This lady does NOT have to answer to the public about how she's planning on supporting the kids or looking after them. I'm sure social services will be on top of it though and neighbours and everybody will want her to fuck up cos she's now high profile and everyone hates her. So if she puts a step wrong, it WILL be taken care of. Why don't ya just give her a chance.
never said she had to do any of those things. she's out in the media, we're ALLOWED to discuss what and whom we want, however we seee fit. i don't have to 'give her chance'......she already HAS her chance, like anyone else...my opinion of her actions have NO bearing on her whatsoever. i think she's a wee bit too bsuy with all her media interviews, and oh yes, 14 kids to care for, to be reading my posts on a pearl jam message board.
and sorry, i disagree...you take taxpayer money, you DO have to 'explain'...that's the nature of it, we don't all get handouts for no reason. i said many times over, i couldn't care less HOW big a family someone chooses to have, single parent or not......if they actually have the means to do so. and yes, i am allowed to hold this opinion, and express it.....whether you like it or not.
and helen........she's a selfish fuck imo. forget crazy, better? :roll:
you don't see it...cool. i don't care what you think, i don't know why you care what i think either.
next time you make a comment about someone you've never met, any form of opinion or judgement...i'll be sure to point it out. as i've said, we ALL do so, all the time. thank the media, and especially the internet, for giving us all access to so much information on so many people, places and things...that we can form opinions, rightly or wrongly. this is my impression of her from all i've seen and read. obviously, no, i've never met her...but from what i have seen and read, i certainly think she is utterly selfish.
next time you make a comment about someone you've never met, any form of opinion or judgement...i'll be sure to point it out.
oh I know... you usually do
anyway sorry I don't want you to repeat yourself AGAIN... I'm just baffled basically how people can form opinions and feel so strongly about somebody they never even heard of til about a week ago. That's all... I'll leave you to it.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I think it's rather easy to form an opinion about this situation and her actions surrounding it, because she has hired a publicist to help her use the media to tell her story. By doing so, she has invited us to make a judgment about her actions. God knows her publicist is doing everything she can to help her tell it in the most positive light possible, and it STILL comes off as an absolutely reprehensible and selfish thing to do.
next time you make a comment about someone you've never met, any form of opinion or judgement...i'll be sure to point it out.
oh I know... you usually do
anyway sorry I don't want you to repeat yourself AGAIN... I'm just baffled basically how people can form opinions and feel so strongly about somebody they never even heard of til about a week ago. That's all... I'll leave you to it.
how can you feel so strongly about white supremacy? how can we feel strongly about anyone or thing that we don't 'know'...?
seriously, i don't see why it's so difficult to understand. and btw - it's more about her ACTIONS....as her own mother says, i think it's unconscionable. i don't have to know someone to read about their actions and think they are wrong. kinda like white supremacy. i didn't know hitler, yet i think it's ok with you if i think he's a horrible person. and i know they are not at ALL related....just using that poor example since you just started a thread about it. you don't 'know' these people...and yet you can form judgements and opnions about them and what they do. it's the same to that extent.
ANYone who willingly brings in children they cannot provide for, i think is wrong. as i've said, she didn't accidently get pregnant, she went out of her way to have 6 embryos implanted in her uterus....while she has 6 children at home.....no means of support outside public assistance and her mother....so yea, i personally see that as VERY selfish, and really terrible towards these children. it's what i think. i don't ask you to agree, i don't argue you right to disagree...i am expressing my own pov. that's all.
I think it's rather easy to form an opinion about this situation and her actions surrounding it, because she has hired a publicist to help her use the media to tell her story. By doing so, she has invited us to make a judgment about her actions. God knows her publicist is doing everything she can to help her tell it in the most positive light possible, and it STILL comes off as an absolutely reprehensible and selfish thing to do.
thank you!
if it wasn't in the media - we'd not even KNOW!
if i hear about genocide on the other side of the world, caused by some person i've never heard of until last week...but hear of it today b/c of the media...am i not allowed to form an opnion on the person who caused it? if i read a news story about some neglectful mother leaving her children in a rat-infested apartment for a week , no food, etc...am i not allowed to form an opinion b/c i had no prior knowledge of her neglect and don't know her? i just don't *get* how all of a sudden, according to some anyway..,....w're not at all allowed to form any opinions/judgements on any thing or one, without firsthand personal knowledge. i AGREE firsthand knowledge is best, but none the less...opinions can be formed without it, and i think it's a-ok. it may not always prove to be accurate, but i think making assessments on information provided IS quite natural, human, instinctual.....and it is not 'wrong' per se.
thank you!
if it wasn't in the media - we'd not even KNOW!
Exactly. Yes, we would know that a mom had octuplets, because that made medical news. Yes, little bits of information would slip out, because that's the nature of our 24-hour, tabloid news culture. But, she could choose not to participate in the media circus. Instead, she is participating in it. Why? Well, according to her publicist, it's because she needs financial help and hopes people will share with her once they hear her story.
I understand that she didn't plan to have 8 more babies; that she just wanted one and maybe 2 at the most. If she can't support them all, she needs to put some of them up for adoption. That might be best for everyone in this situation.
I watched the Dateline interview with Ann Curry. I am thoroughly convinced she had plastic surgery...she looks NOTHING like she did when she started the birthing bonanza. She didn't even look like the same person. And, I truly think it will be 'discovered' that she has an obsession with 'being' Angelina Jolie.
Absolutely she looks like 2 different people !
Off topic....did you see your favorite show and the wedding ?? Waiting until Marriage to kiss !! WOW
of COURSE I did! LOL! And, yeah...they don't even allow dancing so I wasn't surprised about the no kissing rule.
This is the greatest band in the world -- Ben Harper
No point trying to talk reasonably with someone who thinks a single mother having 14 kids should raise the same level of anger as people who want to kill others cos of their race :roll: ... and there's no point trying to reason with someone who would call a retarded person 'a selfish fuck' for taking a pencil off a kid :shock:
Seriously I get that we all have opinions and all that bollox... but do you REALLY think about what you're saying???????????????? :shock: :roll:
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
We all form opinions about people we haven't met. I would venture to guess the majority of Ten Clubbers HAVE NOT met Ed, Jeff, Stone, Matt, Mike yet we all like them as good people, right...outside of their musicial abilities?
This is the greatest band in the world -- Ben Harper
No point trying to talk reasonably with someone who thinks a single mother having 14 kids should raise the same level of anger as people who want to kill others cos of their race :roll: ... and there's no point trying to reason with someone who would call a retarded person 'a selfish fuck' for taking a pencil off a kid :shock:
Seriously I get that we all have opinions and all that bollox... but do you REALLY think about what you're saying???????????????? :shock: :roll:
and do you actually READ what you quote? fully?
i said right in there it was a POOR comparsion, but used it anyway since you started a thread on that topic, b/c it proves the basic point of showing we all judge people we do not know to varying degrees by information we seek out or are provided. period. nothing more, nothing less.
also, i did not call a retarded person a selifsh fuck.....i don't consider someone mentally retarded as being 'crazy'....that again, your inference. and i retracted the 'crazy' after your comments in any case. apparently that's not satisfactoy for you tho. YOU are drawing these parallels, not me.
and if there is NO point to trying to talk reasonably with someone who holds my opinions, why do keep doing so? if you don't actually *get* my point, i obviously must not have expressed myself clearly enough and then i apologize. however, it sems to me that many others DO get and understand my points, whether they agree or disagree, so i don't think it's my words. you disagree, fine....but obviously you cannot even understand my pov at all. that's fine too.
so yes, i avctually DO think of what i am saying.
funny tho.......you took ZERO issue with dunky making the poor comparison of flag-waving and female circumcision. at least i from the get-go said it was a poor comparison...but used it for illustrative purposes only. we all judge without fully knowing people. that was IT.
We all form opinions about people we haven't met. I would venture to guess the majority of Ten Clubbers HAVE NOT met Ed, Jeff, Stone, Matt, Mike yet we all like them as good people, right...outside of their musicial abilities?
Nope! I like what I see of them... but I'd never go as far as guessing that they're actually good people... I know fuck all about them other than what they choose to divulge so I've reserved my judgment cos I DON'T KNOW! Who knows, maybe ed has a room in his house reserved for cock fighting
This woman hasn't hurt anybody... YET... and most likely she won't. And money is neither an excuse to bring kids into the world nor an excuse not to. If you're resourceful, you can feed 14 people on fuck all money... maybe she has a HUGE vegetable garden... point is NOBODY KNOWS.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
No point trying to talk reasonably with someone who thinks a single mother having 14 kids should raise the same level of anger as people who want to kill others cos of their race :roll: ... and there's no point trying to reason with someone who would call a retarded person 'a selfish fuck' for taking a pencil off a kid :shock:
Seriously I get that we all have opinions and all that bollox... but do you REALLY think about what you're saying???????????????? :shock: :roll:
'
hahahahahaha. I guess the facetiousness went right over your head.
HH, as always, you add a ray of sunshine into my day!
This is the greatest band in the world -- Ben Harper
We all form opinions about people we haven't met. I would venture to guess the majority of Ten Clubbers HAVE NOT met Ed, Jeff, Stone, Matt, Mike yet we all like them as good people, right...outside of their musicial abilities?
Nope! I like what I see of them... but I'd never go as far as guessing that they're actually good people... I know fuck all about them other than what they choose to divulge so I've reserved my judgment cos I DON'T KNOW! Who knows, maybe ed has a room in his house reserved for cock fighting
This woman hasn't hurt anybody... YET... and most likely she won't. And money is neither an excuse to bring kids into the world nor an excuse not to. If you're resourceful, you can feed 14 people on fuck all money... maybe she has a HUGE vegetable garden... point is NOBODY KNOWS.
and I think it is. there's the difference. funny, you're allowed to express your opinion...but apparently i am not. you are right and therefore i am wrong, and that's that eh? sorry if i disagree.
it's not a question of having 14 kids, over time, figuring out what you'll do along the way for money to support. it's choosing to purposely get implanted with 6 embryos, when you already have 6 children at home you cannot support. that is a fact. if she could, she'd not already be gtting public assistance, and a lot of it. i personally think it's wrong if someone is getting close to $500 food stamps and then $600 per child, for her first 3 children, assistance...so $1800 more a month in support...to THEN go out and decide, hey, i want even MORE babies i cannot support b/c the rest of the country can do it for me! you disagree...fine! but it is MY pov, and i am allowed to have it, and express it.
i said right in there it was a POOR comparsion, but used it anyway since you started a thread on that topic, b/c it proves the basic point of showing we all judge people we do not know to varying degrees by information we seek out or are provided. period. nothing more, nothing less.
also, i did not call a retarded person a selifsh fuck.....i don't consider someone mentally retarded as being 'crazy'....that again, your inference. and i retracted the 'crazy' after your comments in any case. apparently that's not satisfactoy for you tho. YOU are drawing these parallels, not me.
and if there is NO point to trying to talk reasonably with someone who holds my opinions, why do keep doing so? if you don't actually *get* my point, i obviously must not have expressed myself clearly enough and then i apologize. however, it sems to me that many others DO get and understand my points, whether they agree or disagree, so i don't think it's my words. you disagree, fine....but obviously you cannot even understand my pov at all. that's fine too.
so yes, i avctually DO think of what i am saying.
funny tho.......you took ZERO issue with dunky making the poor comparison of flag-waving and female circumcision. at least i from the get-go said it was a poor comparison...but used it for illustrative purposes only. we all judge without fully knowing people. that was IT.
Nope, I stopped reading when you compared it to white supremacy. And the thing about calling a retarded person a selfish fuck was in response to AmentsChick who CLEARLY answered yes to that question and who I also quoted.
Fact is, you've given your opinion a million times in this thread and I really really really don't care... I'm just glad you won't have any say in whether a mother gets to keep her kids or not.
I didn't notice you retracted the 'crazy' cos I don't check old posts AFTER I've replied to them... do you?
I keep replying cos YOU Keep replying to me... how can you ask someone 'why do you keep replying?' THAT'S A QUESTION... a question is usually looking for an answer :shock:
I did say dunk's was a poor comparison... but I guess you didn't see that... and this is an entirely different thread... are you still all up in arms over the whole flag waving thing?????? :shock:
I HAVE judged people... but it's something i make a conscious effort not to do. I might decide I don't like somebody for whatever reason... but unless they've fucked ME over, I don't call them names or draw conclusions about them.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
i said right in there it was a POOR comparsion, but used it anyway since you started a thread on that topic, b/c it proves the basic point of showing we all judge people we do not know to varying degrees by information we seek out or are provided. period. nothing more, nothing less.
also, i did not call a retarded person a selifsh fuck.....i don't consider someone mentally retarded as being 'crazy'....that again, your inference. and i retracted the 'crazy' after your comments in any case. apparently that's not satisfactoy for you tho. YOU are drawing these parallels, not me.
and if there is NO point to trying to talk reasonably with someone who holds my opinions, why do keep doing so? if you don't actually *get* my point, i obviously must not have expressed myself clearly enough and then i apologize. however, it sems to me that many others DO get and understand my points, whether they agree or disagree, so i don't think it's my words. you disagree, fine....but obviously you cannot even understand my pov at all. that's fine too.
so yes, i avctually DO think of what i am saying.
funny tho.......you took ZERO issue with dunky making the poor comparison of flag-waving and female circumcision. at least i from the get-go said it was a poor comparison...but used it for illustrative purposes only. we all judge without fully knowing people. that was IT.
Nope, I stopped reading when you compared it to white supremacy. And the thing about calling a retarded person a selfish fuck was in response to AmentsChick who CLEARLY answered yes to that question and who I also quoted.
Fact is, you've given your opinion a million times in this thread and I really really really don't care... I'm just glad you won't have any say in whether a mother gets to keep her kids or not.
I didn't notice you retracted the 'crazy' cos I don't check old posts AFTER I've replied to them... do you?
I keep replying cos YOU Keep replying to me... how can you ask someone 'why do you keep replying?' THAT'S A QUESTION... a question is usually looking for an answer :shock:
I did say dunk's was a poor comparison... but I guess you didn't see that... and this is an entirely different thread... are you still all up in arms over the whole flag waving thing?????? :shock:
I HAVE judged people... but it's something i make a conscious effort not to do. I might decide I don't like somebody for whatever reason... but unless they've fucked ME over, I don't call them names or draw conclusions about them.
hahahaha. Again, I was being facetious.
And as far as Oct Mom is concerned, Helen, can't we just agree to disagree?
This is the greatest band in the world -- Ben Harper
We all form opinions about people we haven't met. I would venture to guess the majority of Ten Clubbers HAVE NOT met Ed, Jeff, Stone, Matt, Mike yet we all like them as good people, right...outside of their musicial abilities?
Nope! I like what I see of them... but I'd never go as far as guessing that they're actually good people... I know fuck all about them other than what they choose to divulge so I've reserved my judgment cos I DON'T KNOW! Who knows, maybe ed has a room in his house reserved for cock fighting
This woman hasn't hurt anybody... YET... and most likely she won't. And money is neither an excuse to bring kids into the world nor an excuse not to. If you're resourceful, you can feed 14 people on fuck all money... maybe she has a HUGE vegetable garden... point is NOBODY KNOWS.
and I think it is. there's the difference. funny, you're allowed to express your opinion...but apparently i am not. you are right and therefore i am wrong, and that's that eh? sorry if i disagree.
it's not a question of having 14 kids, over time, figuring out what you'll do along the way for money to support. it's choosing to purposely get implanted with 6 embryos, when you already have 6 children at home you cannot support. that is a fact. if she could, she'd not already be gtting public assistance, and a lot of it. i personally think it's wrong if someone is getting close to $500 food stamps and then $600 per child, for her first 3 children, assistance...so $1800 more a month in support...to THEN go out and decide, hey, i want even MORE babies i cannot support b/c the rest of the country can do it for me! you disagree...fine! but it is MY pov, and i am allowed to have it, and express it.
If I reply to this you'll just ask why I keep replying... and there I've already done so YES D2D we ALL know you have a point of view and you will keep expressing it and for that reason, go on... have the last word cos I really really really don't care
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
i said right in there it was a POOR comparsion, but used it anyway since you started a thread on that topic, b/c it proves the basic point of showing we all judge people we do not know to varying degrees by information we seek out or are provided. period. nothing more, nothing less.
also, i did not call a retarded person a selifsh fuck.....i don't consider someone mentally retarded as being 'crazy'....that again, your inference. and i retracted the 'crazy' after your comments in any case. apparently that's not satisfactoy for you tho. YOU are drawing these parallels, not me.
and if there is NO point to trying to talk reasonably with someone who holds my opinions, why do keep doing so? if you don't actually *get* my point, i obviously must not have expressed myself clearly enough and then i apologize. however, it sems to me that many others DO get and understand my points, whether they agree or disagree, so i don't think it's my words. you disagree, fine....but obviously you cannot even understand my pov at all. that's fine too.
so yes, i avctually DO think of what i am saying.
funny tho.......you took ZERO issue with dunky making the poor comparison of flag-waving and female circumcision. at least i from the get-go said it was a poor comparison...but used it for illustrative purposes only. we all judge without fully knowing people. that was IT.
Nope, I stopped reading when you compared it to white supremacy. And the thing about calling a retarded person a selfish fuck was in response to AmentsChick who CLEARLY answered yes to that question and who I also quoted.
Fact is, you've given your opinion a million times in this thread and I really really really don't care... I'm just glad you won't have any say in whether a mother gets to keep her kids or not.
I didn't notice you retracted the 'crazy' cos I don't check old posts AFTER I've replied to them... do you?
I keep replying cos YOU Keep replying to me... how can you ask someone 'why do you keep replying?' THAT'S A QUESTION... a question is usually looking for an answer :shock:
I did say dunk's was a poor comparison... but I guess you didn't see that... and this is an entirely different thread... are you still all up in arms over the whole flag waving thing?????? :shock:
I HAVE judged people... but it's something i make a conscious effort not to do. I might decide I don't like somebody for whatever reason... but unless they've fucked ME over, I don't call them names or draw conclusions about them.
hahahaha. Again, I was being facetious.
And as far as Oct Mom is concerned, Helen, can't we just agree to disagree?
Absolutely *insert shakey hand smilie here*
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
This woman hasn't hurt anybody... YET... and most likely she won't. And money is neither an excuse to bring kids into the world nor an excuse not to. If you're resourceful, you can feed 14 people on fuck all money... maybe she has a HUGE vegetable garden... point is NOBODY KNOWS.
We do know that she was already receiving assistance (including food stamps) for the first six kids.
Also, I think one could make the argument that by bringing more children into the world when she couldn't support the first six, she *is* hurting her family.
If you can't afford to have a shitload of children, you shouldn't have them and expect other people to pitch in. Most people do consider their finances when planning their families. I would even give this lady a break if she became accidentally pregnant in this case. It is absolutely selfish to deliberately become pregnant when you can't afford the children you already have.
This woman hasn't hurt anybody... YET... and most likely she won't. And money is neither an excuse to bring kids into the world nor an excuse not to. If you're resourceful, you can feed 14 people on fuck all money... maybe she has a HUGE vegetable garden... point is NOBODY KNOWS.
We do know that she was already receiving assistance (including food stamps) for the first six kids.
Also, I think one could make the argument that by bringing more children into the world when she couldn't support the first six, she *is* hurting her family.
If you can't afford to have a shitload of children, you shouldn't have them and expect other people to pitch in. Most people do consider their finances when planning their families. I would even give this lady a break if she became accidentally pregnant in this case. It is absolutely selfish to deliberately become pregnant when you can't afford the children you already have.
In addition to $600/month PER CHILD in disability for 3 of the older 6 who have autisim and ADHD.
This is the greatest band in the world -- Ben Harper
i said right in there it was a POOR comparsion, but used it anyway since you started a thread on that topic, b/c it proves the basic point of showing we all judge people we do not know to varying degrees by information we seek out or are provided. period. nothing more, nothing less.
also, i did not call a retarded person a selifsh fuck.....i don't consider someone mentally retarded as being 'crazy'....that again, your inference. and i retracted the 'crazy' after your comments in any case. apparently that's not satisfactoy for you tho. YOU are drawing these parallels, not me.
and if there is NO point to trying to talk reasonably with someone who holds my opinions, why do keep doing so? if you don't actually *get* my point, i obviously must not have expressed myself clearly enough and then i apologize. however, it sems to me that many others DO get and understand my points, whether they agree or disagree, so i don't think it's my words. you disagree, fine....but obviously you cannot even understand my pov at all. that's fine too.
so yes, i avctually DO think of what i am saying.
funny tho.......you took ZERO issue with dunky making the poor comparison of flag-waving and female circumcision. at least i from the get-go said it was a poor comparison...but used it for illustrative purposes only. we all judge without fully knowing people. that was IT.
Nope, I stopped reading when you compared it to white supremacy. And the thing about calling a retarded person a selfish fuck was in response to AmentsChick who CLEARLY answered yes to that question and who I also quoted.
Fact is, you've given your opinion a million times in this thread and I really really really don't care... I'm just glad you won't have any say in whether a mother gets to keep her kids or not.
I didn't notice you retracted the 'crazy' cos I don't check old posts AFTER I've replied to them... do you?
I keep replying cos YOU Keep replying to me... how can you ask someone 'why do you keep replying?' THAT'S A QUESTION... a question is usually looking for an answer :shock:
I did say dunk's was a poor comparison... but I guess you didn't see that... and this is an entirely different thread... are you still all up in arms over the whole flag waving thing?????? :shock:
I HAVE judged people... but it's something i make a conscious effort not to do. I might decide I don't like somebody for whatever reason... but unless they've fucked ME over, I don't call them names or draw conclusions about them.
and btw - did i EVER once suggst these children be taken away from her? NO, i did not. i simply called her utterly selfish, and i think it was wrong.
i didn't remove it from my post...i actually retracted in a later post directed to you, in response to your very post ABOUT calling a retarded person selfish.
and i DID see you call it a poor comparison, but still said the point stood....that was my point. and no, i couldn't care less what you or dunky think on that topic..i was merely using it again, for illustrative purposes.
and your last statement is an outright lie. you judged white supremicists that you do not know, at all....and draw conclusions about them. personally, i say, rightly so! they put their opinions out on the internet and in the media for all to see, read, comment and form opinions! kinda like some mother who recently gave birth to octuplets!
btw - i too try not to judge people, overall, without getting to know them first..give the benefit of the doubt...etc. in this instance, ithe points i find wrong/offensive, i don't have to 'know' her at all! it's her ACTIONS, pure and simple, i think wrong. yes, i called her crazy.....oops! but me calling her selfish absolutely stands. her actions cearly illustrate a very selfish individual imo.
obviously many others *get* my point, even if they may disagree.
This woman hasn't hurt anybody... YET... and most likely she won't. And money is neither an excuse to bring kids into the world nor an excuse not to. If you're resourceful, you can feed 14 people on fuck all money... maybe she has a HUGE vegetable garden... point is NOBODY KNOWS.
We do know that she was already receiving assistance (including food stamps) for the first six kids.
Also, I think one could make the argument that by bringing more children into the world when she couldn't support the first six, she *is* hurting her family.
If you can't afford to have a shitload of children, you shouldn't have them and expect other people to pitch in. Most people do consider their finances when planning their families. I would even give this lady a break if she became accidentally pregnant in this case. It is absolutely selfish to deliberately become pregnant when you can't afford the children you already have.
exactly.
judging her actions and choices.....and it WAS her CHOICE to do all this.
how judgemental and wrong of me to actually think and say as much on a pearl jam message board.
If I reply to this you'll just ask why I keep replying... and there I've already done so YES D2D we ALL know you have a point of view and you will keep expressing it and for that reason, go on... have the last word cos I really really really don't care
no, i'd actually love to understand why you think it's a-ok for a mother to purposely do this simply b/c she wants to? you just say it's ok...but you never really give a reason why beyond it's her choice, money shouldn't come into it, etc. you truly believe that? you think the world owes you, me or her support? if i wanted to have 8 babies thru IVF, willingy chose to, and clearly had no means to support them, or my other children without others footing the bill...that's OK? that's not at all selfish, nor neglectful of the responsibilities i already have? b/c basically, that's all i am saying. now you may well believe that. i sure as shit don't.
you obviously do not understand my motivations at all for this conversation if you thinking i am looking for the last word, or as you first said i was 'jealous' of this woman, etc....ya know...judging me. we have very different povs, i just would like to gain understanding of how you come to see this from the angle you do when i clearly see it sooo differently.
I don't care if she has a garden the size of a football field
I don't care if she has a loom to make her own clothes
I don't care if she can home school them all through college
I don't care if she gives herself her manicures or injects her own lips
IT WAS NOT RIGHT.
(Last word)
So I'll just lie down and wait for the dream Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
no, i'd actually love to understand why you think it's a-ok for a mother to purposely do this simply b/c she wants to? you just say it's ok...but you never really give a reason why beyond it's her choice, money shouldn't come into it, etc. you truly believe that? you think the world owes you, me or her support? if i wanted to have 8 babies thru IVF, willingy chose to, and clearly had no means to support them, or my other children without others footing the bill...that's OK? that's not at all selfish, nor neglectful of the responsibilities i already have? b/c basically, that's all i am saying. now you may well believe that. i sure as shit don't.
you obviously do not understand my motivations at all for this conversation if you thinking i am looking for the last word, or as you first said i was 'jealous' of this woman, etc....ya know...judging me. we have very different povs, i just would like to gain understanding of how you come to see this from the angle you do when i clearly see it sooo differently.
ehh... when did I say it was a-ok???????????? :? I think having kids is the most UNnatural thing in the world and I would NEVER understand why anyone would have more than say 3... ANYONE! But I also understand some people like that kinda thing (kids) so I leave them to it. I also believe that if somebody wants kids, money SHOULDN'T factor into the decision in an ideal world. I think it's disgusting when people say they can't afford kids... not that THEY say it but that that's the state of the world today where money is the deciding factor in everything :twisted: you do NOT want to get me started on that.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
no, i'd actually love to understand why you think it's a-ok for a mother to purposely do this simply b/c she wants to? you just say it's ok...but you never really give a reason why beyond it's her choice, money shouldn't come into it, etc. you truly believe that? you think the world owes you, me or her support? if i wanted to have 8 babies thru IVF, willingy chose to, and clearly had no means to support them, or my other children without others footing the bill...that's OK? that's not at all selfish, nor neglectful of the responsibilities i already have? b/c basically, that's all i am saying. now you may well believe that. i sure as shit don't.
you obviously do not understand my motivations at all for this conversation if you thinking i am looking for the last word, or as you first said i was 'jealous' of this woman, etc....ya know...judging me. we have very different povs, i just would like to gain understanding of how you come to see this from the angle you do when i clearly see it sooo differently.
ehh... when did I say it was a-ok???????????? :? I think having kids is the most UNnatural thing in the world and I would NEVER understand why anyone would have more than say 3... ANYONE! But I also understand some people like that kinda thing (kids) so I leave them to it. I also believe that if somebody wants kids, money SHOULDN'T factor into the decision in an ideal world. I think it's disgusting when people say they can't afford kids... not that THEY say it but that that's the state of the world today where money is the deciding factor in everything :twisted: you do NOT want to get me started on that.
are you serious?
by continually going on and on about all the 'judging' going on in here...and saying it's her choice to make, where do we get off judging her, etc. THAT's where i got the 'idea' you think what she did was OK. i don't think i am alone there either.
i've alredy agreed...it's got NOTHING to do with what i would personally choose, nor having lots of kids, etc, etc...it's all about being able to CARE for and AFFORD the children you have.....and if you ARE accepting public assitance for the kids you already have then it's WRONG to purposly CHOSE to have more! we are not discussing an 'ideal world' here.....we're discussing reality.
sorry if somehow by your numerous counterpoints in this thread that i somehow got the impression you were defending her choices or actions at all, thus to me implying that what she did was OK. :roll:
and liz..i was so gonna let the thread die with your last post/last word b/c it is soooo perfect...but others posted, so .....
I don't care if she has a garden the size of a football field
I don't care if she has a loom to make her own clothes
I don't care if she can home school them all through college
I don't care if she gives herself her manicures or injects her own lips
well I've tried to leave several times but d2d keeps demanding more answers but I'm already seriously bored with this topic and i'm REALLY out this time
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Comments
never said she had to do any of those things. she's out in the media, we're ALLOWED to discuss what and whom we want, however we seee fit. i don't have to 'give her chance'......she already HAS her chance, like anyone else...my opinion of her actions have NO bearing on her whatsoever. i think she's a wee bit too bsuy with all her media interviews, and oh yes, 14 kids to care for, to be reading my posts on a pearl jam message board.
and sorry, i disagree...you take taxpayer money, you DO have to 'explain'...that's the nature of it, we don't all get handouts for no reason. i said many times over, i couldn't care less HOW big a family someone chooses to have, single parent or not......if they actually have the means to do so. and yes, i am allowed to hold this opinion, and express it.....whether you like it or not.
and helen........she's a selfish fuck imo. forget crazy, better? :roll:
you don't see it...cool. i don't care what you think, i don't know why you care what i think either.
next time you make a comment about someone you've never met, any form of opinion or judgement...i'll be sure to point it out.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
anyway sorry I don't want you to repeat yourself AGAIN... I'm just baffled basically how people can form opinions and feel so strongly about somebody they never even heard of til about a week ago. That's all... I'll leave you to it.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
how can you feel so strongly about white supremacy? how can we feel strongly about anyone or thing that we don't 'know'...?
seriously, i don't see why it's so difficult to understand. and btw - it's more about her ACTIONS....as her own mother says, i think it's unconscionable. i don't have to know someone to read about their actions and think they are wrong. kinda like white supremacy. i didn't know hitler, yet i think it's ok with you if i think he's a horrible person. and i know they are not at ALL related....just using that poor example since you just started a thread about it. you don't 'know' these people...and yet you can form judgements and opnions about them and what they do. it's the same to that extent.
ANYone who willingly brings in children they cannot provide for, i think is wrong. as i've said, she didn't accidently get pregnant, she went out of her way to have 6 embryos implanted in her uterus....while she has 6 children at home.....no means of support outside public assistance and her mother....so yea, i personally see that as VERY selfish, and really terrible towards these children. it's what i think. i don't ask you to agree, i don't argue you right to disagree...i am expressing my own pov. that's all.
thank you!
if it wasn't in the media - we'd not even KNOW!
if i hear about genocide on the other side of the world, caused by some person i've never heard of until last week...but hear of it today b/c of the media...am i not allowed to form an opnion on the person who caused it? if i read a news story about some neglectful mother leaving her children in a rat-infested apartment for a week , no food, etc...am i not allowed to form an opinion b/c i had no prior knowledge of her neglect and don't know her? i just don't *get* how all of a sudden, according to some anyway..,....w're not at all allowed to form any opinions/judgements on any thing or one, without firsthand personal knowledge. i AGREE firsthand knowledge is best, but none the less...opinions can be formed without it, and i think it's a-ok. it may not always prove to be accurate, but i think making assessments on information provided IS quite natural, human, instinctual.....and it is not 'wrong' per se.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Exactly. Yes, we would know that a mom had octuplets, because that made medical news. Yes, little bits of information would slip out, because that's the nature of our 24-hour, tabloid news culture. But, she could choose not to participate in the media circus. Instead, she is participating in it. Why? Well, according to her publicist, it's because she needs financial help and hopes people will share with her once they hear her story.
I understand that she didn't plan to have 8 more babies; that she just wanted one and maybe 2 at the most. If she can't support them all, she needs to put some of them up for adoption. That might be best for everyone in this situation.
of COURSE I did! LOL! And, yeah...they don't even allow dancing so I wasn't surprised about the no kissing rule.
now....
officially sucks.................
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
right so... that's enough of that.
No point trying to talk reasonably with someone who thinks a single mother having 14 kids should raise the same level of anger as people who want to kill others cos of their race :roll: ... and there's no point trying to reason with someone who would call a retarded person 'a selfish fuck' for taking a pencil off a kid :shock:
Seriously I get that we all have opinions and all that bollox... but do you REALLY think about what you're saying???????????????? :shock: :roll:
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
and do you actually READ what you quote? fully?
i said right in there it was a POOR comparsion, but used it anyway since you started a thread on that topic, b/c it proves the basic point of showing we all judge people we do not know to varying degrees by information we seek out or are provided. period. nothing more, nothing less.
also, i did not call a retarded person a selifsh fuck.....i don't consider someone mentally retarded as being 'crazy'....that again, your inference. and i retracted the 'crazy' after your comments in any case. apparently that's not satisfactoy for you tho. YOU are drawing these parallels, not me.
and if there is NO point to trying to talk reasonably with someone who holds my opinions, why do keep doing so? if you don't actually *get* my point, i obviously must not have expressed myself clearly enough and then i apologize. however, it sems to me that many others DO get and understand my points, whether they agree or disagree, so i don't think it's my words. you disagree, fine....but obviously you cannot even understand my pov at all. that's fine too.
so yes, i avctually DO think of what i am saying.
funny tho.......you took ZERO issue with dunky making the poor comparison of flag-waving and female circumcision.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
This woman hasn't hurt anybody... YET... and most likely she won't. And money is neither an excuse to bring kids into the world nor an excuse not to. If you're resourceful, you can feed 14 people on fuck all money... maybe she has a HUGE vegetable garden... point is NOBODY KNOWS.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
hahahahahaha. I guess the facetiousness went right over your head.
HH, as always, you add a ray of sunshine into my day!
and I think it is. there's the difference. funny, you're allowed to express your opinion...but apparently i am not. you are right and therefore i am wrong, and that's that eh? sorry if i disagree.
it's not a question of having 14 kids, over time, figuring out what you'll do along the way for money to support. it's choosing to purposely get implanted with 6 embryos, when you already have 6 children at home you cannot support. that is a fact. if she could, she'd not already be gtting public assistance, and a lot of it. i personally think it's wrong if someone is getting close to $500 food stamps and then $600 per child, for her first 3 children, assistance...so $1800 more a month in support...to THEN go out and decide, hey, i want even MORE babies i cannot support b/c the rest of the country can do it for me! you disagree...fine! but it is MY pov, and i am allowed to have it, and express it.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Fact is, you've given your opinion a million times in this thread and I really really really don't care... I'm just glad you won't have any say in whether a mother gets to keep her kids or not.
I didn't notice you retracted the 'crazy' cos I don't check old posts AFTER I've replied to them... do you?
I keep replying cos YOU Keep replying to me... how can you ask someone 'why do you keep replying?' THAT'S A QUESTION... a question is usually looking for an answer :shock:
I did say dunk's was a poor comparison... but I guess you didn't see that... and this is an entirely different thread... are you still all up in arms over the whole flag waving thing?????? :shock:
I HAVE judged people... but it's something i make a conscious effort not to do. I might decide I don't like somebody for whatever reason... but unless they've fucked ME over, I don't call them names or draw conclusions about them.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
And as far as Oct Mom is concerned, Helen, can't we just agree to disagree?
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
We do know that she was already receiving assistance (including food stamps) for the first six kids.
Also, I think one could make the argument that by bringing more children into the world when she couldn't support the first six, she *is* hurting her family.
If you can't afford to have a shitload of children, you shouldn't have them and expect other people to pitch in. Most people do consider their finances when planning their families. I would even give this lady a break if she became accidentally pregnant in this case. It is absolutely selfish to deliberately become pregnant when you can't afford the children you already have.
In addition to $600/month PER CHILD in disability for 3 of the older 6 who have autisim and ADHD.
and btw - did i EVER once suggst these children be taken away from her? NO, i did not. i simply called her utterly selfish, and i think it was wrong.
i didn't remove it from my post...i actually retracted in a later post directed to you, in response to your very post ABOUT calling a retarded person selfish.
and i DID see you call it a poor comparison, but still said the point stood....that was my point. and no, i couldn't care less what you or dunky think on that topic..i was merely using it again, for illustrative purposes.
and your last statement is an outright lie. you judged white supremicists that you do not know, at all....and draw conclusions about them. personally, i say, rightly so! they put their opinions out on the internet and in the media for all to see, read, comment and form opinions! kinda like some mother who recently gave birth to octuplets!
btw - i too try not to judge people, overall, without getting to know them first..give the benefit of the doubt...etc. in this instance, ithe points i find wrong/offensive, i don't have to 'know' her at all! it's her ACTIONS, pure and simple, i think wrong. yes, i called her crazy.....oops! but me calling her selfish absolutely stands. her actions cearly illustrate a very selfish individual imo.
obviously many others *get* my point, even if they may disagree.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
exactly.
judging her actions and choices.....and it WAS her CHOICE to do all this.
how judgemental and wrong of me to actually think and say as much on a pearl jam message board.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
no, i'd actually love to understand why you think it's a-ok for a mother to purposely do this simply b/c she wants to? you just say it's ok...but you never really give a reason why beyond it's her choice, money shouldn't come into it, etc. you truly believe that? you think the world owes you, me or her support? if i wanted to have 8 babies thru IVF, willingy chose to, and clearly had no means to support them, or my other children without others footing the bill...that's OK? that's not at all selfish, nor neglectful of the responsibilities i already have? b/c basically, that's all i am saying. now you may well believe that. i sure as shit don't.
you obviously do not understand my motivations at all for this conversation if you thinking i am looking for the last word, or as you first said i was 'jealous' of this woman, etc....ya know...judging me. we have very different povs, i just would like to gain understanding of how you come to see this from the angle you do when i clearly see it sooo differently.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I don't care if she has a garden the size of a football field
I don't care if she has a loom to make her own clothes
I don't care if she can home school them all through college
I don't care if she gives herself her manicures or injects her own lips
IT WAS NOT RIGHT.
(Last word)
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
are you serious?
by continually going on and on about all the 'judging' going on in here...and saying it's her choice to make, where do we get off judging her, etc. THAT's where i got the 'idea' you think what she did was OK. i don't think i am alone there either.
i've alredy agreed...it's got NOTHING to do with what i would personally choose, nor having lots of kids, etc, etc...it's all about being able to CARE for and AFFORD the children you have.....and if you ARE accepting public assitance for the kids you already have then it's WRONG to purposly CHOSE to have more! we are not discussing an 'ideal world' here.....we're discussing reality.
sorry if somehow by your numerous counterpoints in this thread that i somehow got the impression you were defending her choices or actions at all, thus to me implying that what she did was OK. :roll:
and liz..i was so gonna let the thread die with your last post/last word b/c it is soooo perfect...but others posted, so .....
GREAT, GREAT POST!
love it.
so well said.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
OUCH!!!!
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you