Based on current and previous posts, it's my opinion that "drifting" uses this board for material he is incorporating into his doctoral thesis on true believers.......
~I want to realize brotherhood or identity not merely with the beings called human, but I want to realize identity with all life, even with such things as crawl upon earth.~
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
Am I the only one who thought of this thread after being taken aback the first time I turned a corner to find a massive display of winking Pepsi eyes? The new logo is just too blatant
Maybe if we took it straight from the horses mouth?
“The Ancient Astronomers saw all the great Symbols of Masonry in the Stars. Sirius still glitters in our Lodges as the Blazing Star , (l’Etoile Flamboyante). The Sun is still symbolized by the point within a Circle; and, with the Moon and Mercury or, Anubis, in the three Great Lights of the Lodge. Not only to these, but to the figures and numbers exhibited by the Stars, were ascribed peculiar and divine powers."
Albert Pike, Sovereign Grand Commander of Scottish Rite Freemasonry Southern Jurisdiction, from his Masonic textbook, Morals and Dogma, on the lessons of “The Knight of the Brazen Serpent”( 25th degree) p.486-7
Logo for the largest bank in the world:
(sometimes, when Asia is depressed, it is the 2nd largest)
I guess now we don't even have to question the "possible" links between Sirius Radio and Freemasonry?
Maybe if we took it straight from the horses mouth?
“The Ancient Astronomers saw all the great Symbols of Masonry in the Stars. Sirius still glitters in our Lodges as the Blazing Star , (l’Etoile Flamboyante). The Sun is still symbolized by the point within a Circle; and, with the Moon and Mercury or, Anubis, in the three Great Lights of the Lodge. Not only to these, but to the figures and numbers exhibited by the Stars, were ascribed peculiar and divine powers."
Albert Pike, Sovereign Grand Commander of Scottish Rite Freemasonry Southern Jurisdiction, from his Masonic textbook, Morals and Dogma, on the lessons of “The Knight of the Brazen Serpent”( 25th degree) p.486-7
Dude, just because some mason talks about sun symbology in the form of circles, doesn't mean that all circles thus are expressions of masonry. Circle is a pretty basic shape that can represent alot of things, including the sun. It can also represent the sun without it being anything fishy masonic about it.
There are millions of random quotes from masons, or mason-associated people (which really broadens the field as to the number of people who can be used to this purpose) that can be taken out of context and applied to anything today. Kinda like you can always find a bible-quote to support just about any standpoint. That some mason at some point talked about sun symbology in the shape of circles, doesnt mean that you today can just look after sun-logos, and then presto, you have the entire conspiracy unfolded, or that there is something fishy about circles in logos.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
There are millions of random quotes from masons, or mason-associated people (which really broadens the field as to the number of people who can be used to this purpose) that can be taken out of context and applied to anything today. Kinda like you can always find a bible-quote to support just about any standpoint.
Maybe if we took it straight from the horses mouth?
“The Ancient Astronomers saw all the great Symbols of Masonry in the Stars. Sirius still glitters in our Lodges as the Blazing Star , (l’Etoile Flamboyante). The Sun is still symbolized by the point within a Circle; and, with the Moon and Mercury or, Anubis, in the three Great Lights of the Lodge. Not only to these, but to the figures and numbers exhibited by the Stars, were ascribed peculiar and divine powers."
Albert Pike, Sovereign Grand Commander of Scottish Rite Freemasonry Southern Jurisdiction, from his Masonic textbook, Morals and Dogma, on the lessons of “The Knight of the Brazen Serpent”( 25th degree) p.486-7
Dude, just because some mason talks about sun symbology in the form of circles, doesn't mean that all circles thus are expressions of masonry. Circle is a pretty basic shape that can represent alot of things, including the sun. It can also represent the sun without it being anything fishy masonic about it.
There are millions of random quotes from masons, or mason-associated people (which really broadens the field as to the number of people who can be used to this purpose) that can be taken out of context and applied to anything today. Kinda like you can always find a bible-quote to support just about any standpoint. That some mason at some point talked about sun symbology in the shape of circles, doesnt mean that you today can just look after sun-logos, and then presto, you have the entire conspiracy unfolded, or that there is something fishy about circles in logos.
Peace
Dan
Hooray for independent thought. :geek:
~I want to realize brotherhood or identity not merely with the beings called human, but I want to realize identity with all life, even with such things as crawl upon earth.~
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
There are millions of random quotes from masons, or mason-associated people (which really broadens the field as to the number of people who can be used to this purpose) that can be taken out of context and applied to anything today. Kinda like you can always find a bible-quote to support just about any standpoint.
Exactly.
Albert Pike isn't exactly just "some mason" or "some dude".
He was the goddamn GRAND COMMANDER of the southern jurisdiction.
He is the INVENTOR OF THE 33rd DEGREE.
NOT just "SOME mason", for fucks sake.
You guys are great.
I'm not pretending like every sun symbol under the ... uh ... sun ... is part of a masonic conspiracy.
What i AM trying to do is wake people up to the fact that there IS the POSSIBILITY that some of this IS in fact connected.
Hey, Soulsing,
wasn't it YOU who was giving me endless shit about "ITS A SHELL" ?
While i still maintain that there is clear intent of double-imagery going on with Shell Gas...
... here it is for you, bub.
Your direct connection.
The great goddess of the masons, of many great religions in fact (not that i consider Masonry to be either great, or a religion, but) ... is Isis.
Isis goes as Aphrodite, or Venus, or, apparently in America as ... COLUMBIA. (she goes as many different names across the ages, including the names, Ishtar, Inanna and Ashtaroth)
[there is even a Shriners (who are part of the Masonic brotherhood, to be clear) Female African American Auxiliary organization called The Daughters of ISIS ... HMM...]
Yes, "Columbia", as in DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, as in The Capitol of our Country founded in LARGE part by FREEMASONS ...
HERE IT IS, SOULSINGING. PAY ATTENTION:
Second Century BC Greek Sculpture of Aphrodite
which INCLUDES ONE OF HER SYMBOLS ON HER FLANK (another being the OWL, like on the dollar bill, or surrounding the White House, oh no!):
OMFG!
oh no!
Danger Will Robinson
Danger!
Undeniable links to occult symbology abound!
But your point is taken.
EVERYTHING can't be part of a conspiracy,
right?
You guys and your denial though.
Its pretty funny.
You can't admit ANYthing.
Once again,
WHAT, pray tell, do you THINK this symbolism is representing?
and from WHENCE do you think it is derived?
[say "the dollar bill" or "the great seal" and you will be in danger of winning the ignorant and obtuse man of the year award. How many images of masonic pyramid and eyes that CLEARLY PREDATE THE US GREAT SEAL do i have to show you ?]
You think DARPA just like pyramids and eyes?
Same as the freemasons?
Very old masonic seal with Eye in Pyramid at the top
Really?
Truly?
Really trully?
Seriously?
Come on now.
I may be running the hunt overboard,
but you guys are in flat out DENIAL!
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Deliberately self-maintained ignorance and denial is NOT "independent thought".
It is actually a form of neurosis which is probably best associated with a psychological phenomenon called "cognitive dissonance".
Essentially this means that when one is confronted with evidence, an idea, or information that directly contradicts previously and deeply held notions (like beliefs about the fundamental nature of your world or your country, or yourSELF), that such an idea\evidence\or information is likely to produce dissonance.
The Cognitive Dissonance Theory holds that when one is confronted with such a conflicting idea that said person is likely to either DENY, JUSTIFY, RATIONALIZE, or employ other EGO DEFENSE mechanisms as a method to block the intruding and conflicting viewpoint from causing mental anguish to the subject.
In other words, Soulsinging has a long and previously held world view which does not support the model which this symbolism evidence supports, and therefore, via the mechanism of Cognitive Dissonance is attempting to alternately either rationalize to oblivion, flat out deny or justify through irrationality any of the conflicting information that i am putting forward because it is causing him severe mental anguish to contemplate the possibility that his previous world view and self concept (his view of himself and his position in his world) are based on a incomplete and possibly flawed model of the worlds operation.
But i would NOT call it "independent thought".
Healthy skepticism is a valuable trait.
Wanton denial of what is clearly not just random happenstance is just a stupid ego defense mechanism.
The only person that would (or should) be proud would be Dr. Freud,
because this is a classic representative example of a great psychological concept.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Here is my favorite "crazy" little buddy, Freeman, giving you his 50 minute rundown on The Goddess Columbia, her symbols, their meanings, their relationships to certain things, and some great ramblings.
The more i read and listen to Freeman, the less crazy i think him.
Stil not sure about all this Fish People stuff, though.
lol.
ps - i think Freeman IS wrong about one thing. Christopher Columbus (best i can make out) was probably a PORTUGUESE JEW, working as an agent for the British crown (Portugal still maintaining the oldest written alliance with Britain), and NOT a Greek. This would even better explain his "Kabalistic Cypher" used as his signature. Jews being deeply entwined with Kabalism. Actually if you look in to it, his cypher is, in deed, the strongest clue to his possible Portuguese Jewish heritage. (don't forget that Kabalism, Templars, and Masons are also all entwined to some degree)
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I thoroughly enjoy all your threads and posts. They are full of ideas and information that I would never be aware of otherwise. However, I'm not sure that any of the material you provide can be considered undeniably factual, especially when it's from what we might term "ancient" history. A good example is the Bible. Practically every parable in it can be found in Greek and Roman mythology that existed before Christ was even born.
Everything is subject to interpretation - it's all theoretical, with the exception of scientific and mathmatical data, and even some of it is theoretical isn't it?
When you ask people to believe, you ask them to close off their ability to impartially see, hear and internalize. In other words, I'm a student of Eric Hoffer's philosophy. And I totally agree with you, Soulsinging has his own set of comfortable beliefs that preclude him from considering the possibilities of what you have presented. But there really isn't a right or wrong, fact or fiction, just emotion backing up different sets of beliefs/theories.
Please continue to post and start all your interesting and informational threads man. I ALWAYS look to see what you've got going on under A Moving Train. But don't let people upset you if they don't buy in. You're a brilliant guy with interesting perspectives. Not everyone is that gifted.
~I want to realize brotherhood or identity not merely with the beings called human, but I want to realize identity with all life, even with such things as crawl upon earth.~
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
I thoroughly enjoy all your threads and posts. They are full of ideas and information that I would never be aware of otherwise. However, I'm not sure that any of the material you provide can be considered undeniably factual, especially when it's from what we might term "ancient" history. A good example is the Bible. Practically every parable in it can be found in Greek and Roman mythology that existed before Christ was even born.
Everything is subject to interpretation - it's all theoretical, with the exception of scientific and mathmatical data, and even some of it is theoretical isn't it?
When you ask people to believe, you ask them to close off their ability to impartially see, hear and internalize. In other words, I'm a student of Eric Hoffer's philosophy. And I totally agree with you, Soulsinging has his own set of comfortable beliefs that preclude him from considering the possibilities of what you have presented. But there really isn't a right or wrong, fact or fiction, just emotion backing up different sets of beliefs/theories.
Please continue to post and start all your interesting and informational threads man. I ALWAYS look to see what you've got going on under A Moving Train. But don't let people upset you if they don't buy in. You're a brilliant guy with interesting perspectives. Not everyone is that gifted.
I agree with most all of what you have written here.
Except (primarily) for one thing.
i am not asking ANYone to "BELIEVE".
I am asking them to stop ignorantly denying based on the gestalt of their own preconceived mental constructs.
In other words, you don't have to agree with me at ALL.
But your arguments should be more consistent and poignant than simply stating some truism like "quotes can be taken out of context" or what have you.
Such statements simply prove to me that the reader has failed to do even the most basic INQUIRY of their own in to the subject matter. And that gets us back to what i AM asking of those that read here. PLEASE MAKE YOUR OWN UNBIASED INQUIRIES in to the nature of your world.
Do not simply go on the preconceptions of what we deem to be "modern science".
Science, "modern" in every era (meaning science 2000 years ago was considered "modern" at the time), has always proved to fail miserably at addressing certain fundamental and underlying pieces of our reality.
To deny yourself the most essential act of personal inquiry on the basis of following scientific, "rational", or "skeptical" dogma is to deny yourself the possibility of coming to a greater and fuller awareness of your own universe, and ultimately of our own self.
So i'm not asking anyone to blindly agree with or "believe" me or what i present here.
However, when after pages of factual historical documentation of certain undeniable claims -- like the FACT that the Eye in the Pyramid is a hundreds of years old symbol with direct ties to Freemasonry -- i still get people outright denying ANY possibility of there being a connection between agencies\institutions\corporations that use this or similar symbols i just have to SHAKE MY HEAD.
Its not that i am personally upset that you do not BELIEVE me.
It is that i am upset, from the standpoint of a compassionate and truth-seeking human being, that my fellow man can not, will not, and seems not to care to validate or invalidate for him\herself the information i have presented.
EVERY SINGLE ONE of Soulsinging's DENIALS has stemmed NOT from any factual couterclaim to my presentation, but directly from RHETORIC.
I'm not trying to play a "he said, she said" game.
I'm asking people to consider for themselves, with an OPEN MIND, the information presented.
But please don't belittle me by returning the favor (my time here) with empty words that make it clear you are simply using rhetoric to retort against ideas you find personally disagreeable.
Again, soulsinging has not provided one factual counterclaim to disprove the connections i have previously hinted at. Instead he relies on a logical fallacy to imply that just because what i claim is so extraordinary that it therefore can not exist.
I do not and will never disapprove of honest debate.
I ABHOR obfuscation.
I am not a child.
I don't need or desire to be treated like my quest for truth is little more than an infantile delusion.
I NEVER (and WILL NEVER) claim to have all (or even a large fraction of) the answers.
But i certainly don't think i'm barking up a completely errant tree in my search.
A CHALLENGE: I would challenge Soulsinging to provide me with a valid alternative working thesis for what he believes these symbols to represent, and why they are found dating back hundreds of years in to Freemasonic history, and are currently manifest around the world in the institutions of government and business.
"Graphic designers are inherently lazy" does not get you off the hook to explain such widespread symbolic phenomenon observable at the highest levels of government and commerce, i'm afraid.
If that is the best you've got, then it may be time to reconsider your OWN "beliefs", not simply to continually challenge mine on the grounds that what i imply is merely too absurd to be true.
PS -- To Weenie, and regarding "the bible", et al.
I certainly think that is possible (even "logically" probable, though i always stress the trappings of remaining confined by the realms of "logic", as not everything in the world operates on that basis!) that the world of religion falls to descriptive mechanisms of the likes of a Joseph Campbell.
That is to say, it is most clearly possible that all religion stems from a common archetypal phenomenon of human consciousness. that the bible expresses what was previously expressed in part and in some form by the Sumerians, the Indians, and other cultures is in fact undeniable.
However i would caution that to ONLY accept "the Joseph Campbell mechanism" for explaining this is to disregard -- without proof or any real reason, except maybe to satisfy the all esteemable "logic"(a derivative of the ego, to be sure) -- the POSSIBILITY that there is, maybe even only in part, a real FACTUAL relationship between such "religions".
And to be clear, i AM talking about FACT. This is not like the scene from Indiana Jones & The Last Crusade (GREAT movies them all, and ON POINT to this discussion entirely, if you go watch them) where Dr. Jones says, "Archaeology is the search for fact... not truth. If it's truth you're looking for, Dr. Tyree's philosophy class is right down the hall".
No, i mean FACT, as in, it is POSSIBLE that all the great religions were, in FACT, attempting to DISSEMINATE and PASS DOWN historical facts to following generations of man.
It is also POSSIBLE that due to confusions stemming from language barriers, lack of contextual and cultural reference points, generally from the obscurity of pre-history and our lack of ability to obtain direct empirical observations of these cultures, that we have RADICALLY (a great word whose root itself means ROOT, fyi) MISINTERPRETED THESE "RELIGIONS".
Case in point: The Bible.
Starting somewhere in the 18th Century the authenticity of the Bible as a HISTORICAL document was increasingly called in to question ... down to the point (today) that many ONLY accept the Bible as a MYTHOLOGICAL book -- and a fallacious and dubious mythology at that.
However, MODERN ARCHEOLOGY HAS VINDICATED THE BIBLE IN SPADES AS A HISTORICAL REFERENCE WORK.
Are some of the FACTS in the Bible wrong? Most certainly. ANY author will skew certain things to his or her benefit (myself and the bible both being no exceptions). But the FACT remains that dozens and dozens of references in the bible to places, people, and things that "logical" men in the "modern era" have derided as myth or fancy HAVE NOW BEEN PROVEN THROUGH ARCHEOLOGY TO BE FACTUAL.
If you want a concrete example of something like this go read up about Gilgamesh.
Who was Gilgamesh? Well modern "logic" tells us that it is, of course, a MYTH.
But modern archeology has now MOVED MUCH CLOSER TO ACCEPTANCE OF THE FACT THAT, while SOME of the "facts" may be mistranslated or flat out wrong, that HE WAS PROBABLY A REAL PERSON.
HERE IS A BIBLICAL EXAMPLE:
The City of Erech.
Erech was the second city built by Nimrod in the bible.
Who was nimrod? Of COURSE logic has written him off as a myth. Him along with his cities.
But check in to modern archeology, and you will find (your school books probably won't tell you, but you WILL find) that Erech in all probability stems from a hebrew translation of the Akkadian transliteration of the Sumerian (and later, Babylonian) City of URUK.
AND WHAT IS URUK?
In all probability it is the literary root (as well as the geographic counterpart) of the modern IRAQ,
and Iraq most certainly is NOT a MYTH.
So here we have concrete examples of Mr. Rational Logic Man being COMPLETELY and utterly inept at translating records that were in all likelihood largely HISTORICAL documents tinged with either hints of myth\fancy or POSSIBLY of MORE MISTRANSLATED or MISUNDERSTOOD FACT.
And THAT is the truth that i continue to struggle to uncover,
and of which i am asking readers of this board to at least open their mind to the possibility of!
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Deliberately self-maintained ignorance and denial is NOT "independent thought".
It is actually a form of neurosis which is probably best associated with a psychological phenomenon called "cognitive dissonance".
Essentially this means that when one is confronted with evidence, an idea, or information that directly contradicts previously and deeply held notions (like beliefs about the fundamental nature of your world or your country, or yourSELF), that such an idea\evidence\or information is likely to produce dissonance.
The Cognitive Dissonance Theory holds that when one is confronted with such a conflicting idea that said person is likely to either DENY, JUSTIFY, RATIONALIZE, or employ other EGO DEFENSE mechanisms as a method to block the intruding and conflicting viewpoint from causing mental anguish to the subject.
In other words, Soulsinging has a long and previously held world view which does not support the model which this symbolism evidence supports, and therefore, via the mechanism of Cognitive Dissonance is attempting to alternately either rationalize to oblivion, flat out deny or justify through irrationality any of the conflicting information that i am putting forward because it is causing him severe mental anguish to contemplate the possibility that his previous world view and self concept (his view of himself and his position in his world) are based on a incomplete and possibly flawed model of the worlds operation.
Wrong, what I have is a brain that runs on logic. And you haven't provided one SHRED of evidence. You have a mountain of coincidence, conjecture, and theories. But no evidence. It's all circumstantial.
I'll give you a scenario:
Guy gets arrested for murder. The prosecutor's evidence is:
He has a picture of a pyramid in his pocket. The pyramid is an ancient Egyptian symbol for bad, murdering motherfuckers. In addition, the suspect went to grade school 20 years ago with another guy who was convicted of murdering a homeless guy for his shoes. This guy committed his murder during the day under the sun. The sun is another symbol used by other bad murdering motherfuckers. Thus, our current suspect is guilty.
Would you buy that? Of course you wouldn't. You'd get laughed out of court, out of a lab, out of a university, or any other institution based on evidence and fact. Yet we are all in "denial" because we don't go running into the streets with "THE END IS NEAR" sandwich boards with pictures of the shell logo and Isis on them because of your posts.
I don't close my mind to the possibility of conspiracy. But I maintain skepticism and in all the time you've spent on here writing hundreds of multipage masturbatory diatribes cribbed from the Da Vinci Code, you've never once given evidence. You've given a bunch of interesting coincidences that are fun to play with but are in no way proof of any of the claims you use them to support. There is no factual counterclaim on my part because you have given no facts to link these things other than coincidence. Just as you can't disprove God any easier than you can prove him, I can't really disprove something that was never proved to begin with. I'm sure if I have hours to spend scouring every wingnut internet source you read, I could grab a bunch of links and quotes and pictures that are NOT the same, but you'd say that's not enough, which is ironic because it's what you keep insisting should be enough for US to accept YOU. Lucky for us all, I don't have the time or inclination. But dunk already did a decent job of showing plenty of logos that don't fit your conspiracy mold, as well as providing much stronger evidence to explain your coincidences than the crap you've given.
Deliberately self-maintained ignorance and denial is NOT "independent thought".
It is actually a form of neurosis which is probably best associated with a psychological phenomenon called "cognitive dissonance".
Essentially this means that when one is confronted with evidence, an idea, or information that directly contradicts previously and deeply held notions (like beliefs about the fundamental nature of your world or your country, or yourSELF), that such an idea\evidence\or information is likely to produce dissonance.
The Cognitive Dissonance Theory holds that when one is confronted with such a conflicting idea that said person is likely to either DENY, JUSTIFY, RATIONALIZE, or employ other EGO DEFENSE mechanisms as a method to block the intruding and conflicting viewpoint from causing mental anguish to the subject.
In other words, Soulsinging has a long and previously held world view which does not support the model which this symbolism evidence supports, and therefore, via the mechanism of Cognitive Dissonance is attempting to alternately either rationalize to oblivion, flat out deny or justify through irrationality any of the conflicting information that i am putting forward because it is causing him severe mental anguish to contemplate the possibility that his previous world view and self concept (his view of himself and his position in his world) are based on a incomplete and possibly flawed model of the worlds operation.
Wrong, what I have is a brain that runs on logic. And you haven't provided one SHRED of evidence. You have a mountain of coincidence, conjecture, and theories. But no evidence. It's all circumstantial.
I'll give you a scenario:
Guy gets arrested for murder. The prosecutor's evidence is:
He has a picture of a pyramid in his pocket. The pyramid is an ancient Egyptian symbol for bad, murdering motherfuckers. In addition, the suspect went to grade school 20 years ago with another guy who was convicted of murdering a homeless guy for his shoes. This guy committed his murder during the day under the sun. The sun is another symbol used by other bad murdering motherfuckers. Thus, our current suspect is guilty.
Would you buy that? Of course you wouldn't. You'd get laughed out of court, out of a lab, out of a university, or any other institution based on evidence and fact. Yet we are all in "denial" because we don't go running into the streets with "THE END IS NEAR" sandwich boards with pictures of the shell logo and Isis on them because of your posts.
I don't close my mind to the possibility of conspiracy. But I maintain skepticism and in all the time you've spent on here writing hundreds of multipage masturbatory diatribes cribbed from the Da Vinci Code, you've never once given evidence. You've given a bunch of interesting coincidences that are fun to play with but are in no way proof of any of the claims you use them to support. There is no factual counterclaim on my part because you have given no facts to link these things other than coincidence. Just as you can't disprove God any easier than you can prove him, I can't really disprove something that was never proved to begin with. I'm sure if I have hours to spend scouring every wingnut internet source you read, I could grab a bunch of links and quotes and pictures that are NOT the same, but you'd say that's not enough, which is ironic because it's what you keep insisting should be enough for US to accept YOU. Lucky for us all, I don't have the time or inclination. But dunk already did a decent job of showing plenty of logos that don't fit your conspiracy mold, as well as providing much stronger evidence to explain your coincidences than the crap you've given.
Instead of further obfuscating (which this post, in fact, certainly is) answer one simple question:
Have i not PROVED, BEYOND DOUBT, THAT THE EYE AND PYRAMID IS A MASONIC SYMBOL?
Just answer the question, please.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
This is one great fucking thread.
Serious.
I wish I had people like you guys to talk to all the time. I'd be one happy camper. :geek:
~I want to realize brotherhood or identity not merely with the beings called human, but I want to realize identity with all life, even with such things as crawl upon earth.~
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
Albert Pike isn't exactly just "some mason" or "some dude".
He was the goddamn GRAND COMMANDER of the southern jurisdiction.
He is the INVENTOR OF THE 33rd DEGREE.
NOT just "SOME mason", for fucks sake.
You guys are great.
I'm not pretending like every sun symbol under the ... uh ... sun ... is part of a masonic conspiracy.
What i AM trying to do is wake people up to the fact that there IS the POSSIBILITY that some of this IS in fact connected.
As far as I have understood, if masons like something, it is to construct degrees. He was a high-ranking mason, granted. That doesnt lend much weight to your argument here though. But you seem to have mellowed to that some symbols of some companies share traits that may, if you look at it in the right light, look as something interesting going on. (looks to me you could have saved a couple of the exclamation marks used earlier on then) Again, a belief in the conspiracy is a prerequisite to see "the problem" at all. If the conspiracy seems unlikely from the outset (which is my firm belief in most of the incarnations that get thrown around this board), then the punch just disappears from the entire argument.
My problem with it is that loose random (yes, I call them that, no matter how hoity toity these saying it were) quotes about symbology doesn't really tell us anything, other than that masons like to use symbols. A trait they share with pretty much all of humanity. You trace sun symbology back thousands of years. Instead of thinking that means someone has controlled us for 2000 years, I find it immensely more probable that the inspiration is the same, and that certain archetypical beliefs and symbols we have dragged along with us from the start. Just as all newer religions stole alot of mythology and symbology from their predecessors, so do we loot old symbols. The sun is a no-brainer as a powerful symbol since everyone can see it in the sky, and can recognize it's importance for our survival. It can also be represented with one of the most fundamental shapes found in nature: a circle. It being so fundamental a shape, I have a hard time interpreting history from the notion that circles means the same bastards have had control all the time since it's "their mark".
As for the eye in the pyramid symbol, as far as I have understood, it's a symbol meaning more or less "enlightenment", and perhaps partiucularly in the sense of the enlightenment that did away with the old feudal hierarchies, and laid the groundwork for the rational, scientific society of today. (At any rate far more rational and more scientific than the predecessor) It's appearance in US government seals and so on may be because, many of your founding fathers were masons of the enlightenment persuasion. Masons deciding to use masonic imagery in their new enlightened state with no royal head. The American revolution holds a great debt to the enlightenment to happen at all. States like to use old symbolic relics from the past, since it makes them look more eternal and important. Norways shield is still a lion with an axe, god knows why, except that it's traditional. America got started in the enlightenment age, and carries enlightenment symbolics with it.
I am not blinded sheep that dont "see", I believe fully in limited conspiracies, corruption, good old boy networks, black ops and so forth. I just dont buy the package you offer, since it seems to require several unrealistic premises and a rather selective reading of history.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Albert Pike isn't exactly just "some mason" or "some dude".
He was the goddamn GRAND COMMANDER of the southern jurisdiction.
He is the INVENTOR OF THE 33rd DEGREE.
NOT just "SOME mason", for fucks sake.
You guys are great.
I'm not pretending like every sun symbol under the ... uh ... sun ... is part of a masonic conspiracy.
What i AM trying to do is wake people up to the fact that there IS the POSSIBILITY that some of this IS in fact connected.
As far as I have understood, if masons like something, it is to construct degrees. He was a high-ranking mason, granted. That doesnt lend much weight to your argument here though. But you seem to have mellowed to that some symbols of some companies share traits that may, if you look at it in the right light, look as something interesting going on. (looks to me you could have saved a couple of the exclamation marks used earlier on then) Again, a belief in the conspiracy is a prerequisite to see "the problem" at all. If the conspiracy seems unlikely from the outset (which is my firm belief in most of the incarnations that get thrown around this board), then the punch just disappears from the entire argument.
My problem with it is that loose random (yes, I call them that, no matter how hoity toity these saying it were) quotes about symbology doesn't really tell us anything, other than that masons like to use symbols. A trait they share with pretty much all of humanity. You trace sun symbology back thousands of years. Instead of thinking that means someone has controlled us for 2000 years, I find it immensely more probable that the inspiration is the same, and that certain archetypical beliefs and symbols we have dragged along with us from the start. Just as all newer religions stole alot of mythology and symbology from their predecessors, so do we loot old symbols. The sun is a no-brainer as a powerful symbol since everyone can see it in the sky, and can recognize it's importance for our survival. It can also be represented with one of the most fundamental shapes found in nature: a circle. It being so fundamental a shape, I have a hard time interpreting history from the notion that circles means the same bastards have had control all the time since it's "their mark".
As for the eye in the pyramid symbol, as far as I have understood, it's a symbol meaning more or less "enlightenment", and perhaps partiucularly in the sense of the enlightenment that did away with the old feudal hierarchies, and laid the groundwork for the rational, scientific society of today. (At any rate far more rational and more scientific than the predecessor) It's appearance in US government seals and so on may be because, many of your founding fathers were masons of the enlightenment persuasion. Masons deciding to use masonic imagery in their new enlightened state with no royal head. The American revolution holds a great debt to the enlightenment to happen at all. States like to use old symbolic relics from the past, since it makes them look more eternal and important. Norways shield is still a lion with an axe, god knows why, except that it's traditional. America got started in the enlightenment age, and carries enlightenment symbolics with it.
I am not blinded sheep that dont "see", I believe fully in limited conspiracies, corruption, good old boy networks, black ops and so forth. I just dont buy the package you offer, since it seems to require several unrealistic premises and a rather selective reading of history.
Peace
Dan
Hey Dan,
i don't have time right now either to read this whole post, or to respond in proper,
as i have to take a shower, get some grub, and then get on the road to Charlotte, asap, for a Lemonheads show.
However, i skimmed your response, and have to say, i respect your position -- surely it is the "logical" one -- but disagree in full.
When i get a chance, i will post up some very relevant and (i feel) enlightening quotes about all of this from a one Mr. Manly P. Hall.
From his quotes, it becomes evident what is in play here,
and it IS just as you argue against, a multi-thousand year old "conspiracy" of "enlightened" men to establish a global or world democratic government.
My problem is not with the ideal, it is with the implementation.
These guys are all fuck-ups and assholes, as far as i can see.
At least, the ones implementing these policies are.
I don't know who the ones behind the scenes making things happen are,
but one could hardly look at the mess surrounding the world at present,
or at events like the "global financial crisis" and call these things the work of "enlightened" men.
I just think they have their heads in their ass, to be honest.
If you want a world global democracy, then say so.
Literally, get your fucking asses on television, where all the doofus masses will see you, and proclaim your oh-so noble intentions. Do that and skip all the deceit, lies, and manipulation by oblique propaganda.
If it is such a noble pursuit, let it be judged by the light of day.
Otherwise, a "logical" person is forced to conclude as to your intentions by way of your actions -- judge a tree by its fruit, if you will -- and we know that it is not the work of light that is done by night.
Ah fuck it, i have five minutes.
Here are your quotes.
The following are from the book The Secret Destiny of America, 1944, by Manly P. Hall
if you wan't to call his writings just the work of "some random guy" you may do so (just as you have done with Albert Pikes) but it is clear that someone is taking his words seriously.
Here we go,
starting out with the FIRST words in the book. Literally, this is from the caption under the picture at the very beginning of the first chapter:
"By preserved symbols we can know that it is from the remote past, from the deep shadows of the medieval world, as well as from the early struggles of more modern times, that the power of American democracy has come."
Well if that has you piqued, and maybe also rolling your eyes, perhaps you would like to check out the first paragraph of the book proper:
"AMERICA can not refuse the challenge of leadership in the postwar world. Mere physical reconstruction of ravaged countries and the reorganization of political, economic, and social systems is the lesser task we will face. The larger problem and the great challenge is in how to set up a new order of world ethics [does that language sound familiar? a new order of the world?] established on a foundation of democratic idealism.
Experts in various fields have already submitted programs designed to meet the needs of those nations whose way of life has been disrupted by war. But with the failing common to specially trained minds, these planners incline to think mostly in the terms of their own particular interests. [well he sure as hell got THAT part right!] As yet, no one has touched the fundamentals of international ethics. No one has advanced a working plan securely based upon a broad, deep, and sympathetic understanding of the human being and his problems. The thinking has been in the dual fields of power politics and material economics, with remedies expressed in terms of charts, blueprints, patterns, and industrial programs."
Well, thats all noble and good and sounds fine, but what is he really getting at?
Here you go, my socialist friend:
"It is not an easy task to unite the efforts of the human race toward the accomplishment of any common
good. Mankind in the majority is selfish, provincial in attitude, and concerned primarily with personal success and acquiring creature comforts. It will not be possible to build an enduring peace until the average man has been convinced that personal selfishness is detrimental to personal happiness and personal success. It must be shown that self-seeking has gone out of fashion, and that the world is moving on to a larger conception of living."
Right there, you have to stop and just WONDER, is THAT what this is all about?
is THIS what we are living through? Is THIS the nature and reason behind the global economic collapse?
Are we being mentally prepared for something beyond the current "selfish, provincial" attitude. Are we being "convinced that personal selfishness is detrimental to personal happiness and personal success"?
I dunno, but check this out.
If you're still not impressed, it gets much better:
"Believing this to be so [that man is an idealist, and that America must be made aware of her destiny], I dedicate this book to the proposition that American Democracy is part of a Universal Plan [Universal Plan? Hmm... what is he on about?].
Our world is ruled by inflexible laws which control not only the motions of the heavenly bodies, but the consequences of human conduct. These Universal motions, interpreted politically, are impelling human society out of a state of autocracy and tyranny to democracy and freedom. This motion is inevitable, for the growth of humans is a gradual development of mind over matter, and the"
Yep yep. We're getting somewhere.
But WHAT, EXACTLY does he mean to imply?
Lets lay it on the table, flat:
"Years of research among the records of olden peoples available in libraries, museums, and shrines of ancient cultures, has convinced me that there exists in the world today, and has existed for thousands of years, a body of enlightened humans united in what might be termed, an Order of the Quest. It is composed of those whose intellectual and spiritual perceptions have revealed to them that civilization has a Secret Destiny--secret, I say, because this high purpose is not realized by the many; the great masses of peoples still live along without any knowledge whatsoever that they are part of a Universal Motion in time and space.
Pythagoras, Plato, Aristotle, Buddha, Jesus and Mohammed are among the greatest names recorded in history; but it is not customary to regard the men who bore these names as statesmen or sociologists. They are thought of as philosophers, sages, seers, and mystics, whose doctrines have no application to the political needs of an industrial civilization. Yet it is men like Plato and Buddha who still exercise the most powerful force in mortal affairs toward the perpetuation and preservation of a civilized state among all nations.
All of the great leaders of ancient times realized and taught that the establishment of a state of permanent peace among the nations depended upon the release of human ideals, but through properly trained and disciplined minds capable of interpreting these ideals in terms of the common good.
World democracy was the secret dream of the great classical philosophers. Toward the accomplishment of this greatest of all human ends they outlined programs of education, religion, and social conduct directed to the ultimate achievement of a practical and universal brotherhood. And in order to accomplish their purposes more effectively, these ancient scholars bound themselves with certain mystic ties into a broad confraternity. In Egypt, Greece, India, and China, the State Mysteries came into existence. Orders of initiated priestphilosophers were formed as a sovereign body to instruct, advise, and direct the rulers of the States.
Thousands of years ago, in Egypt, these mystical orders were aware of the existence of the western hemisphere and the great continent which we call America. The bold resolution was made that this western continent should become the site of the philosophic empire. Just when this was done it is impossible now to say, but certainly the decision was reached prior to the time of Plato, for a thinly veiled statement of this resolution is the substance of his treatise on the Atlantic Islands.
One of the most ancient of man's constructive ideals is the dream of a universal democracy and a cooperation of all nations in a commonwealth of States. The mechanism for the accomplishment of this ideal was set in motion in the ancient temples of Greece, Egypt, and India. So brilliant was the plan and so well was it administrated that it has survived to our time, and it will continue to function until the great work is accomplished."
WOW!
If you made it through all that,
you CERTAINLY have something to WRAP YOUR HEAD AROUND.
NOW,
you can obviously sit back (just like i imagine Soulsinging to be doing right now) and declare to yourself, "What a load of crap. Who is this fucking windbag, Manly P Hall? Who gives a shit what this dumb fuck has to say." ...
but i would caution you that to dismiss the words he wrote is in all probability (best i can tell) to dismiss the truth.
Post edited by DriftingByTheStorm on
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I have no problems of reading the man's opinions and so forth. His heart is in the right place it seems. I read it as a desperate hope for the possibility of a better tomorrow and a progressive view of history straight after the devastation of world war 2. Most of what you quoted are mere political wishful thinking, the only "but" part being when he starts to draw in "the rulers" almost in passing.
But... this doesnt prove or indicate anything other than that the author himself believes this to be so. And belief is pretty cheap. A quick internet search will find fervent believers in the strangest things, and boy, can they write books. I myself grew up with, but eventually out of von Daniken books for instance. In hindsight I realize how little substance he had to a lot of the things he wrote. I am now a lot more sceptic and wary to "alternative" theories (alternative does not mean it's a better one in itself), but I still get fascinated by them. In recent years the authors and believers in themselves fascinate me, but that's for another time.
Point is, the guys you quote say something meaningful, given the premise and context of the conspiracy being true. This only becomes interesting if you have already accepted the premise of the truth of the conspiracy. The long paragraphs you quoted me here, makes me merely shrug and think that is one man's opinion. That several people entertain similarly misleading ideas, doesnt make them true, it only signifies that an idea swirls around. That the man believes in the "just rulers of the world" or something doesnt mean they are real.
I sympathize somewhat with the sentiment. It would be great if the world really was controlled by a group of (evil, whatever) men. That would mean that we only had to recognize that, and force them to stop and the world would be peachy. However, I have no belief whatsoever in this being the case. Reality is alot more vague, messy and essentially meaningless than these theories will have you believe. Everything does not have a meaning in itself, but we can construct it, and we frequently do. That's how our minds work. Big happenings need big people, big influences carrying out their will. Big things must mean something. This is a human instinct that underlies a lot of what you post about. In olden days, such things were attributed to God's wrath, while today shadow government of the world is a more likely culprit (I have a book with jewish tales from Prague, and the matteroffactly retelling of a plague in the city that were halted only when the adultering couple owned up and took their punishment). Stuff like this is what I think about when reading fanciful tales with a lot of transparent agendas heaped on top to satisfy certain groups' prejudices. They go both left and right politically. (and some theories manage both, astonishingly)
You should read the novel "Foucault's pendulum" by Umberto Eco. A lot of the fave conspiracy hang-ons is utilized in the book in an entertaining manner. I just finished reading it myself. About a bunch of men publishing conspiracy books, but wanting to make the mother of all conspiracy tales themselves, and they get caught up in it by hitting onto something...
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
well that's the funniest thing i've read in quite a while....brilliant!!
+1
~I want to realize brotherhood or identity not merely with the beings called human, but I want to realize identity with all life, even with such things as crawl upon earth.~
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
I think they pretty much nailed it too... Except, I believe all of the groups in question there (Reptilians excluded, ha ha) are powerful enough to have some major impact on the events of the world, but more often than not, things don't go as planned. I think they just like to sit back and watch the fireworks, safe from the comfort of their estates.
When you get right down to it, I don't think there's anything wrong with gathering together the brightest minds to "attack a problem". Whether their intent is altruistic or not is where the rubber meets the road though because they tend to represent some interest or the other - including their own. Many of the brightest minds DO think they have the right to control - whether it's the world or just the way one other person thinks. Because, afterall, they are "THE brightest and THE best". I've had the unfortunate experience of having to work for some of them....
Then again, some of the dullest minds think they have the right to control too. Just look at George W. Bush. But that is a whole OTHER story.......
Eric Hoffer said you should NEVER be a "true believer". I happen to think he was right.
~I want to realize brotherhood or identity not merely with the beings called human, but I want to realize identity with all life, even with such things as crawl upon earth.~
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
looks like this asshole is involved in the government cover up as well...maybe Alex Jones is the man behind the mask. It's very disturbing because I've never seen this hand sign be used for anything...ANYTHING
looks like this asshole is involved in the government cover up as well...maybe Alex Jones is the man behind the mask. It's very disturbing because I've never seen this hand sign be used for anything...ANYTHING
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
sure.
what exactly is it that you want me to comment on?
i'm not sure i see the intention behind the article.
half of what is in there is just a discussion about series dates and other such miscellany.
The top half of the article is a VERY CURSORY discussion about the "origins" of the Great Seal of the United States. All though, in my humble opinion, the article utterly fails to even get passed the most basic explanation of where the seal actually came from.
If you really want to see a well put together research piece on the dollar, the seal, the masonic influence over the whole affair, i suggest you check out Eye of the Phoenix which is the 3rd part of what the creators hope will be a 8 or 9 part documentary, that started with parts 1 and 2 of Secret Mysteries of America's Beginning: The New Atlantis, and Riddles In Stone: Secret Architecture of Washington, DC, respectively.
Again, i would comment further, but given that not much was really said in the article, i don't know what i am actually responding to. Certainly nothing was debunked, as like i say, nothing was really said.
To illustrate, you can do a simple google search "masonic eye" and come up with countless images of aprons, temples, and whatnot that have the All Seeing Eye on them, clearly masonic in affiliation, and clearly predating the founding of the United States.
FDR certainly was a mason, and it certainly had a LOT to do with why he picked it for the Fed Reserve notes. Again, go watch Eye of the Phoenix. This is discussed in detail in that documentary, along with lots of information on who people like FDR were connected to, and how they came to the opinions they did on the subject.
There is also a fair amount of discussion there about the founders and the seal, although ALL of that is based more in "legend" than in fact at this point. The truth is, no one really seems to know who came up with the idea of putting a masonic eye on the seal or why. Though we have historical documents to prove that Benjamin Franklin was the Grand Master of the Philadelphia Grand Lodge, essentially meaning he was the head mason in all of america at the time. Jefferson was an illuminist supporter at the very least. Again, we have the record written in his own pen to prove it (the original is housed in his own university, UVa). He thought Wishaupt was a brilliant and well meaning man, and that those original "conspiracy theorists", Barruel and Robinson (direct to pdf) both by name, were little more than ill informed fearmongers -- a sentiment that seems to still ring true today amongst "enlightened" folks like Soulsinging and JLew et. al.
Anyhow.
Let me know what you really want to hear me say, and i'll try to get at it.
Glad this thread ain't dead yet.
It's probably more important that many here would wish it to be.
And that ain't tootin my own horn, thats just the troof o de matta.
Ps.
Sun symbolism can be found on the very first american coin: Franklin's Fugio
and the: 1787 "Excelsior" coins which came in at least 2 different image sets. One a bird with a sun. One a mountain with a sun rising over it.
And there is yet another early american coin, which i have forgotten the name of (my gf has a picture of it in her coin book, i can have her look it up) which is listed as the first US gold coin in her book, and it indeed has an image of the Eye and Pyramid on it.
But again, all the POST dates the MASONIC usage of the All Seeing Eye image.
But whatever.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
sure.
what exactly is it that you want me to comment on?
i'm not sure i see the intention behind the article.
half of what is in there is just a discussion about series dates and other such miscellany.
The top half of the article is a VERY CURSORY discussion about the "origins" of the Great Seal of the United States. All though, in my humble opinion, the article utterly fails to even get passed the most basic explanation of where the seal actually came from.
If you really want to see a well put together research piece on the dollar, the seal, the masonic influence over the whole affair, i suggest you check out Eye of the Phoenix which is the 3rd part of what the creators hope will be a 8 or 9 part documentary, that started with parts 1 and 2 of Secret Mysteries of America's Beginning: The New Atlantis, and Riddles In Stone: Secret Architecture of Washington, DC, respectively.
Again, i would comment further, but given that not much was really said in the article, i don't know what i am actually responding to. Certainly nothing was debunked, as like i say, nothing was really said.
To illustrate, you can do a simple google search "masonic eye" and come up with countless images of aprons, temples, and whatnot that have the All Seeing Eye on them, clearly masonic in affiliation, and clearly predating the founding of the United States.
FDR certainly was a mason, and it certainly had a LOT to do with why he picked it for the Fed Reserve notes. Again, go watch Eye of the Phoenix. This is discussed in detail in that documentary, along with lots of information on who people like FDR were connected to, and how they came to the opinions they did on the subject.
There is also a fair amount of discussion there about the founders and the seal, although ALL of that is based more in "legend" than in fact at this point. The truth is, no one really seems to know who came up with the idea of putting a masonic eye on the seal or why. Though we have historical documents to prove that Benjamin Franklin was the Grand Master of the Philadelphia Grand Lodge, essentially meaning he was the head mason in all of america at the time. Jefferson was an illuminist supporter at the very least. Again, we have the record written in his own pen to prove it (the original is housed in his own university, UVa). He thought Wishaupt was a brilliant and well meaning man, and that those original "conspiracy theorists", Barruel and Robinson (direct to pdf) both by name, were little more than ill informed fearmongers -- a sentiment that seems to still ring true today amongst "enlightened" folks like Soulsinging and JLew et. al.
Anyhow.
Let me know what you really want to hear me say, and i'll try to get at it.
Glad this thread ain't dead yet.
It's probably more important that many here would wish it to be.
And that ain't tootin my own horn, thats just the troof o de matta.
Ps.
Sun symbolism can be found on the very first american coin: Franklin's Fugio
and the: 1787 "Excelsior" coins which came in at least 2 different image sets. One a bird with a sun. One a mountain with a sun rising over it.
And there is yet another early american coin, which i have forgotten the name of (my gf has a picture of it in her coin book, i can have her look it up) which is listed as the first US gold coin in her book, and it indeed has an image of the Eye and Pyramid on it.
But again, all the POST dates the MASONIC usage of the All Seeing Eye image.
But whatever.
I guess you said more than enough of what I was looking for in this post. Thanks.
Comments
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
Am I the only one who thought of this thread after being taken aback the first time I turned a corner to find a massive display of winking Pepsi eyes? The new logo is just too blatant
“The Ancient Astronomers saw all the great Symbols of Masonry in the Stars. Sirius still glitters in our Lodges as the Blazing Star , (l’Etoile Flamboyante). The Sun is still symbolized by the point within a Circle; and, with the Moon and Mercury or, Anubis, in the three Great Lights of the Lodge. Not only to these, but to the figures and numbers exhibited by the Stars, were ascribed peculiar and divine powers."
Albert Pike, Sovereign Grand Commander of Scottish Rite Freemasonry Southern Jurisdiction, from his Masonic textbook, Morals and Dogma, on the lessons of “The Knight of the Brazen Serpent”( 25th degree) p.486-7
Logo for the largest bank in the world:
(sometimes, when Asia is depressed, it is the 2nd largest)
I guess now we don't even have to question the "possible" links between Sirius Radio and Freemasonry?
I like Freeman. He's weird. But he cracks me up sometimes. And on point more than he is off.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Dude, just because some mason talks about sun symbology in the form of circles, doesn't mean that all circles thus are expressions of masonry. Circle is a pretty basic shape that can represent alot of things, including the sun. It can also represent the sun without it being anything fishy masonic about it.
There are millions of random quotes from masons, or mason-associated people (which really broadens the field as to the number of people who can be used to this purpose) that can be taken out of context and applied to anything today. Kinda like you can always find a bible-quote to support just about any standpoint. That some mason at some point talked about sun symbology in the shape of circles, doesnt mean that you today can just look after sun-logos, and then presto, you have the entire conspiracy unfolded, or that there is something fishy about circles in logos.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Exactly.
Hooray for independent thought. :geek:
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
Albert Pike isn't exactly just "some mason" or "some dude".
He was the goddamn GRAND COMMANDER of the southern jurisdiction.
He is the INVENTOR OF THE 33rd DEGREE.
NOT just "SOME mason", for fucks sake.
You guys are great.
I'm not pretending like every sun symbol under the ... uh ... sun ... is part of a masonic conspiracy.
What i AM trying to do is wake people up to the fact that there IS the POSSIBILITY that some of this IS in fact connected.
Hey, Soulsing,
wasn't it YOU who was giving me endless shit about "ITS A SHELL" ?
While i still maintain that there is clear intent of double-imagery going on with Shell Gas...
... here it is for you, bub.
Your direct connection.
The great goddess of the masons, of many great religions in fact (not that i consider Masonry to be either great, or a religion, but) ... is Isis.
Isis goes as Aphrodite, or Venus, or, apparently in America as ... COLUMBIA. (she goes as many different names across the ages, including the names, Ishtar, Inanna and Ashtaroth)
[there is even a Shriners (who are part of the Masonic brotherhood, to be clear) Female African American Auxiliary organization called The Daughters of ISIS ... HMM...]
Yes, "Columbia", as in DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, as in The Capitol of our Country founded in LARGE part by FREEMASONS ...
HERE IT IS, SOULSINGING. PAY ATTENTION:
Second Century BC Greek Sculpture of Aphrodite
which INCLUDES ONE OF HER SYMBOLS ON HER FLANK (another being the OWL, like on the dollar bill, or surrounding the White House, oh no!):
OMFG!
oh no!
Danger Will Robinson
Danger!
Undeniable links to occult symbology abound!
But your point is taken.
EVERYTHING can't be part of a conspiracy,
right?
You guys and your denial though.
Its pretty funny.
You can't admit ANYthing.
Once again,
WHAT, pray tell, do you THINK this symbolism is representing?
and from WHENCE do you think it is derived?
[say "the dollar bill" or "the great seal" and you will be in danger of winning the ignorant and obtuse man of the year award. How many images of masonic pyramid and eyes that CLEARLY PREDATE THE US GREAT SEAL do i have to show you ?]
You think DARPA just like pyramids and eyes?
Same as the freemasons?
Very old masonic seal with Eye in Pyramid at the top
Really?
Truly?
Really trully?
Seriously?
Come on now.
I may be running the hunt overboard,
but you guys are in flat out DENIAL!
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Deliberately self-maintained ignorance and denial is NOT "independent thought".
It is actually a form of neurosis which is probably best associated with a psychological phenomenon called "cognitive dissonance".
Essentially this means that when one is confronted with evidence, an idea, or information that directly contradicts previously and deeply held notions (like beliefs about the fundamental nature of your world or your country, or yourSELF), that such an idea\evidence\or information is likely to produce dissonance.
The Cognitive Dissonance Theory holds that when one is confronted with such a conflicting idea that said person is likely to either DENY, JUSTIFY, RATIONALIZE, or employ other EGO DEFENSE mechanisms as a method to block the intruding and conflicting viewpoint from causing mental anguish to the subject.
In other words, Soulsinging has a long and previously held world view which does not support the model which this symbolism evidence supports, and therefore, via the mechanism of Cognitive Dissonance is attempting to alternately either rationalize to oblivion, flat out deny or justify through irrationality any of the conflicting information that i am putting forward because it is causing him severe mental anguish to contemplate the possibility that his previous world view and self concept (his view of himself and his position in his world) are based on a incomplete and possibly flawed model of the worlds operation.
But i would NOT call it "independent thought".
Healthy skepticism is a valuable trait.
Wanton denial of what is clearly not just random happenstance is just a stupid ego defense mechanism.
The only person that would (or should) be proud would be Dr. Freud,
because this is a classic representative example of a great psychological concept.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
The more i read and listen to Freeman, the less crazy i think him.
Stil not sure about all this Fish People stuff, though.
lol.
ps - i think Freeman IS wrong about one thing. Christopher Columbus (best i can make out) was probably a PORTUGUESE JEW, working as an agent for the British crown (Portugal still maintaining the oldest written alliance with Britain), and NOT a Greek. This would even better explain his "Kabalistic Cypher" used as his signature. Jews being deeply entwined with Kabalism. Actually if you look in to it, his cypher is, in deed, the strongest clue to his possible Portuguese Jewish heritage. (don't forget that Kabalism, Templars, and Masons are also all entwined to some degree)
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Everything is subject to interpretation - it's all theoretical, with the exception of scientific and mathmatical data, and even some of it is theoretical isn't it?
When you ask people to believe, you ask them to close off their ability to impartially see, hear and internalize. In other words, I'm a student of Eric Hoffer's philosophy. And I totally agree with you, Soulsinging has his own set of comfortable beliefs that preclude him from considering the possibilities of what you have presented. But there really isn't a right or wrong, fact or fiction, just emotion backing up different sets of beliefs/theories.
Please continue to post and start all your interesting and informational threads man. I ALWAYS look to see what you've got going on under A Moving Train. But don't let people upset you if they don't buy in. You're a brilliant guy with interesting perspectives. Not everyone is that gifted.
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
I agree with most all of what you have written here.
Except (primarily) for one thing.
i am not asking ANYone to "BELIEVE".
I am asking them to stop ignorantly denying based on the gestalt of their own preconceived mental constructs.
In other words, you don't have to agree with me at ALL.
But your arguments should be more consistent and poignant than simply stating some truism like "quotes can be taken out of context" or what have you.
Such statements simply prove to me that the reader has failed to do even the most basic INQUIRY of their own in to the subject matter. And that gets us back to what i AM asking of those that read here. PLEASE MAKE YOUR OWN UNBIASED INQUIRIES in to the nature of your world.
Do not simply go on the preconceptions of what we deem to be "modern science".
Science, "modern" in every era (meaning science 2000 years ago was considered "modern" at the time), has always proved to fail miserably at addressing certain fundamental and underlying pieces of our reality.
To deny yourself the most essential act of personal inquiry on the basis of following scientific, "rational", or "skeptical" dogma is to deny yourself the possibility of coming to a greater and fuller awareness of your own universe, and ultimately of our own self.
So i'm not asking anyone to blindly agree with or "believe" me or what i present here.
However, when after pages of factual historical documentation of certain undeniable claims -- like the FACT that the Eye in the Pyramid is a hundreds of years old symbol with direct ties to Freemasonry -- i still get people outright denying ANY possibility of there being a connection between agencies\institutions\corporations that use this or similar symbols i just have to SHAKE MY HEAD.
Its not that i am personally upset that you do not BELIEVE me.
It is that i am upset, from the standpoint of a compassionate and truth-seeking human being, that my fellow man can not, will not, and seems not to care to validate or invalidate for him\herself the information i have presented.
EVERY SINGLE ONE of Soulsinging's DENIALS has stemmed NOT from any factual couterclaim to my presentation, but directly from RHETORIC.
I'm not trying to play a "he said, she said" game.
I'm asking people to consider for themselves, with an OPEN MIND, the information presented.
But please don't belittle me by returning the favor (my time here) with empty words that make it clear you are simply using rhetoric to retort against ideas you find personally disagreeable.
Again, soulsinging has not provided one factual counterclaim to disprove the connections i have previously hinted at. Instead he relies on a logical fallacy to imply that just because what i claim is so extraordinary that it therefore can not exist.
I do not and will never disapprove of honest debate.
I ABHOR obfuscation.
I am not a child.
I don't need or desire to be treated like my quest for truth is little more than an infantile delusion.
I NEVER (and WILL NEVER) claim to have all (or even a large fraction of) the answers.
But i certainly don't think i'm barking up a completely errant tree in my search.
A CHALLENGE: I would challenge Soulsinging to provide me with a valid alternative working thesis for what he believes these symbols to represent, and why they are found dating back hundreds of years in to Freemasonic history, and are currently manifest around the world in the institutions of government and business.
"Graphic designers are inherently lazy" does not get you off the hook to explain such widespread symbolic phenomenon observable at the highest levels of government and commerce, i'm afraid.
If that is the best you've got, then it may be time to reconsider your OWN "beliefs", not simply to continually challenge mine on the grounds that what i imply is merely too absurd to be true.
PS -- To Weenie, and regarding "the bible", et al.
I certainly think that is possible (even "logically" probable, though i always stress the trappings of remaining confined by the realms of "logic", as not everything in the world operates on that basis!) that the world of religion falls to descriptive mechanisms of the likes of a Joseph Campbell.
That is to say, it is most clearly possible that all religion stems from a common archetypal phenomenon of human consciousness. that the bible expresses what was previously expressed in part and in some form by the Sumerians, the Indians, and other cultures is in fact undeniable.
However i would caution that to ONLY accept "the Joseph Campbell mechanism" for explaining this is to disregard -- without proof or any real reason, except maybe to satisfy the all esteemable "logic"(a derivative of the ego, to be sure) -- the POSSIBILITY that there is, maybe even only in part, a real FACTUAL relationship between such "religions".
And to be clear, i AM talking about FACT. This is not like the scene from Indiana Jones & The Last Crusade (GREAT movies them all, and ON POINT to this discussion entirely, if you go watch them) where Dr. Jones says, "Archaeology is the search for fact... not truth. If it's truth you're looking for, Dr. Tyree's philosophy class is right down the hall".
No, i mean FACT, as in, it is POSSIBLE that all the great religions were, in FACT, attempting to DISSEMINATE and PASS DOWN historical facts to following generations of man.
It is also POSSIBLE that due to confusions stemming from language barriers, lack of contextual and cultural reference points, generally from the obscurity of pre-history and our lack of ability to obtain direct empirical observations of these cultures, that we have RADICALLY (a great word whose root itself means ROOT, fyi) MISINTERPRETED THESE "RELIGIONS".
Case in point: The Bible.
Starting somewhere in the 18th Century the authenticity of the Bible as a HISTORICAL document was increasingly called in to question ... down to the point (today) that many ONLY accept the Bible as a MYTHOLOGICAL book -- and a fallacious and dubious mythology at that.
However, MODERN ARCHEOLOGY HAS VINDICATED THE BIBLE IN SPADES AS A HISTORICAL REFERENCE WORK.
Are some of the FACTS in the Bible wrong? Most certainly. ANY author will skew certain things to his or her benefit (myself and the bible both being no exceptions). But the FACT remains that dozens and dozens of references in the bible to places, people, and things that "logical" men in the "modern era" have derided as myth or fancy HAVE NOW BEEN PROVEN THROUGH ARCHEOLOGY TO BE FACTUAL.
If you want a concrete example of something like this go read up about Gilgamesh.
Who was Gilgamesh? Well modern "logic" tells us that it is, of course, a MYTH.
But modern archeology has now MOVED MUCH CLOSER TO ACCEPTANCE OF THE FACT THAT, while SOME of the "facts" may be mistranslated or flat out wrong, that HE WAS PROBABLY A REAL PERSON.
HERE IS A BIBLICAL EXAMPLE:
The City of Erech.
Erech was the second city built by Nimrod in the bible.
Who was nimrod? Of COURSE logic has written him off as a myth. Him along with his cities.
But check in to modern archeology, and you will find (your school books probably won't tell you, but you WILL find) that Erech in all probability stems from a hebrew translation of the Akkadian transliteration of the Sumerian (and later, Babylonian) City of URUK.
AND WHAT IS URUK?
In all probability it is the literary root (as well as the geographic counterpart) of the modern IRAQ,
and Iraq most certainly is NOT a MYTH.
So here we have concrete examples of Mr. Rational Logic Man being COMPLETELY and utterly inept at translating records that were in all likelihood largely HISTORICAL documents tinged with either hints of myth\fancy or POSSIBLY of MORE MISTRANSLATED or MISUNDERSTOOD FACT.
And THAT is the truth that i continue to struggle to uncover,
and of which i am asking readers of this board to at least open their mind to the possibility of!
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Wrong, what I have is a brain that runs on logic. And you haven't provided one SHRED of evidence. You have a mountain of coincidence, conjecture, and theories. But no evidence. It's all circumstantial.
I'll give you a scenario:
Guy gets arrested for murder. The prosecutor's evidence is:
He has a picture of a pyramid in his pocket. The pyramid is an ancient Egyptian symbol for bad, murdering motherfuckers. In addition, the suspect went to grade school 20 years ago with another guy who was convicted of murdering a homeless guy for his shoes. This guy committed his murder during the day under the sun. The sun is another symbol used by other bad murdering motherfuckers. Thus, our current suspect is guilty.
Would you buy that? Of course you wouldn't. You'd get laughed out of court, out of a lab, out of a university, or any other institution based on evidence and fact. Yet we are all in "denial" because we don't go running into the streets with "THE END IS NEAR" sandwich boards with pictures of the shell logo and Isis on them because of your posts.
I don't close my mind to the possibility of conspiracy. But I maintain skepticism and in all the time you've spent on here writing hundreds of multipage masturbatory diatribes cribbed from the Da Vinci Code, you've never once given evidence. You've given a bunch of interesting coincidences that are fun to play with but are in no way proof of any of the claims you use them to support. There is no factual counterclaim on my part because you have given no facts to link these things other than coincidence. Just as you can't disprove God any easier than you can prove him, I can't really disprove something that was never proved to begin with. I'm sure if I have hours to spend scouring every wingnut internet source you read, I could grab a bunch of links and quotes and pictures that are NOT the same, but you'd say that's not enough, which is ironic because it's what you keep insisting should be enough for US to accept YOU. Lucky for us all, I don't have the time or inclination. But dunk already did a decent job of showing plenty of logos that don't fit your conspiracy mold, as well as providing much stronger evidence to explain your coincidences than the crap you've given.
Instead of further obfuscating (which this post, in fact, certainly is) answer one simple question:
Have i not PROVED, BEYOND DOUBT, THAT THE EYE AND PYRAMID IS A MASONIC SYMBOL?
Just answer the question, please.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Serious.
I wish I had people like you guys to talk to all the time. I'd be one happy camper. :geek:
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
As far as I have understood, if masons like something, it is to construct degrees. He was a high-ranking mason, granted. That doesnt lend much weight to your argument here though. But you seem to have mellowed to that some symbols of some companies share traits that may, if you look at it in the right light, look as something interesting going on. (looks to me you could have saved a couple of the exclamation marks used earlier on then) Again, a belief in the conspiracy is a prerequisite to see "the problem" at all. If the conspiracy seems unlikely from the outset (which is my firm belief in most of the incarnations that get thrown around this board), then the punch just disappears from the entire argument.
My problem with it is that loose random (yes, I call them that, no matter how hoity toity these saying it were) quotes about symbology doesn't really tell us anything, other than that masons like to use symbols. A trait they share with pretty much all of humanity. You trace sun symbology back thousands of years. Instead of thinking that means someone has controlled us for 2000 years, I find it immensely more probable that the inspiration is the same, and that certain archetypical beliefs and symbols we have dragged along with us from the start. Just as all newer religions stole alot of mythology and symbology from their predecessors, so do we loot old symbols. The sun is a no-brainer as a powerful symbol since everyone can see it in the sky, and can recognize it's importance for our survival. It can also be represented with one of the most fundamental shapes found in nature: a circle. It being so fundamental a shape, I have a hard time interpreting history from the notion that circles means the same bastards have had control all the time since it's "their mark".
As for the eye in the pyramid symbol, as far as I have understood, it's a symbol meaning more or less "enlightenment", and perhaps partiucularly in the sense of the enlightenment that did away with the old feudal hierarchies, and laid the groundwork for the rational, scientific society of today. (At any rate far more rational and more scientific than the predecessor) It's appearance in US government seals and so on may be because, many of your founding fathers were masons of the enlightenment persuasion. Masons deciding to use masonic imagery in their new enlightened state with no royal head. The American revolution holds a great debt to the enlightenment to happen at all. States like to use old symbolic relics from the past, since it makes them look more eternal and important. Norways shield is still a lion with an axe, god knows why, except that it's traditional. America got started in the enlightenment age, and carries enlightenment symbolics with it.
I am not blinded sheep that dont "see", I believe fully in limited conspiracies, corruption, good old boy networks, black ops and so forth. I just dont buy the package you offer, since it seems to require several unrealistic premises and a rather selective reading of history.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Hey Dan,
i don't have time right now either to read this whole post, or to respond in proper,
as i have to take a shower, get some grub, and then get on the road to Charlotte, asap, for a Lemonheads show.
However, i skimmed your response, and have to say, i respect your position -- surely it is the "logical" one -- but disagree in full.
When i get a chance, i will post up some very relevant and (i feel) enlightening quotes about all of this from a one Mr. Manly P. Hall.
From his quotes, it becomes evident what is in play here,
and it IS just as you argue against, a multi-thousand year old "conspiracy" of "enlightened" men to establish a global or world democratic government.
My problem is not with the ideal, it is with the implementation.
These guys are all fuck-ups and assholes, as far as i can see.
At least, the ones implementing these policies are.
I don't know who the ones behind the scenes making things happen are,
but one could hardly look at the mess surrounding the world at present,
or at events like the "global financial crisis" and call these things the work of "enlightened" men.
I just think they have their heads in their ass, to be honest.
If you want a world global democracy, then say so.
Literally, get your fucking asses on television, where all the doofus masses will see you, and proclaim your oh-so noble intentions. Do that and skip all the deceit, lies, and manipulation by oblique propaganda.
If it is such a noble pursuit, let it be judged by the light of day.
Otherwise, a "logical" person is forced to conclude as to your intentions by way of your actions -- judge a tree by its fruit, if you will -- and we know that it is not the work of light that is done by night.
Ah fuck it, i have five minutes.
Here are your quotes.
The following are from the book
The Secret Destiny of America, 1944, by Manly P. Hall
if you wan't to call his writings just the work of "some random guy" you may do so (just as you have done with Albert Pikes) but it is clear that someone is taking his words seriously.
Here we go,
starting out with the FIRST words in the book. Literally, this is from the caption under the picture at the very beginning of the first chapter:
"By preserved symbols we can know that it is from the remote past, from the deep shadows of the medieval world, as well as from the early struggles of more modern times, that the power of American democracy has come."
Well if that has you piqued, and maybe also rolling your eyes, perhaps you would like to check out the first paragraph of the book proper:
"AMERICA can not refuse the challenge of leadership in the postwar world. Mere physical reconstruction of ravaged countries and the reorganization of political, economic, and social systems is the lesser task we will face. The larger problem and the great challenge is in how to set up a new order of world ethics [does that language sound familiar? a new order of the world?] established on a foundation of democratic idealism.
Experts in various fields have already submitted programs designed to meet the needs of those nations whose way of life has been disrupted by war. But with the failing common to specially trained minds, these planners incline to think mostly in the terms of their own particular interests. [well he sure as hell got THAT part right!] As yet, no one has touched the fundamentals of international ethics. No one has advanced a working plan securely based upon a broad, deep, and sympathetic understanding of the human being and his problems. The thinking has been in the dual fields of power politics and material economics, with remedies expressed in terms of charts, blueprints, patterns, and industrial programs."
Well, thats all noble and good and sounds fine, but what is he really getting at?
Here you go, my socialist friend:
"It is not an easy task to unite the efforts of the human race toward the accomplishment of any common
good. Mankind in the majority is selfish, provincial in attitude, and concerned primarily with personal success and acquiring creature comforts. It will not be possible to build an enduring peace until the average man has been convinced that personal selfishness is detrimental to personal happiness and personal success. It must be shown that self-seeking has gone out of fashion, and that the world is moving on to a larger conception of living."
Right there, you have to stop and just WONDER, is THAT what this is all about?
is THIS what we are living through? Is THIS the nature and reason behind the global economic collapse?
Are we being mentally prepared for something beyond the current "selfish, provincial" attitude. Are we being "convinced that personal selfishness is detrimental to personal happiness and personal success"?
I dunno, but check this out.
If you're still not impressed, it gets much better:
"Believing this to be so [that man is an idealist, and that America must be made aware of her destiny], I dedicate this book to the proposition that American Democracy is part of a Universal Plan [Universal Plan? Hmm... what is he on about?].
Our world is ruled by inflexible laws which control not only the motions of the heavenly bodies, but the consequences of human conduct. These Universal motions, interpreted politically, are impelling human society out of a state of autocracy and tyranny to democracy and freedom. This motion is inevitable, for the growth of humans is a gradual development of mind over matter, and the"
Yep yep. We're getting somewhere.
But WHAT, EXACTLY does he mean to imply?
Lets lay it on the table, flat:
"Years of research among the records of olden peoples available in libraries, museums, and shrines of ancient cultures, has convinced me that there exists in the world today, and has existed for thousands of years, a body of enlightened humans united in what might be termed, an Order of the Quest. It is composed of those whose intellectual and spiritual perceptions have revealed to them that civilization has a Secret Destiny--secret, I say, because this high purpose is not realized by the many; the great masses of peoples still live along without any knowledge whatsoever that they are part of a Universal Motion in time and space.
Pythagoras, Plato, Aristotle, Buddha, Jesus and Mohammed are among the greatest names recorded in history; but it is not customary to regard the men who bore these names as statesmen or sociologists. They are thought of as philosophers, sages, seers, and mystics, whose doctrines have no application to the political needs of an industrial civilization. Yet it is men like Plato and Buddha who still exercise the most powerful force in mortal affairs toward the perpetuation and preservation of a civilized state among all nations.
All of the great leaders of ancient times realized and taught that the establishment of a state of permanent peace among the nations depended upon the release of human ideals, but through properly trained and disciplined minds capable of interpreting these ideals in terms of the common good.
World democracy was the secret dream of the great classical philosophers. Toward the accomplishment of this greatest of all human ends they outlined programs of education, religion, and social conduct directed to the ultimate achievement of a practical and universal brotherhood. And in order to accomplish their purposes more effectively, these ancient scholars bound themselves with certain mystic ties into a broad confraternity. In Egypt, Greece, India, and China, the State Mysteries came into existence. Orders of initiated priestphilosophers were formed as a sovereign body to instruct, advise, and direct the rulers of the States.
Thousands of years ago, in Egypt, these mystical orders were aware of the existence of the western hemisphere and the great continent which we call America. The bold resolution was made that this western continent should become the site of the philosophic empire. Just when this was done it is impossible now to say, but certainly the decision was reached prior to the time of Plato, for a thinly veiled statement of this resolution is the substance of his treatise on the Atlantic Islands.
One of the most ancient of man's constructive ideals is the dream of a universal democracy and a cooperation of all nations in a commonwealth of States. The mechanism for the accomplishment of this ideal was set in motion in the ancient temples of Greece, Egypt, and India. So brilliant was the plan and so well was it administrated that it has survived to our time, and it will continue to function until the great work is accomplished."
WOW!
If you made it through all that,
you CERTAINLY have something to WRAP YOUR HEAD AROUND.
NOW,
you can obviously sit back (just like i imagine Soulsinging to be doing right now) and declare to yourself, "What a load of crap. Who is this fucking windbag, Manly P Hall? Who gives a shit what this dumb fuck has to say." ...
but i would caution you that to dismiss the words he wrote is in all probability (best i can tell) to dismiss the truth.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
But... this doesnt prove or indicate anything other than that the author himself believes this to be so. And belief is pretty cheap. A quick internet search will find fervent believers in the strangest things, and boy, can they write books. I myself grew up with, but eventually out of von Daniken books for instance. In hindsight I realize how little substance he had to a lot of the things he wrote. I am now a lot more sceptic and wary to "alternative" theories (alternative does not mean it's a better one in itself), but I still get fascinated by them. In recent years the authors and believers in themselves fascinate me, but that's for another time.
Point is, the guys you quote say something meaningful, given the premise and context of the conspiracy being true. This only becomes interesting if you have already accepted the premise of the truth of the conspiracy. The long paragraphs you quoted me here, makes me merely shrug and think that is one man's opinion. That several people entertain similarly misleading ideas, doesnt make them true, it only signifies that an idea swirls around. That the man believes in the "just rulers of the world" or something doesnt mean they are real.
I sympathize somewhat with the sentiment. It would be great if the world really was controlled by a group of (evil, whatever) men. That would mean that we only had to recognize that, and force them to stop and the world would be peachy. However, I have no belief whatsoever in this being the case. Reality is alot more vague, messy and essentially meaningless than these theories will have you believe. Everything does not have a meaning in itself, but we can construct it, and we frequently do. That's how our minds work. Big happenings need big people, big influences carrying out their will. Big things must mean something. This is a human instinct that underlies a lot of what you post about. In olden days, such things were attributed to God's wrath, while today shadow government of the world is a more likely culprit (I have a book with jewish tales from Prague, and the matteroffactly retelling of a plague in the city that were halted only when the adultering couple owned up and took their punishment). Stuff like this is what I think about when reading fanciful tales with a lot of transparent agendas heaped on top to satisfy certain groups' prejudices. They go both left and right politically. (and some theories manage both, astonishingly)
You should read the novel "Foucault's pendulum" by Umberto Eco. A lot of the fave conspiracy hang-ons is utilized in the book in an entertaining manner. I just finished reading it myself. About a bunch of men publishing conspiracy books, but wanting to make the mother of all conspiracy tales themselves, and they get caught up in it by hitting onto something...
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
http://www.cracked.com/article_17469_5-pathetic-groups-that-people-think-rule-world.html
well that's the funniest thing i've read in quite a while....brilliant!!
+1
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
They nailed it.
I think they pretty much nailed it too... Except, I believe all of the groups in question there (Reptilians excluded, ha ha) are powerful enough to have some major impact on the events of the world, but more often than not, things don't go as planned. I think they just like to sit back and watch the fireworks, safe from the comfort of their estates.
Then again, some of the dullest minds think they have the right to control too. Just look at George W. Bush. But that is a whole OTHER story.......
Eric Hoffer said you should NEVER be a "true believer". I happen to think he was right.
Mohandas K. Gandhi
~I once had a sparrow alight upon my shoulder for a moment, while I was hoeing in a village garden, and I felt that I was more distinguished by that circumstance than I should have been by any epaulette I could have worn.~
Henry David Thoreau
http://pigs-in-the-parlor.blogspot.com/ ... tions.html
Hail Hail HIPPIEMOM
Wishlist Foundation-
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
info@wishlistfoundation.org
looks like this asshole is involved in the government cover up as well...maybe Alex Jones is the man behind the mask. It's very disturbing because I've never seen this hand sign be used for anything...ANYTHING
http://www.utexas.edu/friends/graphics/ ... 24x768.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3273/274 ... f5.jpg?v=0
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
http://blogs.static.mentalfloss.com/blo ... 32057.html
sure.
what exactly is it that you want me to comment on?
i'm not sure i see the intention behind the article.
half of what is in there is just a discussion about series dates and other such miscellany.
The top half of the article is a VERY CURSORY discussion about the "origins" of the Great Seal of the United States. All though, in my humble opinion, the article utterly fails to even get passed the most basic explanation of where the seal actually came from.
If you really want to see a well put together research piece on the dollar, the seal, the masonic influence over the whole affair, i suggest you check out Eye of the Phoenix which is the 3rd part of what the creators hope will be a 8 or 9 part documentary, that started with parts 1 and 2 of Secret Mysteries of America's Beginning: The New Atlantis, and Riddles In Stone: Secret Architecture of Washington, DC, respectively.
Again, i would comment further, but given that not much was really said in the article, i don't know what i am actually responding to. Certainly nothing was debunked, as like i say, nothing was really said.
To illustrate, you can do a simple google search "masonic eye" and come up with countless images of aprons, temples, and whatnot that have the All Seeing Eye on them, clearly masonic in affiliation, and clearly predating the founding of the United States.
FDR certainly was a mason, and it certainly had a LOT to do with why he picked it for the Fed Reserve notes. Again, go watch Eye of the Phoenix. This is discussed in detail in that documentary, along with lots of information on who people like FDR were connected to, and how they came to the opinions they did on the subject.
There is also a fair amount of discussion there about the founders and the seal, although ALL of that is based more in "legend" than in fact at this point. The truth is, no one really seems to know who came up with the idea of putting a masonic eye on the seal or why. Though we have historical documents to prove that Benjamin Franklin was the Grand Master of the Philadelphia Grand Lodge, essentially meaning he was the head mason in all of america at the time. Jefferson was an illuminist supporter at the very least. Again, we have the record written in his own pen to prove it (the original is housed in his own university, UVa). He thought Wishaupt was a brilliant and well meaning man, and that those original "conspiracy theorists", Barruel and Robinson (direct to pdf) both by name, were little more than ill informed fearmongers -- a sentiment that seems to still ring true today amongst "enlightened" folks like Soulsinging and JLew et. al.
Anyhow.
Let me know what you really want to hear me say, and i'll try to get at it.
Glad this thread ain't dead yet.
It's probably more important that many here would wish it to be.
And that ain't tootin my own horn, thats just the troof o de matta.
Ps.
Sun symbolism can be found on the very first american coin:
Franklin's Fugio
The All Seeing Eye on the 1785 colonial "Immune Columbia"
as well as the:
1783 Nova Constellatio
and the:
1787 "Excelsior" coins which came in at least 2 different image sets. One a bird with a sun. One a mountain with a sun rising over it.
And there is yet another early american coin, which i have forgotten the name of (my gf has a picture of it in her coin book, i can have her look it up) which is listed as the first US gold coin in her book, and it indeed has an image of the Eye and Pyramid on it.
But again, all the POST dates the MASONIC usage of the All Seeing Eye image.
But whatever.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I guess you said more than enough of what I was looking for in this post. Thanks.