Well for starters many of the same world leaders who are now condemning Russia. The point is that yes Russia crossing into Georgia has completely crossed the line and turned, what was, a justifiable military actions into an aggressive invasion. I figured that much was pretty clear, but what can you expect when we and Israel have already set the status quo as to what is acceptable military action. I mean for Christ's sake, the US ambassador to the UN was stating that the free world would not stand by while one country invaded another sovereign country. He must be shitting me, or have a very short memory span, because that is exactly what we did with Iraq and Israel with Lebanon. The president has been set and none of our leader have any moral authority left to stand there and condemn Russia's action regardless of how inappropriate they are.
this is true. but the thing is, Russia has a history of invading other countries and calling them their own. I think thats what the world is worried about.
the US and Israel may have been wrong but they were not trying to extend their borders.
Or poor? Or no resources? Your guess is as good of mine..
Glad you didn't get mad about the joke ... I see your point. Oil? Who knows? Everyone pretty much ignores the genocide that happens in Darfur ... Its ridiculous.
Glad you didn't get mad about the joke ... I see your point. Oil? Who knows? Everyone pretty much ignores the genocide that happens in Darfur ... Its ridiculous.
It just pisses me off that we are so quick to butt in on Russia and Georgia. It's like our government wants to usher in WW3.. We have much bigger things to worry about that affect us more directly than getting into a suicidal shoving match with Russia.. If we really wanted to play humanitarian hero, what about Africa is all I'm saying..
It just pisses me off that we are so quick to butt in on Russia and Georgia. It's like our government wants to usher in WW3.. We have much bigger things to worry about that affect us more directly than getting into a suicidal shoving match with Russia.. If we really wanted to play humanitarian hero, what about Africa is all I'm saying..
Its is all subtle (or not so subtle) political games ... The West shores up its allies, Russia shores up theirs ... Its a dance that's been happening for decades, despite the Cold War supposedly being over.
Well, I see your point, but its worth mentioning that the UN did NOT support Israel's actions in Lebanon. In fact, the UN decries pretty much everything Israel does. This is not a pot-shot at the UN, just a statement of fact. Let's say Israel takes a collective sneeze ... The UN would surely accuse them of deploying some sort of newly-developed chemical weapon against Arabs.
Maybe I should have expressed my view better. I am not in agreement with Russia's actions. The minute they crossed the boarder into Georgia their actions became unjustifiable, in my book. My main gripe is hearing people like Bush, and other members of his administration, or people who supported/support the invasion of Iraq condemn Russia. I guess I'm just sick and tired of the double standard our government expects the rest of the world to live by. I'm not saying that Russia has the right to invade Georgia simply because we invaded Iraq or Israel invaded Lebanon. I'm stating that the people who commanded/ordered/supported these actions really have no right to condemn the Russians in this case when the Russians are simply following their playbook.
I'm also aware that the UN has it out for Israel but let's be honest Israel's invasion of Lebanon was completely uncalled for. I believe that israel has a right to exist and that it has a right to protect itself and it people from harm, but the invasion of Lebanon was nothing more than an a heavy handed use of brutal force for the sake of revenge.
Our leaders also have to come to the realization that our actions have consequences and sometimes it produces a completely different reaction than we anticipated. (Let me say that I don't blame the US in any way shape or form for what is happening in Georgia before I go on.) We have been pushing the Russians into a corner since the end of the Cold War and they finally bit back. We can not expect the world to just let us do as we please with any consequences. So if we determine that pre-emptive military action against another sovereign nation is acceptable then we have to expect other nations to follow course.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
this is true. but the thing is, Russia has a history of invading other countries and calling them their own. I think thats what the world is worried about.
the US and Israel may have been wrong but they were not trying to extend their borders.
Yes Russia does have a bad habit of doing that. I'm not going to argue that point and I definitely understand the concern of Russia returning to her old ways. But in my book I don't really see much of a difference between invasion and domination verses invasion and creation of a puppet government.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Yes Russia does have a bad habit of doing that. I'm not going to argue that point and I definitely understand the concern of Russia returning to her old ways. But in my book I don't really see much of a difference between invasion and domination verses invasion and creation of a puppet government.
o I see a huge difference. HUGE. but to all his own.
Maybe I should have expressed my view better. I am not in agreement with Russia's actions. The minute they crossed the boarder into Georgia their actions became unjustifiable, in my book. My main gripe is hearing people like Bush, and other members of his administration, or people who supported/support the invasion of Iraq condemn Russia. I guess I'm just sick and tired of the double standard our government expects the rest of the world to live by. I'm not saying that Russia has the right to invade Georgia simply because we invaded Iraq or Israel invaded Lebanon. I'm stating that the people who commanded/ordered/supported these actions really have no right to condemn the Russians in this case when the Russians are simply following their playbook.
I'm also aware that the UN has it out for Israel but let's be honest Israel's invasion of Lebanon was completely uncalled for. I believe that israel has a right to exist and that it has a right to protect itself and it people from harm, but the invasion of Lebanon was nothing more than an a heavy handed use of brutal force for the sake of revenge.
Our leaders also have to come to the realization that our actions have consequences and sometimes it produces a completely different reaction than we anticipated. (Let me say that I don't blame the US in any way shape or form for what is happening in Georgia before I go on.) We have been pushing the Russians into a corner since the end of the Cold War and they finally bit back. We can not expect the world to just let us do as we please with any consequences. So if we determine that pre-emptive military action against another sovereign nation is acceptable then we have to expect other nations to follow course.
Agreed. My view is that the Russians are less like a dog that's been baited too many times and more like the little brother who has always been trying to outdo his older counterpart ... But yeah. I am picking up what you are putting down.
o I see a huge difference. HUGE. but to all his own.
It's just different methods of expanded your influence across the globe. Russia was always more straight forward. The Red Army rolled in and you where now part of the Soviet Union. The US was always a bit more secretive and cloak & dagger about it. A little coup here a little coup there, sprinkle a little rebellious uprisings in between.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
It's just different methods of expanded your influence across the globe. Russia was always more straight forward. The Red Army rolled in and you where now part of the Soviet Union. The US was always a bit more secretive and cloak & dagger about it. A little coup here a little coup there, sprinkle a little rebellious uprisings in between.
yes different methods. but with some very big differences.
yes different methods. but with some very big differences.
Tell that to the people who where oppressed under US backed dictators. I'm sure their oppression was no different than that suffered under the Iron Curtain.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
It just pisses me off that we are so quick to butt in on Russia and Georgia. It's like our government wants to usher in WW3.. We have much bigger things to worry about that affect us more directly than getting into a suicidal shoving match with Russia.. If we really wanted to play humanitarian hero, what about Africa is all I'm saying..
i agree basically, but i would hope our governement takes our own people's defense into account when making decisions about which conflicts to butt in on (not that they do). that is why we elect them, after all. i'm not so sure we should try to be world police, but if the choice between putting out one fire over another comes down to one being more of a threat to us, thats not automatically bad.
Seems to me like they've already picked the Georgian side ... Humanitarian aid is flying in as we speak, and we probably aren't hearing about the Stinger missiles (good against MiGs) and other sundry military goodies.
anyone who thinks US has no part in this is a sillyhead...
US established the puppet Saakashvili as president, trained Georgian fighters, tried to get Georgia in NATO.
Georgia supplied the second most troops to Iraq (2000) behind Britain.
Yeah...The US is never this quick with 'aid' unless it's a cover for something.
Hurricane Katrina took weeks, this...a few day's.
And the Russian president is going on about never giving up and that the russians are ruthless, with talk like that, I bet he's getting the best goods, perhaps the wish list israel wanted from the US has been re directed to Georgia?
anyone who thinks US has no part in this is a sillyhead...
US established the puppet Saakashvili as president, trained Georgian fighters, tried to get Georgia in NATO.
Georgia supplied the second most troops to Iraq (2000) behind Britain.
Wiki NED and NATO to further your thought.
Nice, so we should care about Georgia because it supplied us with troops in Bush's fabricated war with Iraq. Lets shovel more shit on the fire.
anyone who thinks US has no part in this is a sillyhead...
US established the puppet Saakashvili as president, trained Georgian fighters, tried to get Georgia in NATO.
Georgia supplied the second most troops to Iraq (2000) behind Britain.
Wiki NED and NATO to further your thought.
maybe, maybe not, but those points only really prove that Georgia is our ally, which isn't a secret. the first point is debatable, but as for the other two: what are allies supposed to do? i would hope we train and arm all our allies if needed, and bringing them into NATO only validates the alliance.
those arent good examples of proof is all i'm saying.
i'm curious what some people here think an alliance between countries is.
maybe, maybe not, but those points only really prove that Georgia is our ally, which isn't a secret. the first point is debatable, but as for the other two: what are allies supposed to do? i would hope we train and arm all our allies if needed, and bringing them into NATO only validates the alliance.
those arent good examples of proof is all i'm saying.
i'm curious what some people here think an alliance between countries is.
it doesnt matter whether Georgia's president is a madman or not. russia is a massive, powerful country. their actions have caused the death of hundreds of innocents. being the big powerful country they should set the example. they have the responsibility. they have acted irresponsibly, doing exactly what the georgian president wanted i'll wager. (he wanted to provoke them blatently).
i'm with georgians on this one. i think the russian set up is disgusting.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
A fragile cease-fire appeared even more shaky as Russia's foreign minister declared that the world "can forget about any talk about Georgia's territorial integrity."
Yep ... The Russians seem intent on annexing two chunks of Georgia, and also seem intent on using scorched earth tactics as they withdraw. Nice. If nothing else, though, the U.S. will be that much more inclined to up military aid to Georgia, the more material the Russians destroy. What a bunch of toads, though. Peacekeepers my ass.
a warning for such disgusting photos would be nice.
I am no military pathologist or anything, but it looks like those guys were killed by artilllery or rocket fire. Graphic stuff. I kind of wished I hadn't seen that ... If anything, it makes me even less inclined to sympathize with the Russians than I already was.
Comments
Yes, Kanye. Its because they're black.
this is true. but the thing is, Russia has a history of invading other countries and calling them their own. I think thats what the world is worried about.
the US and Israel may have been wrong but they were not trying to extend their borders.
Glad you didn't get mad about the joke ... I see your point. Oil? Who knows? Everyone pretty much ignores the genocide that happens in Darfur ... Its ridiculous.
Its is all subtle (or not so subtle) political games ... The West shores up its allies, Russia shores up theirs ... Its a dance that's been happening for decades, despite the Cold War supposedly being over.
Maybe I should have expressed my view better. I am not in agreement with Russia's actions. The minute they crossed the boarder into Georgia their actions became unjustifiable, in my book. My main gripe is hearing people like Bush, and other members of his administration, or people who supported/support the invasion of Iraq condemn Russia. I guess I'm just sick and tired of the double standard our government expects the rest of the world to live by. I'm not saying that Russia has the right to invade Georgia simply because we invaded Iraq or Israel invaded Lebanon. I'm stating that the people who commanded/ordered/supported these actions really have no right to condemn the Russians in this case when the Russians are simply following their playbook.
I'm also aware that the UN has it out for Israel but let's be honest Israel's invasion of Lebanon was completely uncalled for. I believe that israel has a right to exist and that it has a right to protect itself and it people from harm, but the invasion of Lebanon was nothing more than an a heavy handed use of brutal force for the sake of revenge.
Our leaders also have to come to the realization that our actions have consequences and sometimes it produces a completely different reaction than we anticipated. (Let me say that I don't blame the US in any way shape or form for what is happening in Georgia before I go on.) We have been pushing the Russians into a corner since the end of the Cold War and they finally bit back. We can not expect the world to just let us do as we please with any consequences. So if we determine that pre-emptive military action against another sovereign nation is acceptable then we have to expect other nations to follow course.
Yes Russia does have a bad habit of doing that. I'm not going to argue that point and I definitely understand the concern of Russia returning to her old ways. But in my book I don't really see much of a difference between invasion and domination verses invasion and creation of a puppet government.
o I see a huge difference. HUGE. but to all his own.
Agreed. My view is that the Russians are less like a dog that's been baited too many times and more like the little brother who has always been trying to outdo his older counterpart ... But yeah. I am picking up what you are putting down.
It's just different methods of expanded your influence across the globe. Russia was always more straight forward. The Red Army rolled in and you where now part of the Soviet Union. The US was always a bit more secretive and cloak & dagger about it. A little coup here a little coup there, sprinkle a little rebellious uprisings in between.
yes different methods. but with some very big differences.
Tell that to the people who where oppressed under US backed dictators. I'm sure their oppression was no different than that suffered under the Iron Curtain.
---
Interesting,
but yeah, ignoring Darfur is pretty pathetic.
Seems to me like they've already picked the Georgian side ... Humanitarian aid is flying in as we speak, and we probably aren't hearing about the Stinger missiles (good against MiGs) and other sundry military goodies.
He's ... Different. I'd still take Putin in a head-to-head insanity contest, though.
US established the puppet Saakashvili as president, trained Georgian fighters, tried to get Georgia in NATO.
Georgia supplied the second most troops to Iraq (2000) behind Britain.
Wiki NED and NATO to further your thought.
Hurricane Katrina took weeks, this...a few day's.
And the Russian president is going on about never giving up and that the russians are ruthless, with talk like that, I bet he's getting the best goods, perhaps the wish list israel wanted from the US has been re directed to Georgia?
what the hell, lmao!
those arent good examples of proof is all i'm saying.
i'm curious what some people here think an alliance between countries is.
Agreed.
i'm with georgians on this one. i think the russian set up is disgusting.
http://milkavkaz.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=12634#12634
(my favorite)
http://img.lenta.ru/photo/2008/08/11/ossetia/11.jpg
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
A fragile cease-fire appeared even more shaky as Russia's foreign minister declared that the world "can forget about any talk about Georgia's territorial integrity."
a warning for such disgusting photos would be nice.
I am no military pathologist or anything, but it looks like those guys were killed by artilllery or rocket fire. Graphic stuff. I kind of wished I hadn't seen that ... If anything, it makes me even less inclined to sympathize with the Russians than I already was.