikely South Ossetia will ever be reintegrated into Georgia. There are really only two possible scenarios to end the conflict: a long-term stalemate or Russian annexation of South Ossetia. The former is beginning to look pretty good, and Saakashvili is probably already ruing his rash move. The Georgian president is clearly hoping he can suck the US into the conflict. Alexander Lomaya, secretary of Georgia’s National Security Council, said only Western intervention could prevent all-out war. But it is very unlikely Bush will risk WWIII over this scrap of craggy mountain.
When US puppets get out of line, like a certain Saddam Hussein, they are easily abandoned. Saakashvili would be wise to recall the fate of the first post-Soviet Georgian president, Zviad Gamsakhurdia, also a darling of the US (in 1978 US Congress nominated him for the Nobel Peace Prize). He rode to victory on a wave of nationalism in 1990, declaring independence for Georgia and officially recognising the “Chechen Republic of Ichkeria”. But South Ossetia wanted no part of the fiery Gamsakhurdia’s chauvinistic vision and declared its own “independence”. Engulfed by a wave of disgust a short two years later, abandoned by his US friends, he fled to his beloved Ichkeria. He snuck back into western Georgia, looking for support in restive Abkhazia, but his uprising collapsed, prompting Abkhazia to secede.
Gamsakhurdia died in 1993, leaving the two secessionist provinces as a legacy, and was buried in Chechnya. Saakashvili rehabilitated him in 2004 and had his remains interred in Mtatsminda Pantheon with other Georgian “heroes”. Truth really is stranger than fiction in Georgia. Now the burning question is: will history repeat itself?
you make so much sense.
Isnt Russia just defending themselves against a terrorist threat? When Georgia moved in and murdered citizens of South Ossetia it was percieved as a threat. does Russia not have the right to take over the Capital Of Georgia, overthrow the government and occupy their land for up to 100 years? I dont get it. I thought the new standard was to overthrow ANY government that MIGHT one day be a threat to your county and its national security..... That IS U.S. forign policy is it not? why isnt it good enough for the Russians if it is good enough for the United States?
yikes. are you trying to justify russia invading and bombing towns? try really hard to not mention the US in your next post. this is about Russia and Georgia.
It is about Georgia and Russia but the US, as well as our allies, are condemning Russia's actions when in fact we are doing the exact same thing in Iraq.
so what?
Bullshit it is about Russia and Georgia, it is about world affairs. and NO I am not justifying Russia Bombing and invading towns, it is appalling, It just seems asinine for the United States to have anything to say about it. it also seems asinine for all of those on this board that have such a hard on for the Iraq war to condemn this war.... the fact is we have NO credibility whatsoever to even speak on this subject as a nation. Because I live in the United States, i find it hard not to mention my country's abominations when commenting on the actions of other countries implementing our foreign policy. if you don't agree with the comparison, tell me where I am wrong, tell me why Russia invading a sovereign nation because it could possibly one day pose a threat to them differs from the U.S. invading a sovereign nation under the same rational. or maybe you would prefer just to tell me not to bring up the United States as if the hypocrisy of out condemnation is not embarrassing and laughable.
you want the difference? we invaded Iraq with the goal of regime change and to make it a democratic Iraqi nation.
what is Russia doing? has yet to be seen I guess. appears however they are trying to extend their own borders permanently.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
reason number 345,834,823 why we invaded Iraq. I certainly do not remember being told we were going to invade Iraq "with the goal of regime change and to make it a democratic Iraqi nation." can you give me a link to that justification in the build up to the war please? and why is Cotton Hill still justifying the war by saying Iraq was attempting to build weapons of mass destruction and that if left unchecked they could have one day posed a threat to us? and why is he screaming about how wrong Russia is for following HIS foreign policy?
I see other countries should do as we say not as we do. So Russia attacking Georgia is bad, but us attacking Iraq or Israel attacking Lebanon or NATO attacking Bosnia is good. I don't necessarily agree with Russia's actions but some of you need to be a bit more consistantt. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander.
calm down jezuz.
no I'm not going to provide a "link" my point is that our goal in Iraq is different from russia's goal in georgia. do you know the history of the region? or the USSR?
who said attacking Iraq and attacking Lebanon is good?
NATO attacking Bosnia was UN-mandated, not unilateral, and was (arguably) for a much better reason than attacking Iraq or Lebanon. Not quite the same thing. I think the Russian "peacekeeping" stance might be valid, had they decided to stay in South Ossetia proper instead of actually invading Georgia.
exactly. from what I understand they are justified in being in Ossetia. but it has gone well beyond that
personally, i dont think its so cut and dry, one doesnt automatically justify the other.
Agreed, no one on here seems willing to argue that BOTH the U.S. and Russia can be justified in occupying another state, but the same people seem to be saying that Russia might be justified, because the U.S. invaded Iraq? Its kind of confusing, and I am having trouble cutting through the general anti-U.S. sentiment and figuring out what people's opinions about RUSSIA are ...
Do you know the history of the United States of America? and no, you will not provide me with a "link" because no link exists.. and that was simply NOT the rational for invading Iraq. you know it as well as I do.... Look, I don't agree with what Russia is doing, but you need to realize that how you feel about Russia is how most of the world feels about the United States, both countries are acting in an irresponsible, and grotesque manner. some of us are able to see that and others reuse to see it, it does not make it any less true, and why should Russia care what the rest of the world thinks, the United States certainly has no regard for what the world thinks about us... unless they approve us us, then we can make campaign commercials making fun of anyone that gives the world hope that we can change course.... If a Russian candidate runs under the theory that the war against Georgia was wrong, and the rest of the world cheers for him instead of protests him, I bet he will be perceived as a worthless celebrity as well huh?
Well for starters many of the same world leaders who are now condemning Russia. The point is that yes Russia crossing into Georgia has completely crossed the line and turned, what was, a justifiable military actions into an aggressive invasion. I figured that much was pretty clear, but what can you expect when we and Israel have already set the status quo as to what is acceptable military action. I mean for Christ's sake, the US ambassador to the UN was stating that the free world would not stand by while one country invaded another sovereign country. He must be shitting me, or have a very short memory span, because that is exactly what we did with Iraq and Israel with Lebanon. The president has been set and none of our leader have any moral authority left to stand there and condemn Russia's action regardless of how inappropriate they are.
to be clear BOTH ARE WRONG... BOTH ARE DISGUSTING. My point is that for George Bush or Cotton Hill to act as if Russia is wrong for implementing their foreign policy is embarrassing. I have the standing to say Russia is wrong, what is confusing is all the Pro bush policy people on this board condemning Russia.
Well, I see your point, but its worth mentioning that the UN did NOT support Israel's actions in Lebanon. In fact, the UN decries pretty much everything Israel does. This is not a pot-shot at the UN, just a statement of fact. Let's say Israel takes a collective sneeze ... The UN would surely accuse them of deploying some sort of newly-developed chemical weapon against Arabs.
i'm serious. do you know the history of the area?
And what if one of our military jets dropping supplies off gets shot at by Russian's. Does this mean nuclear holocaust tomorrow?