Dunkman, you are probably right about SOME of these logos.
But you will never convince me that TIme Warner and AOL, who MERGED together, BOTH are sporting DIRECT SYMBOLS OF THE SUN in their logos. I don't mean JUST eyes. Youve got TimeWarner that is CLEARLY the EYE OF RA. See that little curl hanging down and to the right? Thats not JUST an eye. And the AOL logo is an EYE in a Pyramid. What, are you going to tell me it represents an iCam or something?
i'm not going to tell you fucking anything .. thats where we differ
i'll look at the evidence you have given and then i'll offer mine...
you answered someones question as to WHY? why have the sun? whats the point of it with this
one assumption would be that secret symbology is used amongst and between participants of the ruling elite in order to more easily communicate ownership.
but i can understand that if the design brief from these big companies was "hey designer dude... make us a new logo could you? yeah, we're a bank from Iceland, but put a big fucking sun in there could you as we are part of a secret elite organisation that controls the capitalist world"
but the design brief is normally something like
"hey guys, i'm just a pathetic accountant... come up with something cool and we'll pay you a few thousand to talk shit about how it represents revitalisation, growth, energy, life"
as for Time Warner and AOL... i'll look into it... but your original post had something like 70 logos on it... now you just want to concentrate on 2? did the other 68 not fit the theory?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
While I was reading this post, my (almost) 3 yr old was sitting across the room, unable to see my computer screen and drawing a huge SUN on her Doodle Pro. I don't know what that means, but it certainly did tickle me.
While I was reading this post, my (almost) 3 yr old was sitting across the room, unable to see my computer screen and drawing a huge SUN on her Doodle Pro. I don't know what that means, but it certainly did tickle me.
it means...............he watches too much tv or computer.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
While I was reading this post, my (almost) 3 yr old was sitting across the room, unable to see my computer screen and drawing a huge SUN on her Doodle Pro. I don't know what that means, but it certainly did tickle me.
They get you early, is what .
Generally, linking ancient history, mythology and all that with modern times, places and people are in the extreme far-fetched. Just because we now can read books about it from the shelf next to billionaire biographies, doesn't mean they are in any way connected, although our minds work in such ways that we always look for connecting stuff we see. A circle, the sun and whatever, has been the basis of religions, and humans have since time immemorial liked such symbols. Circles, triangles, stars, half moons abound throughout human history. That doesnt imply conspiracy and control, it implies people thinking similarly and perhaps in archetypes a la Jung.
Repeating basic geometric shapes in logos is far easier and less messily explained by graphic designers nowadays liking clean and basic logos. It's in the times to be minimalistic, and logos based on basic geometric shapes like circles and triangles are in vogue. Simple, inobtrusive logos that can be slapped on anything are better than ornamental, complicated ones. And the more the company can be associated with a basic geometric shape, so much the better. That means we may think of the company when we encounter that shape elsewhere. Circles can signify all sorts of things: Coins (which may make it a fave in banking etc), the Sun, continuity, eternity, bottle caps and so on.
Basically, what dunkman said.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
time warner logo creator... here;s an interview with him.
DESIGNER AT CHERMAYEFF & GEISMAR
What determines the choice of colors when you design a corporate logo? Well, most corporations tend to prefer blue to any other color. It doesn’t have any negative connotation. It evokes the sky, etc. Blue is safe.
Blue doesn’t have to be the color of the whole logo, of course. We designed MOBIL that has a red “O” in it, but it’s an accent within a blue logo. The same holds true for many others that are basically a blue scale with maybe a red accent.
Red is usually perceived, at least on the corporate level, perhaps as too aggressive. I don’t think that we have at this point to overcome the political stigma that red is communism. That used to be in the olden days, I don’t think that’s the case anymore.
When you are commissioned to design a logo, how much freedom do you have to decide what the colors are going to be? We always make recommendations, and try to be reasonable about it but a lot of our work has to do with mergers or companies upgrading what they had in the past. Often a corporation associates with a color and feels strongly about it, you can try to maybe swing away from this with a hue which may be more memorable or has more distinction to it, but often it is very much influenced by the past.
Color is never brought up as the original question. It always comes along with the symbol or the logotype.
When you get into the range of symbols even more so, it has to do with what the company is about. In NBC’s case, the revelation was that ABC was perceived as black and white, CBS did not have much color to it and NBC had this great advantage in having a symbol [the peacock] that stood for color. That peacock was a symbol for color television, it was not the symbol for NBC. They just adopted it as a pet. It used to say: “Brought to you in living color” and then the peacock came on the screen to announce that the program was changing from black and white to color. And then NBC adopted it because it has a great deal to do which what they’re about, which is color television.
In another case, if you do, let’s say, a symbol for Central Park, you have a good chance of making that green, simply because it implies a relief from all the city grey. It obviously has to do with what it’s about.
What are your limitations when reworking or updating a corporate logo? Well if it is a reworking of something or a merging of an old company with another old company of course you try to see what their past has been, because you try to have some continuation. It’s often very helpful to tie in, especially if there is equity in the perception or equity in the visual heritage companies bring with them. You try to, at least, tie something over.
TIME WARNER is perhaps an extreme example, both companies’ identities were given up in order to attain a new one. It was the only way to do so because both had a very strong product identification. For TIME, nobody knows really what TIME INC. looks like, but they know the product, they know what TIME magazine looks like, and LIFE, PEOPLE magazine, FORTUNE, TIME LIFE books and what have you. For WARNER the “W” in a sort of TV shape was not quite as well known as for instance the WARNER BROS. shield, which was a division of WARNER COMMUNICATION, so the corporate heritage was not that strong. Nevertheless, even though it’s a completely new symbol,that signifies an eye and an ear, in the end it goes back to blue because that is what they are used to, both of them.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Designer Steff Geissbuhler commented on his design shortly after its release: "Warner is primarily entertainment, Time is essentially journalism. So a common denominator needed to be much broader: looking and listening, reading and hearing, receiving and sending....I believe the time has come to bring back more symbolic marks when possible and appropriate, because we've been oversaturated with abstractions and letterforms....Of course, all this has to be reviewed in a year or two, and then we'll see if we were right."
In 1993, Time Warner replaced the evocative eye/ear symbol with a neutral typographic treatment of the company's name; Chermayeff & Geismar's unusual symbol proved too strong a statement for Time Warner, a vast conglomerate that encompasses numerous separate brand identities having their own distinctive visual marks. The hieroglyph is now used only to identify Time Warner Cable.
interesting in that Time Warner gave up the logo feeling it to strong?... wouldnt their elitist buddies be upset about that... not sure if they were still part of the gang?
again.. please read how it was the design of a Swiss logo designer and not the design brief of a megalomaniac conglomerate...
up next ... AOL debunked
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
This is ACN, or American Communications Network,
it is the largest provider of direct-sales telecommunications services in the world:
Both companies being private,
you can't get ownership information.
Sweet.
Here is The Information Awareness Office,
a subgroup of The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA),
itself an agency of the United States Department of Defense:
Here is CAT or Caterpillar Inc. ,
the worlds largest construction equipment manufacturer, 50 on Fortune 500 List, $30 Billion in Assets
yellow pyramid (spelling it out for the obtuse):
Extremely old "Master Mason" Apron presented to high level Freemasons:
Here is a special "payment" coin for "Mark Masons": source page
Masonic Lodge Sign Displaying the Cross Of Lorraine, for those doubting the Exxon logo connection:
Also note the SKULL & BONES, another very important symbol of high level masonry.
Another Masonic Master Mason's Apron, PYRAMID WITH SUN RAYS, CIRCLE AND DOT:
Another Apron, EYE IN PYRAMID:
Sun with Black Sun in the Center of a Zodiac inside a Masonic Lodge,
Remember the Sun and Zodiac on Bracken House?
From a Masonic Degree Chart, RISING SUN OVER PYRAMID in the center:
And finally, for today, the symbol of the 33rd Degree of Freemasonry:
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I think its very easy to read too much into all this conspiracy lark. There may have been some truth at an ancient level and if there was I'm sure it was very localised, as in contained within one or two societies or organisations, it was probably not as global as you may think.
Nowadays, because the world is so globally interconnected there isn't so much of a need to have secret symbols to spell things out to others. Everything is stolen anyway and used by whoever, so if one company uses the eye and another a pyramid and another a sun doesn't mean that they are communicating secret signals to each other. They probably just copied each other's ideas!
Remember everything has to go through marketing and PR departments too - believe me PR people aren't going to want to get their brand entangled with giving out secret messages etc. The potential for PR disaster would be too huge for them to even consider it!
This is becoming more complex than it really is.
The PR people and the news people and the manufacturing people are all owned by the same corporations. They are broken up into companies, but they fall under the same umbrella. The same old dudes decide policy for every one of them. As companies merge, power is consolidated, it all very simple.
So you could have PR companies owned directly by a corporation that also owns the company they are providing a service too. Probably common.
The secret society idea is accurate. There is a group of stuffy old guys gathering behind closed doors every year deciding policy, Drifting showed some evidence of that in the "one europe currency" thread, and there is a ton of circumstantial evidence pointing to that as well, and the symbols in this thread point to a collusion of some kind also. The Bilderberg group meets every year to do exactly that. That's no secret. What they decide is, but the fact that they meet isn't.
Some of these corporations make more money than countries like Greece. How do you expect a third world country like Zimbabwe to compete or regulate an institution that has 10-20-100 times as much money to spend. And reality reflects that. Companies like Coca-cola are hiring assassins to deal with union leaders in some cases, and the governments can't complain (nor are they motivated to do so in most cases)
And these are fascist institutions. They can only be influenced by money/power. In order serve them through labor, (working for a strangers bottom line) you have to submit yourself to a fascist environment. You fuck up or not, you disagree with the boss, your gone. Its direct control. No secret.
Back in the day governments had the upper hand, I believe. Today governments work for these corporations. And policy reflects that. Send armies to Cuba, Vietnam, East Timor..etc join forces against the USSR.
Why do you think there was such hysteria surrounding communism? Or surrounding Venezuela or Cuba. The very concept is a threat to private profit. Its not a threat to anything but private profit.
Its not so convoluted as a secret skull and bones society pulling strings from secret underground catacombs with ancient rituals taking power from satan or whatever (although they may do all of those things or pretend to)-the guys pulling the strings are the guys that own these companies. They don't have to have blackmail type situation to influence policy-they decide it directly. If someone doesn't go along with their schemes, they are fired.
and its the same in every industry.
All these powerful institutions are working towards the same goal. Private profit. And its a small group of individuals that benefit from these policies.
The use of symbols that are familiar to eachother allows members to support, buy stock in, and generally promote the business interests of the firms which are "of the brotherhood", so to speak.?
I think you may be on to something there.... the sun again.....
Whilst I get your drift and all this symbolism is very interesting indeed, one needs to look into this objectively and not try to read something esoteric, mysterious or even devious into everything.
Sure all the symbols such as the sun, eye, circle, etc. are very important in a lot of ancient cultures/cults/religions, etc. their 'meaning' was perceived very differently then because of the beliefs in those times.
What comes out nowadays in various books (The Da Vinci Code being one of them), is very far fetched.
Diagnostic Systems is the global leader of products and instruments used for diagnosing infectious diseases. Our products are used in the clinical market to screen for microbial presence, grow and identify organisms, and test for antibiotic susceptiblity. In the industrial market, Diagnostic Systems' products are used for the testing of sterile and non-sterile pharmaceuticals and medical devices, for environmental monitoring and to detect food pathogens.
I saw this place trying to skip the belt way and taking an old state route home today.
This is a bioscience\medical technology company\companies, that seems to manufacture a lot of stuff related to HIV\AIDS testing, among other things.
BD has been a Fortune 500 company since the early 1960's
passed the billion dollars in sales mark in the 1980's
and adopted its current logo in 1999.
The logo is CLEARLY a RISING SUN coming out of what is a subtle but obvious inverted PYRAMID on top of ... what? AN EYE?
Can i get my "This is all Jungian imagery, and Lazy Graphic Designers" crew to step forward and tell me exactly what business or by way of what crazy inference of marketing genius this "global leader" bioscience firm ended up with a rising sun from an upside down pyramid over an eye?
BTW -- according to their press release this symbol is "a human figure embracing rays of light" ... oh, okay!
Just another top tier, best in class company with a rising sun\ eye \ pyramid logo.
Don't forget your H1N1 SWINE FLU diagnostic products while you're stopping by their site. Thank god we have business' like BD around to protect us!
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
BTW -- according to their press release this symbol is "a human figure embracing rays of light" ... oh, okay!
You know, before reading your op/ed further down and this exaplanation, that's exactly what I thought it looked like. Anything which has two lines at an angle can be triangular/pyramid shaped if you want it to, especially if you include "inverted" to the list. Granted, the human figure could arguably be viewed as half an eye, but my first impression was of a human figure with outstretched arms towards the light/sunrise. I do not find it weird that a cutting edge medical tecnology company would want light and sun imagery in their logo, as it represents enlightenment. The logo as a whole gives the impression of "embracing a grand new tomorrow" vibe to me, which is probably what they were aiming for.
But to follow the logic of your argument, can we deduce that all the companies that doesn't have arguable sun/pyramid/eye constellations in their logo is off the hook, and clearly no part of the global conspiracy? I'd think that would exclude many companies that you'd like to include...
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
BTW -- according to their press release this symbol is "a human figure embracing rays of light" ... oh, okay!
You know, before reading your op/ed further down and this exaplanation, that's exactly what I thought it looked like. Anything which has two lines at an angle can be triangular/pyramid shaped if you want it to, especially if you include "inverted" to the list. Granted, the human figure could arguably be viewed as half an eye, but my first impression was of a human figure with outstretched arms towards the light/sunrise. I do not find it weird that a cutting edge medical tecnology company would want light and sun imagery in their logo, as it represents enlightenment. The logo as a whole gives the impression of "embracing a grand new tomorrow" vibe to me, which is probably what they were aiming for.
But to follow the logic of your argument, can we deduce that all the companies that doesn't have arguable sun/pyramid/eye constellations in their logo is off the hook, and clearly no part of the global conspiracy? I'd think that would exclude many companies that you'd like to include...
Peace
Dan
i agree.
especially your last paragraph.
top 10 companies in the world
1. Walmart (only changed to a sun logo in 2008)
2. Exxon Mobil (no sun in the logo)
3. Shell ( a shell)
4. BP (helios symbol ... this after it became one of the worlds top 10 companies... which begs the question.. how did it ever break into the top 10 without a sun logo!!!!)
5. Toyota - brilliant logo... three ovals which represent the the globe, togetherness and yet also make up the T of the name... incidentally.. toyota name was chosen as it requires 8 strokes to write... 8 being a lucky and prosperous number in Japan.
6. Chevron - 2 chevrons
7. ING Group - The Lion is the symbol of ING since 1991. The lion is the king of animals and a symbol of power. Orange is the national colour of the Netherlands and also the symbol of the Netherlands
8. Total - The TOTAL logo’s spherical shape, airy quality, openess and colours - conveying renewal and forward-looking approach - reflect the international scope of our businesses, our commitment to multiple energies and our ability to help the world progress and to foster interaction... bit wordy but nonetheless.. not a sun.
9. General Motors - GM... with a wee line.
10. ConocoPhilips - nice logo actually... no suns though.
so... out of the worlds TOP 10 companies... one of them has a Helios symbol (BP) and that was only acquired in or around 2000.... it was a shield before that... how did it get so goddammed powerful without a sun type logo i wonder?
Wal-Mart..... huge company... clearly!... and yet its new logo was only designed in 2008... before that it was a 5 pointed star... and before that... well for 12 years before that it was a HYPHEN... a plain old WAL-MART up until 1992 and that branding of a simple hyphen made it one of the top 5 companies in the world... huh? thats so weird.. how come?
I also have to re-iterate that the logos are the graphic design companies ideas which are then presented to a board of directors/marketing directorates... some agencies produce up to 4 or 5 idents for a new marketing re-branding... some might use a sun symbol.. some might use a hieroglyphic... some might use a tree... but its would be very rare... very rare.. for a company to TELL a graphic design agency that they must include a SUN symbol in a new logo that never previously did.. the Sun is life... its one of the most powerful and instantly recognisable symbols in the world... ergo.. it gets used a fucking shitload for logos... as i said before, which you clearly mocked as you are such a super duper clever clogs (which translated means "you read stuff online a lot"), graphic designers, marketing agencies etc... are very lazy... they re-invent the wheel a lot of the time... its hard not to... create a simple yet powerful logo that shows a company has strength, growth, power, trust, etc.... for me its either a tree... or the sun...
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
BD has been a Fortune 500 company since the early 1960's
yet had no pyramid/sun logo during that time?... hmmmm .... weird how it got so powerful then?
passed the billion dollars in sales mark in the 1980's
and adopted its current logo in 1999.
it was making BILLIONS in the 80s... without a sun logo? i'm perturbed by this... do you mean it can become one of the worlds biggest companies without a sun/eye/pyramid logo.. and then it NEEDS a new logo to subvert our tiny minds ONCE it has already made billions???
The logo is CLEARLY a RISING SUN coming out of what is a subtle but obvious inverted PYRAMID on top of ... what? AN EYE?
Can i get my "This is all Jungian imagery, and Lazy Graphic Designers" crew to step forward and tell me exactly what business or by way of what crazy inference of marketing genius this "global leader" bioscience firm ended up with a rising sun from an upside down pyramid over an eye?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
driftin, I thought you were going to pick your battles more carefully because you "get laughed at". do you really think this is a battle that is worth your time? I mean seriously. stick you battling the ballooning size of our government and its out of control spending...you would probably find alot of people to support you instead of laugh and silly shit like this.
4. BP (helios symbol ... this after it became one of the worlds top 10 companies... which begs the question.. how did it ever break into the top 10 without a sun logo!!!!)
5. Toyota - brilliant logo... three ovals which represent the the globe, togetherness and yet also make up the T of the name... incidentally.. toyota name was chosen as it requires 8 strokes to write... 8 being a lucky and prosperous number in Japan.
6. Chevron - 2 chevrons
7. ING Group - The Lion is the symbol of ING since 1991. The lion is the king of animals and a symbol of power. Orange is the national colour of the Netherlands and also the symbol of the Netherlands
8. Total - The TOTAL logo’s spherical shape, airy quality, openess and colours - conveying renewal and forward-looking approach - reflect the international scope of our businesses, our commitment to multiple energies and our ability to help the world progress and to foster interaction... bit wordy but nonetheless.. not a sun.
9. General Motors - GM... with a wee line.
10. ConocoPhilips - nice logo actually... no suns though.
so... out of the worlds TOP 10 companies... one of them has a Helios symbol (BP) and that was only acquired in or around 2000.... it was a shield before that... how did it get so goddammed powerful without a sun type logo i wonder?
Wal-Mart..... huge company... clearly!... and yet its new logo was only designed in 2008... before that it was a 5 pointed star... and before that... well for 12 years before that it was a HYPHEN... a plain old WAL-MART up until 1992 and that branding of a simple hyphen made it one of the top 5 companies in the world... huh? thats so weird.. how come?
I also have to re-iterate that the logos are the graphic design companies ideas which are then presented to a board of directors/marketing directorates... some agencies produce up to 4 or 5 idents for a new marketing re-branding... some might use a sun symbol.. some might use a hieroglyphic... some might use a tree... but its would be very rare... very rare.. for a company to TELL a graphic design agency that they must include a SUN symbol in a new logo that never previously did.. the Sun is life... its one of the most powerful and instantly recognisable symbols in the world... ergo.. it gets used a fucking shitload for logos... as i said before, which you clearly mocked as you are such a super duper clever clogs (which translated means "you read stuff online a lot"), graphic designers, marketing agencies etc... are very lazy... they re-invent the wheel a lot of the time... its hard not to... create a simple yet powerful logo that shows a company has strength, growth, power, trust, etc.... for me its either a tree... or the sun...
You're just not looking hard enough. See, if you take those logos, fold them 3/4 ways along the horizontal line, hold them up to a light, then take a pen and draw a sun on them... voila! They ALL have the sun logo! It's a CONSPIRACY I tell you! They're all out to pollute our precious bodily fluids!
The logo is CLEARLY a RISING SUN coming out of what is a subtle but obvious inverted PYRAMID on top of ... what? AN EYE?
My lil' 4 year old neighbour was around as I had this up on screen. Even she recognised it for what it was... outstretched arms with a lil' head in the middle.
Does anyone else think that the Sun is the most important aspect of our lives... or am I the only one?
The Sun is a giver of life and without it, life as we know it would not be possible. Yeah... I know about those tiny crusteceans that live at the bottom of the Marianas Trench... I'm talking about us and lions and orange trees and crickets. The Sun has been worshipped by Man ever since we crept out of the shadows of the dinosaurs as rodents.
...
Now, as to modern day corporations, churches and secret societies... of course the Sun will show up as symbolism. It still remains the most dominant body in our sky. Maybe we don't openly worship the Sun anymore.. and take it for granted in our busy lives... but, it still remains, The Most Dominant celestrial body in our lives. That's why people put it on their logos. Hell, look at Japan... they got it on their Flag.
...
As for all that Free Mason stuff... I'm a bit skeptical.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Don't forget about Colorado... Those conniving bastards are just lying in wait for for our country to screw up enough, then they are going to start taking surrounding states over....
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
and just think... clock faces are circular... and the sun was obviously used to tell the time on the earliest sun-dials..
so not a complete waste of time.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
4. BP (helios symbol ... this after it became one of the worlds top 10 companies... which begs the question.. how did it ever break into the top 10 without a sun logo!!!!
The top four are ALL sun symbols.
It would be dishonest for you to suggest they are not.
If you can't understand that Exxon = Cross of Lorraine,
again, what can i say?
Cross of Lorraine,
ancient Hermetic symbol
closely relate to the Knights Templar
and to ancient royal bloodlines.
Someone is doing their damnedest to avoid seeing something that is VERY obvious.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Comments
i'm not going to tell you fucking anything .. thats where we differ
i'll look at the evidence you have given and then i'll offer mine...
you answered someones question as to WHY? why have the sun? whats the point of it with this
but i can understand that if the design brief from these big companies was "hey designer dude... make us a new logo could you? yeah, we're a bank from Iceland, but put a big fucking sun in there could you as we are part of a secret elite organisation that controls the capitalist world"
but the design brief is normally something like
"hey guys, i'm just a pathetic accountant... come up with something cool and we'll pay you a few thousand to talk shit about how it represents revitalisation, growth, energy, life"
as for Time Warner and AOL... i'll look into it... but your original post had something like 70 logos on it... now you just want to concentrate on 2? did the other 68 not fit the theory?
Generally, linking ancient history, mythology and all that with modern times, places and people are in the extreme far-fetched. Just because we now can read books about it from the shelf next to billionaire biographies, doesn't mean they are in any way connected, although our minds work in such ways that we always look for connecting stuff we see. A circle, the sun and whatever, has been the basis of religions, and humans have since time immemorial liked such symbols. Circles, triangles, stars, half moons abound throughout human history. That doesnt imply conspiracy and control, it implies people thinking similarly and perhaps in archetypes a la Jung.
Repeating basic geometric shapes in logos is far easier and less messily explained by graphic designers nowadays liking clean and basic logos. It's in the times to be minimalistic, and logos based on basic geometric shapes like circles and triangles are in vogue. Simple, inobtrusive logos that can be slapped on anything are better than ornamental, complicated ones. And the more the company can be associated with a basic geometric shape, so much the better. That means we may think of the company when we encounter that shape elsewhere. Circles can signify all sorts of things: Coins (which may make it a fave in banking etc), the Sun, continuity, eternity, bottle caps and so on.
Basically, what dunkman said.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q
DESIGNER AT CHERMAYEFF & GEISMAR
What determines the choice of colors when you design a corporate logo?
Well, most corporations tend to prefer blue to any other color. It doesn’t have any negative connotation. It evokes the sky, etc. Blue is safe.
Blue doesn’t have to be the color of the whole logo, of course. We designed MOBIL that has a red “O” in it, but it’s an accent within a blue logo. The same holds true for many others that are basically a blue scale with maybe a red accent.
Red is usually perceived, at least on the corporate level, perhaps as too aggressive. I don’t think that we have at this point to overcome the political stigma that red is communism. That used to be in the olden days, I don’t think that’s the case anymore.
When you are commissioned to design a logo, how much freedom do you have to decide what the colors are going to be?
We always make recommendations, and try to be reasonable about it but a lot of our work has to do with mergers or companies upgrading what they had in the past. Often a corporation associates with a color and feels strongly about it, you can try to maybe swing away from this with a hue which may be more memorable or has more distinction to it, but often it is very much influenced by the past.
Color is never brought up as the original question. It always comes along with the symbol or the logotype.
When you get into the range of symbols even more so, it has to do with what the company is about. In NBC’s case, the revelation was that ABC was perceived as black and white, CBS did not have much color to it and NBC had this great advantage in having a symbol [the peacock] that stood for color. That peacock was a symbol for color television, it was not the symbol for NBC. They just adopted it as a pet. It used to say: “Brought to you in living color” and then the peacock came on the screen to announce that the program was changing from black and white to color. And then NBC adopted it because it has a great deal to do which what they’re about, which is color television.
In another case, if you do, let’s say, a symbol for Central Park, you have a good chance of making that green, simply because it implies a relief from all the city grey. It obviously has to do with what it’s about.
What are your limitations when reworking or updating a corporate logo?
Well if it is a reworking of something or a merging of an old company with another old company of course you try to see what their past has been, because you try to have some continuation. It’s often very helpful to tie in, especially if there is equity in the perception or equity in the visual heritage companies bring with them. You try to, at least, tie something over.
TIME WARNER is perhaps an extreme example, both companies’ identities were given up in order to attain a new one. It was the only way to do so because both had a very strong product identification. For TIME, nobody knows really what TIME INC. looks like, but they know the product, they know what TIME magazine looks like, and LIFE, PEOPLE magazine, FORTUNE, TIME LIFE books and what have you. For WARNER the “W” in a sort of TV shape was not quite as well known as for instance the WARNER BROS. shield, which was a division of WARNER COMMUNICATION, so the corporate heritage was not that strong. Nevertheless, even though it’s a completely new symbol, that signifies an eye and an ear, in the end it goes back to blue because that is what they are used to, both of them.
Designer Steff Geissbuhler commented on his design shortly after its release: "Warner is primarily entertainment, Time is essentially journalism. So a common denominator needed to be much broader: looking and listening, reading and hearing, receiving and sending....I believe the time has come to bring back more symbolic marks when possible and appropriate, because we've been oversaturated with abstractions and letterforms....Of course, all this has to be reviewed in a year or two, and then we'll see if we were right."
In 1993, Time Warner replaced the evocative eye/ear symbol with a neutral typographic treatment of the company's name; Chermayeff & Geismar's unusual symbol proved too strong a statement for Time Warner, a vast conglomerate that encompasses numerous separate brand identities having their own distinctive visual marks. The hieroglyph is now used only to identify Time Warner Cable.
interesting in that Time Warner gave up the logo feeling it to strong?... wouldnt their elitist buddies be upset about that... not sure if they were still part of the gang?
again.. please read how it was the design of a Swiss logo designer and not the design brief of a megalomaniac conglomerate...
up next ... AOL debunked
This is ACN, or American Communications Network,
it is the largest provider of direct-sales telecommunications services in the world:
Both companies being private,
you can't get ownership information.
Sweet.
Here is The Information Awareness Office,
a subgroup of The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA),
itself an agency of the United States Department of Defense:
Here is CAT or Caterpillar Inc. ,
the worlds largest construction equipment manufacturer, 50 on Fortune 500 List, $30 Billion in Assets
yellow pyramid (spelling it out for the obtuse):
INSIDE OF A MASONIC LODGE:
larger photo for the blind
Extremely old "Master Mason" Apron presented to high level Freemasons:
Here is a special "payment" coin for "Mark Masons":
source page
Masonic Lodge Sign Displaying the Cross Of Lorraine, for those doubting the Exxon logo connection:
Also note the SKULL & BONES, another very important symbol of high level masonry.
Another Masonic Master Mason's Apron, PYRAMID WITH SUN RAYS, CIRCLE AND DOT:
Another Apron, EYE IN PYRAMID:
Sun with Black Sun in the Center of a Zodiac inside a Masonic Lodge,
Remember the Sun and Zodiac on Bracken House?
From a Masonic Degree Chart, RISING SUN OVER PYRAMID in the center:
And finally, for today, the symbol of the 33rd Degree of Freemasonry:
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Right,
i think this is BEYOND COINCIDENCE:
from United National Supreme Council, Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite
But i know, i know,
graphic designers are lazy.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Edit: Sweet, you can totally become a fan of the unmasons if you use facebook.
http://www.unmasons.com/
:roll:
The PR people and the news people and the manufacturing people are all owned by the same corporations. They are broken up into companies, but they fall under the same umbrella. The same old dudes decide policy for every one of them. As companies merge, power is consolidated, it all very simple.
So you could have PR companies owned directly by a corporation that also owns the company they are providing a service too. Probably common.
The secret society idea is accurate. There is a group of stuffy old guys gathering behind closed doors every year deciding policy, Drifting showed some evidence of that in the "one europe currency" thread, and there is a ton of circumstantial evidence pointing to that as well, and the symbols in this thread point to a collusion of some kind also. The Bilderberg group meets every year to do exactly that. That's no secret. What they decide is, but the fact that they meet isn't.
Some of these corporations make more money than countries like Greece. How do you expect a third world country like Zimbabwe to compete or regulate an institution that has 10-20-100 times as much money to spend. And reality reflects that. Companies like Coca-cola are hiring assassins to deal with union leaders in some cases, and the governments can't complain (nor are they motivated to do so in most cases)
And these are fascist institutions. They can only be influenced by money/power. In order serve them through labor, (working for a strangers bottom line) you have to submit yourself to a fascist environment. You fuck up or not, you disagree with the boss, your gone. Its direct control. No secret.
Back in the day governments had the upper hand, I believe. Today governments work for these corporations. And policy reflects that. Send armies to Cuba, Vietnam, East Timor..etc join forces against the USSR.
Why do you think there was such hysteria surrounding communism? Or surrounding Venezuela or Cuba. The very concept is a threat to private profit. Its not a threat to anything but private profit.
Its not so convoluted as a secret skull and bones society pulling strings from secret underground catacombs with ancient rituals taking power from satan or whatever (although they may do all of those things or pretend to)-the guys pulling the strings are the guys that own these companies. They don't have to have blackmail type situation to influence policy-they decide it directly. If someone doesn't go along with their schemes, they are fired.
and its the same in every industry.
All these powerful institutions are working towards the same goal. Private profit. And its a small group of individuals that benefit from these policies.
To hell with the rest of us.
ACN is a cult and a scam. I have a friend that is being suckered by them now.
Becton Dickinson
BD
BD Biosciences
BD Medical Supplies
or
BD Diagnostic Systems
[among quite a few other offshoots, apparently]
BD Diagnostic Systems
I saw this place trying to skip the belt way and taking an old state route home today.
This is a bioscience\medical technology company\companies, that seems to manufacture a lot of stuff related to HIV\AIDS testing, among other things.
BD has been a Fortune 500 company since the early 1960's
passed the billion dollars in sales mark in the 1980's
and adopted its current logo in 1999.
The logo is CLEARLY a RISING SUN coming out of what is a subtle but obvious inverted PYRAMID on top of ... what? AN EYE?
Can i get my "This is all Jungian imagery, and Lazy Graphic Designers" crew to step forward and tell me exactly what business or by way of what crazy inference of marketing genius this "global leader" bioscience firm ended up with a rising sun from an upside down pyramid over an eye?
BTW -- according to their press release this symbol is "a human figure embracing rays of light" ... oh, okay!
Just another top tier, best in class company with a rising sun\ eye \ pyramid logo.
Don't forget your H1N1 SWINE FLU diagnostic products while you're stopping by their site. Thank god we have business' like BD around to protect us!
If I opened it now would you not understand?
But to follow the logic of your argument, can we deduce that all the companies that doesn't have arguable sun/pyramid/eye constellations in their logo is off the hook, and clearly no part of the global conspiracy? I'd think that would exclude many companies that you'd like to include...
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
i agree.
especially your last paragraph.
top 10 companies in the world
1. Walmart (only changed to a sun logo in 2008)
2. Exxon Mobil (no sun in the logo)
3. Shell ( a shell)
4. BP (helios symbol ... this after it became one of the worlds top 10 companies... which begs the question.. how did it ever break into the top 10 without a sun logo!!!!)
5. Toyota - brilliant logo... three ovals which represent the the globe, togetherness and yet also make up the T of the name... incidentally.. toyota name was chosen as it requires 8 strokes to write... 8 being a lucky and prosperous number in Japan.
6. Chevron - 2 chevrons
7. ING Group - The Lion is the symbol of ING since 1991. The lion is the king of animals and a symbol of power. Orange is the national colour of the Netherlands and also the symbol of the Netherlands
8. Total - The TOTAL logo’s spherical shape, airy quality, openess and colours - conveying renewal and forward-looking approach - reflect the international scope of our businesses, our commitment to multiple energies and our ability to help the world progress and to foster interaction... bit wordy but nonetheless.. not a sun.
9. General Motors - GM... with a wee line.
10. ConocoPhilips - nice logo actually... no suns though.
so... out of the worlds TOP 10 companies... one of them has a Helios symbol (BP) and that was only acquired in or around 2000.... it was a shield before that... how did it get so goddammed powerful without a sun type logo i wonder?
Wal-Mart..... huge company... clearly!... and yet its new logo was only designed in 2008... before that it was a 5 pointed star... and before that... well for 12 years before that it was a HYPHEN... a plain old WAL-MART up until 1992 and that branding of a simple hyphen made it one of the top 5 companies in the world... huh? thats so weird.. how come?
I also have to re-iterate that the logos are the graphic design companies ideas which are then presented to a board of directors/marketing directorates... some agencies produce up to 4 or 5 idents for a new marketing re-branding... some might use a sun symbol.. some might use a hieroglyphic... some might use a tree... but its would be very rare... very rare.. for a company to TELL a graphic design agency that they must include a SUN symbol in a new logo that never previously did.. the Sun is life... its one of the most powerful and instantly recognisable symbols in the world... ergo.. it gets used a fucking shitload for logos... as i said before, which you clearly mocked as you are such a super duper clever clogs (which translated means "you read stuff online a lot"), graphic designers, marketing agencies etc... are very lazy... they re-invent the wheel a lot of the time... its hard not to... create a simple yet powerful logo that shows a company has strength, growth, power, trust, etc.... for me its either a tree... or the sun...
yet had no pyramid/sun logo during that time?... hmmmm .... weird how it got so powerful then?
it was making BILLIONS in the 80s... without a sun logo? i'm perturbed by this... do you mean it can become one of the worlds biggest companies without a sun/eye/pyramid logo.. and then it NEEDS a new logo to subvert our tiny minds ONCE it has already made billions???
http://cases.lippincottmercer.com/cgi-b ... iewcase?BD
You're just not looking hard enough. See, if you take those logos, fold them 3/4 ways along the horizontal line, hold them up to a light, then take a pen and draw a sun on them... voila! They ALL have the sun logo! It's a CONSPIRACY I tell you! They're all out to pollute our precious bodily fluids!
You are so funny.....
The Sun is a giver of life and without it, life as we know it would not be possible. Yeah... I know about those tiny crusteceans that live at the bottom of the Marianas Trench... I'm talking about us and lions and orange trees and crickets. The Sun has been worshipped by Man ever since we crept out of the shadows of the dinosaurs as rodents.
...
Now, as to modern day corporations, churches and secret societies... of course the Sun will show up as symbolism. It still remains the most dominant body in our sky. Maybe we don't openly worship the Sun anymore.. and take it for granted in our busy lives... but, it still remains, The Most Dominant celestrial body in our lives. That's why people put it on their logos. Hell, look at Japan... they got it on their Flag.
...
As for all that Free Mason stuff... I'm a bit skeptical.
Hail, Hail!!!
Don't forget about Colorado... Those conniving bastards are just lying in wait for for our country to screw up enough, then they are going to start taking surrounding states over....
at least that's what their flag tells me....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Colorado.svg
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
and just think... clock faces are circular... and the sun was obviously used to tell the time on the earliest sun-dials..
so not a complete waste of time.
The top four are ALL sun symbols.
It would be dishonest for you to suggest they are not.
If you can't understand that Exxon = Cross of Lorraine,
again, what can i say?
Cross of Lorraine,
ancient Hermetic symbol
closely relate to the Knights Templar
and to ancient royal bloodlines.
Someone is doing their damnedest to avoid seeing something that is VERY obvious.
If I opened it now would you not understand?